0:00:14
Unknown_05:  here and dark side phil yo hello whoa this is wow this is surreal folks whoever thought it could happen josh moon and dark side phil on the same stream i don't know which of you wants to open up and kind of give your thoughts on this


Unknown_03:  Does anybody have a preference? I mean, for, for me, like, first of all, like you said, who would have thought this ever would have happened?


Unknown_01: Because until like early August, I was like the whipping boy of the internet. No one cared about what I thought. No one wanted to hear my opinion on anything. And now it's like, people actually would like to see me have a conversation with Josh and talk about the whole Kiwi farms thing. So it's like, things are changing so quickly right now. And yeah,


Unknown_01:  This is like, for me, I just wanna preface this, all right, before we get started.


0:01:08
Unknown_01:  I want to have a real conversation with you, Josh, because I think you know why I want to have a conversation with you in regards to Kiwi Farms. But I don't want this to be like an attack session. I want us to have a real conversation about how things are going and possibly the future, because things are turning around for me right now in a very positive way. And this is like a door opening. You know what I'm saying? Like it's public opinion about me is changing. And now would be the time.  to have civil conversations with people who maybe I never was able to reach out to and talk with before. Like I wouldn't even know how I ever would have even gotten in contact with you until I started hanging out with these guys. And now look at all this stuff that's going on. So. All right. Well, I don't want this. I'm not going to be attacking Josh or anything like that, but we have things to discuss.


0:01:46
Unknown_03: All right, Josh. Well, do you want to open up with your thoughts on this whole thing, talking to Phil and stuff like that?


Unknown_00:  I think everybody, I would actually kind of disagree that only recently people have wanted to speak with you. I think that you've not wanted to speak with people for quite a while. For instance, I know that Mike Klum was trying to interview you for a documentary and you backed out of that just this year. So I think people have always been kind of receptive to hearing what you have to say. And I think that you've been kind of a recluse.


0:02:17
Unknown_01:  The thing is, the things that people wanted to talk to me about are not things that are anyone's business, nor do I want to talk about. They want to talk about my personal finances. They want to talk about what I have in the house. They want to talk about my mobile game habits. They want to talk about my bankruptcy. I don't want to talk about that stuff. I want to talk about games. I want to talk about having fun, chilling, you know, just having a conversation, doing normal things that people do on the internet.  that apparently I'm not allowed to do because I was the focus of the internet's ire for the greater part of a decade. Now, all of a sudden I appear on Kino Casino and it's like night and day. Everyone likes me now. Everyone wants to hang out with me. Everyone wants to talk, see new content from me. It feels very different. You know what I mean? Like the Michael documentary was going to have a lot of toxic stuff. I'll go ahead. Yeah.


0:02:54
Unknown_00: Well, I was going to ask, do you know, I have an answer for this, but do you know what has changed?


Unknown_00:  Would you like to take a guess at what I'm thinking?


Unknown_01: I would say public perception just because, I don't know, because someone gave me a chance. And I think that's what it is. No one ever gave me a chance to be humanized. Instead, it was easy to beat up on Phil because he was the small content creator who everyone likes to make fun of. But now that people gave me a chance to see me in a different environment rather than just my own stream, things have changed.


0:03:28
Unknown_00:  I think that part of it is that I've watched a little bit of you and the Keno Casino, and a lot of what they're doing is showing you other people and you're reacting in the same way that detractors would. And it's very funny. It's very funny hearing you rip on Rakeda and get a first impression reaction to things that he's done because it's like you don't know anything about him, but you're pretty close to the mark in regards to that.


0:04:10
Unknown_00:  People are receptive because, you know, you're kind of taking shots at people and they think that's really funny.


Unknown_01: Yeah.


Unknown_01: Yeah. And, you know, thanks, you guys, Kino Casino, for giving me that opportunity. Because, again, the people who wanted to interview me previously are like, oh, we'll have you on, but we're just going to be, you know, taking shots at you constantly. Let's talk about your finances and shit. Yeah.


Unknown_04:  Side-scrollers, right? That was side-scrollers?


Unknown_01: Exactly. When they contacted me, it was supposed to be, oh, just be a guest on our show like anyone else. But then they turned it into this three-ring circus interview that I have to be interrogated for five, six hours before I even qualify for the chance to be a real guest. And then they canceled the chance for me to be a real guest after the interview when they saw how much money they were making.


0:04:45
Unknown_03: Right.


Unknown_00: How much money they were making from what?


Unknown_01:  from that interview because that interview that they did with me was literally a hundred percent negative stuff. I thought if they're going to do an interview, that's fair, right? You're going to have some positivity to it. Ask me about things over the years that are good. Ask me about my fan base, why people like me, you know, stuff like that. But instead it was just like, they just talked directly to my detractors had every negative question lined up.  Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. And then the day after the show, when they said they were going to be doing a decompression session where they're just going to play like Mario Kart or something, it was a shooting gallery against me and I wasn't there to defend myself. It was them talking to my detractors the entire stream, receiving donations and contributions to make fun of me. They were literally laughing with negative memes about me and making bank. And that's not what that interview was supposed to be.  You know, take a look at the difference between that interview and the appearance on Keno Casino. I think you'll see night and day how I was mistreated a year ago and how now things have changed because I was given a chance. You got thoughts on that, Josh?


0:05:29
Unknown_00:  Well, would you agree that an interview should be balanced to include sort of responses to criticisms and concerns and just like general prying? Because a lot of you're right. A lot of your drama is pretty personal. But I think that a lot of people, if they try to talk about you at all, that's what comes up. So would it be fair to say that an interviewer should ask questions about like the bankruptcy and stuff?


0:06:07
Unknown_01:  Of course. And we had talked about it before the interview. He said he was going to bring up topics like that. And I said, yeah, we can absolutely talk about that stuff. What was not discussed is that the day after they were going to change their schedule to literally do a dump on DSP stream for profits. Because when you do a fair and balanced interview, OK, you might not even like like the person you're interviewing. You may not even believe the answers they've given you.  But in order to have it be a fair and balanced interview, you cannot then immediately present a one-sided argument after the interview is over. What's supposed to happen is the audience is supposed to watch that interview and judge for themselves. Is it believable? Is it not? Do I believe his answers? Do I not?  What they did is they literally did the interview, and the next piece of content they made was, we don't believe anything Phil said. Let's dump on him all day. So immediately the entire audience says, oh, yeah, Phil's a scumbag. Phil's a piece of shit. It's great, you know? And they did it for personal gain. If they weren't receiving all those donos from all of my detractors, they never would have done that. In fact, it might have gone the other way, and they probably would have spun it the other way positive. Whatever was good for them, that's how they handled it.


0:07:20
Unknown_03:  Well, we'll let Josh respond to that, and then we'll move on from the side scrollers thing, because I think at this point, it's neither here nor there. It was over a year ago. Anything to that, Josh, before we move on?


Unknown_00:  yeah i mean i i'm not a hundred percent familiar i'm not sure if there was something that was said that you said after the interview between those two streams or if that was just like they did stream a and then stream b um because i vaguely remember that they were responding to something that you had said after that first stream but when you are live streaming you know if people are giving you super chats and feeding you information  You know, that's just what the conversation was going to be about, even if he didn't intend for it to be that way. And it's not necessarily like a profit motive, more or less. It is just like that's what is there to engage with as a broadcaster.


0:07:59
Unknown_03:  I think an interesting place to start would just be to ask you, Josh, generally what your feeling has been on Phil's detractors and how Phil's detractors have interacted with you and the Kiwi Farms. How have you felt about that, Josh? What are your thoughts on that?


Unknown_00:  Well, definitely, I think DSP, as a point of fascination, was already kind of behind by the time that the Kiwi Farms was kind of broadening out from just Christian. The glory days of all those Street Fighter clips where Phil is genuinely angry and screaming about the online lag and stuff, I think that stuff was already kind of in the past. Because even...  Like Phil has like six years plus history before the Quickie forums was even a thing. So he had been around for a while. And by the time that the forum was up and running, I think Phil just got, you know, everyone gets older. I'm 30 now. I know what it's like to get older and just kind of not be so rambunctious. But I think Phil just kind of like aged out of that and calmed down. But he still carried this contingent of just like really difficult people that  and when i say this i have to be careful because if i try and lump the forum into this people get angry at me but there is like a genuinely unhinged contingent of people who hate phil and it's a complete enigma to me and they try to justify it and i just i just don't get it well you don't think that phil should die josh no i don't unfortunately do you think that phil should be allowed to make money online josh  I do. And that's actually one of the first things that was a point of contention between me and certain people, certain elements in his in his hate fandom is that they went after him for like his monetization schemes. And that was right when the Kiwi Farms was just starting to get deplatformed from from payment processors. And it really angered me to see like, you know, you're doing to this guy what is happening to me.  And I wouldn't support it for myself, obviously, and I don't support it for him. And then they would counter that by saying, well, he's like pignitized his viewers and he's extracting money from them from lies. And it's like, well, you know, if you give DSP money and he says, you know, I need money and you give the money to him, you don't really then get to decide, well, he should only spend it on XYZ. That's not how it works.


0:10:25
Unknown_03: Yeah.


Unknown_03:  I think everybody here is in agreement on that, right? Like, Phil's money is his money. He can do whatever he wants. If he chooses to spend it on WWE champions, if he chooses to spend it on Jin, or if he chooses to spend it on investments.


Unknown_04: Weed or fucking whatever the fuck.


Unknown_03: It's not really our business, right? Like, I don't really get it.


Unknown_00: Yeah, would you agree with that, Phil? That if people give you money, it's like yours to spend, and it's not really any other business after that?


0:11:06
Unknown_00:  The line of argument that DSP is disingenuous because I'm on a stream and I'll be like, well, if I don't raise money on this stream, I can't buy groceries later in the week and shit like that.


Unknown_01: Has that ever happened on my streams? Yes. I have said shit like that. I'm here to be honest with you guys. I'm fessing up to everything. There's been times where... I'm not talking about this week. I'm talking about in the past.  and the reason that stuff like that happened is because i went through a really bad financial time i was going through a bankruptcy i couldn't pay for anything this was over four years ago and there were literally weeks where like if i didn't raise a certain amount via tips that week i actually would not have been able to pay a certain bill or actually do things like that get the groceries or whatever so should i say that kind of shit on my streams no of course i can't but  human and i was desperate and i needed to say and do things in order to raise the money i needed to get by and the good news is i'm not in that position anymore and in the last four and a half years i've stopped doing those kind of streams you're not going to see me say hey we're doing a thousand dollar goal today and if we hit it some crazy thing's going to happen but i nearly need this money i don't do that anymore i canceled all those events that i used to do i don't even do like  goal-based streams anymore. We're like, we're going to raise a certain amount of members and then I'll do a marathon. I'll just do the marathon to have fun with my viewers. I don't have anything based on that stuff anymore. But the problem is with my detractors, they're living in the past. To them, everything is black and white. So the fact that I did stuff like that in the past, but I've changed for the better, doesn't matter. I did it. I'm guilty of it forever. So to them, I'm still that guy sitting here every day saying, oh, please give me some donations so I can buy groceries.  That's the issue I think they have with me, but it's not valid anymore. That's not the modern DSP, but that then again wouldn't fuel their content. I think Josh has said something to the effect of, honestly, they're just jealous that you're able to make money online.


0:12:56
Unknown_03: Is that a fair assessment of what you said, Josh? And do you want to kind of respond to what Phil was saying there as well?


Unknown_00:  Yeah. Yeah. I'll ask that first because you brought it up.


Unknown_00: The I made the point that I think the most I think that to be clear, there's a stratification in terms of people who don't like you. There are people who just kind of like observe and who have good humor about it.  But then there are people who I believe are like genuinely low intelligence, like mentally stunted people. And they're just they are genuinely jealous in a way that you make enough money off of playing video games that they wish they could do. And I think that that stirs on a lot of resentment from the absolute worst of your hate fandom. Would you agree with that, that there are people like that?


0:13:31
Unknown_01:  The thing is, I don't know these people, right? But I mean, you just have to observe. You observe patterns of behavior. I mean, this guy, Doody, in the last three days has made like over 20 videos about me that he monetized. And it's like 20 videos about one person in three days. Something is going on there. That's not normal behavior.  That's a motivated behavior. Something is going on in that man's mind. Either he genuinely hates me or there's something else happening there that you would make that much negative content about someone in a short period of time. I don't know if these people really have issues in their minds. If they just have a grudge, who knows? Maybe they just saw the dollar signs behind it. And oh, wow, I can literally beat up on this guy so much. And now we're making so much money on it. But what's happening now slowly is the camera's turning back towards these people. And they're like, oops.  We, you know, our skeletons are rolling out of the closet and and things are changing for the better. But no, I agree with you. Normal people don't act like one of these detractors. They don't sit there and make the entire existence of their being to hate on someone, to interject into someone's life. It's not like, oh, they made fun of me because I did something stupid on stream today. No, it's like my wife is ugly. In fact, he's doing this shit behind the scenes. It's all personal stuff.


0:14:46
Unknown_03:  well it goes beyond even just making fun of you right like where it really starts to get bothersome from people is you know for instance we have the bank leaks where they're hacking your bank account and yeah and we have like the situation with the comcast guy and stuff like this uh go ahead josh go ahead do you want to redirect to something else


0:15:34
Unknown_00:  yeah i i wanted to ask because i saw you know when i people heard that i was going to be talking to you you know i got a lot of people um who were either angry some people were mildly amused but then a lot of people were trying to like give me information and one thing i i just i don't i want your opinion on this like how you feel about this um twitch had published in 2020


Unknown_00:  a infograph showing the loyalist fans of any streamer and you were number one, um, per, I think per subscriber or per tipper, you got like $36 and like the average on Twitch is like four or five. And I'm wondering how you feel about that. Like is, is, is having such a high return per subscriber or something that, um, like just how do you feel about that?


Unknown_00:  Well, first of all, I heard that report, but I didn't hear it from Twitch.


0:16:25
Unknown_01: So another YouTuber, I guess, had like done a react to it or something. And of course, you've got to question the validity of the data because I don't know what data they're going off of. Is it just Super Chats? Is it the paid subscriptions?


Unknown_01: Obviously, that doesn't factor in other things outside of Twitch like tips and stuff like that.  um and also what year was that when you said it was a 2020 data or was the report in 2020 and reporting on a previous year it was it was either i think i think it was 2020 or 2021 i think it was data for that year because likely the reason that that report was so overinflated is because i was going through my bankruptcy and that was the year when a lot of people knew that and they came out and were actually like overly supportive i got a lot of extra support that year because of that um  I'm not saying that the report was inaccurate In any way, shape, or form But I think Here's the weird thing, you're right I'm not a giant guy I don't get 2,000, 3,000 Viewers on a stream I barely get 1,000 views on a video that I upload to my channel Yet I'm still able To make a living doing what I'm doing  And I do pretty good for myself How is that possible? Because I've been in the game for 16 years Because I have notoriety for various different reasons Some good, some very bad But my fanbase has been along for this ride with me They've seen the ups and downs They like me as a person as well as a content creator They want me to succeed  When they see that everyone is against me, but I still persevere, they see it as an inspiration to them. And they've told me, I get stories all the time from my viewers. You inspire me because you don't give up with all the hate and the shit that people throw at you. You're still doing it every day. I would have quit years ago, but I'm not going to quit. I'm going to keep going. I'm the kind of guy that's motivated by adversity. So that's why these people like me for who I am. They're going to support me no matter what. It doesn't matter if I'm streaming on Twitch, which I'm not anymore.  Now I'm on YouTube. It doesn't matter if I move to kick or whatever. I have a core group of very supportive people who want to see me succeed no matter where I go and no matter what these detractors say about me.


0:17:57
Unknown_00:  and would you say that that makes you you're grateful are you like absolutely i am the luckiest dude on this fucking planet in my opinion like dude i started on youtube at a time when i was incredibly lucky to ever get seen i blew up at the right time i stayed pertinent for bad reasons instead of good and now here i am in 2024 and i'm finally for the first time in 10 years getting a turnaround


0:18:46
Unknown_01:  I am the luckiest fucking dude. I am so grateful to my core audience who kept me going for that crazy long time when it was just hate, hate, hate against me. I owe everything to them. My whole setup have this stuff. I worked with people to design or they donated it.  to me you know all this shit is all help for my audience i am a the product of a community of people working together to make something awesome for each other as opposed to just i'm just the guy out here to put out content to print money that's that's never what it's been about i've even said if i were to become like overnight wealthy what if i won the lotto i would still stream i wouldn't stream as much as i do but i would still stream because i love it i love my community i'm doing it for the love of it as well as making a living it's not just a job for me and i was that computer that you got um was that was that a viewer gift


0:19:32
Unknown_00:  the the weird triangle computer yeah um weird triangle computer yeah it's like an ice cube or a mini fridge or something i said it looks like a prop from a video game that you like pull out of the ground like a sci-fi thing it does it's crazy yeah but no that's again 100 donated that was before i started doing much better for myself this month by the way that was before i appeared on kino casino and everything


Unknown_01:  And again, now I'm a PC gamer and that's because of the, the, the people who like me and want to see me succeed. It's amazing. You know?


Unknown_00: Yeah. Um, I watched that video of you setting that up and, um, I don't know, it was, it was pretty, it was pretty difficult for me cause you were, you were so frustrated and I felt like you were, you were kind of angry that people like gave you the computer and said like, Hey, set this up. You know what I mean? Yeah.


Unknown_01:  No, I, you know, when I get in a way, if I get very, very frustrated over something, usually that comes out when I play Street Fighter. If I'm playing Street Fighter and there's lag and I lose to a fucking guy who I know I should have beaten, I get so frustrated. But in that case, here's the thing. We've been trying to do this for years to get me a gaming PC, get it set up. And of course, out of the box, there's issues. It's like, Jesus, of course, I can't just set this thing up normally and have a nice stream for my viewers. It's got to be the most frustrating fucking thing.  But I get, you know, I get just like everyone. I get too emotional. I get heated. And I say dumb shit. But the next day, which you probably don't know, Josh, I publicly apologized for it on my podcast. First thing next day, I actually felt really bad about it after having calmed down overnight. And everyone forgave me for it because they're like, that's Phil when he's heated. We see him doing that when he's frustrated with Street Fighter. We understand it carried over to that night, you know. But you're right. I like being called out.  When I do things like that because when I realize after the fact, oh, shit, I fucked up, that's going to make me a better person. That's the kind of stuff I don't mind being criticized on. But when you got detractor channels that are just complete libelous bullshit every day, stuff that's not even close to being true, that's where it's like really frustrating because I can't stop.


0:21:04
Unknown_00: Let me interrupt you because this was requested of me.


Unknown_00:  There is something called defamation. If you hurt somebody's reputation, it's called defamation. If it's written, it's libel. If it's spoken, it's slander. But both libel and slander are both forms of defamation. Someone begged me to correct you on this because it bothered them so much.


0:21:37
Unknown_01:  Oh, well, that's because – well, I'm saying liable because I actually reacted to a video yesterday on my React show where Cardi B sued that YouTuber who was a commentary YouTuber and just kept talking shit about her for years and years, and Cardi B sued her for liable in court and won a $4 million ruling. So I think technically, if anything were ever to go to court, it would be for liable, but I don't know.


0:22:10
Unknown_00: It would be for defamation unless it's written. If someone writes a tweet about you that says something –  If only we had Lord Baldo here to... So, guys, do you mind if I ask Josh a few questions?


Unknown_01: Go ahead.


Unknown_04: One second. Thank you for the 20 subs and 10 subbacks for 10 subs. Big support.


Unknown_03: Let's get some subs for Josh.


Unknown_04: Great conversation so far. I hope you're enjoying this, everyone. Go ahead, Phil.


Unknown_01:  Okay. So Josh, to preface this, I want you to understand something. I know absolutely nothing about you. Okay. I really don't. I don't.


0:22:44
Unknown_01:  go outside of my own realm of existence, my streams and my content to find out about people who are involved in the drama sphere around me. I try to stay out of it. I really, really do. And obviously, we know you're the owner and operator of Kiwi Farms. I know from personal experience of people sending me over there saying, oh, do you know this is on there about you? This is on there about your family. This is on it. That's how I know of your website. What I like to do is have a civil conversation with you now a little bit about  Where did Kiwi Farms come from? Like, what was your original idea for the site? Why did you set it up? And how did that all start? Because obviously I would think that today, a lot of the stuff that's on there is not what your original intention was, unless I'm mistaken. So I'd like to hear it straight from the source. Why did you set up Kiwi Farms originally?


0:23:16
Unknown_00: What was the idea?  Well, you're completely free to ask me any question that you'd like. As far as where the forum comes from, it was originally specifically dedicated to Christian Weston Chandler. And in 2014, we branched out to this broad category of people that you would know as locals. And I think even now it's even broader. It's basically anyone online who is kind of like a celebrity, communities online. As long as people want to talk about them, there's a space for it on the forum.


0:23:53
Unknown_01:  So you're saying that when it was – by the way, what year did you start the website originally?


Unknown_00: It was not started by me. It was originally a companion forum to a website called the Quickie, which was a wiki based off Encyclopedia Dramatica specifically for Chris Chan. The forum was a companion discussion forum for it. And in 2013, I took over as administrator, and I've been administrator ever since.


0:24:31
Unknown_01: And you do own and operate the site. You own it. You have control of it. I am the top dog.


Unknown_01:  Okay, very good. So when you branched off and made it its own thing, the idea was to have a place for free and open conversation about Chris Chan particularly, but then you saw that there was actually a desire to have another place for other discussion of other people, and that's how it kind of extrapolated and expanded into what it is today? Correct.


Unknown_01:  okay um so i'm curious because i think we've all heard stories or we've even been affected the guys from keno casino here i'm sure can also chime in we all have been affected by things that have been put on that website we've been doxed we've had information leaked you know stuff on there and i guess my for to to start the real conversation here at what point  Did you see that perhaps people were not doing things in the best judgment? Now, I know there's two different discussions. There's a legal realm and there's a morality realm, right? There's the letter of the law and the spirit of the law and all of that. And we could talk about that all day. But the stuff that's been put on your website has been very harmful to many different people. I think we can agree there. Now, from what I'm to understand, you are against that, correct? You don't want people putting harmful information on that site?  Um, I, that's a very broad question and I'm not answering this in a legal sense.


0:25:59
Unknown_00: I'm trying to be very specific about what I'm saying. Um, if in general, um, if harm comes from information, for instance, there was somebody who, um, had a thread who worked at a Walmart and who posted pictures of themselves online. Um, I'll just say behaving inappropriately at their job at Walmart.  These pictures made it onto the forum, and he was literally walked into the boss's office in Walmart, and they showed him his Kiwi Farms thread in these pictures he had posted online, and he was fired.


0:26:33
Unknown_00:  It's ostensibly harm that arose because of information on the forum. But can you really say, well, that shouldn't have happened?


Unknown_00: Or even that that's a consequence of the Kiwi farms? Or is that a consequence of his own actions? If harm comes from information, almost always it was inevitable, regardless of if it was on the forum or if it was on Twitter or whatever website.  Now, that's one thing, and I am perfectly okay with that. If harm comes about as a result of – as a natural consequence of something that has already happened, not caused or instigated by users on the forum, there are no quandaries about that in regards to the law or to morality.


0:27:14
Unknown_00: Now, as far as people on the forum instigating harm, causing harm, I don't like that.


Unknown_01: Back to Bill.


Unknown_01:  So, here's a question.


Unknown_01: How do you determine on your forums what's being posted up is too far or is acceptable? Do you have like a moderation team who actually takes care of that? Do you ever review cases? Is there a rule set that everyone has to abide by? Because I'll be honest, I've checked out my section of your forums.  And I see threads like, oh, Phil's playing WWE champions again. Who gives a shit? I'd let him post to the fucking end of the world about that. But then I'll see a thread like, oh, here's actual information about like a distant family member of Phil's who has absolutely no association with him whatsoever. And here's the docs. And it's like, what? Like, what would that be there for? What the hell does that have to do with anything? So is there an actual criteria and a moderation methodology you have? Like, how do you make sure that what's on your site is acceptable or not?


0:27:50
Unknown_00:  Generally speaking, any public information can be posted. One thing that we would not permit is somebody to post public information and then even imply, like, I hope he gets what he deserves. I hope it would be funny. It would be so funny if pizza showed up to his house, like anything that sort of implies or directly instigates any kind of.  action is not acceptable but as far as like you know facebook accounts and stuff um as long as it's relevant to the topic there is um very little that will be done almost uh almost always the the actions that are taken are almost the exception to the rule


0:28:29
Unknown_01:  And who would take the action? Do you have mods in place for each forum that are specific to the forum?


Unknown_00: Yes. Is there a general rule set that they have to follow? There's three tiers. There's board-level moderators, and that's what I prefer now. If I make global moderators, I realize that they burn out much quicker. So usually I give a mod one or two areas of the site that's like their home, and they're very active there. There's a couple global mods who I trust very well, who have been around for, in one case, since before I've ran the forum. Yeah.  And then there's me and I am a very active user on the forum and I'm very active in moderation day to day.


0:29:05
Unknown_01: And are your moderators kind of able to just judge for themselves what goes and what doesn't? Because I've heard rumors or not rumors, but I've heard stories that like the moderators in my forum weren't doing a good job and you shit canned a bunch of them because they literally were not doing their job per your standard. And that's why a lot of the information that was there that was, I guess, deemed harmful was allowed for a while. Is that is that true?


0:29:43
Unknown_00:  So you're referencing something. I don't remember how long ago this was. It was either a couple of months ago or last year.


Unknown_00: I went into the board and I was upset about something. And if I can remember, I'll tell you what it was. But I was doing this happens every couple of years. I'm not like your board is one of the least frequent boards I go to. And generally what happens is I walk in and I have a reason to something's happened and it requires my attention.  And I just started yelling at people. And this is one of the most difficult areas to deal with because people get very defensive and it becomes a big deal. And in this case, it was a pretty large ordeal. Like 20 people quit the site.


0:30:19
Unknown_00: I demodded one of the mods because he actually ran one of your detractor channels. And it was monetized. And I thought, you know, that's a conflict of interest. I don't want like...  you to have a monetized channel and also be a moderator. That's kind of, that's never, never been a thing that we've had before on the site. And I didn't even know about it. Um, and then the other mod for the board walked out, um, because he was upset and they tried to form their own like splinter site to the Kiwi farms. And it hasn't really had any traction to it. Um, so I, I wish I could remember what it, what it was. Someone tagged you after the cat stream. So that somebody says, I forget, um,  Something happened. There was a stream with Cat on it, and it caused a problem. And I remember that I made fun of people, and then it snowballed into a bunch of people leaving.


0:30:53
Unknown_00: It's one of the areas of the site I don't have a good repertoire with my own users in. They don't like me there. They make it very well known.


Unknown_00: And it's difficult to get anything done with them.


0:31:28
Unknown_00:  But right now it's, sorry, just to close this out. There's one guy, sorry, I feel bad. I don't remember his name right now off the top of my head, but he's from another area of the site and I trust him and he's doing a pretty good job as a moderator. He's only a moderator of that board.


Unknown_01:  Okay, so following up on what you just said. So you have a section of the site. There's a moderator that's a known detractor of mine. You agree that that section of the site isn't up to your standards, right?


Unknown_01: Why would you keep that section of the site open? Why is it not? Well, if it's not up to standards of the site, things are going bad. Look, it's actually bad intentions. The guy who was in charge is actually a hater of Phil. He's making money on this. Why would you not just say...  All right, enough. You guys didn't behave. You had fun, but this is why we can't have good things, right? And you take it away from them so that way they have to move on. Why leave that section of the site open when you know that there's malicious intent? And this is not me accusing you of anything. I just want an honest answer. I'm curious.


0:32:02
Unknown_00: I got you. I got you. Don't worry. I would like to answer that question with a question.


0:32:36
Unknown_00: In your mind, let's just say that I went to the add-in panel right now and said I could do this, and I deleted the dark side fill board.


Unknown_03: Sorry.


Unknown_00:  You're breaking up a bit, Josh.


Unknown_03: Am I breaking up?


Unknown_00: Why don't you start that statement again? Am I breaking up?


Unknown_03: You're good now, I think. You're good now.


Unknown_00: You're good now. Okay. Answer a question with a question, the least interesting thing. But in your mind, if I went to the admin panel right now and I deleted the dark side fill board, which I'm completely able to do.  what do you think happens? Can you give me like a, like a T plus 10 seconds, 60 seconds, one day, like what happens? There's hundreds of users on that section of the site. So what happens in your mind? What do you, how do you imagine that playing out?


0:33:13
Unknown_01: Well, first off, I just want to let you know, that's not what I'm asking for. I don't want you to think that that's what I want you to do today. Okay.


Unknown_00: Well, you asked me if you asked me, why didn't I? Yeah. I would like to know what you think happens as a result.


Unknown_01:  Well, first of all, I was on there the other day, and I'll admit to you, I checked it out because I knew we were going to have this conversation. I wanted to see what kind of stuff was on there. At this point, I really don't see too much harmful stuff on there. It's just a bunch of people doing their usual bullshit. You know what I mean? They're talking about WWE champions. They're talking about they don't like my streams. They don't like I make money. Kino Casino is gaslighting him because they're glazing him, but they're going to turn on him. It's the bullshit. And even now.  Oh, no, guys, any minute.


0:33:46
Unknown_05: My worst enemies are coming on stream.


Unknown_01: Oh, wait a minute. Keemstar's on my podcast on Wednesday. So, like, what are you talking about? The stuff they say is ridiculous. Anyway, I think if you were to shut it down right now, what would happen is those people would be angry. They would scramble. And then eventually what they would try to do is find another way to go discuss me in that same manner. It would take them a while to probably organize and find stuff. They'd probably scramble to discords and they'd go other places.


0:34:22
Unknown_01:  the thing that I kind of want to talk about here is what's happened with Kiwi Farms particularly I don't know if it's other people but with me at least when people really want to hurt me Kiwi Farms is where they go to post anything that they feel will be the most hurtful to me we dropped for one second we're back up sorry I just died for like 5 seconds for a millisecond


0:34:58
Unknown_04:  We're back, we're back, we're back.


Unknown_03: Go ahead, Phil, finish your answer and then we'll... Hang on, hang on, hang on.


Unknown_04: Everyone, please write to refresh or whatever. Oh, man. Everyone write refresh. Sorry, guys. Sorry about that. I have no idea what happened.


Unknown_01:  Okay, what I was saying was, I think that if Josh were to close down my part of the forums on Kiwi Farms right now, those people who were there would scramble and try to find another place where they could do exactly the same thing, whether it's a Discord server or eventually they find another site to do it. Undoubtedly, they're going to keep trying to do what they're doing, right? So closing that part of the forum, I don't think would solve any kind of an immediate problem.  But for me, when I see people really want to harm me, they want to drop something that they know is personal information no one would have. They're committing a crime in order to hurt me or my business or my family. Kiwi Farms is where they go to post it because they see that as the ultimate safe space. No one's going to ever go after them. No one's going to reveal their information because they posted it. If they post it on YouTube, something might happen. If they post it on Twitter, something might happen. But if they post it on Kiwi Farms, we know that this is the ultimate neutral place and we're safe.  and that's my concern is that that has happened to me time and time again in the last five six years whenever someone does something heinous we're not even talking the realm of legality we're talking the realm of bad morality right disingenuous shit you're leaking information no one should have let me let me address both parts of this there's a there's two parts to it um the first is you're absolutely correct and i'm very happy that we could meet our minds could meet on this point


0:36:30
Unknown_00:  The number one reason why I have never even thought – well, I have thought about it, but I've never gotten close to deleting the board is that as you mentioned, A, there are people of, as you said, bad morality who I do. I keep out of the forum.  Um, and also, as you mentioned, the Kiwi farms is the go-to place to talk about, um, Phil and post things about Phil. So if I deleted the board and I'm not saying this about any particular mod, so hopefully the two X mods listening, don't get too pissy, but, um, if they started their own site and you know, they were left to their own devices, it would be much more, it would be different. And there would be different rules, especially considering that it's just the dark side Phil forum. There are a lot of people who,  who hate me, and who look for reasons to try and take down the site, and they look at every place on the forum. So everything has to be in order. There can be nothing that is illegal, there can be nothing that instigates harassment, etc. But if it's just the DarkSidePhil forum...  and it's just about Darkside Phil, they can get away with a lot more because there's no accountability there. That's just you and what you can muster. And what you can muster by yourself is a lot less than what everybody can muster.


0:37:16
Unknown_00: So in part, yes, not only would they go to a different place, and in Discord, Discord's like the worst of the worst. You can do anything you want in Discord.  you have you know people sharing child pornography on discord so discord has no rules as long as you don't get caught and the same kind of applies to public forums especially if they're invite only so one of the big reasons why i've never deleted the board is because i know that immediately people would seize that they would capitalize on it and they would make a place that um would would just become the kiwi farms dsp forum and it would be worse


0:37:53
Unknown_00:  And I don't want to try and sound like I'm saying I'm doing you a favor, but I am a moderating influence. And I set a baseline that has to be followed. And I think that in a roundabout way, I probably do do a favor.


Unknown_00: As far as people going to the forum to post stuff, of course, because it's the largest place with the most visibility and it doesn't come down. But there would be another board specifically for DSP that is worse that would offer the same kind of safe space, as you said.


0:38:48
Unknown_03:  What do you think about that, Phil? Do you think it would be worse for you, as Josh is saying, if he was to delete the board because he is a moderating influence? Let me put it this way.


Unknown_01: I feel the real problem right now is that Kiwi Farms has too much notoriety.  All right. Kiwi Farms is known as the place on the Internet that you can go and lol cows are being harassed and you're going to get all kinds of dirt on everyone. If you go to Kiwi Farms, that's how people see the site. Josh, I don't know if you understand that, but that's actually the public mentality. Of course, I understand the dirt side. You know what I mean?


0:39:19
Unknown_03:  I'll help you out a little bit on this, Phil. Josh, you've said that sometimes the forum has gotten too big to the point where it's an eye of Sauron, and sometimes it destroys lolcows and destroys content. Do you feel that way about Phil?


Unknown_00:  No, Phil's broader is not just the forum. When I say that, I mean, like, for instance, with Bossman, Bossman Jack had less than 100 viewers when I started talking about him and he got a thread on the forum. And now he's got multiple hundreds, thousands of people who watch him. And it necessarily, you know, kind of like with not to sound too nerdy, but like micro particles. It's like you observe a micro particle and it changes because you observe it.  Same thing with boss men. You put this attention on them and, of course, it changes. And this happens with everybody, the small fries, if they get a thread and it's a small little thread. But if attention gets brought onto it, it changes who they are necessarily just because they have that much attention.


0:39:50
Unknown_01:  Good answer. Back to you, Phil. What do you think? Okay, so the point I'm making is because Kiwi Farms is so notable, everyone knows about Kiwi Farms. If you want to hate on someone, go to Kiwi Farms and get all the dirt on them, right? If you were to shut down a thread about me right now, those people absolutely would scramble and go somewhere else. That other site they go to would never have the level of notoriety of Kiwi Farms.  sure the worst of the worst would still find it but you wouldn't have the common person searching to hate on someone going to that site you know what i'm saying it might take them a while eventually they would okay well let me let me finish my statement i definitely want to hear what you have to counter um


0:41:01
Unknown_01:  It might take time. And maybe that new detractor forum would grow to the notoriety size of Kiwi Farms. Very well, it could. But it would still take time. You understand that would actually be a time where like people on your forum, because this isn't just about me. This is about everyone who has a thread on your forum who's had the same level of harassment as me.  They would have a breath of fresh air. My God, you're telling me that for a few months, a year maybe, I can have a break from this where I know people won't have a central place to just post up all kinds of heinous shit about me? Yeah, I might come back. And then you deal with that devil when it attacks you, right? But to just have a breath of fresh air, wow.  I know for a day, no one's going to be posting up personal shit about me and my family and other shit on a site that everyone knows about. That would be a big relief, at least for someone like me. Okay. I get what you're saying. It wouldn't end it, but at least it would be a temporary reprieve.


0:41:33
Unknown_00:  Yeah, I think that sentiment would apply better to everyone except you specifically, because I'll do I'll do my T plus zero. OK, T plus 60 minutes. Kiwi Farms is down. Message goes up. Sorry, I feel really bad about what I've done. It's gone.  There would be darksidephil.exposed up immediately. And then they would start networking. It would be on Twitter. And then someone types in darksidephil on Google. The Kiwi Farms has limiters in its reach.


0:42:07
Unknown_00: There are people in Google who I know who hate me. And they have made it so that finding information on the forum through Google is actually difficult. I can confirm that because I have tried to search for things about myself.


0:42:39
Unknown_01: It does not show up at Google at all anymore. It's gone.


Unknown_00: It's gone.


Unknown_00:  But DSP or darksidefill.exposed, well, your name is right in the URL. You type in that and it's a big forum. It has enough threads. People are linking to it from external sites like Twitter or X and all the detractor channels. And then, of course, it would be ran by somebody who might have their own detractor channel and they would say – well, they would network with all the other detractors and they would get little fancy badges that says official YouTuber or whatever.  And that site would not only be – would have fewer checks and balances and would have less accountability. It would also have greater reach in search engines and would also have better network because like I said, the detractors don't like me. A lot of the channels don't like me. They would like this guy. They would like to network with him and get fancy badges and stuff on this site and promote it. So yeah, with you specifically, you don't get a break. Sorry. Yeah.


0:43:15
Unknown_01:  So you're saying you think that other people on the site would get a break, that they don't have as bad of a detractor community as I do?


Unknown_00: I mean, almost everyone except you would get a good deal from the site going down, at least for a while.


Unknown_00:  wow, that's interesting.


Unknown_01: Cause you know, I don't really look at the other people on the site, but that's an interesting perspective. What is it Josh about Phil and about the detractors that make them so much different than everybody else?


0:43:51
Unknown_03: Because like, we've just been interacting with Phil a little bit, like did a game stream with him, did an interview, did some react stuff. And like the reaction is like, you need to fucking die for talking to Phil.  like yeah it's crazy what is it what josh like what is it that makes it like this um i don't know and i i i feel like you know they try to justify it and for instance this is one thing that was brought up to me and i'd like to hear your perspective um do you know a guy named uh derish or derrick


0:44:35
Unknown_00:  yes yeah he's um he's like a he's like a supporter moderator and like thumbnail maker for your stream right wrong wrong and wrong on all three counts he's not a supporter he's not a moderator and he's never made a thumbnail for me whatsoever all wrong all detractor bullshit he's just a viewer okay and he made a tier maker for me once or twice okay tier maker yeah okay you have like receipts on that or is this what you've heard or is this what's in his thread or what  Well, his response is there's definitely a relationship or when I say relationship, I mean, there's definitely like a connection. But his response is actually it falls through a crack. I don't know how to respond to that because the guy is definitely like a like a fucking weirdo. And he definitely has like a playlist of like little girls and stuff on his YouTube. Like that's archived independently of the forum. But yeah.


Unknown_00:  I think I remember seeing his badge in chat, though, that he had a supporter, like a mod sword or something next to his message.


Unknown_01: No, you're seeing someone gifted him a membership. That's what you're seeing. It's just a gifted membership. Anyone can get that on YouTube. That says he has no power whatsoever on my streams whatsoever.


0:45:36
Unknown_03: But he's allowed in your streams, though. Yes, he is.  But he has playlists of little kids on his YouTube channel.


Unknown_05: Yeah.


Unknown_03: Shall we publicly address this formally? This is good. Let's talk about this. Why is he allowed to be a member of your community when he's such a creep?


Unknown_04: That's the one thing that's really fucking... Here is my philosophy.


Unknown_01: You guys can completely disagree as streamers yourselves, and everyone out there watching, you may also disagree as well. All right? But allow me to lay down my...  My methodology here I'm a content creator Every day I put on a stream I'm trying to entertain an audience I'm trying to make a living I gotta chat people come in people come out I see people from all walks of life People from here there and everywhere who attend my streams And I don't Basically don't judge anyone For anything but  What's going on in my stream? Okay. If I see someone in this stream doing something disgusting, having awful things said, or there's, you know, they're, they're breaking the rules. They're out of it. I have rules laid out. Actually, my stream, I think is a little bit more lax than others. Cause I used to be known as like the moderator heavy guy. And now I almost don't have any moderators anymore. I kind of handle it all myself. But anyway, my philosophy is what goes on in my stream is the extent of  my responsibility as a streamer to take care of now anyone out there who makes content do you personally know every single person who's on your stream do you know what their life is like behind the scenes do you know what kind of stuff that they are into what you know their kinks their bullshit what they post on their social media of course not how on holy hell would any of us ever know what all of our viewers are doing nor is it in our realm of responsibility to have to actually look into that you understand these people are just here to  watch me that's all i care about may i uh i just said okay so i understand what you're saying you don't know everyone's backstory you can't control everyone makes sense but we have verifiable evidence that derrick is a pedophile


0:47:28
Unknown_04:  He has playlists of kids and it's really weird fucking shit. And this is the one thing Ashton and I are like, what the fuck is, you know, I get what you're saying.


Unknown_03: I get what you're saying. Let's, let's, let's have, let Josh, Josh, what do you think?


Unknown_00: Yeah. Well,  It's not just this. Knowing about it, when you find out, you have to do something about that. And from what I understand, the big point of contention is not just that he's there. It's that other people who are in your community, who are in your chats, have pointed out that this guy is who he is. And he seems to be getting a layer of protection that people are able to observe. He seems to get away, according to...


0:48:20
Unknown_00:  The people that watch, he gets away with a lot more than other people would.


Unknown_00: It's suspicious to them. I don't know. I've not seen this, but that's what they say. So you don't even know what they're saying.


Unknown_01: You just think that somehow he's getting some kind of protections in my stream is what you're saying.


Unknown_00:  Yeah, either from people in the chat calling it out or just in regards to his behavior. Like apparently he spams a lot and he gets a pass with that. And people suspect that there is some kind of association there where he gets a pass. Like, for instance, with the thumbnails, because they say that he has like a monthly vacation. And during that vacation, the style of your thumbnails changes. And that is how they come to the conclusion that the thumbnails are being made by him because they don't get made by him when he's gone. Totally wrong.


0:48:58
Unknown_01:  He's literally never made anything like that for me whatsoever. Like I said, the only thing he's ever made is two tier makers, I believe, over the last year. So he has made stuff, though. Two tier makers, and one that I used on a stream and one I did not.


Unknown_03: But, Brother Phil, you can't have a pedophile making stuff for you and part of your community in a broad sense, right?


Unknown_03:  You should probably just ban the fucking guy and send him packing, and I think you'd get a lot less shit if you did.


0:49:38
Unknown_01: Here's the thing, you're right.


Unknown_05: You're absolutely right.


Unknown_01: You guys are correct. If I were right now to say, enough is enough, too many people have issue with this guy, ban him, okay? That would solve that problem. However...


Unknown_01:  the big picture that no one's looking at. Let's solve that problem then. Okay. Okay. But listen. Yeah. Go ahead. You don't understand the Pandora's box that you open.


Unknown_00: That's a very obvious, like slippery slope fallacy. It's like, you can get rid of the guy that has the little girl playlist on YouTube without opening Pandora's box. That's not really. No, no, no, no.


0:50:10
Unknown_01: Oh, Josh, you got to listen. All right. Cause again, you know how bad my detractors are. Correct. You  know how crazy they are the only reason that we even know anything about this person is because my detractors went to all of his personal socials and dug into them deep they got him deep okay now hold on i know listen listen listen i'm not disputing what you guys are saying but please let me finish what i'm saying for sure for sure all right


Unknown_01:  If the only reason that I know that this guy did something bad is because people went off of the realm of my streams and my content to find it, I'm sorry, but that's not my responsibility to be dealing with. Do you understand? Because here's the thing. Now, please listen. If I ban Derek right now, I call him Derek because that's what I thought his name was. I guess it actually is Darish or whatever, but if I ban Derek right now,


0:50:53
Unknown_01:  Here's what will happen. Because here's what Josh just said about Kiwi Farms. If he deletes my thread on Kiwi Farms right now... The detractors go somewhere else to do something worse. Correct? If I ban Derek right now... The detractors won. Because they say, look what we did. We researched a guy who no one would have known he had anything wrong with him...  by just watching Phil's streams. For the record, Derek has never once talked about any of this malicious activity on my stream. He knows better than that. He doesn't bring that shit. That's his personal life or whatever, right? So he does not do that on my streams. If I ban him, guess what happens? The detractors say,  We got the response we wanted.


0:51:28
Unknown_00: If I may, I have a very personal – because there's a very comparable story to this. The forum is having a kind of beef with this Rakeda guy that you know about. And he dug through some information, and he found out that one of the users is a convicted child pornographer from the District of Columbia.  And when this was brought to my attention, I banned him. And sure, them finding this out was a win. You know, they won. They got to say, oh, well, the Kiwi Farms has a pedophile. We can prove it. And it's true. It's embarrassing. But I still banned him because I don't want a pedophile on my forum. Do you think that's a fair comparison?


0:52:01
Unknown_01:  It is a fair comparison. However, you didn't let me finish the statement here. The moment I ban Derek and these detractors say we won, guess what happens? You just gave them exactly what they wanted. You gave them the attention they're craving, and then they move on to someone else. And then they move on to someone else. And then they move on to someone else until it's done.


0:52:36
Unknown_03:  But sometimes in life you have to hold the L. And sometimes bad people are going to win. But that's just the reality. You can't have a pedophile in your community like an open pedophile. And you're basically admitting he's a pedophile.


Unknown_01: Oh, no. Let me tell you this. I will say this.  I don't know anything about that because I make it a philosophy. I do not personally research my viewers. I think that's fucking creepy that I would spend my time. Every time that someone says something about someone, I got to go search their socials. I got to go to their YouTube page and search their history.


Unknown_04: Sorry. So you're saying people did research outside the realm of your show and whatever. I get what you're saying there. Well, if Derek was caught and you found out that the  police found something on him and he's in the middle of a trial right now and he was he was a pedophile right and it wasn't the detractors or anything it was through legal whatever right then would you ban him because it wasn't detractors well how would i find out about that like how would i even know a fan of yours goes i live in the same city as him and i saw him on the news for example hmm


0:53:15
Unknown_00:  What if it was Harvey Weinstein? How bad does somebody have to be before you're like, well, I don't want to associate with this guy? You know what I mean? So if Hitler was on my stream and was still alive, would I ban Hitler? Yeah. If Adolf Hitler 1488 was an active user on your stream, would you ban him? Because he's only the Führer in Germany, and you don't know anything about that, right? Wow.


0:53:50
Unknown_00:  Yeah, I mean, you're right.


Unknown_01: I mean, that's a good point.


Unknown_01: And I totally understand what you're saying. I do. Let me tell you, I've gotten a lot of shit over this. And here's the funny part. What the fuck does this have to do with me? It's not even anything I've done or ever. I gotta take shit because someone got dirt on a viewer of mine who talks a lot in chat or whatever. And again, the other things you've been told are not true. He's not a moderator. He doesn't regularly make any content for me. He's had one...


0:54:23
Unknown_01:  uh tier maker that i made that's it like that's literally the extent of that and then he talks so if he does have playlists of little girls on his channel he's creeping on little girls do you disavow that behavior oh absolutely i do absolutely i disavow derrick then yeah i don't i don't condone any of that but at the same time i'm not going to go out of my way to find out who everyone is or what they do outside of the room we're bringing it to you


0:54:56
Unknown_03:  Me and Josh have both looked at it as of yesterday, saw that it was foul and disgusting, and now we're bringing it to you. We're credible. Like, I'm trying to help you. Let me phrase it like this. Oh, I know. I know. I totally understand where you guys are going.


Unknown_00: You are totally correct that if you ban this guy, the detractors will start looking into your viewers harder. You are totally correct. That is a completely accurate assessment.  But wouldn't you still not want this guy to be in your community or your audience and openly known as this guy?


0:55:36
Unknown_00:  Because if – I'll swing it the other way. It's a no-win situation. That's correct. If you don't ban him – if you ban him, then the detractors will look into your other viewers and you're completely accurate about that. But if you do – if you don't ban him, if you do nothing, then they will just continue to bring this up with an accurate line from point A to point B.  And it will always be there and it will always haunt you and people will always ask, well, why the fuck doesn't he just ban this guy if he knows about him?


Unknown_00: It's a no-win situation. I agree. But I think that one option is better than the other.


0:56:09
Unknown_01: So to answer that, at least in my experience, and I'm 42 years old. I don't know how old you are, Josh, but I'm 42 years old. I've learned in my 42 years on this planet that I would much rather deal with the devil I know than the devil I don't.  And what I mean by that is I know who Derek is. I can't confirm or deny what you guys are saying because I've literally never looked into it. How can you say you know who he is when you won't look into it?


Unknown_03: I know who he is in my chat. I know who he is as part of the community.


Unknown_01: This is flat out delusional, though.


0:56:41
Unknown_03: Like, if you look at his Twitter account, it's just straight up porn, porn, porn, porn, porn.


Unknown_01:  I believe you. You're telling me this now as a neutral third party, correct? You're neutral.


Unknown_04: It's very foul. Like, Phil, this is not like, oh, someone's kind of like an incel or weird or whatever.


Unknown_00: It's three playlists with hundreds of videos of just little girls doing innocuous things. It's genuinely fucking creepy.


Unknown_01:  If this is what you guys are telling me, then yeah, I'm going to ban him.


Unknown_00: Let's go!


0:57:17
Unknown_01:  The devil, that was the devil I knew. You understand? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I can deal with that. I know how to deal with this guy. Talks a lot in the chat and whatever, and it's annoying to certain people, and I gotta hear people talk about what he does in his personal life. But now when I ban him, now I gotta deal with the devil I don't know. What's the next person who's now gonna get harassed by my detractors? And I don't want this to be like Phil's viewer hunt.


Unknown_03: What?


Unknown_01:  I understand that, but I think regardless of what you do, your viewers are going to get harassed. And they're still going after your other viewers.


Unknown_00: This happened before. There were whales on the DSP channel who got doxxed, and I think that was one of the other things where I was kind of irritated with people on the DSP board because they were doxxing. I don't remember his name, but there was a guy that gave you a lot of money simply because he gave you a lot of money. Josh, you have to understand.


0:57:57
Unknown_01:  You have to understand something. What you're describing right now is a normal day of behavior on that forum about me. That's not like the exception to the rule. That's literally what happens every time a whale shows up to support me. They get doxxed on your forum. And that's why the Derek thing doesn't matter because it's like they're going to be pieces of shit no matter what.


Unknown_04: And honestly, like we're telling you right now, I swear, Phil, we've been as nice as possible. I got to say this Derek guy is twisted.


0:58:35
Unknown_03:  It's just bad news, Phil.


Unknown_03: You've got to get rid of this guy. You didn't know until today, but now you know. And I'm just telling you, man. It gets worse if you don't do anything about it.


Unknown_00: It gets way worse if you don't get rid of him.


Unknown_03: And quite frankly, our audience isn't going to tolerate Derek. And I...


Unknown_03:  And nor do I. I'm not going to tolerate Derek either. And some people in chat are saying, why haven't you banned Derek from this chat? If Derek hasn't been banned from our chat already, I advise every single mod to ban him. Because I honestly, like, it's just this weird, creepy stuff. Like, he's got Lolicon going on on his Twitter.  He had that YouTube playlist of little girls. And then everything he talks about is porn all the time. And it's just a bad look for you to be associated with it, Phil. And I think if you were to cut this cancer off at the legs and just throw him the fuck out, I think you would win a lot of respect and support from people straight.


0:59:08
Unknown_01:  and here's the thing you just said so if you were to cut the cancer off but the thing is he's not me he's just a dude in my chat so I get what you're saying the only reason that association ever existed is because my detractors went and stalked the guy to figure out the information I'm not being sympathetic to what he's doing I'm sympathetic to the fact that  This guy never did that in my chat. And then the rules now are going to become, oh, well, now if you ever do anything that's deemed immoral, Phil might ban you from his chat. And I don't want to think that.


0:59:54
Unknown_04: Surpasses a lot of immoral stuff, in my opinion.  And, and also, you know, we have a lot of viewers here. If someone went and found something on one of the viewers and it was like, they're fucking, you know, pedophile, this, that, the other, we'd surely ban them without even the thought. Right. Especially if it came out to be true.  And you're like, okay, this guy in, it's not like, it's like a rumor. It's this guy on his main channel. You click view channel and he's got it open. Like he's like, here it is guys. And we really think that I know, I know what you're saying that your, your detractors will be crazy and psychotic and go after other people, but they'll do that anyway. And I'd respect you a lot. If you just, just got rid of him and you know,  It sort of puts a precedent to I will not let people who believe in this shit in my chat.


1:00:31
Unknown_03: I'm just saying the proof is like overwhelming. Like it's undeniable when you look at it. It's just too overwhelming to deny. Okay.


1:01:05
Unknown_01: Done. All right. So, I mean, I'll be honest. Here's my final statement on it. It makes me sad for two reasons. Number one, it makes me sad to know that this guy does all that shit because I heard it for like two years now.  And I'm just like, it's just the detractors, right? They're just, maybe they're exaggerating. They're making it up. And I mean, philosophy, I'm not going to do this. I'm not going to look into it because if I do, I've broken my own moral code that I'm not going to look and stalk and harass my own viewers. So that's why I haven't done it until today. But now that you guys have said this to me, I believe you. I don't think you have anything to gain by lying to me.  So I will be banning him when he shows up because you know undoubtedly he's going to show up in my chat this week, and I will ban him on all of my channels. A righteous decision, King. Here's why I'm sad, all right? To be honest with you guys, from what I know of the guy in my chat, he actually was like a good person in the chat. He seemed nice. He's a nice guy. He adds nice comments. I mean, he's needy. He always asks, hey, talk to me. Why is he not talking to me, right? But he has very nice positive comments.  This is like, you know someone for a while


1:02:10
Unknown_01:  and you only know like so let's say you have a work you're at work and someone at work is someone you're friendly with right and you're like wow they're a nice guy then you find out two years later that this guy's a scumbag like something like this that's the feeling i have about it but you guys are absolutely correct so i'm gonna get rid of him because i trust you


1:02:52
Unknown_05:  Josh, give us your thoughts here and then we'll go back to Phil and we'll do a few more rounds.


Unknown_04: Real quick here. Tetra backs with 25. Wow. Big support.


Unknown_00: Appreciate all you here. All right. Sorry. Go ahead.  It's not a unique problem, because there's another person who has a large following called Chantel, and her top moderator for years was this guy who got outed as a convicted sex offender. And she finds out, and it's like, well, that sucks. He's been a facet of the streams for three years now, but...


Unknown_00:  Bye-bye. Bye-bye.


1:03:30
Unknown_04: Yeah, it's back and twisted. And, you know, we respect that you're doing that. I know it's sort of like everyone was saying this, and I get it. You don't want to listen to your detractors because they do exaggerate or lie about some stuff, sure. So you're like, but we're just telling you straight up this is a 110% not even question. But, yeah, I respect that, man. Okay. Fair enough. Yeah.


Unknown_03:  Do you have any other questions for Josh, Phil, specifically about the forum or about... Yeah, like for example, there's a couple specific instances I'd like to bring up and get his take on it.


1:04:07
Unknown_01: So for example, one of the things that's happened over the last couple of years is that my detractors have been harassing extended family members.  That myself and my wife have absolutely no interaction with whatsoever, okay? For the record, my wife does not have interaction with her family members. She has, like, there's history there, and there's a reason she doesn't talk to them. She moved on from having other family, you know what I'm saying? It's a personal situation. I'm not going to tell you what it is, but there's a reason for it, a good reason for it, okay?  my detractors went out of their way and of course it's public information to find out that she has a sister okay they then contacted the sister told the sister about where we live who i am all of our fucking contact information and shit they've gone on the sister and goaded her to do streaming they've thrown the sister money and if you really want to know how it all started it was my thread on kiwi farms because they found all that information and they posted it up there  And now I'm not being rude, but is this the woman that a user from the Kiwi farms, um, had sex with?


1:05:07
Unknown_00:  I have no idea. I don't know. There's a thread, and I want to say it's someone related to Kat that somebody hunted down and had sex with. Yeah, and there's pictures of it on the forum. I think I banned that guy.


Unknown_01: See what I mean? This is the kind of shit that shows up on my forum. What does this have to do with anything with us? We have no association with this person. We don't talk with this person. To our knowledge, this person might have some issues, and so we don't want to be associated with this person.  So why is any of this existing on KiwiFarms? Is that not like the level that you would think, wow, that's kind of extreme, this shouldn't be in the DarkSidePhil forum? What does that even have to do with DarkSidePhil?


1:05:44
Unknown_00: Go ahead, Josh. I mean, I did ban them, but I can't like unfuck her sister, you know? It's already happened. It's already done and posted on the internet. I can't do anything about that.


Unknown_00: So, but why is it in my forum? Because it's really new. It has nothing to do with me.


Unknown_00:  It has nothing to do with me. I mean, it does. That's why the event happened because she was related to your wife.


Unknown_01: But that's not my, that's not me. That's the, it's the dark side Phil thread. It's not the cat Burnell thread, right?


1:06:20
Unknown_00: Um, I mean, in, in some ways it is, she's married to you and the Bible says that you become one spirit. So technically she's joined to the forum.


Unknown_00:  I'm sorry, but no, that's where I got to draw the line, dude.


Unknown_01: So now you're saying just because I have a public persona that literally anyone who has ever had an association with me in my life needs to get drawn into this drama sphere, that's bullshit. Because that's a cope is what that is. Because you know that having family members that you don't have any association with being drawn into drama is bullshit. Come on, Josh. Just fess up and be like, yeah, that's extreme. That definitely shouldn't have been on there.


1:06:54
Unknown_00:  I mean, that guy should not have done that, but the fact that it happened and that he recorded it and posted it on the internet, it doesn't matter if it's on the forum or not. Like, that happened.


Unknown_01: Okay. It could be on the internet. Does it belong on the DarkSidePhil forum, and should it still be there right now?


Unknown_00: That is probably the most accurate position to put it, and you can't put a genie back in the bottle. You just can't. That's not how it works.


1:07:25
Unknown_00: But is it there right now?


Unknown_00:  I believe so. Probably. And should it be? I haven't seen your forum. Yes or no?


Unknown_01: Should it be on a forum about me?


Unknown_00: I mean, yeah. If you're throwing darts and you throw that dart, the bullseye for that is probably going to be... Like, where it lands is going to be closer to you than anybody else. Like, where else is it going to go? Like, categorically speaking, where does it go?


Unknown_01: I'm going to be like...  I'm very frank with you. That is an ultimate coat because basically what you just said is anything goes. That's like saying I was walking down the street and I looked at a guy and I nudged him. Oops, he could be on Kiwi Farms tomorrow because I nudged the guy walking down the street. He should be doxxed.


1:07:58
Unknown_00: That's extreme. With Chris Chan, one time he took a picture of a black woman in a BK and posted it on the internet and said, this woman gave me poor service. The troll should doxx her.  And they did. It's on the forum to this day, like 10 years later. Chris Jan took the picture of the woman, posted it on the internet.


Unknown_01: That makes it appropriate to Chris Jan to post on his forum. I have absolutely no association with this woman. I don't know her. I will never speak with her. She has nothing to do with our lives. We don't speak with her. We disowned that relationship.  You are allowing people to now go outside the realm of what the forum thread is supposed to be and just toss anything on there and say, well, it was on the internet. It's free speech. No, no, no, no, no. You're allowing systematic harassment. You're allowing systematic harassment is what you're doing with your forum.


1:08:34
Unknown_00: I'm not allowing anything. If someone goes out and harasses people and talks about it on the forum, they do get banned.


1:09:05
Unknown_00: But it's on the forum right now.


Unknown_00: Yeah, I'm pretty sure the guy got banned.


Unknown_01:  But you said the content is still on the forum. You banned the guy who posted the content, but you left the content up? I mean, yeah. What am I going to do with it? Pretend it didn't happen? Oh, so this is interesting because I didn't even know this. So what you're saying is if someone violates the forum rules, you will ban them, but you do not remove the bad content? You leave it there? Yeah.


Unknown_00:  It depends on a concept of harm reduction. If it is, for instance, I'll give you two adjacent perspectives. Let's say that somebody has sex with Kat's cousin or whatever and post that on the Internet. Well, that's out there. It's going to get proliferated around. It's going to get spread regardless of what happens.  If someone posts nude images of their own girlfriend randomly in the forum, that would be against the forum rules, and it would then be prudent to delete them because it's just a harmful use of the site without any connection or purpose. But when it comes specifically to content about high-profile people, there is literally no reason. There's no good being done there.


1:10:12
Unknown_01:  You don't think there's good being done to remove that content from that forum right now? You don't think that that would be in the best interests of everyone involved? Of this woman who they're actually stalking and doing things to to get content? And she has nothing to do with us.


Unknown_00: When you say stalking...


Unknown_00:  There is no coordination to do this. This guy said, I'm going to go, I'm going to contact this woman. And I think he found like her profile, like a, like, you know, like a hookup site or something. And it's like, he didn't conspire. He didn't use the, he didn't use the forum as a tool to, to accomplish this. He did it. And then he talked about it on the internet and there's no way to undo that.


1:10:46
Unknown_00: To me. Okay.


Unknown_03: Is it revenge porn though?


Unknown_00:  It could be, but revenge porn as a crime does not exist. Maybe in some states, but at a federal level, there exists a tort of non-consensual pornography. So if she was unaware that he was recording, she could sue him under that tort, but she could not sue the platform.  And she may even be able to get a court order to take things down because sometimes they do that. And if I get a court order, then I get a court order. And that's just what it is. I remember like, hasn't aid zero tried to take, I know you can't probably talk about it.


1:11:20
Unknown_03: Hasn't she tried to take legal action?


Unknown_00: She's tried to invoke VAWA, which is called the violence against women's act. And that's the act that has this tort for non-consensual pornography. But as I explained, it's a tort between two parties that doesn't involve the platform. And it may result in a court order to remove content from,


Unknown_00:  But the tricky thing with revenge pornography in particular is that the person photographed does not own the copyright. The pornographer does. So unless the pornographer wants it down.


1:11:53
Unknown_03: It's a copyright issue.


Unknown_00: It is literally a copyright issue usually. And there's famous cases where people have bought the rights to their pornography so that they could use copyright to take it down. But if there's no cooperation there, then that can't happen. Wow.  But in generally speaking, if it's pure malice and no association with anything tangentially related to the forum, then it will get taken down. But again, if it's a high profile person, there's nothing I can do about it. Like it's out there. Yeah.


Unknown_01:  Well, first of all, that statement's false. There is something you could do about it. You could remove it from your forum right now, and then people would have to seek it out elsewhere. Again, it's the notoriety of KiwiFarm.


1:12:25
Unknown_00: But we discussed this. If I started censoring things, people would go to an alternative site. I don't censor things, so they stay on the forum where there's a moderating spirit to it.


Unknown_01:  That's correct. So so basically what you're saying is because it's on your site, you feel you're the best person on this planet to be moderating this kind of content. You're the best man for the job. No one else could do better than you. And therefore, that's why you feel you have.


Unknown_00: That's a deep philosophical question that was raised by Christopher Hitchens. Who among you would you select as your censor? I select myself. I don't think that there's another person on the forum who's better capable of doing what I do than I do.


1:13:01
Unknown_00:  I'm not saying your forum.


Unknown_01: I'm saying in general. Do you think there's anyone better who could do a better job?


Unknown_00: If there's a more capable person, I don't know him.


Unknown_01:  okay because what this leads to a question like why do you continue to own and operate kiwi farms to my knowledge you got you have been through the ringer with this thing people are really coming after you legally they're trying to take this site down because of stuff that's been on it and you just keep going you've gone from host to host getting kicked off going here going there why do you keep maintaining this site if it's causing you so much pain and problems because i love it it's the best site on the internet


1:13:46
Unknown_01:  So you just love drama and gossip so much that you feel like that's your thing and you just want to keep it going?


Unknown_00: I think the site is one of the most entertaining sites that has ever existed. I use it every single day. I post about, like, three to five times a day, depending.


Unknown_00: I keep up to date with a lot of the stuff. Not everything, but I do keep abreast. I do a podcast about stuff that happens on the forum. I –


Unknown_03:  Sometimes you've said that it hasn't made you the happiest in life, right? Sometimes it's cost you a lot of opportunities in life and sometimes you've been sad about the state of it, right?


1:14:24
Unknown_00: I mean, yeah. I mean, sometimes it's like there are days like during Drop Kiwi Farms, there was a time where it was like 3 a.m. where I was at and I was literally just sitting with my hand in my head staring at a terminal that couldn't connect to the IP address. I'm just thinking, what the fuck is the next step?


Unknown_00:  But I continue to work at it because I enjoy my site. And during that time where my site was down, I tried to use other sites out of necessity. Like, okay, I want to talk to people. I want to socialize a bit. So I went to Discord. I went to Reddit. And I realized, God, all these places suck ass. And I hate them. And my forum is the best site on the internet. So I got to bring it back up no matter what. All right.


1:14:57
Unknown_03: Back to you, Phil. What do you think about what Josh is saying here?


Unknown_01:  Here's the thing. We're never going to come to any kind of an agreement because it sounds to me like Josh and I come from different places of morality. This isn't a legal issue. It's not. I know for a fact that most of the stuff that's been put on the forum about me is legal. There is some stuff that has been illegal. All right. Let's be clear here. There actually has been information that people broke laws to get, and that should never have been put on there. Okay. But as for the legality of most of it, you know, legally, I don't know how much they could really ever come after you, Josh.  And, you know, that's not really what my issue is. My issue is morality.


1:15:31
Unknown_01: I don't know if these guys will agree with me, but I can tell you from my own personal perspective, that site, your website, Kiwi Farms, I am telling you here 100%.


Unknown_01:  has hurt me and my family, 100%. It's hurt my business as well. This is not me trying to get any sympathy from you, Josh. I'm telling you, your website has outright, definitively hurt myself, my family, and my business. And it continues to do so because it's the focal point for when people want to hurt us, that's the first place they go, okay? So I'm gonna give you an analogy that I've been talking about on my streams recently.  Maybe you can kind of understand my perspective. Okay. So let's say that I was rich and famous and I wanted to be like a philanthropist. Okay. And I wanted to open up a community center in a local area because, you know, I thought it would help the community out. It's the best thing. It's the best community center ever.  But what happens is the people, okay, good. The people here who go to the community center keep getting into fights. They keep beating the shit out of each other. Then, okay, we get it cleaned up. We get in there. That shouldn't have been there. All right. But then the next week there's a knife fight. Someone gets stabbed. Someone's hurt.  Oh my God, that sucks. Let's clean it up. Let's clean it up. So it's not one times, two times. This happens hundreds of times. People are actually getting hurt at this community center. And despite all of your efforts over the years to keep this community center a clean place, a fun place, a place where people are actually getting meaningful stuff out of it. God damn it. It's out of control and you know it.


1:17:14
Unknown_01: Do you keep that community center open and people continue to get hurt or do you close the community center?


Unknown_00: What would you do?


Unknown_00:  I mean, right now, the forum is probably the tamest it's ever been. Back in the day, you've got to understand, back when the site was smaller, we could get away with a lot more. And as time has gone on, and as...


Unknown_00:  You know, we've gotten more attention. I've had to stick closer to the rules, you know, and be more careful about what I say and more careful about what I let people say on the forum. You're saying like, oh, well, this community center sounds like a coliseum where you're just letting in the lions to tear at people. And you're just when, you know, people get mangled, they just sweep the bodies away and bring in the next gladiators or whatever.


1:17:54
Unknown_00:  Really, over time, the site has gotten bigger, but also a lot more tame. And even your board is a lot more tame. So I would disagree. Now, we can get away with more.


Unknown_03: What do you mean by that? You used to be able to get away with more.


Unknown_00: Oh, yeah, sure. I mean, during the day, the site used to have people who are much more actively engaged in trolling. And I would turn a blind eye to it. But that hasn't been the case for like eight plus years now. We've really had to be more careful about what we do.


Unknown_03:  Go ahead. What was your second point you were going to make? I'm sorry I cut you off.


1:18:30
Unknown_00: I mean, the other part is that you said, well, the Kiwi Farms has done harm to you. The Kiwi Farms is a collection of assets and licenses in the Zenforo forum software. That's the Kiwi Farms.  But there are people on it who I do believe, I completely believe you, have done harm to you, especially, like I said, people who choose to go after your supporters. I think OIC was the guy that they say they all hate the most. And I do believe that causes harm to you when people go after you. But I think if you were to name your top detractors and the people who are actively doing the most harm to you, you would find that most of them probably don't even have a presence on the forum.  Now, maybe, you know, over time, the most damaging information and stuff has happened on the forum, but it's not the forum. It's people on the forum. And that's the argument that it's not the gun that committed the crime.


1:19:03
Unknown_01: It's the person who shot the weapon. Absolutely correct.


Unknown_03:  I want to say something, because you've expressed in the past, Josh, that you want to move on from the Kiwi Farms one day, that it holds you back potentially from having a family, from having a normal life. Is that still your plan to eventually move away from the forum or?


1:19:48
Unknown_00:  Well, right now, I mean, it depends on how things go. Right now, things are looking up and there's a potential that I can make things work. Every day seems a little bit brighter and there's ups and downs. But overall, the trend from early this year to now and from that time last year to then has been an upwards trend. Everything seems to be turning around fast.


Unknown_00:  And, yeah, I mean, if there ever came a point where it's like the forum is the reason I cannot progress in life, then I would have to move on from it. But right now, there's nothing that I want to do that the forum is getting in the way of.


1:20:26
Unknown_03: Okay. I'll ask you this, too, because there's some tough questions for Phil. I'm going to give you a couple.


Unknown_03:  Do you ever feel trapped by the Kiwi Farms? Like, do you ever feel like maybe the users kind of force your hand in a certain way or you can't run it the way that you might want to run it because if you do it that way, people will come after you from the site?


Unknown_00:  As a whole, no. I don't feel like that. I feel that most people have a very, very, very high level of trust in me. And if I make certain decisions, even if it's unpopular, the majority, the overwhelming majority of people would understand. There are certain pockets where people are less cooperative, and that's the DSP board, basically. And maybe also the political area of the site, people...


1:21:01
Unknown_03:  But you never feel like you're a hostage king? Like you're being forced to keep running the site?


Unknown_00: I can bring it down at any time and disappear in an instant. People never know what country I'm in, what my name is. I could disappear in a second.


1:21:37
Unknown_00: I don't feel... It's the other way. You're stuck with me.


Unknown_00: Nobody else can run this shit.


Unknown_03:  All right. Anything else, Phil, that you have for Josh or you want to confront him about or anything like that?


Unknown_01: Again, this wasn't really about being a hostile confrontation. I wanted him to understand that his site is the facilitation of –  a lot of hateful content towards myself, my family members, and my business. I know he's trying to clean it up. I will agree with him. I did check the forums before this discussion, and it did look a lot cleaner than it had previously. But for me, I've now been through this so many years. It's like, what's the next thing? Because you know, right now, if someone were to hack one of my accounts, the first place you would find out about it is Kiwi Farms, because they'd be like, look at all the information I got from Phil's accounts. I know I probably shouldn't put it on the internet, but it's on Kiwi Farms. It's allowed.  right yeah yeah but i don't think he's ever gonna i i did not think our conversation was gonna lead that like josh oh i'm gonna close this forum today that's not even what we i was going no um i gotta say so is phil's bank leak still up on kiwi farms like are all of his transactions laid out on there or what was the the moderation decision on that they are i mean it's it's it's another thing where it's like


1:22:55
Unknown_00:  If I delete it, it gets reposted to Twitter. It gets shared around by the detractors. It probably ends up on a different website.


Unknown_00: That was one of the things where I got angry with people in the forum. It's like, it's not okay to hack someone's bank account. And it's like, I don't care if they're playing fucking WWE on mobile or whatever the fuck, whatever justification you have for it.  trying to prove that he's putting you know all this money into some fucking gacha game i don't it does not justify a federal um computer fraud act violation you know what i mean well it's psychotic though isn't it like where does it end like where does it end because isn't there some guy also i want to bring this to get this in as well isn't there some guy who's fucking with phil's internet like turning it on and off and shit and he posted it on kiwi farms the evidence that it was yeah  That's another thing where it's like you're a fucking employee with Comcast. They have logs. They can see in the fucking logs that you're doing this. Why are you doing it? What fucking game is there in doing this?


1:23:44
Unknown_01:  And we caught him. The tech and I went into my modem during a tech visit because we didn't know what the hell was going on. And we saw all the logins from this guy. And we're like, this guy doesn't realize that we have evidence that he logged in.


Unknown_00: Yeah, does he not think that the largest ISP in the United States doesn't keep fucking logs when people log into a consumer modem? Like, are you nuts?


1:24:21
Unknown_03: I will say, though, Josh, at a certain point with these people, like,  they don't really fit into the culture of the rest of the site. Some of these detractors are committing fucking crimes, making you fucking look bad. Do you ever consider just washing your fucking hands of this shit? Cause it's like with the DSP board in particular.


Unknown_00: Yeah. I mean, it's gotten close, you know, like what, like walk us through some of these situations where you've got close in your thinking to where it's like,


Unknown_03:  God looked at the world and he regretted what he made and the flood came and washed this fucking shit away and there was a rainbow. Walk us to where you came close to sending that flood.


1:24:58
Unknown_00: I think I already have. It's the guy that hooked up with the cousin or whatever that was bizarre. The Comcast shit was fucking bizarre. And the bank leaks were fucking bizarre. The issue...


Unknown_01:  The sad thing is, Josh, and I know this from my personal experience, what they're doing is they're literally making it a competition at this point. Who can do the most fucked up thing? Even though they know they might even get in trouble for it, they don't even care anymore. They just will keep exalating as far as they can get away with, even if they don't get away with it. That Comcast guy got shit can't.  you know, but they don't care. They know if I do the most extreme thing, I can post it on Kiwi farms. They used to do this in my video comments. Let's say the most extreme doxing racist thing and Phil's video comments. So there's only toxic shit in his comments. And then people would highlight that and put it into tractor videos, right? That's what they're now doing with Kiwi farms. Cause I don't allow that shit in my content. They found a neutral place that they can do it. And this competition is going to continue because you're allowing it.


1:25:34
Unknown_00:  Well, people are allowed to say whatever they want. There's no world where I would step on and say, oh, you can't say X, Y, Z in regards to just discussion posts.


1:26:13
Unknown_00:  But that's not what we're talking about.


Unknown_01: We're not talking about discussion posts. We're talking about what we just said. Bank leaks, employees committing, you know, horrible acts against me and posting the evidence on your site. People fucking with extended family members. That's not a forum post.


Unknown_00: I mean, I agree. That's like a weird game. I think like the people trying to prove like expenditure, like the main, I think like the Holy grail for like the detractors. And this is something that exists outside the forum.


Unknown_00:  The Holy Grail is proving beyond a reasonable doubt that a majority of your spending goes to mobile games. I think that's it. And they're really hyper-focused on that.


1:26:48
Unknown_01:  Yeah, no, I will. I will agree there. And it's just, you know, it's I get it because that's the one thing that they feel like they got me on because I'm not going to open my fucking documents and show you everything in my personal life because then that opens up. You know what?


Unknown_03: The thing is, you shouldn't have to open up any of the fucking documents. You shouldn't have to show your financial statements. But this shit's been going on long enough, Phil, like.  you play WWE champions. You know what I mean? Right. I don't, I don't think, let's go.


1:27:21
Unknown_00: I don't think it's a problem that you, it doesn't matter.


Unknown_03: You champions and that you spend your money on WWE champions. It's your money. It's your supporters. And you should just be fucking open about it. Cause fuck them. Yeah. Fuck them.


Unknown_01:  You're right. The reason that it became so big is because at first I said I didn't. And so, oh, again, with these people, it's the absolute. It's either you black or white. So because at one point I said I didn't, I always said I didn't. No, actually over the years I have admitted I do play it. I do spend money on it.  Now, what they say about it is wrong. They over-exaggerate to get that shock reaction from the viewership. They're purposefully saying, oh, he spent – that video, I just looked at it yesterday from Doody. He says, Phil spent $2,448 on WWE champions this weekend. No, I didn't. This weekend? Just this weekend, he's saying I spent that. No, what the –


1:27:52
Unknown_02:  What the fuck are you talking about? Even if you did, though.


Unknown_03: You're a big baller, though. You're a fucking king. Fuck them. Honestly, Phil, at this point, I would just say start streaming WWE channels.


1:28:23
Unknown_01: In reality, I had...  i had the conversation with my viewer yesterday i says what i might do is make a new account and just start over and show people how you built it up and show them how you build it and they play wwe champions all the fucking live long that's like the serious long-term point of contention though is that they because i think the down from the rafters account like happened during or immediately before the bankruptcy saga so people are like well you're asking for this financial help but it's


Unknown_00:  It's like going to this game. Like, was it ever, like, problem for you? Did you ever have, like, a problemed relationship with gaming?


1:29:01
Unknown_00: When you mean that, do you mean, what do you mean, like, addiction to mobile games and stuff?


Unknown_01: In particular with spending, not just in games.


Unknown_03: You said about SuperCard, not Champions, but you said with SuperCard you were kind of embarrassed with how much you spent on SuperCard, right?


Unknown_01: That is correct.  supercard it was like about a year two years where i was spending on the game and playing the shit out of it and it was like i was i definitely was addicted to it you know i'll admit it now i was playing the fuck out of it for no reason to win an event in supercard you had to play for like eight hours straight without even interrupting i would be like i'd be streaming and i have to keep tapping the screen when i'm fucking streaming and shit to fucking play the fucking thing  That's how stupid these games are. Eight hours straight? Yeah. In order to win, you would have to be a nut job, basically.


1:29:44
Unknown_04: Oh, dude.


Unknown_01: And guess what? Guess what the best card I ever got was? What?


Unknown_03: What?


Unknown_01: Hogan. Hogan?


Unknown_02: What? What?


Unknown_02:  Get those Hogans, brother.


Unknown_03: The greatest wrestler of all time who's helping make America great again, brother. Fuck yeah.


Unknown_01: But here's the thing. I've made a lot of bad financial decisions along the way. Yeah. Many. Stupid things. Wrapped up credit cards when I moved out here. I furnished a house way too expensive. I did dumb things. My plan was to move across the country, charge everything to a credit card, and continuously balance the credit cards by doing balance transfers for two, three years at 0% interest at


1:30:16
Unknown_01:  I fucked my credit up. I fucked up. It's my fault. I went through the bankruptcy, but these guys now have realized this is their ongoing thing. They can never, they know I'm not going to open up all my fucking information for them. So they will just say it forever.  So for me, I mean, you notice, did you notice I made a video last night? Oh, did you guys see yesterday? I actually did pull for a Hogan live on stream.


1:30:49
Unknown_03: Now what we got to do is get it on camera this time.


Unknown_01: We got to go the full way.


Unknown_03: Let's get a new account, fresh account.  And just start playing it. And I guarantee you people will support with contributions like never before to get you the best Hogan's. Yeah, like Boston Jack, how they pay him. And listen, Phil, you are going to be the best in the world at WWE Championship.


1:31:29
Unknown_03:  Which I don't even care.


Unknown_01: It's Hogan time. I really don't care that much about the game anymore. You know, years ago I did. I don't care about it that much. Just say you love it, Phil. You love it. I love it.


Unknown_03: I play WWE champions. I take the viewers' money. I do Hogan pulls. Not only do I do Hogan pulls with your money, viewers. I want you to understand. I take your money and I recklessly bet it on football. All the time.


Unknown_03:  Like I am a gambler through and through. That's why this show is called the Kino Casino.


Unknown_04: I buy video games.


1:32:03
Unknown_03: If Phil is genuinely a gambling addict and he's losing all his money.


Unknown_03:  It's something that's actually kind of sad. It's something where these games are designed and gambling in general and casinos are designed to fucking rewire your brain's dopamine system. Josh knows with Bossman Jack what the depths of this gambling can be.  Like, you know, Phil isn't at that level. You know, he still has a roof over his head. He still has food on his plate. But I don't know if it's really like the most evil moral failing, because at the end of the day, the only person he's hurting with that is himself.


1:32:48
Unknown_04: Yeah, that's it.  Even if that, by the way, so when you buy games, like I buy games on Steam and PS5 or whatever, right? Like, sure, I'm wasting money, but I have fun. I'm enjoying, you know, like you buy things that might be a waste of money for enjoyment.


Unknown_03: You know, otherwise, why buy anything? But how many detractors smoke cigarettes?  Exactly. Or weed or whatever, you know? How many get scratch tickets from the corner store? Like, people in this world have a lot of vices. And this is where, like, us and Josh, like, we're talking about people that are actual, like, pedophiles or, like, degenerate, like, bestiality scumbags and shit like this. So it's hard for us. And Ralph.  crack down on a guy who allegedly has a gambling addiction and like with the wwe champions like i don't know how you feel about that josh but that's kind of my piece on it i don't know if you want to chime in yeah i mean especially because he does he doesn't like stream it i don't know phil have you ever seen bossman jack do you know who that is


1:33:20
Unknown_00:  No, no, I know he's, he's like proper into gambling, like proper gambling, like, like house games and stuff. And it's actually shocking to see like what a toll it's taken on him physically and mentally over like just one year. And all he does, all he does is like play like.  cryptocurrency slots and stuff. And the sad thing about the mobile games is that you walk into a casino and you hear the coins clanking and the slot machines and shit and you know that you're in a game of chance. But with the mobile games, they dress it up like you're just playing a game for fun. But it's all psychologically manipulative to get you to spend money.  And when you spend money, of course, it's not like going up to a teller and putting up $200 and having $200 of chips to play with. It's like every 10 minutes, hey, do you want to buy one chest for five or 10 chests for 10? It's like that shit is really fucking evil.


1:34:44
Unknown_01: The saddest thing and the most evil thing about it is that if you're in a casino and you're gambling money, if you win, you actually have a chance to win more money that you can use in your life. When you're playing these games, what did you win?  The chance to play the game some more.


Unknown_01: It's endless sinking money into the game. There's no outcome that could benefit you. You're just, you're stuck in the endless loop that you can't escape. And that's what I think a lot of people, that's what happens to them. It's that, I don't know if it's called the sunken cost fallacy.


Unknown_00: Yeah, sunken cost fallacy. I was going to say that. It's like you get anchored to this game just because you've already spent like, I've already spent a thousand dollars on it. I guess I might as well keep going. Right.  Just keep going because you got to get something, get that dopamine hit.


1:35:18
Unknown_01: You need it because you already spent so much. It's messed up. It really is. I can't believe that it's kind of allowed to be like that, but that's the world we live in.


Unknown_01: So was that down from the Raptors account yours?


Unknown_01:  No, it's not. It's really not mine. I do have another account, and I do spend money on it, but that is not my account. And they have been whatever who this guy is because people have asked me over the years. If it is you, you're the best in the world.


1:35:50
Unknown_01: I know.


Unknown_03: Why do they think it's you? You are the greatest WWE champions player to have ever lived.


Unknown_01:  why do they think it's him the origin story this is all i know is the origin story because they have so many crazy conspiracies after that i'm sure they have other the origin story was originally the account was actually called they call me dsp which happened to be my twitter handle all right i don't go by that anywhere else it's just my twitter account was called they call me dsp and apparently that account existed for like a couple of years and then my detractors found it a little  And they're like, we got him. We got him now.


1:36:28
Unknown_00: I remember this because the point of contention was that you can't change your name on that game. So it had to be changed manually by support. And they figured that after it had been found, you would ask that and they changed it on their end. But it even had like weird artifacts in the game where it didn't change everywhere. So it was a very suspicious looking name change. I actually remember this for some reason.


Unknown_01:  I at least being a player of the game, I can confirm you cannot change your name in the game. Like, I don't know how that's possible. I've tried because think of it. If I could change my name in the game, why not? Then, you know, kind of double protection, right? You can't you cannot change. I did ask support. Will you change my name? And they said to me, oh, no, that's not a feature available. Sorry about that.  So it sounds to me like whoever this person really is, because they were such a big spender, they maybe did a favor to them to protect. Oh, it's our whale. We don't want to lose the whale. So that's why they changed the name. But I couldn't even do that myself. So, yeah, I think you're right. I think it might have been like a behind the scenes deal or something.


1:36:59
Unknown_00: But why would this guy that set up this like troll account and put so much into it want to change his name?


Unknown_01:  I don't know, because here's the thing. That's actually what I was going to say. There's all these theories about who the guy really is. I honestly, at this point, I can't figure it out, and I don't care. Like, I don't know if it actually is a troll. It might be a guy who literally just has the worst fucking luck in the world to have the same name as my Twitter account.


1:37:32
Unknown_03: What would be the big deal is if you just lied and said you were down from the rafters.


Unknown_03:  It's so dumb.


Unknown_01: Just lie and say you are, and then everybody can move on. But then they're going to want to see it, and I can't show you. No, you can't. Don't worry about it. Don't show anyone anything.


Unknown_03: Never show them it, King. Don't show anyone any of your personal shit. No, never. Listen, at this point, just lie. Proclaim yourself the greatest WWE champion player that ever lived. There's no harm in it.


1:38:04
Unknown_01:  No, I know. But again, there's also no point because people are going to know it's a lie because we're talking about it now.


Unknown_03: Just lie. Just say it's you. You played it. Who gives a fuck?


Unknown_02: Why would I lie and say that it's you?


Unknown_03: Because then we can all just move on. If you just say it's you, just lie. This is much like Hulk Hogan. He never lies, but he lies. And it's just the same thing. That's right, brother.  That's right, brother, dude. He slammed the 900-pound giant in front of 100,000 Hulkamaniacs at Silver City Field in Detroit, Michigan, brother. Listen, he tore every muscle out in his back as he did it. Phil, at the end of the day, there's not one person who will stop donating to you because you were down from the rafters. There's not one person who's going to stop watching because you're down from the rafters.  They'll donate more. We practice it with this is a lie and just say, I have the down from the rafters account.


1:39:13
Unknown_01: Yes, it is me. I am down from the rafters. Let's go, brother!


Unknown_02: Let's go, brother! It's like a weight has been lifted off his shoulders.


Unknown_00: Hallelujah.


Unknown_04: Hallelujah, brother.  Hallelujah.


Unknown_02: Hallelujah.


Unknown_04: Now what, duty?


Unknown_02: Everybody bow down to the king. Do you understand how stupid this thing is? It's just like. No, it really is.


1:39:47
Unknown_03: That's why it's like.


Unknown_04: That's why it's like. You're like, Andy, you don't understand. He plays WWE champions. I'm like, is this game CP? Like, what the fuck?


Unknown_02: What is going on? Like.


Unknown_00:  It's worse. It's wrestling. It's worse.


Unknown_02: Wrestling is the best, brother Josh. We're going to go to WrestleMania next year in Las Vegas, dude.


Unknown_03: We're going to be there together with Phil. It's going to be great, buddy. You better believe it.


1:40:20
Unknown_04: Pause. Quarter of a million dollar man has gifted 20 subscribers. Holy shit. Thank you. And Tetra backs for 10 subscribers.  Big support. Thank you.


Unknown_02: Let's get some subs.


Unknown_04: Sub a horse for 10. Subs with five earlier, too. Thank you so much. Sub a horse. Big support.  um yeah no there we have it phil runs the dark from the rafters account he lied said he runs it we have the he's banning derrick from chat and you know a lot of people why don't you run it like side scrollers brother well obviously that wasn't very good it wasn't very effective the side scrollers interview people ask like why didn't you run it like that


1:41:08
Unknown_03:  Well, we can see that if you actually are just reasonable with Phil, that maybe Phil can work with you.


Unknown_04: Sometimes there's uncomfortable things you have to ask people or you make a joke about someone, but you have to understand how to be reasonable in the end with anyone because there is a way to talk to people, even if you don't like them or get along or have never talked to them and don't believe in their beliefs.


Unknown_04: But yeah, man.


Unknown_03:  questions for phil josh or phil do you have a question for josh well let josh go first and i'll i'll say something all right yeah yeah oh man i'm trying to think i don't i don't think so um because i think a lot of the the big questions are all about like the finances and stuff and if he doesn't want to talk about it he doesn't want to talk about it so i don't really have any kind of angle for that um i will ask this though you said that you know you


1:42:02
Unknown_00:  OK, actually, I have a question. So you said that there's been kind of like a turnaround. What does that mean for you? Like you said that things are turning around. Is that just like in terms of perception and people's amicability towards you or is that like a financial thing or is it both?


Unknown_01:  I mean, I would be very, very disingenuous if I was going to say, oh, I haven't made any extra money these past couple of weeks. I mean, of course I have. I'm doubling, tripling in some cases what I would make on a normal stream. That's amazing. But for me, what's actually more important than that is to finally be treated with some level of human respect. I didn't ever get treated with dignity for about a decade.  You know, like, I'm going to have a discussion with ReviewTech USA, and he says he wants to have a real discussion. Come to find out, oh, I can't talk with him unless I'm trapping him and having a conversation about all this fucked up stuff. You know, like, why can't I just have a normal human conversation with someone? What did I do that I can't be respected like a normal person?  Why can't I go on side scrollers and be a normal guest like everyone else? Why was I treated like some kind of a fucking criminal that needed a five hour interrogation instead? And that's what I feel like the turnaround is happening right now, where people are seeing me in a different light, a positive light rather than this negative attacking light. And that feels amazing. It's a huge weight lifted off my shoulders because I have tried so hard in the last decade to change as a person and be a better person. I feel like I've done that.  But no one wanted to acknowledge it because they just wanted to continue the meme of hate on Phil. So, yeah, I would say that there's a turnaround in more ways than one. And I'm really, really grateful to everyone involved, you guys and all the viewers and everyone out there, my fans who've been along these 10 tough years. It's all because of everyone. It's not just me. It's not, you know, it's just everyone together. It's amazing kind of the thing that's happening right now.


1:43:48
Unknown_00:  I mean, you say that like you, the way you kind of poach it, like this is at the end of 10 years. Do you feel like there's a light at the end of the tunnel that you're very close to at this point? I don't know if it's light, because here's the thing, and I've said this too.


Unknown_01: My life and my experience has gone like this. It's called, you get a big crest, a big wave of popularity and positivity, and all of a sudden, boom, you go way down. Now you're at the bottom of the valley of shit, right? And that's how my life has been. Like crests and valleys, crests and valleys. Right now, it seems like I'm on the way up.  Maybe that's good. Maybe it's not. Maybe things will change overall for the better, but I've been beat up a lot. And because of that, I do have this nagging feeling in the back of my head that things could turn for the worst. I don't know. Maybe it will. Maybe it won't. Right. That's a human thing.


1:44:26
Unknown_03: We had a question from Glib and I'm just going to paraphrase it, but he essentially asked like,


Unknown_03:  Do you feel like you've been living in isolation for a long time and kind of that you're interacting with very few people online and in real life? And since you've been interacting with us and other people now, how do you feel? Do you feel like there's been an opening up? Does it feel good? Yeah.


Unknown_01:  Yeah. Remember when I started on YouTube, it was the complete polar opposite of what I've been through in the last 10 years. Everyone liked me. I was the ultimate underdog YouTuber who blew up and I had tons of positive comments and people wanted me to go to conventions so they could meet me and shake my hand and I would sign autographs and shit.  And then when I moved across the country about 10 years ago from Connecticut to Washington, it just seemed like that was when all the crap hit at once that this is how you don't play. People started, you know, doxing me, started DDoS attacking me, got me swatted, false copyright strikes. And it's 10 years where it's like, I'm waiting. Will there ever be a break in this? Will there ever be a turn of the tides? And it feels like it's happening finally right now. And it does give me great relief now.  I can actually have open comments on my videos and on my Twitter because it's not a vast majority of shitbags crapping on me anymore. It's actually positive people interacting with me. This is amazing. It really is life-changing at this point.


1:45:30
Unknown_00: Do you – I kind of want to vouch for Mike Klum because I spoke to him about you. Because he reached out to me because he felt like – as you noticed, he was speaking to detractor channels. And he – after speaking to them –  He had come to the conclusion that they had an extremely negative bias towards you. So he kind of reached out to me because they all said, don't talk to Josh.


1:46:07
Unknown_00: They said, don't talk to that guy. He sucks. So he reached out to me to try and get like a more neutral perspective. And I think he was really trying to do you right. And I'm very disheartened because I didn't enjoy his other documentary. I totally agree.


Unknown_01: It's my detractors who spun it the other way. I've said nothing but positive things about my club. But you backed out of the documentary.


Unknown_00: Yeah.


Unknown_01:  You're right.


Unknown_00: I did, but that had nothing to do with him.


Unknown_00: Was it just like a, it couldn't do it at that moment or were you against the idea?


Unknown_04: You've explained this on our show before, but tell Josh what the reason was. Yeah. Sorry. There's two reasons.


1:46:41
Unknown_01: The first reason is, um, I felt like to do that documentary. That's something that I would want to do at like the end of the road. So it's like a cumulative thing and it covers everything. Um,  And I don't feel like I'm at the end of my journey at all. I feel like I'm 42 years old. I'm planning to do this for a while. I'm not in a desperate situation like boogie where I needed a turnaround of my life. Like he was trying to do. And that's really what his sob story documentary was going to be or tried to be. Um,  So number one at the point I started working with him And the more that we talked about it I was like I don't really know if this is going to be what I want Or is really going to benefit me that much And that gets to part two It was going to take a lot of time and work to do It was going to be a lot of filming A lot of different things It was going to mess with my schedule It was going to mess with my family life with my wife And to be honest I already overworked myself I worked six days a week full time on this  And now I'm going to have less time with my wife to be doing it.


1:47:32
Unknown_00: He gushed about how responsible you were with your schedule and how you would communicate with him about how, look, I stream for these hours and I will not interrupt these blocks of time for anything. So it has to be outside that.


Unknown_00: He was very flattering about how hardworking you were. And he said that if you're not as successful as you would like to be, it has nothing to do with how much sweat you put into it because you do put in a ton of sweat equity in your work.


Unknown_01:  That's a very nice thing for him to say. And I will just say this, like the reason it really didn't happen is because with the amount, insane amount of time and effort it was going to take to do that while also maintaining a business.


1:48:13
Unknown_01:  I was afraid that the payout wasn't going to be there. Like, who knows how this documentary will be received by the Internet, especially when so many people just don't like me. No one had given me the chance yet to be seen in a different light. People could just focus on certain parts that are really negative. And that's the only thing anyone talks about. I didn't wasn't convinced that at the end of the day, with the amount of effort and time I was going to put into it, that it was going to benefit me or my business or my image. And that's why I put the kibosh on it. But we had actually stayed kind of amicable.  And I said we could possibly talk about stuff in the future.


Unknown_01: I don't know what's going to happen now because no one's really heard from him for a while. I don't know if he's working on that EDP documentary or anything else. But at this point, I'm not really interested in doing a documentary because I don't feel like it's time yet.


1:48:45
Unknown_00:  Well, I was going to suggest that since things are looking up, you know, it doesn't have to be a comprehensive documentary. But if you're hoping to end that narrative on a more positive note, if you're feeling good about where you're at right now, where you're going, that might be worth considering. I just thought I would throw it out there because I was interested in seeing. Let's see where the journey goes. Right. And if it goes well.


1:49:19
Unknown_01:  Yeah, maybe. We'll see. I want to go back. Yeah, go ahead, Josh.


Unknown_00: Sorry, but you said that how long do you want to be DSP? Like just in general, like do you see like a retirement age? Like you're going to cash in an IRA at like a specific age or do you have like a plan for how long you're going to run it?


Unknown_01:  The thing is, as much as I'd like to have a plan, it seems like every time that I've laid out a plan in my life, something just smashed the fucking plan to pieces.


Unknown_01: Especially the job that I have is so unpredictable. You don't know what's going to happen. Am I even going to be able to be a YouTube streamer for another few years? Is YouTube going to change and I got to go to another format or whatever? The truth is, at least I know that I have a dedicated group of followers who've been with me for so long that I've been able to do it no matter what, whether I'm on Twitch or on YouTube or whatever.  I know I cannot be a gamer till I die, right? I'm going to get carpal tunnel, man. I'm not going to have hand-eye coordination to fucking play in the Street Fighter and Call of Duty. But what I'd like to do is branch out and do different things, which it looks like I'm actually doing right now, and have the ability to do different kinds of commentary on different things, whether it's the news, whether it's politics, whether it's whatever.  just commenting over videos like you guys do, you know? And I think that that potential is there because I really haven't dabbled in it that much. I've just been doing gaming, gaming, gaming for so long. I don't want to be a full-time streamer forever, but I would like to have at some point at least maintain some kind of a following on the internet because I love it so much.  I absolutely love this job. I don't want to lose that connection that I have with my audience and be able to have meaningful conversations and hangout sessions. I just don't think I can do it full-time forever. It's going to get to the point I'm too old. Who wants to see the 70-year-old crotchety dude trying to play Street Fighter and can't even push the buttons?


1:50:59
Unknown_00: I mean, there was a 70-year-old guy playing RuneScape at a point.


Unknown_01:  That is true. I do know about that guy. Yes. So, but yeah, like long-term, I want to keep doing it as long as I can. And then when I see signs, I can't maybe, you know, but the thing is, hopefully if there's a turnaround and there's positivity and I have money and I can have savings and I can have retirement funds now, that thing can happen. You know, I can eventually say, okay, I don't have to do it till I die. But, you know, I haven't had that opportunity in many years of going through that bankruptcy and all this shit going on. Now it looks like things are turning around and maybe, like I said, when I say this is life-changing, that's not an exaggeration. That's an actual statement of fact.


1:51:33
Unknown_00:  Let me tell you my favorite videos that you've ever done. There are a couple that stand out and none of them have anything to do with like, well, I mean the, the street fighter videos where you got angry are very funny, but my favorite video you've ever done is the unboxing of final fantasy 13. Do you know what? Everyone loves this video.


Unknown_00: That in the cooking videos, I miss, um, I miss the cooking with the King. Um, that was way back. No, no, no, no, no.  poorly cooking with the king you have to add that in there because that was the whole idea is that it was me being a dunce trying to cook and you know making terrible food yeah i mean that was it was very funny because you were like you had like a camera on one hand and we're trying to open like cans with the other and it was just like a tragedy


1:52:21
Unknown_01:  Probably the reason I ran out and bought a tripod for the first time. For the cooking streams.


Unknown_04: Josh, you have to watch him cooking the noodles in the cup. The cup noodles with the spoon. The cup noodles. Instead of boiling the water, he uses the hot water from the water cooler.


Unknown_04:  Yeah, and the spoon.


Unknown_00: He's like, why is it so hard? Did you see the bacon grease one where he just flushes that shit? Not my problem. I didn't know.


1:52:56
Unknown_02: I was an idiot. I didn't know what the hell I was doing.


Unknown_02: When I started on YouTube, I was just fucking around. I didn't know what the fuck I was doing. I didn't do anything and get views on it, right? Fucking stupidity.


Unknown_03:  I want to say one other thing. Can we all just agree? Fuck the IRS. Fuck them. Dude. Fuck the IRS. I know, Phil, you know, you would never, ever scam the IRS. No, but if you did, it was fucking.


Unknown_00: It's righteous. 800 and 650.


Unknown_00:  uh 865 billion dollar a year budget with a return on investment of one to six fifteen percent or more of every dollar you send to the irs is used to tax you fifteen percent waste every dollar sent for the privilege of being taxed so that the majority of that money can go to social welfare programs that do not do anything for our country and then they take out loans and it just sinks us deeper and deeper forever  As far as I'm concerned, anyone who gets away with not giving money to the IRS is enriching our entire planet for a better future.


1:53:53
Unknown_03: Tax-free, bitch! Tax-free! Tax-free! He's the king. He's tax-free, baby! Let's go!


Unknown_01: I do have one final thing I'd like to say to Josh because I know we're at the end of our time now. Hell yeah. So, Josh, first of all, thanks for having the conversation.  I know we're never going to agree on certain points, right? I have this morality. I think there's things there that you shouldn't have on the site. You're going to always have them there. But to be able to come together and have a civil conversation is meaningful, I think, to everyone. I think everyone who watched this probably learned something and got something out of it. And that's what it's really all about, right? But I will say this. I feel like, I know this is another silly analogy. I like to make a lot of silly analogies. In a lot of ways, I kind of see you like Dr. Frankenstein.  okay and what i mean by that is with kiwi farms you had a good intention you want to figure out a way to create life from death this is going to change humanity right people will be able to live forever if i can perfect this technology if only and then the lightning bolt came down and when the dude got up destroying everything around him and everything's getting smashed and fucked up well you know how that story ends right


1:55:14
Unknown_00:  everyone dies right yeah he kills the creator so if I get killed by my creation you'll be that's what I mean this is what scary is like speaking to existence here yeah yeah I hope I hope


Unknown_01:  That you're at a point in your life. Like you said, I think you said you were 30 years old. You're at a point in your life when you're going to realize, at least from my perspective, that it's just not worth it. And that you'll be able to put down the monster before the monster puts you down. I really hope that because it doesn't seem to me like you're a bad guy from the conversation we've had today. I just think that we're at different planes of existence morally. And I would hate to see that site be the end of you or your happiness in life because you let it go too long or too far.  All right. I'm not going to be the guy who's going to come after you for anything. I'm not. I don't go after my detractors. You're never going to see a lawsuit from Darkseid, Phil. I'm not a fucking asshole. All right. But I am worried from the shit that's been going on that that's going to be the end of you. And at some point in your life, you may have to draw that line and be like, it's not worth it anymore. You know, I got it. I got to stop. And it might be the best decision in your life to do that and to kill the monster before it gets too late. I think you should think about that. I'm not saying you have to do it today or tomorrow.  But I think it's something you should seriously soul search and think about because it might be best for you and for a lot of other people as well.


1:55:59
Unknown_00: Well, my my perspective is simply this, that we are in an unprecedented era where the Internet is smaller and more insular than it has ever been. There is more traffic on fewer websites, and that is not good for the health of humanity as a whole.


1:56:38
Unknown_00:  And I think that there is an attack on freedom of expression and the ability to share truthful information on the Internet. And the only way to combat that is for certain people, which I include myself in, to say not one step back. Hold the line. Every single right must be protected at all costs.  Because if you don't have people doing that, and granted my realm is very small, just a gossip website, but if you don't have people doing that in general, you don't even know what you're losing until it's gone.


1:57:15
Unknown_00: And I know that the Kiwi Farms is just a speck in terms of the grand picture, but I think everything helps. Every little thing helps in regards to that.


Unknown_03:  Okay, guys. We appreciate having you both on. Maybe we should play Chain together. Who's got 30 minutes more for video games?


Unknown_00:  It's a bit late. I apologize.


Unknown_03: We appreciate you guys coming on, sharing your perspectives. They couldn't be any more different. You couldn't be any more different as people. But we were able to have a civil conversation about very controversial, very inflammatory topics. And, you know, I thought it was really good. I really, really enjoyed it. I hope you guys enjoyed it, too. Yeah, definitely, Josh.


1:58:00
Unknown_04: Really well.


Unknown_04:  Yeah, and DSP, we hope you got all your grievances out. And again, there are things you won't agree with, but I think that was very positive convo. Who knew, huh?


Unknown_00: Out of curiosity, is your talk with Keemstar with just you and Keem, or is it also moderated by Kino Casino? No.


Unknown_01:  It's just us. It's just me.


Unknown_00: Good luck with that shit. You know what?


1:58:33
Unknown_03: I think you'd be surprised. I think Keem's turning the corner on Phil.


Unknown_00: Don't let him talk you into being on Roll Call Live. Don't let him do it.


Unknown_01: I am the last person you have to worry about. Let me put it this way. I've been through so much shit in my life at this point that I'm the last person to get the wool pulled over his eyes on shit. I am so skeptical of this stuff.  So don't worry about that. It's going to be very interesting. I'm very curious.


Unknown_04: I'm very curious to watch that tomorrow.


Unknown_01: I'm excited. No, is that tomorrow? It's Wednesday morning. Wednesday. Sorry, Wednesday. I'm going to turn the stream on at 11 a.m. Pacific time because, as you guys know, I have some technical issues trying to get Discord working. Yeah, you're good. I'm going to work with my chat to get it working for about a half an hour, and he's going to come on around 1130, and then we're going to go for like an hour, hour and a half. Yeah.  As long as your hardware acceleration is off, you should be fine.


1:59:08
Unknown_04: But yeah, so we're looking very... Yeah, I'm forward to that.


Unknown_03: Yeah. Who knows where else the arc goes from here, but we're going to be gone for a couple of weeks. So maybe we started the fire. I believe I caused chaos. So let's see where it goes. All right, guys. Thank you so much.


1:59:39
Unknown_04: All right. We'll see y'all later.


Unknown_03: Take it easy.


Unknown_04: Take it easy.


Unknown_04:  All right.


Unknown_03: All right, guys. We're still going to do some more show for you guys. We're going to read the super chats here in a minute. I think we're just going to take a quick break. I'm going to take it easy.


Unknown_04: All right. Peace out, man.


Unknown_00:  Okay.


Unknown_00: Did I get super? I did get super. Okay, just real quick. There's like six of them. Oh my gosh. Should I do the green? Hold up. Let's do the green. As is tradition. Secret stream. Only the biggest fans. I can't even do the green because my background's wrong. Now I can do the green.


2:00:13
Unknown_00: Super secret. I hope you guys have enjoyed that. I tried my best to be... A lot of people just wanted me to be fangs out, but...  I don't really have as much investment, so I just tried to satisfy people. Thankfully, he was also... I think it helped a lot that he had...


Unknown_00:  grievances with me that he wanted to talk about because i think that made it more interesting and i didn't have to sit on my own uh haunches so to speak my own rest on my laurels so to speak and handle everything myself um show okay let's do this real quick sneedberg shine goldman for 10 says hail to the king dsp and his loyal jesters pvp and warski look you gotta do what you gotta do


2:01:09
Unknown_00:  Sneedo, for one, says, Bossman X DSP collab win. Maybe. I think that would be terrible. I think that would be the worst collab in history. The most short-lived collab in history.


Unknown_00: Casting Couch Crab for five says, Nice guest. I am Crab. Nice. Nice Crab, bro. Space Island for 20 says, I don't want you to shut down the board. I just need you to know personally, et cetera, was Phil's calling from the shower. I mean, it's obvious what he's implying. I kind of feel like it was weird that he said, well, I'm not trying to convince you to. It's like...  Why don't you just say that you're trying to convince me to? Because I know you are. I mean, that's how it feels to me. Sneedo for one says, total DSP board death. DSP board now becomes the boss man board. Total boss man victory. Now that is an interesting...


2:01:42
Unknown_00:  Interesting concept. I don't know if they would appreciate it, though. Baja Blast and Joy for Fires says, What differentiates Phil's detractors is that they're genuinely fucking obsessed and retarded. Low-tier God is a bigger piece of shit and by comparison doesn't get nearly the amount of shit that Phil does. I said this repeatedly. Low-tier God is black. And it's like with black true crime. It's like white people do all this weird sex shit and have all this intrigue. And then black people true crime is just like...  Boo got shot because Boo brought to work for the Cribs, but the Bloods said they don't like that, so they shot him in a drive-by. And it's like, okay, I got it. It's not very complicated or interesting. And Low Tier God is basically that. He's just a black guy. He doesn't pay his child support. Got it. Next. Red Eyes Black Dragon for two says, keep up the good work. Jersh, not another step back. Based and true. Not one step back.


2:02:15
Unknown_00:  Third World Aristocrat for one says, question mark, which angers and enrages me. Thank you. Koliadante for 10 says, Mary Shelley Frankenstein was actually quite eloquent and chill until people shunned him. She was a libertine degenerate pushing blank slate nonsense, but it's still perhaps salient in this case. I've actually never read it, but I know the gist of the plot line. I'll take your word on it. Thank you. DocsFanon for two says, in a way, I understand DSP's principle of not setting the precedent of punishing people off stream behavior. It's a tricky issue, even when dealing with obvious freaks.  Yeah. I mean, I understand. And I said I wasn't being facetious. I said, I understand your perspective. I agree with you 100 percent. If you do do this, people will try to hunt down more to make you ban more people.


2:02:52
Unknown_00: But it's a I said it was a catch 22 or a no win situation. I wanted to say my favorite word, which is zugzang, which means a compulsion to move. And it just means catch 22, basically.


2:03:25
Unknown_00:  But yeah, I understand his hesitation, but I don't agree with it. I think there's a point where you just got to do it. I think that's accurate. I think that's what it was.


Unknown_00: And the orange cow for five says, Josh, don't turn around. King of the list standing right behind you. It's too late. My closet is locked and I am safe. Don't you worry.


Unknown_00:  One more. Humble Guardsman for one says the farm stand based on true. It does. Okay, so that is said.


2:04:00
Unknown_00: I will be streaming on Tuesday as per usual.


Unknown_00: I do not think that there is anything else to close this out on.


Unknown_00: Take it easy. Bye-bye. Thank you for watching.