A Conversation With Caroline Farrow (December 16th, 2023) 2023-12-16

0:01:04
Unknown_00: Hello.

Unknown_00: I am speaking with Carolyn Farrow today. She is a Catholic commentator from the United Kingdom. She's a mother of two, and she has been relentlessly harassed by transgender activists, extremists, I don't know how you would want to refer to them, for quite a while. One in particular has managed to use the British legal framework to a frightening degree of success over months.

Unknown_00: Probably actually years at this point. I think it's been going on since like 2018 is like a solid court document Yeah, yeah, 2019. Okay, so it's a been going on for a long time Carolyn

0:01:36
Unknown_06: Hi, I'm really nervous and I apologise to everyone for my British accent. So, yeah, no, so I don't really know how to start, really. I mean, I suppose it starts from 2019. And the reason that I'm talking to Josh is because Kiwi Farms has played an integral role in this story. You know, when I first came across the Kiwi Farms, I was like, what on earth is that?

0:02:14
Unknown_06: But I've grown.

Unknown_06: You know, it's become, you can't tell my story without actually mentioning Kiwifarms. And I know that a lot of people are going to say, Caroline, why are you talking to Joshua Moon? You know, he's this terrible reprobate. Why are you posting on the Kiwifarms? Which will hopefully become clear.

Unknown_06: But actually, I found that amidst all this madness, the Kiwi Farms community have been amongst the most supportive and have seen exactly what has happened as it's been happening. And they've documented it as the Kiwi Farms do in real time.

0:02:57
Unknown_06: And yeah, fantastic. They've just been super supportive. They've documented it in real time. And actually, they've been the only place on the Internet where this whole story and saga has been able to be discussed in any real detail, because any time anyone's tried to talk about it anywhere else, on any other forum, whether that's Twitter, which has now, under Musk's ownership, has now become a much freer place. But even so, you post on Twitter, and as my story illustrates, you can still be arrested.

0:03:40
Unknown_06: But people have wanted to talk about what's been happening. And the Kiwi Farms has really been the only place on the internet that's been able to allow for a free discussion because every other place has been shut down with legal threats and actually pretty baseless legal threats. But it's much easier if you're a website hoster to just take down the threads, to sort of acquiesce to legal threats rather than spend, you

0:04:19
Unknown_06: defending it so um and also josh i i was going to say i know that you know and i know that i have a rather dedicated band of uh trolls or a logs or whatever you want to call them um i mean you know from your end how how many people keep setting up fake accounts on on the kiwi farms about me um

Unknown_06: you know, absolutely obsessively. So I know one of the criticisms that I'm going to get is why are you talking to Joshua Moon? He's like, he's a, he's a paedophile. He's a sadistic paedophile. And because you're talking to him, I'm going to make sure that you lose your job and your husband loses his job because you're obviously You're really into all these terrible things that are posted on the Kiwi farms.

Unknown_06: So I was just actually going to say to you, Josh, could you debunk why everybody accuses you of being a sadistic pedophile?

0:05:20
Unknown_06: I mean, clearly, if you weren't good at what they did.

Unknown_00: We share a common friend. There's someone who I thought had disappeared, maybe out of shame, maybe out of remorse, He has early onset dementia in his family. I assume that maybe his brain had finally slipped away and he was just peacefully enjoying his time in retirement homes. But no, Samuel Collingwood Smith, who goes by Matthew Hopkins online, who styled himself for any British listeners, styled himself after a famous witch finder back in the day. who invented what's called the duck test, which was a system where they would test if somebody was a witch by dunking them into water. If they floated, they were a witch and they would be burned at the stake. If they drowned, they were innocent.

0:05:59
Unknown_00: Sam siles himself after that because that's his mentality. He accuses everybody, literally everybody that he does not like is a pedophile. He's been doing this for like... 20 years now, I want to say, and he's just never stopped.

Unknown_00: He's just found different targets. So this guy has managed to he's a muckraker and he manages to find people to believe him, which is unfortunate because the people just ignored his deranged lunatic ramblings. He would have no power to threaten people, but he does.

0:06:38
Unknown_00: Um, so yeah, when you, just to clarify, when you say that you've been arrested, you've been literally arrested by the British police because a transgender person alleged that you were using the Kiwi farms to talk about, talk about them.

Unknown_06: Yeah, I mean, it actually goes back to 2019.

Unknown_06: And I think it's such a long convoluted saga. And my neurodiverse superpower is I've got a photographic memory, so I can remember. everything in in pretty clear detail so it's probably best if I kind of start chronologically but yeah the Kiwi Farms was was why I was arrested for the first time in October 2022 and again in April 2023 and the first time Kiwi Farms really featured was

0:07:11
Unknown_06: When the transgender activist behind all of this, Stephanie Hayden, started accusing me of posting on the Kiwi farms in April 2019,

0:07:59
Unknown_06: And he made a big statement on Twitter that he had reported me to Surrey police because I was posting on his thread on the Kiwi farms. And he had convinced himself that I was this poster called T-M-Y-N-S, which I later learned stood for the man you never saw. And what happened was Stephanie Hayden had made a name for himself by being really, really aggressive with aggressive legal tactics. So he had gone around, he'd sued Graham Linehan. and got the police round to Graham Linehan's house. He had sued and threatened another transgender activist, funnily enough. He'd just gone round making all these sort of grandiose legal threats against people. And I hadn't really had an awful lot to do with him.

0:08:44
Unknown_06: Certainly, I hadn't mentioned him. Our paths hadn't crossed. I'd heard of him.

Unknown_06: He's he. I mean, where'd you go with this, Josh? It's just so convoluted. He hung around with this other guy called Dr. Adrian Harrop, who, again, was another really notorious transgender activist. And I have nothing to do with either of these people until now.

0:09:23
Unknown_06: I think it was the end of December 2018, and I'd posted something on Twitter about how gender ideology is similar to the techniques used by gender ideologues in schools. It's very similar to the brainwashing techniques of the Nazis or of the communists. And Adrian Harrop was so incensed by this he got hold of this tweet and he copied in, like, Vatican diplomats across, like, and it was really weird who he copied in. He copied in, like, the U.S. Vatican, the embassy, the U.S. embassy to the Vatican and every single high-profile Catholic he could think of to try and call me out. And what he didn't realize, and he tagged in the Pope as well, which I thought was hilarious, you know, Pope Francis is going to be reading his English Twitter feed and going to issue an online excommunication. And what he didn't realise was the thing that he was calling me out for was an indirect quote of the Pope himself saying, actually, the way we are indoctrinating children in schools is we're using children as ideological guinea pigs, teaching them that that they can choose whether or not they can be boys or girls. And we're encouraging them to snitch on their parents. And this is something that went on in Nazi Germany.

0:10:42
Unknown_00: So just to recap the instigating incident, you have you have three people in the story at this point. Well, not at this point because Sam's not in this yet, but I brought him up. You have Adrian Harrop. Adrian Harrop. I don't know how to pronounce these names. I apologize. I always thought that. That's okay. You mentioned Graham. I always assumed that his name was Graham Lineham, but that's probably not it.

Unknown_05: Yeah, it's Linehan.

Unknown_00: Linehan. Okay. Yeah. So Adrian Harrop. Who's the second? Who's the... Adrian Harrop.

0:11:15
Unknown_06: Graham Linehan, who's on our side, who's one of the goodies in inverted commas. You've got Dr. Adrian Harrop, who is a transgender. He's actually a male and he's a gay male.

Unknown_06: Doctor in with all the rainbow brigade brigade. He's he's an advocate he's a he's I don't really know how else to describe him he Doctorate in he's a doctor. He's an actual medical doctor.

0:11:50
Unknown_00: So in like surgery Is this the butcher that I've heard about?

Unknown_00: Is that a different person?

Unknown_06: No, but he's very good friends with... So he was very closely aligned with Dr... What was her name? Dr. Helen Webley, who ran this very shonky, ran a sort of legal version of what Keffels did, really. That's the butcher, right?

Unknown_00: There's one of those people that are known as a butcher. I'm sorry if I...

0:12:22
Unknown_06: no no to be fair to be fair adrian harrett's not but he doesn't do surgery he just prescribes uh the hormones oh okay so they do like intake and try to say like oh here's your your your your your medication for your gender issues or do they not work in ginger

Unknown_06: Yeah, no, no. So so he does.

Unknown_00: So he worked.

Unknown_06: He made gender medicine a bit of a speciality, a passion of his.

Unknown_06: And he he wound up with a thread. But he used to be really, really good friends. I think he still is. But he online he was. made a great show of being really good friends with Stephanie Hayden. And Harrop was a menace. If you were to Google him, you'd find that he wound up being struck off the medical register for a month.

0:13:08
Unknown_00: Oh, he's lost his license. Yeah, yeah.

Unknown_06: Only for a month because of the way he was singling out women and bullying them online. So there was one woman, he said, I need you to delete all your...

Unknown_06: You know, you need to delete all your social media accounts. Otherwise, I'm going to dox you. I'm going to publish all your details. And, you know, you need to learn. And she was getting death threats. And he was saying, you need to learn a very challenging lesson. I hope you've learned your lesson from these death threats. And he came out with some really dodgy things about death.

0:13:45
Unknown_06: It's how child marriage in Africa, you know, child sex in Africa, you know, that was just a cultural norm and we should all accept it.

Unknown_06: You know, we're all being terribly racist if we didn't accept little girls being married to adult men.

Unknown_06: He was just super, super creepy.

Unknown_06: and uh so so this pair um dr harrop and and also not to interrupt but like um with uh stephanie hayden does he have any any interesting history just in brief like what is it what is he what's his what's his background is he like a doctor a mechanic lawyer i have to be very okay okay so he um

0:14:38
Unknown_06: He steals himself the flying lawyer. He has a law degree, but he cannot practice law.

Unknown_00: So he's like, Sam, okay, just people outside the UK will not understand this, but in the UK, when you get a law degree, you're not able to just pass a test and join the bar like you do in the US. The solicitor firms in the UK effectively get to, they have to apprentice in their solicitors. So the solicitor firms in the UK effectively get to decide who their own competition will be. And as a result, getting in one of these apprenticeships is extremely hard to do. And there are a lot of people, including Sam Vordrick, who have a master's degree in law like he does, but cannot become official solicitors because their reputations are so bad. There is zero chance, especially at like a late age, they will ever be able to apprentice in one of these solicitor firms. So what they do instead is they become what's called a McKinsey friend.

0:15:14
Unknown_00: where in the UK and like in the US non-lawyers are able to give legal advice and help with filings so a lot of these not solicitors who have some legal knowledge but you don't even really have to have a degree to do this will become McKenzie friends which is just a very polite way in a lot of what I've seen for people to help people become pro se legal menaces in the court system of the UK.

0:16:01
Unknown_00: Yeah.

Unknown_06: Yeah. Kind of. So in the UK as well, you've got two different routes you can go in. Once you get your law degree, you can either be a solicitor, which does all the kind of admin and advises clients and solicitors tend to do stuff like.

Unknown_06: wills and contracts, but they generally don't advocate in court. So a barrister is the person who advocates in court. So you've got, and occasionally you can have a barrister, normally you need a solicitor to instruct a barrister, but occasionally you can have a barrister who's direct access to Anyway, sorry, long story.

0:16:38
Unknown_06: But to do either of these routes, you have to do various exams after your law degree. And you have to, as you say, become apprenticed. So you get a training contract. So you get a solicitor's training contract. Or if you're going the barrister route, you have to do something called pupillage. So you have to pass all your bar exams, do pupillage, and then you have to be accepted, finish your training contract with the bar. So you've got these slightly two different routes. But as you say, in order...

0:17:10
Unknown_06: passing the law passing your degree and then doing the exams isn't enough you need a training contract or a pupillage um I I don't really want to comment uh on Samuel Collingwood Smith because I genuinely know nothing about him aside from the fact that he sent me a very a couple of very nasty unsolicited emails so I'm you know which which have been really horrible actually and and

0:17:43
Unknown_06: Yeah, they've been really horrible and they've really taken me aback. And he's really aggressive. He comes in, he'll send you an aggressive email and he'll demand you answer it and give you 20 minutes to answer it.

Unknown_00: And if you haven't answered it straight away, he'll then publish a really unpleasant blog article about you.

Unknown_00: yeah um the way that yeah he comes in he'll what he does he always does this he sends an email to basically every email he can find he'll go out of his way to find personal emails that aren't like your official points of contact and he'll put in like a subject like urgent accusations about you being a pedophile and literally murdering little babies and it's like then he'll have like this big paragraphs like I have found evidence that you stomp on little babies. I intend to publish an article about this. You have six hours to reply. Or I will note that you're non-response. You were not responsive to my inquiries. It's like, that's what he does. And it's entirely like a fear monger because in the gaps between these sentences, there's a subtext instruction like, cease your contact with this person. Like his accusations will hinge around. You're in contact with this person. Do you stomp on little babies like he does? If so, let me know. And there's like a subtext that if you, if you continue to associate with somebody or be a part of an organization or offer some kind of help, uh, that that's, what's prompting the article.

0:19:03
Unknown_06: So, yeah, he when he sent me an email, he he he gave me a couple of hours. And I remember I was actually at a medical appointment and and he copied in my solicitors as well. And he was saying things like, you know, could you he asked me if I got sexual gratification from looking at child torture porn.

Unknown_06: which I kind of, you know, it was a really horrible accusation because he said, because you post on the Kiwi farms, I can only assume that you, you know, do you derive sexual gratification from child torture porn? And then he, and I just ignored it. And then he went on to publish a blog, you know, and he took some of it out because I think he realized it was defamatory and, And he said that he was really, really disturbed and therefore he was going to make it his personal business to make sure that my husband wasn't able to act as a priest anymore. My husband's in ministry and that he was going to tell safeguarding and security. You know, and you begin to sort of get quite panicked and worried, thinking, you know, I've decided that Robin Farrow is not suitable to be in ministry and I'm going to see to it that he doesn't. And, you know, no doubt that he went to safeguarding, but actually. We have pretty robust safeguarding procedures in the UK. And somebody's wife posting on a forum doesn't necessarily, do you know what I mean? Look at all the horrible porn and stuff that's on Twitter. On every single, it makes me laugh because on Twitter, there's the most disgusting stuff that you see and you get tagged into some of these bots and things.

0:20:17
Unknown_06: So he was just like, well, her husband must know that she's posting on the Kiwi Farms. Her husband must know she's friends with Joshua Moon. Her husband must know that she's consorting with a paedophile. Therefore, I've decided and I'm going to make it my business to... Everybody knows that he's unfit for ministry because he obviously approves of her consulting with paedophiles. And for a priest, that's quite a scary and damaging accusation and potentially libelous as well. Now I've repeated the libel. I can't sue him for libel and, you know, life's too short.

0:20:55
Unknown_06: But I think, fortunately, we...

0:21:31
Unknown_06: because we have very good safeguarding procedures um you know people can't just uh throw about mad accusations yeah you know i mean it's like i saw goody it's like like the crucible isn't it i saw goody farrow talking to this person and this must mean really with private companies maybe with the church it's different but with private companies he goes after the like the ceos and the co-workers and they'll say like i'm gonna call your boss a pedophile i'm gonna call his wife a pedophile

Unknown_00: I'm going to go after her company, too, and so on and so forth. He's just obsessed. He's one of the most sadistic, obsessed people I've ever seen. It is genuinely shocking to me that in a country where you are literally put in handcuffs because you are alleged to post on a forum, and this guy, he lives in Hertfordshire. He's been there in council flats for years and years, and...

Unknown_00: nobody cares the government just allows him to do this and like they don't consider what he does which is effectively extortion and blackmail in a form of domestic terrorism uh they just let him sit there and and you know talk and but but he has he has some connectivity to adrian and stephanie because he's acted as as mckenzie friend to them right

0:22:46
Unknown_06: No, no, he hasn't. So that's why I want to be really careful. So you've given your opinion. My opinion is just that, you know, he sent me a couple of very unpleasant, threatening emails because I had posted on the Kiwi farm. So I am not condoning your opinion of him because I know obviously this will get back to him and he'll you know, send me a threatening email or he'll try and issue a lawsuit. So my honest opinion is just that he sent me some unpleasant emails which were quite frightening and I didn't like very much and I would rather stay away from him because I just can't be doing with yet another lawsuit. And also, Josh, I'm talking to you and I'm talking to an audience that probably already has a quite, you know...

0:23:25
Unknown_06: knows knows this individual quite well and has has formed their own opinion. So I don't believe I'm doing any. I'm covering myself legally. I don't believe I'm doing any serious harm to his reputation. I'm just saying he sent me some scary emails and some scary, threatening emails.

Unknown_06: And yeah.

Unknown_06: That took me aback and kind of I just thought I've never done anything to you, so I don't understand why you're sending this to me, but it was because you had done a stream after I was arrested and you had said, oh, Samuel Collingwood Smith has been acting as a McKenzie friend to

0:24:12
Unknown_06: Stephanie Hayden. Actually, no, he hasn't. He hasn't at all. And if you'd asked me, I would have said, no, no, Samuel. Samuel Collingwood Smith has never been a McKenzie friend to Stephanie Hayden. But because you said that on your stream, Sam then thought, oh. He must have got that from Caroline Farrow. So that was the hook he used to send his email saying, you know, Joshua Moon has accused me of being a Mackenzie friend to Stephanie Hayden. And he could only have got this information from Caroline Farrow. Well, actually, had you been talking to me earlier.

0:24:44
Unknown_06: Then I would have said, no, no, no, no, no. So Samuel Collingwood Smith has had, to be fair, nothing to do with Stephanie Hayden, but obviously decided to wade in when you mentioned him after your stream last year. But that said, there's been a kind of weird thing going on. And you talked about, mad on the internet recently, about the Jimmy Savile phenomenon. So Jimmy Savile was this famous BBC entertainer who everybody knew was a badden. Everybody knew. My mum used to say, he'd come on the television and my mum would say, oh, that man's so creepy. Oh, he's not right, is he? And after, and he was...

0:25:19
Unknown_06: national treasure supposedly Jimmy Savile and after he died it came out that he was a prolific paedophile and that he had abused all numbers of young girls and teenagers and he'd done it at the BBC and supposedly in various hospitals and this had all been going on in plain sight and the BBC had known about it and had covered it up and everybody knew and So there's kind of like this collective guilt going on in the UK. But at the same time as the Savile thing came out, there was another group of people. There was this other guy called Carl Beach, and he was a fantasist. He was a fantasist grifter. He should have been. He should have had a low-cal thread.

0:26:07
Unknown_00: What is a fantasist? I've never heard that term.

Unknown_06: A fantasist.

Unknown_00: Oh, infants, like an infanticidist?

Unknown_00: No, no, no, no, no, sorry.

Unknown_06: No, that's my bad, my British accent. So no, he was a, he was a fantasist. You can't use the word in the definition.

0:26:45
Unknown_00: I need an explanation. I don't know what a fantasist is.

Unknown_05: Somebody who fantasizes.

Unknown_00: You define it with other words.

Unknown_05: A fanaticist?

Unknown_00: Like someone fanatical about something?

Unknown_06: No, no, he was a fantasist, a fabulist. He was a, you know... Like an Alex Jones or a David Icke, like that?

Unknown_00: No, David Icke.

Unknown_06: Icke.

Unknown_00: Not David Icke.

0:27:19
Unknown_06: David Icke.

Unknown_00: Whatever.

Unknown_06: Because of me.

Unknown_06: Every day's a school day.

Unknown_06: No, so Carl Beach was this fantasist. Yeah.

Unknown_08: Explain what that means.

Unknown_05: Oh, for goodness sake.

Unknown_05: Fantastist.

Unknown_06: Let's look it up. A person who imagines or dreams about something desired. Okay. And what this guy, Carl Beach, did was there was a massive, in the wake of Savile, there was a massive sort of pedo panic that And lots of people alleging that there are paedophile rings right up to the heart of Westminster and the royal family. And, you know, everybody, it was almost like there's a paedophile under the bed. Now, the idea of a paedopanic.

0:27:59
Unknown_06: is very advantageous to those who really are pedophiles because they like to say, oh, there's a pedo panic.

Unknown_06: And as ever, the truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

Unknown_06: I don't know whether there's a big pedophile ring

Unknown_06: I don't know. I wouldn't like to get involved in that whole controversy because genuinely I have not enough information and opinion.

0:28:44
Unknown_06: But what I will say is from my perspective of being a Catholic, people often say that the Catholic Church was a systematic paedophile ring. No, it wasn't. Basically, it was a bunch of...

Unknown_06: What's the word I'm looking for? It's a bunch of pedophile priests who weren't, you know, the Internet didn't exist. They weren't all acting together. It wasn't an organized thing. Basically, you'd get some pedo priest abused children and it was much easier for the bishop to cover it up and move them on to a different diocese. than to face the problem head on it wasn't like there was an organized you know gang of priests deliberately going around saying all right you take this diocese I take that diocese you know and someone organizing it it was it was more sort of opportunism and a you know and a hierarchy that that didn't deal with it properly. So as a result of sort of the sex abuse scandals in the Catholic church and in the BBC and across society, people have become very, very aware and very, very sensitive. And in amongst all of this, this character called Cole Beach popped up. And Carl Beach made a series of allegations saying that he had been raped by all these VIPs, all these politicians, all these pop stars. And he sparked an entire police investigation called Operation Midland. And there was an actual witch hunt going on. So all these people that Cole Beach accused were all very publicly arrested. One of them, a famous pop singer, Cliff Richard, his house being searched was filmed live by the BBC. And there was no presumption of innocence for these people.

0:30:12
Unknown_06: And it turned out that this guy, Carl Beach, had made the whole thing up.

0:30:52
Unknown_06: And it turned out he was a paedophile himself.

Unknown_04: Wow.

Unknown_06: There was one MP called Harvey Proctor who was falsely arrested and accused and it was really, really nasty. One guy made all these false allegations and it resulted in, you know, this entire sort of industry almost of people...

0:31:26
Unknown_06: saying, oh, gosh, you know, there's a paedophile ring. There's this happening. There's that happening. There's the other happening. And as a backlash to that, you've got the one side of people saying paedopanic, paedopanic. Oh, everybody, you know, there's this paedophile ring going on. And then you've got another group of people saying, Saying oh, it's all invented allegations. It's all you know, this has all been overblown. This has all been made up and there was sort of these these two rival gangs sort of trolling each other on social media and And I think that Samuel Collingwood Smith was very much involved in the gang that was, I'm not saying he trolled on Twitter, because as far as I'm aware, he's never had a Twitter account, but he was very supportive of the group of people who were very sceptical about the idea of a pedo panic, which is why I understand he then began to advocate for an MP or an ex-MP called John Hemming, who had been caught up and falsely accused of some of these allegations. So to be fair, to be scripturously fair to Sam Collingwood-Smith, who I don't know beyond him sending me a couple of horrible emails, I think initially he was kind of

0:31:59
Unknown_06: sort of well-intentioned, but it's all kind of spun off the rails and it's all become like really, really personal. And I just sort of wanted to stay away from all of that. But he, as I say, he only really got into the Stephanie Hayden thing after you mentioned him on the stream. But I think he was aware of what was going on anyway, because one of these trolls was, So Stephanie Hayden had... Let's clarify, because I think you jumped in quickly to say that I was wrong, but he did join the lawsuit, like a lawsuit.

0:33:00
Unknown_00: I can't remember who it was or what the context is, but he is participatory in one of these, is he not? If he wasn't in the beginning, he is now.

Unknown_06: He's certainly not been involved in any of the lawsuits against me.

0:33:39
Unknown_06: He might well issue one tomorrow.

Unknown_06: But although I'm really trying not to be defamatory or not, I'm just giving my perspective and my opinion as I see it.

Unknown_06: He wasn't involved in any of the Hayden or the Harrop business. I think he did threaten... No, he...

Unknown_06: No, he didn't.

Unknown_06: There was somebody who threatened a lawsuit against one of Louise Moody, right? So she's another person that Hayden has tried to sue. And I think Sam was approached for help with somebody who wanted to sue Louise Moody. Okay.

0:34:14
Unknown_06: But I don't, to be fair, I don't think, and I think Sam was a bit like, I'm not really sure I want to get involved in all of this because it was just such a mess.

Unknown_06: So he's not, to the best of my knowledge, been legally involved. And I'm just being really careful, Josh, because I, you know, I really can't be doing with... Yeah, another lawsuit. So I'm trying to be balanced because this isn't, for me, this isn't really about Samuel Collingwood Smith, apart from the fact that he seemed to chime in and join Hayden. and I remember he wrote another blog post and he said is Caroline Farrow Erasmus of Rotterdam who was a poster on the site and he'd fed Erasmus of Rotterdam's posts through some machine that's able to analyze text and paraphrases and things and he'd concluded that he was sort of i don't know 60 sure it was me therefore am i is caroline farrow erasmus of rotterdam unless you have like a proper language model um you're not just using some free online tool that's not going to be you know evidentiary of anything besides what you wanted to say yeah so we've we've kind of we've kind of digressed yeah i'll just i mean i understand that you're afraid to talk about him because i don't know i would go i'd be happy to talk about him but if you want to not sure well i mean i mean i mean to be honest as i say he he sent me two horrible emails and they were upsetting um and he wrote in articles about you and your your husband too did he not Yeah, he did. He wrote a couple of blogs about me, which, you know, they, they did cause me alarm and distress. And I did think that they were, they were malicious, um,

0:35:39
Unknown_06: But I can't spend all my life reporting everybody to the police. And in fact, I did actually forward them to the police, because there was this completely unsolicited email accusing me of really heinous things. And I've got five children.

0:36:35
Unknown_00: I thought it was two. No, I've got five.

Unknown_06: No, I've got five children. I'm involved, you know, in the church. I play the organ in church and things. So actually trying to claim that I have some sort of sexual interest in children was really, really upsetting and really got to me.

Unknown_04: I think to most people it is.

Unknown_06: and I thought how can you not think that that's malicious how can you not have a bit of perspective I mean the thing is I really want to switch back to Hayden and stuff now but I'll just say you gave him the benefit of the doubt so he has good intentions but he's swept up he knows what he's doing it's not an accident he knows exactly what he's doing just to be clear

0:37:24
Unknown_00: Um, and you know, and if I hope he doesn't issue a lawsuit, cause I'm literally, this is, this is honest opinion.

Unknown_06: Uh, you know, based, this is honest opinion based on experience, uh, that, yeah, it's, you know, I haven't said anything defamatory. So, um, and, and if he, if he issues a lawsuit, then I'll just have to deal with it, but I'd really not rather not have the hassle. Okay.

Unknown_00: Um, so the initial incident with Hayden was, um,

Unknown_00: was you wrote an article about, just to recap, so we can go back to the starting position. The original issue with Hayden was that you had said, you had written an article comparing gender ideology to other forms of historical indoctrination. you quoted the Pope Hayden went off on a huge tangent to try and get you in your, I guess also your husband removed from, from. Yeah. Yeah.

0:38:10
Unknown_06: Well, well, so what happened was I wrote this, this, this tweet criticizing gender ideology, Adrian Harrop jumped on it. Uh, and I laughed at him and then it kind of all went and said, I'm going to report it. I'm going to, you know, report it to, to, to the Pope and to everybody. And, and we just laughed, uh, And it all then went quiet, 2018.

Unknown_06: Then round about February 2019, Kate Scottow got arrested. So Kate Scottow is another mother. She's a mother of two.

0:38:50
Unknown_06: She had called Hayden a pig in a wig.

Unknown_06: And she got arrested.

Unknown_04: Was this on Twitter or...?

Unknown_06: Yeah, on Twitter. So she'd called Hayden a pig in a wig and some other names. And she had apparently agreed not to talk about Hayden because he'd already threatened her. And so under an assumed name, she called him a pig in a wig. He...

Unknown_06: discovered it was her and he called up Hertfordshire Police Force and a big police van comes and arrests Kate in front of her. She was literally had a baby in arms. She's breastfeeding her baby and she

0:39:30
Unknown_06: and she's got a daughter who was who's autistic as well and she gets arrested by all these police in front of her family it's a Saturday afternoon put in a cell and questioned and her treatment was so bad I mean she was she was on her she was on her period as she said and they're supposed to you know give you feminine hygiene products and they didn't so they sort of left her there to to free bleed in a cell and when she was questioned she couldn't quite believe how absurd it was that this was happening and so she didn't she didn't have a solicitor with her because she just thought she could explain it all away but she was also as well doing her master's degree I think it was in

0:40:26
Unknown_06: criminal psychology, I think.

Unknown_06: And they took her laptop with all her notes and everything on so she couldn't complete her degree. And this caused a massive media storm. So I remember she put her story on Mumsnet.

Unknown_06: And I remember being so shocked, and I didn't know Kate at all. I screenshot it and put it on my Twitter feed and said, I can't believe this has happened. And it went kind of really viral. And then a few days later, the Daily Mail picked it up, and it went super viral. And even Donald Trump's son, Donald Jr., reposts it. So it really goes viral.

0:40:58
Unknown_06: And then we learned that it was Stephanie Hayden that was behind it.

Unknown_06: The Daily Mail published an article and Hayden then sues the Daily Mail because it's harassment and defamation that how they published the article, you know, naming him. And he'd already, as well, been, he tried to sue Mumsnet. So there was a big thread on Hayden on Mumsnet. And on this thread, somebody came onto this thread and said, and posted a transcript of a court case. And this court case showed, you asked about Hayden's background, it showed Hayden's background. namely that he had got convictions for fraud, assault, he'd hit a man about the head with a golf club in a row about a parking space, and indecent assault on a male. And this was published on this thread on Mumsnet in 2018.

0:41:42
Unknown_06: So there was this big online noise about Hayden because he'd gone around getting women arrested.

Unknown_06: Various illegal publication had put that he'd hit a man around the head with a golf club. Graham Linehan had allegedly doxed him and said what his dead name was.

0:42:21
Unknown_06: So there was all, you know, and now he's going around getting women arrested. So there was a lot of online noise about, you know, this really annoying transgender male who's going around suing Mumsnet, getting the police on Graham Linehan. Now he's got a woman arrested. And people at Mumsnet began digging and they discovered that basically Hayden had never really had a job. He...

Unknown_06: I think he'd originally got a degree in politics and he seems to have been, I don't know, sort of drifting, really doing all these different court cases by himself, because at that point he didn't have a law degree and he seemed to go around doing all kinds of.

0:43:13
Unknown_06: Again, I don't want to be defamatory, but from what we've heard, interesting activity, setting up company after company and then dissolving them. So whenever he'd set up a company, he'd never file any accounts. And then he'd set up, he'd dissolve it. And then he'd set up another fat company, never file any accounts, dissolve it. And it was believed he was doing this to get credit lines. And he seemed to be dabbling a lot in tenancy law.

Unknown_06: And then round about 2009, 2010. No, I think it's later than that. Sorry. Probably about 2013, 2014. He began doing his law degree as a mature student. And so people began digging up his history because they thought, who is this person who's going around causing so much damage to people? um and and legally threatening them so a thread on mumsnet was began and then his thread on kiwi farms began i think in february 2019 okay now so hold up just real real quick to try and sort out stuff because a lot of information it's kind of uh not anachronistic it's not like in order the um

0:43:54
Unknown_00: Who was the woman who made a comment about him? What was the original context of the original tweet? This woman said that he looked like a pig in a wig. What was the context of that?

0:44:35
Unknown_06: I think she was just being rude to him. I think she was just calling him a pig in a wig.

Unknown_00: It was just a conversation on Twitter. Yeah, yeah. What was her name?

Unknown_06: Kate Scotta.

Unknown_00: OK, so she was then sometime after, like the same week, I guess, arrested and her life was disrupted as a result of and she was treated very poorly by the police shortly after that. And then it went viral. It became a talking point in the US. And this is very this sounds very allegorical to Yanov. Do you know? Are you familiar with Yanov in Canada? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very similar to that. Yaniv had a lot of pull, too, and was able to get things yanked off Twitter constantly. It was crazy how much connection he had.

0:45:07
Unknown_00: So then after this becomes a news story, I imagine on both the Kiwi Farms and on Mumsnet at the same time, there was sort of like a discussion about this person and the problems he was causing, right? And that's when they...

0:45:39
Unknown_00: Or maybe I'm wrong and it was on Mumsnet first in the forum? Yeah, no, I think it started on Mumsnet in about October 2018.

Unknown_06: The reason I know this is because I've had to defend myself against a misuse of private information claim. And my defense was, well, actually, the information was already out there. So the thread started in October 2018. Mm-hmm.

Unknown_06: And then in February 2019, the Kiwi Farms thread started.

Unknown_00: Okay.

0:46:13
Unknown_00: And it was the Mumsnet thread that found about his multiple companies and his adventures as an adult student in the university. Yeah. And when was, I don't mean to bring this up out of context, but I remember that there was a newspaper clipping about him being charged for some crime. Can you talk about that? Sure.

Unknown_06: Which one? There have been loads of newspaper clippings.

Unknown_00: I know what I want to say, but I don't want to say it and be wrong.

Unknown_05: No, just say it and I'll tell you.

Unknown_00: I think he ran some kind of internet website about having sex with or taking photos of teenage boys and that was discovered. He got a charge for that.

0:46:58
Unknown_06: no no it was discovered uh i think it was someone on the kiwi farms initially discovered it he he ran a website it's quite quite sweet really but he ran a website when he was about oh gosh i think he would have been about 26 or something um 1999 uh about uh teenage boys that he found really sexy so one of them was um the guy who played Billy Kennedy in Neighbours, went on to star in House, actually, Jesse Spencer, is it?

0:47:34
Unknown_06: And it was, ooh, I mean, it was literally, it was like something a teenage girl had written. It was like, ooh, sexy Billy. Oh, I'm so jealous of all the girls that will get to kiss my sexy boy and see his sexy bum. Oh, he's my dreamboat. And there were pictures of him in his school uniform and, you know, bare chested. And he was clearly,

Unknown_06: And it was just very funny, like, ooh, he's heaven. It was the sort of thing that, well, in fact, I've got teenage daughters and they're too mature to say something like that. I mean, it was really, I mean, it was funny, but he didn't get charged for it. It was, you know, it was just something he set up. But he...

0:48:12
Unknown_06: It's transpired. And again, I'm not I'm not revealing private information because this was published by Redux magazine recently and it got over three million views on Twitter. There were four threads set up on Mumsnet, subsequently removed and also published on the Kiwi firms and all over Twitter. So he's trended twice on Twitter that he

Unknown_06: sexually assaulted a 14-year-old boy. So I think it was in 1997.

0:48:48
Unknown_04: So he was 24 and the boy was 14.

Unknown_06: And he the newspaper said that he on one occasion, he took the boy to a bed. He met him on a chat line, took the boy to a bed and breakfast establishment. And then on another occasion, he took the boy to his parents house when his parents were away.

0:49:24
Unknown_06: And he was charged and got five years on the sex offender register for that.

Unknown_06: Interestingly, as this has trickled out, so Mumsnet first mentioned that there was indecent assault on a male. So there was a lot of speculation for years. What was this about? And in a lot of his pleadings, Hayden has tried to say that the boy was under the then age of homosexual consent because the age of homosexual consent in the UK used to be 21. Then they lowered it to 18.

0:50:01
Unknown_06: And then they lowered it to 16 to make it on a par with heterosexual consent. So for years and years, Hayden has said, oh, this this I was in a consensual relationship with someone who was under the then age of homosexual consent. But actually, that's really misleading because.

Unknown_06: They were under the it sort of implies that it would be legal now, but it still wouldn't. And in fact, arguably now, he might even have got a stiffer sentence because in the light of all those pedophile and grooming scandals we've had, these sorts of crimes get tougher sentencing. And there's a there's a grooming. We understand grooming.

0:50:38
Unknown_06: far better i think than we did in in 1996 yeah i think in the 90s it was the the common theory even in law was just that you know homosexuals start at being sexually active very young so that's just like there was a the police would turn like a blind eye like kind of like with dahmer like jeffrey dahmer um he was with very young men and the police just sort of oh it's like a gay thing i don't want to deal with this and they ignored it

Unknown_00: Whereas now, I think, you know, police take relationships like that pretty seriously.

0:51:14
Unknown_05: Yeah, yeah.

Unknown_06: And I think...

Unknown_06: And it just shows actually how it was categorised. So then it was indecent assault on a male. Now, if you were to do that, it would be called sexual assault of a child.

Unknown_06: And we don't know very much about it because we've only got this contemporary clipping, although I think Redux got the certificates of conviction from the court.

Unknown_06: Is it Redux or Redux? You know the publication I mean.

0:51:46
Unknown_00: I would say Redux.

Unknown_06: Redux. Fair enough. So the judge, you know, Hayden has always said, oh, it was a consensual relationship. But the fact that he's referring to it as a relationship, you know, a 24 year old and a 14 year old don't have a relationship. Right. You know, that's a grooming, you know, that's an abusive situation. And he thought that the boy was much older. Well, really? I mean, yeah, I know all 14-year-olds are different, but most boys develop later than girls and, you know, Most 14 year old boys. You don't have to explain that it's bad for a man to have sex with a 14 year old boy.

0:52:22
Unknown_00: I think most people might have thought on your side with that.

Unknown_06: No, I know. I know. But so for years, this, this rumor has, has, has been doing the rounds and, you know, and it's been published on Kiwi farms for several years because he, anytime anyone, you know, so much as hinted, and ask the question, has he got this conviction, then he would immediately go and sue them. And he'd get injunctions out. So with two, two, two people later on, How does he win injunctions against people when the information is factually correct?

0:52:54
Unknown_00: Is that not a thing in the UK that true things cannot be defamatory?

Unknown_06: Well, I think it needs to be thrashed out in court. So he uses the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act. And the Rehabilitation of Offenders Act is to do with if you have committed a crime and you've served it and it's a spent conviction, should you have to disclose it to your employers? And after a certain amount of time, the argument is, no, you shouldn't. It's a spent conviction. So you do, I don't know, you get a drunk driving conviction.

0:53:30
Unknown_06: when you're in your early 20s, should you have to admit that to your employer when you're 35? For civil offences?

Unknown_00: Is the argument that they are making this public again and that impacts his employability?

Unknown_06: Yeah, well, this is it. So the law is... So there's a law on rehabilitation of offenders, which basically means that once you've served your time in a certain period of...

0:54:09
Unknown_06: time has elapsed, you should be treated as rehabilitated. But that doesn't necessarily apply in this instance, because if somebody has been convicted of something in a public court, and it's on public record, then it's always public. And the argument with someone like Hayden is that they are trying to build themselves

Unknown_00: A ten rip real quick. I think that in the UK, not every conviction is public, whereas it's the opposite in the US. Everything is public all the time, with very few exceptions. I think like, with children, they might close some cases out. But by default, everything is public in the US. And I guess that's different in the UK, where some cases are not public.

0:54:47
Unknown_06: Now, I think most cases are public and it's the same. If it involves a child, then there might be a reporting restriction around the child's identity.

Unknown_06: So you might have heard there was a famous pair of child killers who killed this little boy, Jamie Bolger, and they got lifelong anonymity orders. So it's the discretion of the court. But generally speaking, we have a similar thing. We have a principle of transparent and open justice. you commit a crime and it's reported on in a local newspaper or online you might not have to disclose it to your employer um but it's still publicly available and searchable okay but where where we enter a slightly legal gray area is

0:55:21
Unknown_06: whether or not uh publishing somebody's offense is defamation um now you can argue well it's not because it's true but it all depends on why you do it are you doing it to be malicious um you know are you trying to be malicious or spiteful or or and and you know there is

Unknown_06: It's a finely weighted legal test because obviously you publish somebody's convictions and it invades on their privacy. So Hayden can argue, look, if everybody knows about this conviction, this could make me really unsafe. I could get gangs of paedophile hunters come to my house, which has happened in the UK, to be fair. In fact, very famously in the 90s, someone who was a paediatrician...

0:56:09
Unknown_06: themselves with a vigilante mob outside their house because these dullards are confused at pedophile with pediatrician and you know so there is always the there's a very British story I'm just going to say that I know there's always the danger of vigilantism so Hayden would go to court and argue for an injunction by claiming that

0:56:59
Unknown_06: by by muddying the waters essentially by saying well this this person was under the then age of homosexual consent uh so not necessarily being clear about the fact it was a 14 year old claim that it was a consensual relationship claim that you know he's lived a completely blemish-free life ever since and this is really horrible and this will impact upon his privacy and it will impact upon the privacy of uh of the victim who's entitled to lifelong anonymity because you know if If this becomes known, then Hayden will have to come out and explain what happened and clear his name. And so the judges have sort of taken this at face value and issued temporary injunctions saying, OK, you are now banned from referencing this conviction.

Unknown_06: And it's never, in one case, the case of Bronwyn Dickinson... I'm sorry, that's obscene.

Unknown_00: Because in the US, you cannot sue somebody for the truth. You can sue somebody for harassment in a specific person, but you can't, like... You can never inhibit somebody from telling something that's factually correct. That's a little bit insane to me that such a thing exists.

0:58:05
Unknown_06: It is. And I think in the case of Hayden, you've got somebody who...

Unknown_06: Aside, I mean, it's interesting because since this happened to me, I've had so many people approach me from who knew Hayden 10, 20 years ago and tell me their story about how he financially ripped them off, you know, walked away with their money or they've had a terrible experience with him in court.

0:58:39
Unknown_06: And so...

Unknown_06: you've got all of this, and then you've got Hayden is trying to build himself a career and a reputation as being a media commentator. He has in his Twitter bio, I think, media commentator. And so he, and he appeared, or he used to appear on Russia Today. And they're trying to really, you know, he sort of got himself a niche, mainly on Russia Today, commentating on transgender issues.

Unknown_06: and therefore he and he would be arguing that children could consent to puberty blockers and things and he's also made a series of statements on social media talking about the age of consent and you know saying it's much lower in european countries so when you've got this issue of transgenderism and safety uh you know women argue rightly that it's not safe to allow men

0:59:39
Unknown_06: who identify as women in their bathrooms, in their changing rooms, in rape shelters, in domestic violence shelters, in sports, that actually sex segregated spaces should exist. And this is a whole issue of women's safety. You don't want boys in the girls' changing rooms.

Unknown_06: And this gives all sorts of pedophiles cover Here you have someone who actually has got a criminal record for sexually assaulting a teenager, trying to set the tone of debate, trying to influence policy, trying to make themselves a name for themselves as an advocate for transgender rights. Actually, then it becomes a matter of public interest because you're trying to make yourself a public figure and say, well,

1:00:29
Unknown_06: this this is why children should be able to take puberty blockers and the age of consent should be lower etc etc you know the public could easily argue, well, hang on, haven't you got your own personal interests in this because of your own history and your own story? And maybe Hayden could say, well, actually, you know, I think that he could make a case for it. I think that actually it's wrong that you should be prosecuted for sex with 14-year-olds. You know, I don't agree with him, but do you know what I mean? But he sort of wanted to put himself out there as a public figure to argue against things that impinge on women's safety, but thinks that his own

1:01:14
Unknown_06: his own backstory should be completely written out of existence and we should 100 accept the fact that he's a woman because he says he is um so i think there is very much a public interest element in it and secondly you know i have i've i've i haven't repeatedly brought it up to be fair um but i did bring it up in the context of he was producing me all the time saying caroline farrow's

Unknown_00: Sorry, you just get out. Let me see if that's Oh, okay. Everything's fine. Can you hear me?

Unknown_06: Yeah, I can hear you.

Unknown_00: Sorry, you cut out for a second.

Unknown_06: Oh, am I am I back on?

Unknown_00: Yes, the last thing that you're saying is that you had brought up something in a different context. Yeah, so I'm not interested, really, to be fair, in all the time saying Hayden is a paedophile or Hayden has got this conviction.

Unknown_06: However, when I was under sustained attack from him and he kept saying that I was the reprobate, he would say, oh, I had an ex-MP who...

1:02:22
Unknown_06: It was very controversial on my case, calling me mentally ill and this, that and the other. And Hayden was saying, well, I've never had an MP say this against me. I've never had a judge describe me in these terms. Gosh, she is a priest's wife. And look what a judge has said about her. And I just said, well, no, no.

Unknown_06: actually a judge has had plenty of things to say about you. And maybe that was on the 11 occasions, you know, he's got 11, he's got 11 convictions for 21 counts of fraud. He's got the conviction for, you know, a fray and hitting someone around the head with a golf club. And he's got the sexual assault conviction. So for him to be sort of putting himself up there as, you know, oh, I'm the great moral arbiter. I've never... To be fair, those are all charges very common with women, right?

1:02:59
Unknown_00: Violence, sex abuse of kids, and fraud. Those are typically female crimes, right?

Unknown_00: I've seen the UK crime statistics. The number of child sexual assaults by women has gone up by like 10,000% over the last three years. I know things are going crazy over there.

Unknown_05: Yeah, yeah.

1:03:32
Unknown_06: And so...

Unknown_06: In the light of who Hayden sort of advocates himself as and what he's trying to do, then I think that his criminal record is completely relevant. It speaks to the heart of his credibility because he has got this very colourful criminal record.

Unknown_06: There are so many people who claim that he's ruined their lives through...

Unknown_00: it's it's very weird to hear you make this very impassioned kind of legal-esque argument like of course we should be allowed to talk about someone's criminal past because it informs on what their motivations are for their current behavior like to to make that kind of statement to me it's just like duh

1:04:21
Unknown_00: I know, I know, I know. It has to be entered in a legal document. It was actually absurd, completely insane.

Unknown_05: Well, you think that's absurd. I mean, this is so funny.

Unknown_00: I want to continue down the timeline. So we're at a point where he's suing that woman. Say her name again.

Unknown_06: Kate Scottale.

Unknown_00: And he's just kind of like breaking out into the mainstream.

Unknown_00: At what point does he start to get involved with you? And who comes first? Is it Hayden or the doctor?

1:04:54
Unknown_06: The doctor. The doctor comes into your life first. Yeah, so I think first of all, it was the doctor closely followed by Hayden. And it was really interesting because he made some comment at me in January 2019. The doctor? No, Hayden was first. And I said something like, well have you hit anyone round a head with a golf club or something like that i made some quip and he was like you disgusting bigot are you asking for a writ caroline i thought right okay like a lawsuit yeah yeah yeah and um and it's inter you know you look at his history as well So before he got involved in transgender activism, when he was at Birkbeck, which was his university, he sued all the students there as well.

1:05:36
Unknown_06: They all got high court writs and were sued for things. He sued his former landlady and filmed himself delivering the law. You know, he really is a Yaniv type. He filmed himself delivering law. the lawsuit to her door and he posts on Pricebook saying, you know, revenge is a dish best served in a royal court of justice.

Unknown_06: So, you know, it's weird how how often transgender types are litigious, like especially pro se litigious.

1:06:14
Unknown_00: And so it sort of shines a light on how the entire thing is like these micro power plays. Like I get to walk into, your bathrooms i get to go into your changing rooms i get to take up your sports and i get to sue you whenever i want to pro se and i know just enough wall to make it very expensive to fight uh even without any chance of winning i have just enough experience to make it a huge pain to deal with without actually uh to prove a point or anything it's just it's just like this extreme level of like passive aggressiveness that bleeds into like a power and control fantasy

Unknown_06: Yeah, no, totally. And there's a real, there is another issue of public interest here. So Hayden doesn't have a job.

1:06:54
Unknown_06: He doesn't have a job. He's not employed. But he styles himself as a flying lawyer and he likes to post pictures of all his travels. He's always travelling to South Africa. Or he's a member of some fancy London club and he posts pictures of his fine dining there. Or he'll travel first class on a train and show you a picture of his marvelous meal on a train.

Unknown_00: He likes to show off the good life, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:07:28
Unknown_06: And yet, every single claim he issues, he gets help with fees, which means, so you and I, if I decide that you've been defamatory and I want to sue you, I have to put down 5% of the total amount that I'm suing you for. Really? Yes.

Unknown_00: Really? So if someone has caused you a million dollars of damage, you can't sue them unless you can pony up $50,000? Yes.

1:07:59
Unknown_00: That's right. What is wrong with you people? How did you develop a system that works this badly?

Unknown_06: Everyone says the UK for liable lawsuits and in some ways, but yeah, you have to put down 5% and this is to act as a sort of to stop everybody from suing each other all the time, to show that you've got a claim and that you're serious. And so

Unknown_06: Because Hayden is on various benefits, again, I'm not doxing him. I think he tweeted that he was on various benefits. And I know he said that he has anxiety and depression.

1:08:32
Unknown_00: so you get to waive so in the us if you want to there's court fees if you file something you have to pay like a couple hundred dollars just for the court fees so he's we call this informal paris which means as a as a pauper as a person of poverty and indignant person so he gets to file these lawsuits claiming a million dollars but then because he's informal paris he doesn't have to pay anything to do this that's right that's awesome that's awesome he's figured this out

Unknown_06: Yeah, so basically every time he issues a claim, there's a little code and it says HWF, help with fees. So when he sued me for like, I think it was between £100,000 and £250,000, he did not have to pay any fees at all. And of course, because he represents himself in court and he loves a bit of that, you know, it's a proper LARPing fantasy. I mean, it's so funny. He's there and he sticks his hands in his...

1:09:14
Unknown_06: you know, black blazer pocket, pretending it's a gown and talks about me learned friends to the other side. And you're just dying with embarrassment for him. It's awful. You know, it's real. It's really cringeworthy, you know.

Unknown_06: But yeah, he doesn't. So he doesn't have to pay a penny in court fees and he represents himself. So it costs him nothing. This is really easy meat for him. He just issues a claim immediately.

1:09:55
Unknown_00: Yeah, it's I mean, I've experienced this firsthand. It's really crazy how because of I mean, I'm sure this has existed before the Internet, but the Internet makes it just so easy to find like a random crazy person who has nothing better to do. who will use their position of absolute poverty and like having zero assets and zero future and zero credibility to just be like, yeah, I'm going to like dedicate myself to trying and cause this one person as much inconvenience as possible. And there's literally, there's no recourse to it. You can't like in the U S it's extremely difficult to get someone labeled, uh, like a Texas,

1:10:34
Unknown_06: Same, same, same, same. I mean, he sued, in the High Court alone, he sued over 40 people. Incredible. And that's just in the last few years. We don't know, because of the way things are recorded, we don't know how many people he sued in the county courts because there isn't a central register. So he could just, he's one of these people, I think, that he falls over in the supermarket or he sees an opportunity in the supermarket and he issues a claim and I think he sued a supermarket over COVID restrictions. He had a disability badge and he was exempt from wearing a mask and they made him wear a mask.

1:11:10
Unknown_00: Usually when you say that, though, it's like someone sues Walmart trying to get a payday for a hurt knee or bruised knee. But in his case, I'm sure it's more of a... It's an independently operated business and the owner is a woman and he just wants to drag her to court over and over again. And that's probably the impetus. It's not really the...

Unknown_06: I think that's the impetus with the people. I think there's two things going on. So I think he does sue big name companies because it's easier for them to issue a payout than to kind of, you know, do the whole go to court, pay the fees, et cetera.

1:11:44
Unknown_06: So I think he banks on that. But I think with some of the people he sues, like me, with Graham Linehan, he wants to take a big scalp. And he wants to change the law. And he wants to show how effective he is. And look at me. I'm this great advocate for transgender rights. Look, I'm changing the law and case law. It's very funny, actually. He has changed case law. Because he sued somebody, Bronwyn Dickinson, for harassment for what she'd said on Twitter. And he raised the bar. The judge was having none of it. So the bar has now been raised so high, it's almost impossible to sue somebody for harassment on Twitter.

1:12:24
Unknown_04: Wow.

Unknown_04: Good for him. What a win.

Unknown_06: It was a massive losing. But because the judge said to him, well, she'd blocked you and you were going mining for a fence. And this is true. She'd blocked him from her feed. And he was looking. And it's the same with me. I've blocked him from my feed, but he was going looking for a fence.

Unknown_06: And this, you know, the tweets I got, which we'll get onto, that I got arrested for, again, I had blocked him from my feed. But the judge... Actually, it's now very hard to sue somebody for harassment on Twitter as a direct result of him constantly suing people for what they've said on Twitter.

1:13:06
Unknown_06: But he will go after individuals, I think, to take a big scalp, to make a name for himself, to get a bit of attention and to sort of show his mettle. I noticed there's been a couple of people recently that he doesn't like very much conservative news commentators. And he's been non-stop, Lawrence Fox is one of them, and Calvin Robinson is another. And he's been non-stop sort of tweeting about them, setting up hashtags, tweeting quite nasty and derogatory things.

1:13:39
Unknown_06: And Lawrence Fox hit back and said, you know, this person thinks he's a woman or something. And he then made a big thing. Oh, I've sent a legal letter to you, you know, and did an okay emoji. And it seems to me that he goes around trying to go to try to provoke people. And then as soon as he gets the response, he's like, right, I'm going to sue you. And I think he does it for attention. I think he does it because, you know, He wants to make this name for himself.

1:14:17
Unknown_06: And, you know, I think it's all part of his bizarre psychological makeup. He genuinely sort of

Unknown_06: I think he genuinely enjoys suing people, but I think as well, he feels vindicated.

Unknown_06: He actually feels that he is the victim in all this. How dare you? I can be as rude and horrible as you two I want, but as soon as you get anything back. So it's all about reputation building.

1:14:52
Unknown_06: As well as, I mean, he does enjoy going after women, I think. I mean, he's gone after me, Kate Scottow, Louise Moody, Bronwyn Dickinson. He's going after another woman. I mean, he does seem to go after predominantly women who criticise him.

Unknown_00: Has he only sued you once or have you had multiple? No, only three times. Yeah, I was pretty sure that there's multiple incidents. So the first time he sued you was in 2019? Has he sued you like once every year since then?

Unknown_06: Yeah, there'll be four after that. So the first time he sued me, so going back to 2019,

1:15:25
Unknown_06: He this Kiwi Farms thread set up and I wasn't aware of it at first.

Unknown_06: And I was fighting yet another battle because I had criticized Susie Green, who is the head of who was running this charity called Mermaids, which advocates for transgender young people. And I had been on Good Morning Britain with Piers Morgan with her and we'd had a debate about the Girl Guides. So the Girl Guides has decided that it will admit boys who say they're girls. And if you're in the Girl Guides and you've got a daughter in the Girl Guides and she's going on an overnight camping trip, your daughter could share a tent with somebody who says he's a boy and you as a parent would not be allowed to know because you'd be such a bigot that you'd obviously put a stop to it. So there was a big safeguarding issue with girl guides saying that anyone who said they were a girl would be accepted as a girl. So it would mean that you could have men who said they were women helping out with girl guides. You could have boys who said they were girls attending. And I made the point that where you get a teenage girl and a teenage boy, it doesn't matter how they identify, sleeping together in a tent, you could have a bit of trouble.

1:16:18
Unknown_06: And it was a safeguarding issue.

Unknown_00: How old are the people in this group? 11 to, no, I think it's 11 to 16.

Unknown_00: Yeah, there's actually because of this has been linked, I think, to the rise of Internet pornography. The amount of early age sexual abuse is going up. Like young boys are molesting young girls earlier than ever before because they are becoming sexually active and exposed to porn like extremely young. So even at that age, there is like an unacceptable level of risk.

1:16:58
Unknown_06: Yeah, no, that's right. There's report after report after report showing parents aren't being sensible and guarding what their children are seeing on the internet. And young children are being exposed to porn and becoming sort of addicted and desensitized and sort of pornified at an ever earlier age. So I have this debate with Susie Green on Good Morning Britain about girl guides. And she was being really disingenuous. And she said, oh, trans girls are girls just like any other girls. They just want to be with their mates.

1:17:37
Unknown_06: And I said, don't be so ridiculous. And the debate continued on to Twitter afterwards, at which point I this is nothing new or innovative.

Unknown_06: I said that she was guilty of child abuse because. When Susie Green's son was 16, on his 16th birthday, she took him to Thailand and he had the op on his 16th birthday. He was on puberty blockers, I think, from the age of 11 and cross-sex hormones from 12.

1:18:17
Unknown_06: And I said, let's call this what it is. It's child abuse. It's mutilation.

Unknown_00: Castration, let me clarify. So the the mermaids organization that has these camping events you spoke to one of their spokespeople and no no So so the girl guides have the camping events and mermaids are an advocacy aware an advocate very controversial Party that advocate for trans you were debating with one of their spokespeople who was a natal woman who has a transgender Okay

1:18:51
Unknown_06: Yes. Yeah. So Susie Green, she's got a thread on mermaids.

Unknown_06: So she has a son. It's kind of like a Jazz Jennings situation. So from the age of 11, she put her son on television. She had a documentary about her son's, in inverted commas, journey. There's a horrible clip of her laughing. because with her mother because the son had been on because he'd been on these puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones there was no sort of penile and scrotal material to work with uh so they oh is that yeah jazz yeah jazz you're talking about jazz jennings no no no but this happened in the uk first uh this happened in sort of 20 so this is an identical story because i remember with jazz jennings it was when they they put the the little boy on hormone blockers they never hit male puberty so they never have a uh their penis doesn't doesn't grow to an adult size and as a result the surgeon does not have enough sensitive penile tissue to convert into like the the fake clitoris and the

1:19:31
Unknown_00: The new the neo vagina. So they literally they don't have the material to work with to create a sensitive opening. And as it's like, just it's just like a numb hole in the pelvis. And they're having like a macabre laugh about how gruesome this is.

Unknown_06: Yeah, and they have to use colon tissue. But what was really distasteful about this, in this documentary that Susie Green made about her son, she and her mother, so Jackie is the son's name, she and, he was Jack, now he's Jackie, she and Jackie's grandmother are laughing on camera about this boy's shrunken genitals and how there's not enough to work with and she was waggling her pinky finger. to demonstrate. And that was just so abhorrent.

1:20:42
Unknown_04: Yeah, exactly.

Unknown_06: I mean, it was so abhorrent. It was a real invasion of his dignity, his privacy. Um, and she's, she's given these controversial Ted talks about how, um,

Unknown_06: Her son wanted to play with girls toys at the age of two and the father was homophobic and didn't like it and got very cross and you know she knew from the age of two that he was transgender and. you know, thought that there was something wrong. And it's just like, if you're looking at your two year old son trying to pathologize him or say that there's something wrong because he's playing with girls toys, what is wrong with you? I mean, I've got four, I've got five kids. I've got four girls and a boy and my son is the youngest and having four older girls, he's done the full lot. He's, you know, picked up their Barbies or their dolls and put on princess. He's done all of that.

1:21:15
Unknown_00: And not once have I sort of looked at him and gone, Oh, Well, these moms, they really want like a special child. I'm pretty sure a two year old in particular will play with literally anything you put in front of them. I'm pretty sure a child will occupy themselves by slamming a cabinet door for an hour straight. That doesn't mean that they want to be a carpenter. That just means that that's what's occupying their time at that moment, you know?

1:21:51
Unknown_06: yeah so um so she she has got a lot of controversy so after this um he sort of heated debate on good morning britain i went on to twitter and i said you know she says that girls just want to be girls actually and this was 2018

Unknown_06: The debate wasn't where it is now. And I wanted to highlight to people exactly what it was that she was advocating for. So I said it's castrating, castration at the age of 18.

1:22:27
Unknown_06: Sorry, at the age of 16, on his 16th birthday, she had him castrated. You know, this is child abuse. This is neglect. Because I thought, you know, people think, oh, advocating for trans youth, it's all niceness and fluffiness. I wanted to say, no, this is the absolute terrifying, abhorrent,

Unknown_06: medical pathway that they want to take your children down. This is not just fluffy words. This is what this woman does. And actually, if you know somebody who's had their child given a sex reassignment operation at the age of 16, you should be very wary of that person and what that group is advocating. So she then reported me to the police.

1:23:08
Unknown_06: And in March 2019,

Unknown_06: I had a phone call from the police inviting me to come in for interview under caution because I had misgendered her son following an interview on Good Morning Britain. And those were the words that the police used to me. And I, as is my want, I put it on Twitter. Sorry, were you in a conversation with this person or were you just talking about the movement as a whole?

1:23:46
Unknown_06: I wasn't in a conversation, so she wasn't tagged in.

Unknown_00: Someone notified her of it, and then she filed a report on her own?

Unknown_06: Yeah, yeah. Okay. And probably, I wouldn't be surprised if it was Adrian Harrop, actually.

Unknown_06: I don't know that. And so...

Unknown_06: The police then wanted to interview me under caution and I put a Twitter thread out about it. And you might say, a lot of people say, Caroline, you know, why do you put these things on Twitter? You know, it's best to keep your powder dry. But actually, you know, is it because you want the attention? Actually, it's not that. And I've never realised when it went viral, I didn't realise on both occasions that this would happen.

1:24:21
Unknown_06: I do it because when you're being interrogated by the police for something you've said or something you've thought, actually, social media is the only weapon you've got. You want to tell people what's happening.

Unknown_06: You feel really alone. You feel really scared. You've got the institution against you. You don't know what's going to happen. And actually, you put it on social media, and it's just a way of getting support from other people and letting people know, hey, this really messed up thing is happening in the UK.

1:24:58
Unknown_06: So I put it on Twitter. It went viral and then it hit the front pages of all the newspapers. You know, Catholic journalist is going to be questioned by the police for misgendering.

Unknown_06: And Susie Green realized that she had misfired here and she withdrew the charges. And she said, I didn't I don't want Caroline Farrow to be seen as a victim. uh you know and here are these terrible things she said i don't i don't want her to be seen as a victim and i got called back onto good morning britain and told off by piers morgan and uh yeah you know that kind of died away but it was quite frightening at the time i thought goodness i've just published my opinion uh and and she's i've got the police on me for misgendering that obviously

1:25:48
Unknown_06: angered all the trans rights activists. So immediately afterwards, I then begin to get a lot of offline harassment. So we had a period of three weeks where I had pizzas delivered to my house, or fast pizzas or fast food, like eight or nine times a day it was really you know we didn't want to open the door it it became overwhelming and we phoned just eat it turned out the orders were being put in through just eat uh just eat put put a block on things and then uh the people who were sending them managed to get around it by switching our postcode around, like letters in our postcode, or they were ordering it in different people's names. And it was food that was ordered and not paid for. So you'd get some irate Indian delivery driver, you know, with 85 pounds worth of curry wanting you to pay.

1:26:27
Unknown_06: And you'd have to say, look, I'm really sorry. And, you know, it was really it was a form of harassment. I started getting someone published my email on the net and I started getting like so many spam emails. I had my account deleted. I had my name and my photo and accounts made for me on Pornhub. I was receiving letters from around the world sent to my address and talking about my family members, naming my dad, who was 79. I had people drawing pictures of my children. They got off Facebook. People accusing me of child abuse because I posted a picture of my toddler eating birthday cake in their high chair with no top on. They said, oh, naked pictures of children. And I just, we had this period, Josh, of just

1:27:08
Unknown_06: I can't describe, just nonstop, nonstop real life abuse, harassment. You know, we had sex toys ordered to the church.

1:27:49
Unknown_06: You know, my picture put on Pornhub, an account made for me on Pornhub. My children's names were signed up to transgender teen forums. And it became really, really, really overwhelming. And I had something of a mini breakdown because I just, you know, I just wanted it to stop. um and i you know i didn't handle it well because i was very vocal about what was happening saying oh this is so awful so this thread then got set up to support me on mumsnet saying oh my goodness have you seen what's happening to caroline farrow this is terrible and at the same time there was a blog set up um that was posting about me 50 times a day it posted death threats rape threats it docks to my children's schools um it You know, it boasted about ringing up my husband. It told people it looked up the parish newsletter. It told people where my husband was going to be at any one given time if we wanted to go in a costume about his terrible wife.

1:28:35
Unknown_06: So Mumsnet set up a support thread about me or someone did saying, I just want to say, Caroline, this is really horrible. This needs to be stopped. And I kid you not, within a 48 hour period,

Unknown_06: Stephanie Hayden went onto that forum and posted over a hundred times.

Unknown_06: And not only did he post on Mumsnet, on the thread about me, he went in and posted a hundred times. And then he started setting up other threads about me and what a liar I am and how awful. And at this point, I hadn't really had much to do with him. So I was like, this is so odd, you know. And he actually then got banned from Mumsnet as a result of his trolling of me in March 2019. They banned him.

1:29:14
Unknown_06: And that obviously sort of set him off.

Unknown_06: So then as a result of that, every single day he was tweeting about me. He was setting up hashtags with my name. He was setting up hashtags with our lady of hypocrites. And it was just nonstop, just tweet thumping all the time. And a lawyer said to me, Caroline, I think you should sue him for harassment. This is outrageous. He won't leave you alone. So we got the preliminary stuff together. And she said to me, what you need to do is you need to say to him and Dr. Harrop, ask them to stop tweeting at you. Because then, you know, you've covered yourself legally. You've said, could you please stop tweeting about me? So I did. And Hayden then said, oh, I'm going to follow my...

1:29:51
Unknown_06: you know, my article nine and ten rights, I shall treat as I see fit, blah, blah, blah, and carried on. And he began to escalate and escalate and escalate.

1:30:30
Unknown_06: This escalation then got picked up on the Kiwi farms and people began to talk about, have you seen his targeting Caroline Farrow? And one poster in particular called themselves, so they called themselves TYMNS, which I later learned was The Man You Never Saw. And it began posting stuff about Hayden and Harrop.

Unknown_06: And they decided that that poster was me.

1:31:05
Unknown_06: It wasn't me. And there are a number of reasons you could know it wasn't me. Firstly, because when it was posting, you know, I was doing other stuff. Secondly, the sort of language it used. OK, so I can swear a bit, you know, I can F and I can B. But one thing that I don't do is I never blaspheme. You know, if I say if I say Jesus Christ, then I'm talking about our Lord and Savior. I would never take the Lord's name in vain.

Unknown_06: Just no, it's a complete anathema.

1:31:36
Unknown_06: I never do it orally and I never do it in written speech either. So this poster posted a lot of blasphemy and it set up this account called Troon of the Bailey.

Unknown_06: You know what a troon is. And it was a it was a joke because in the UK in the 1980s, there was this series about this high flying lawyer called Rumpole of the Bailey.

Unknown_06: And so troon of the Bailey was sort of this joke. And so Hayden decided that I was troon of the Bailey.

1:32:12
Unknown_06: And the reason that he decided this was because this person had criticised this, someone called Pippa Bunce, who is another well-known transgender person in the UK. Pippa, Pips Bunce, who works for Credit Suisse First Boston, and he's sort of binary fluid. So sometimes he comes into the office dressed as a man, and then he's Pip. And then on other days, he comes into the office dressed as a woman, and he's Pippa. And of course, you know, I'm going to say when he's, when he's dressed as a woman and we all have to call him Pippa, he doesn't wear what an ordinary business woman would wear to the office. He wears, you know, the Basques and the Rara skirts and the fishnet stockings and, you know, just looks.

1:33:00
Unknown_06: So this poster started talking about Pippa Bunce at, working for Credit Suisse First Boston and I used to work for Credit Suisse First Boston so they decided that I had to be this poster actually when I worked at Credit Suisse First Boston I left before Pippa Pipps Bunch started so we didn't our paths didn't cross Pippa Pipps this this guy and worked in IT, I worked in equity research, so our paths would never have crossed, even if we'd been there at the same time. But anyway, it wasn't me. But, you know, these people, they just sort of latch onto something. So Hayden began then posting that he was reporting me to the police, that he was going to Surrey Police. He had identified it. It was me.

1:33:35
Unknown_06: You know, I was well-known, the suspect's well-known to Surrey Police. And him and Harrop start making all these jokes in the lead up to this period about they're going to come to my house. They're playing golf in Surrey near me. They're going down the A3. They're going to have a quick nine holes at Westminster Cathedral, which is obviously the UK's premier Catholic cathedral. You know, it's a capital cathedral. How they're going to go to Westminster Cathedral and then go to Surrey and enjoy nine holes and play golf.

1:34:13
Unknown_06: And they talked about the A3, which is the road leading to my house. And there were lots of jokes, banter about coming to my house. And I began to get really quite worried because I'd had all this offline harassment. I'd had this blog threatening that Hayden was going to come around my house, that there was going to be a lawsuit. I'd better wear my best knickers. I'm going to be nailed to the wall of the Royal Court of Justice and fucked. um you know literally and it kept talking about wear my knickers and you're going to shit yourself and and you know but don't worry pharaoh no one would rape you you've got the sexual qualities of a bucket of slime you know all this kind of stuff so anonymous account you said yeah it was a blog um cool it was a blog site called tombstone teeth And it kept talking about how Hayden's going to come around. Hayden's not afraid to stand. You know, Hayden's not afraid to sue you. Hayden's going to come around your house. You're going to get a big surprise. And I began to absolutely panic. And what do I do when I panic? I spurge. I re, whatever.

1:34:48
Unknown_06: You know, hands up. So I began to get really worried because he was escalating and escalating, saying he was reporting me to police. On Easter Sunday, he said, oh, game, set and match, my sorry stalker, you piece of shit. You know, I was like, what? It's Easter Sunday and you're, you know, I've got you. I've got every jot and tittle and apostrophe. And I was like, this is ridiculous. And then the next thing I know...

1:35:40
Unknown_06: A week after Easter, he comes around my house in person to deliver me the lawsuit.

Unknown_06: And it was all pre-planned. So he goes off to the Royal Courts of Justice in the morning and says, Caroline Farrow is harassing me so badly on Twitter. I need an injunction. She needs to be stopped.

1:36:13
Unknown_06: And fortunately, the judge said, well, no, I'm not going to give you an injunction. She can come and answer in person. So on the Monday... He gets this lawsuit. He could have got a process server to deliver it. But no, he comes to my house. Adrian Harrop live tweets the fact that he's coming to my house.

Unknown_06: And they did it in sort of vague language. I used to be cabin crew. So they talked about cabin crew, 10 minutes to landing, you know, and I was saying to my husband, oh, my goodness, I think they're coming to the house. Oh, and he was like, Caroline, don't be so stupid. Don't be silly. You know, they're just big boys waving their bits and pieces about that. You know, they wouldn't come here. They're not that stupid. And of course, you

1:36:51
Unknown_06: He came round.

Unknown_06: And in fact, it turned out he'd come round and I wasn't in.

Unknown_06: And then, in fact, funnily enough, I was buying a computer. I just got a new job and I needed to buy a computer for my new job. So he came in. We weren't there. Then we had to go and pick up the kids from school about 445. I'm sat in the office. There's ring, ring, ring on the door. And it's him.

1:37:24
Unknown_06: And Robin says, it's Stephanie Hayden. He's here. He wants to give you a lawsuit. And I said, no, I'm not answering. I'm just not going. I'm not going. Tell him to give it to you. So Robin said, well, can you give it to me, please? And he said, no, no, it has to be handed to Ms. Farrow directly. And it turns out that's a complete lie. No, it doesn't.

Unknown_06: And I refused to go. I just went and took my camera phone and I took loads of pictures of him and stood there at my door.

Unknown_06: um and eventually he went away uh and i was so traumatized josh i refused to pick it up you know i just thought if i don't pick this up this isn't real and it was like robin had to go and retrieve it a few hours later because it was blowing around the car park

1:38:11
Unknown_06: And what was really funny was, I don't know if you saw, but we have a sacristan who's this very spry 85-year-old lady. And she saw him as well. She's going, oh, Caroline, did you see? I was like, yeah, yeah, Maggie, I did. You know, this 85-year-old lady who's never seen a transgender person in her life.

Unknown_06: Yeah, yeah. So that kind of went around the village. Um, so, uh, we get this lawsuit and basically it says that I have to be in court. This was Monday night that I have to be in court on the Thursday. So he'd done it deliberately. And the blog was boasting, ha ha ha. You've only got two days to find yourself legal representation. You're going to learn an expensive lesson. Pharaoh, Robin's going to be writing the check and, you know, really boasting about how much money it was going to cost me. Um,

1:38:51
Unknown_06: So we go to court on a Thursday and Hayden plays some very dirty tricks legally because he knows how to. So the procedure is that 24 hours or the night before you exchange skeleton arguments, which is the skeleton of what you're going to argue in court.

1:39:30
Unknown_06: Hayden didn't do that. Instead of giving us the skeleton argument, he filed it with the court directly.

Unknown_06: And my lawyer said, well, that's a bit of a dirty trick. That's really bad. So we had no idea what his argument really was going to be. We had sort of like some... The exchange of arguments of formality, like as a professional courtesy? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Unknown_00: Okay.

Unknown_06: Yeah. So we didn't get his argument until...

Unknown_06: five minutes before we went into court. With hindsight, we should have just delayed it, but we thought we had enough and were ready. It turns out that Hayden said that I had tweeted literally hundreds and hundreds of times about him in this weekend period.

1:40:02
Unknown_06: And I sat there horrified, and my husband sat there horrified, like, Caroline, what have you done?

Unknown_06: And, you know, it was, I was just gaslit because I thought I'm sure I haven't tweeted about him that much. I'm sure I haven't, you know.

1:40:37
Unknown_06: And basically the judge said, well, what prompted this? And did anyone try and stop each other from tweeting? And we said, yes, she actually asked Harrop and Hayden to stop.

Unknown_06: And basically the judge realized that it was a bit more two way, but he didn't like the fact that I'd referred to Hayden's fat man hands. Cause I'd said, if he comes down here with his fat man hands wielding a golf club, he was like, this is terrible fat man hands. How dare she? And he,

Unknown_06: But he only issued he issued an injunction against me, but only only because only on the proviso that Hayden had to give undertakings to the court that he would not he would not post anything online about me either.

1:41:21
Unknown_06: So effectively, we were both banned from talking about each other online.

Unknown_06: But Hayden was desperate to get this injunction. He was like, oh, my honour, how about if I give undertakings to the court? How about, you know, so although he wasn't bound by an injunction, when you give undertakings to the court, it's the same thing. You have to promise not to. So he went to court to get an injunction against me and effectively got one against himself.

Unknown_06: And when I got home or a few days later, I printed out my entire Twitter feed and I counted how many tweets I'd made about him. And where he'd said that I'd made 250, it was 10. Yeah. Because he'd not given any schedule. He'd not specified it because he never does. He just sort of throws these charges at you.

1:42:00
Unknown_06: So then we had this period.

Unknown_00: I just want to interrupt.

Unknown_00: Lying is a really good tactic, I've noticed, in legal arguments, because I think when you deal with a lawyer, a lawyer is going to make assumptions based off opposing counsel that are like, okay, well, they're going to do this and this based off the truth, the reality. And then when the opponent is literally just completely okay fabricating things, whole cloth and lying to the court, which you presume they won't do because that is potentially perjury, but they just assume they're going to get away with it. It actually really catches competent lawyers off guard because they just don't factor that in that, oh, he's just going to lie throughout this entire thing.

1:42:34
Unknown_06: That's exactly it. That's exactly it. And it was really funny. The only thing that my lawyer had been worried about was there was this accusation that I had rung him up.

Unknown_06: And I was like, I haven't rung him up. I don't know his number. Where's this from?

Unknown_06: And I was talking about it outside the court to a journalist called Joni Walsh. I was saying, this is really odd. And she was like, oh, Caroline, this explains it. She said, I kept getting phone calls saying, Caroline, Caroline, is that you? Is that you?

1:43:23
Unknown_06: Basically, she had phoned in by accident.

Unknown_06: and he was so paranoid he thought it was me but what was really funny was that he said oh yes you know and her voice was very distinctive he tweeted about it her voice was very distinctive well actually yeah my voice might be distinctive but uh joni's got a very broad birmingham accent you know which is extremely distinctive So it just showed how sort of off kilter he was. He was throwing all these things out there. And then in this court case, he said that I was this mother. He he said that I was this the man you never saw. And this tune of the Bailey account. And, you know, he just looked really silly because it didn't add up. You know, the evidence he was presenting. you know everyone just looked embarrassed like what's the evidence what's the relevance of this you know where's you know this is just something you've coupled together out there you know the judge was very keen to move on from that point so we then had this crazy situation between this is where it gets quite funny actually between

1:44:41
Unknown_06: April, so from about May 2019 onwards, where both of us weren't allowed to talk about each other online.

Unknown_06: Fine, subject to the actual hearing for harassment, which we were pretty confident that we would win.

Unknown_06: And suddenly, out of the blue, I get a court summons for contempt of court.

Unknown_06: And this is what Hayden does. He gets injunctions against people. Now, an injunction is something that you should use as a shield to protect yourself. Hayden uses them as a weapon. He gets an injunction against somebody and then he goes looking to see how he, you know, if you've broken it or how he can claim that you've broken it. So he claimed that I had posted, and I had, I'd posted on this forum, Spinster, which is, you know, it's like the Fed, is it on the Fediverse?

1:45:22
Unknown_00: It's on the Fediverse. It's an instance ran by Graham Lineham.

Unknown_00: And it is like a feminist turf mumsnet version of like Post, another Fediverse instance, or Mastodon, which is very progressive as opposed to Spinster. But yeah, it's kind of like Twitter, but it's on the Fediverse, which is like a different network. Yeah.

Unknown_06: Yeah, and it's only for, they're very specific, it's only for women and actual, you know, natal born women and women who disagree with gender ideology. So Hayden was not invited onto this forum. He was, you know, he shouldn't have been there.

1:46:04
Unknown_06: And I made a couple of comments about Kate Scottel's arrest. I didn't reference Hayden at all. I was just, you know, there were general comments. And the next thing I know, I get this summons for contempt of court, which has got a two year penal notice attached to it because he says, I've broken the terms of the injunction with four comments I made.

Unknown_06: And I'm not kidding, one of my comments was, I don't need 50,000 photo filters not to look like a piece of pork pie, not to look like a pork pie. And he said, my use of photo filters is very well known and is a joke on social media.

1:46:41
Unknown_06: And so she's clearly referencing me and is in breach of the Jones Junction.

Unknown_00: She should go to prison. Oh God, that actually requires some kind of visual aid because it's true. Stephanie Hayden on all of his social media accounts, his face is completely blown out. Like he takes the face filter and cranks that shit up to like 13. So you can barely make out any details of his face. I'll try to throw up a picture on screen so you can see it. That's fun.

1:47:16
Unknown_00: Actually, I found the famous one that is almost definitely what he's referring to.

Unknown_00: Okay, here, look. This is Twitter, right? That's what he portrays himself as on Twitter, using the bleeding edge of an iPhone face filter. And this is, I believe this is, I mean, you can barely tell that the same person, I'm pretty sure that's him out in a boot without the, without the, the, with a candid angle, without the assistance of Apple Inc.

Unknown_05: So I can't actually, I can't actually see what you're showing, but yeah. So I was then in the ludicrous situation and he actually said that he hadn't seen these posts, but somebody had sent them to him while he was on holiday in Australia.

1:47:52
Unknown_06: So this was just so vexatious, so contentious. He's saying that I'm referring to him via inference but he hasn't even seen them directly. Someone sent them to him while he's in Australia. Well, how is that harassment? That's not what the injunction was about. So I found myself in the ludicrous position of having to write a witness statement saying, I have never previously referred to Stephanie Hayden as a pork pie or any other kind of food stuff.

1:48:34
Unknown_06: I am unsure why they think that this is a reference to them. I mean, just ludicrous.

Unknown_05: I mean, he's kind of making the statement that his alias, his professional alias is Pork Pie.

Unknown_00: And that kind of statement is a direct allusion to him.

Unknown_06: And then one of the other things I'd said is about how people make up hashtags, you know, to harass women. And, you know, I said, oh, yeah, they did that about me. You know, they set up Caroline Farrow hashtags and Our Lady of Hypocrite hashtags. And he said, well, that's exactly what she accused me of in her defence. So she's obviously talking about me. So, you know, she's in breach of the injunction. And actually a couple of people had done it. But do you know what I mean? It was so...

1:49:12
Unknown_06: You know, he literally he attached a two year penal notice to this, you know, and it was obviously to threaten and intimidate. And this is obviously he obviously wanted me to to settle or to offer him money or to frighten me.

Unknown_06: Then my organisation gets involved and writes a petition saying, you know, he wants to send Caroline to jail for two years. So he then says, oh, Caroline must have done this is all her fault, blah, blah, blah, and adds that to his charges.

1:49:48
Unknown_06: And I didn't I wasn't involved in any of that. And we had to go through disclosure in which I proved that I wasn't responsible for any of it because I had to forward company, you know, internal stuff from my organization showing that I didn't write it. I wasn't involved. Nothing to do with me. But actually, you know, you're trying to put one of our employees in prison for two years. We're going to speak up.

Unknown_06: So it kind of all then, you know,

Unknown_06: Boiled on, really, bubbled on under the surface. And it gets to the point where he thinks that every single poster on Kiwi Farms is me. And he's reporting me to the police left, right and centre. Oh, that's her alias. Oh, that's her alias. That's her. That's her. Oh, she's in breach of the injunction. She's posting about me on Kiwi Farms. Oh, go and arrest her. And then it gets to just before lockdown.

1:50:23
Unknown_06: And I agree to settle with him because.

Unknown_06: a he's got no money uh and you know fighting this thing is expensive so yeah we agree it's locked down my kids are going crazy everyone's going crazy it's locked down this is just nonsense so and you know the court he he was saying that he wasn't allowed to leave the house because he was really clinically vulnerable and he you know he he was stalling on his side because we'd given all our information um and he was he had no answer to it you know we could We'd proved our case really. And the other interesting thing is as well, he was so bad. We'd missed a court deadline because I'd switched lawyers and he offered to settle, right? He said, look, in February that year, he said, let's settle.

1:51:15
Unknown_06: So I said, okay, we'll settle. And we filled out all the paperwork and we did everything. And then he decided at the last minute he was going to pull out of the settlement. And the reason that he did that was because it was the day before our disclosure deadline. So he was hoping that we would be so distracted by the fact that he's going to settle that we wouldn't meet disclosure and he could do us. But fortunately, we had in the back of our minds that he might be pulling a stunt. Yeah, he was. So in come come April, he then offers to drop hands and we say, OK, because, you know, whatever, we're not going to get any money out of you. And this has just gone on too long.

1:51:51
Unknown_06: So we drop hands, at which point a mad journalist who I'd fallen out with because everyone falls out with each other in this movement, Joni Walsh, gets really annoyed that I've...

1:52:27
Unknown_06: settled with him she's like Caroline you were giving it the big goal you know and all these people donated your crowdfunder and you've just taken all their money and you're a great thief and you know and just got really really angry with me over settling um and you know I can answer any crowdfunder questions I mean all I will say is that defending myself in court against uh This person has cost thousands and thousands of pounds. I don't really want to rage.

Unknown_00: How much did I raise overall in my crowd funder?

Unknown_06: I think I raised about 6,000 pounds.

Unknown_00: Oh, and then that's what she's accusing you of, of stealing as if, uh, any reaching a settlement would easily, easily exceed $6,000 or pounds.

Unknown_06: Yeah. And, you know, yes, I had my work was raising money, but they realized there'd been a crowd funder set up. So they were like, can you use that first, actually, which is quite reasonable thing to do.

1:53:21
Unknown_06: So, yeah. And we'd had some back and forth because I'd thought that there might be surplus. And then it turned out that actually, you know, there wasn't going to be. But she decided that I had ripped everybody off, that I'd taken it, you know, and I'd said, I'd spent all the crowdfunded money on a MacBook and just went absolutely off on one.

Unknown_00: That's really terrible of her to do, especially if she's supposed to be on your side, because it's blatant that any kind of lawsuit is going to exceed $6,000 in expenses, no matter what.

1:53:59
Unknown_06: and then she um she then kind of got in with one of this there was this troll that that seemed to be very much on hayden's side and um she then goes ahead and leaks all my whatsapp conversations uh with her over the whole course of the suit to this troll

Unknown_06: And this troll, obviously, who's linked to Hayden, one of the cases that he was in says this troll was called Reporter Lau. First of all, it was Legal Aid Loser. Then it was Reporter Lau. It was very clearly linked to him. I don't know if it was him.

Unknown_06: One court case found that he had very close links to it. And it certainly was publishing information that could only have come from him.

Unknown_04: Yeah.

Unknown_06: And so because she leaks all my WhatsApps to this, you know, effectively going back to Hayden, Hayden then decides to sue me for a second time.

1:55:01
Unknown_06: And what happened during that period? I don't know if you remember.

Unknown_00: Can you disclose any of the information about your settlement?

Unknown_06: Yeah, yeah. So our settlement was just that we were going to not talk about each other again.

Unknown_00: okay perfect yeah fine fine you know but then the the texts come out and the texts are retroactive like yeah yeah so so so what happened was do you remember it all went a bit crazy on the thread uh you know all these sock puppets from different people and somebody had set up a sock puppet in the name of my daughter uh and i had asked you

1:55:42
Unknown_06: Hey, Josh, can you remove it? I'd asked to Jannie, first of all, and they'd said they'd not realised that my daughter's surname was different to mine. And they're like, you've called your daughter that? That's a bit weird. No. And I was like, no, look, honestly, someone's posting on the Kiwi Farms in my daughter's name. At that point, she was 15, 16. You know, she was going, applying for university and it just wasn't fair. And I think you looked her up and you realized that she had no digital footprint at all. So you changed the name because you don't... Well, what we ended up doing, I think, with... I mean, your thread is a fucking train wreck.

1:56:21
Unknown_00: It's literally... The name of the thread is just like...

Unknown_00: I had no idea what was going on for the entire duration of this. I was either busy or doing something else, or I just didn't care. And it was all overseen by one of my admins named Ride, who pays a lot more attention to the transgender stuff. And he eventually, we had a different thread for Adrian Yollop, for Stephanie Hayden, and for you. And eventually we just merged it all in. So there's one thread called the Adrian Yollop, Stephanie Hayden. Adrian Harrop, yeah. Yeah, Harrop, sorry, not Yollop. hair of uh uh carolyn farrow like train wreck cluster thread and that's what we call it and it's uh somebody i i can't say who with any certainty with any scientific degree of certainty but somebody has been making alt accounts uh and spamming uh uh at carolyn farrow on that thread for years and years at this point yeah so um

1:56:54
Unknown_06: Uh, where was it? Yeah. So, so you, you had, um, you changed the name of, um, you know, you you'd kindly taken my daughter's name off there. Cause you know, they were posting filth about me in my daughter's name. It was really horrible and it, you know, it could have affected her university applications. And at this point, I hadn't been posting on the Kiwi farms, but I knew somebody who was, or somebody told me that they were, and they were like, you might want to contact the staff. And I was at that point too, you know,

1:57:55
Unknown_06: And so I was too scared to talk to you in my own name because the Kiwi Farms is what it was and, you know, had this reputation.

Unknown_00: To be fair, I discourage anyone from registering with their own name, but you were very insistent about it. So I permitted that.

Unknown_06: And so I'd had this conversation with Joni about how I had been talking to someone who had been talking to the mods in order to try and work out who all these sock puppets were. Because the other thing was we strongly suspected that one of the sock puppets was Hayden because there was this data breach and.

1:58:28
Unknown_06: there was, you know, even Justice Nicklin has asked Hayden in court, you know, are you sure you haven't been posting on this thread? Because there were a lot of posts that were using his exact vernacular, strange idioms that only he uses.

Unknown_06: One account posted my mobile phone number and Louise Moody's phone number and Adrian Yellen's phone number, you know, all people he'd sued from, from this WhatsApp chat that had been leaked to him.

Unknown_06: And, um,

1:59:07
Unknown_06: I had, what was I saying? Yeah, so I knew, we knew that he was likely posting on the thread. So I wanted to see if there was any IP information pertaining to that, because that would have really strengthened my place. You know, he's claiming that I've breached the injunction. Actually, mate, you've clearly breached it. um and i didn't want to approach anybody in my own name so i got given the details of an alt account on there and very stupidly on one occasion there was a conversation about uh this how his face looked like a biscuit and i posted a picture of a biscuit on the thread and um and i i you know i admitted that in in court because um

1:59:53
Unknown_06: I testify under perjury that I was biscuit posting on the keyboard farms. I know, honestly. So Joni had said, oh, yeah, Caroline was this poster. Actually, no, I wasn't. I just posted one picture of a biscuit. You know...

Unknown_06: I know. It was one of those happy face biscuits. But, you know, I'm not going to lie. So, yeah, I told the truth. Yes, I did. I got given these account details. And as soon as the person who owned the account saw I'd posted a picture of a biscuit, they immediately said, what the hell are you doing? You could be in real trouble and revoked all access. And I've actually got all the screenshots of messages to show that that's what happened. And what was really funny was, of course, Hayden then...

2:00:28
Unknown_06: made me disclose who had operated that account you know so he could go after them um i don't think he managed it in the end because i think the person who operated the account had very very good um digital hygiene have good have good digital hygiene people so anyway um because johnny leaked all my whatsapps uh to hayden he then sued me for a second time and this was laughable he sued me for um fraudulent misrepresentation Because he said that if he'd known that I posted the picture of him as a biscuit on the farm, he would never have settled. But the thing is, fraudulent misrepresentation is a technical thing. It's if you're offering somebody something and it's normally an insurance. So fraudulent misrepresentation is. is if you sue a supermarket because you've slipped over and broken your leg but actually you then it then gets discovered and an investigator finds that you're all the time that you've broken your leg you're actually running and you were lying to get an insurance payout that's what fraudulent misrepresentation is but yeah he tried to sue me a second time for fraudulent misrepresentation and we were a we were really confident of winning that one because

2:01:54
Unknown_06: He was suing me for matters which had already been settled.

Unknown_06: If matters already been litigated, you can't relitigate a settled matter. It's called double jeopardy in the US. Yeah, it's Henderson v Henderson in the UK.

Unknown_06: So, yeah, he was trying to reopen settled litigation. And in the first settlement, it said, you know, I concede all these claims about Kiwi Farms and this, that and the other. So he was sort of wanting a second bite of the cherry saying, well, if I'd known she'd posted a picture of a biscuit, I wouldn't have I wouldn't have settled. But and once again, it goes down to the wire and he offers to settle for a second time.

2:02:28
Unknown_06: And I'm not keen to, but my lawyer says, look, Caroline, you know, this is such a waste of time and money. And, you know, yeah, the judge might tell you off because you posted a picture of a biscuit. And actually, the first thing he does is he writes to me and says.

Unknown_06: I need to pay him £2,000 to settle. And if I don't, he's going to go to the police. And obviously, if I go to the police, if he goes to the police, my career, such as it is, will be over, blah, blah, blah. And it was like blackmail. Literally, it was very akin to blackmail.

2:03:07
Unknown_00: You pay me £2,000.

Unknown_00: That's a thing in law. You can effectively blackmail people legally. If it's a matter of court, you can go to someone and say, okay, I'm suing you, and for the measly fee of $5,000, I will settle out of court. And it's very, very hard to get caught doing this. There was a copyright troll in the U.S. who did this. Effectively, he just sued everybody for copyright infringement and said, for $1,000, I'll quit. I'll stop suing you. And he had to do this like 100 times before court was like, you're doing this on purpose yeah you know and in the uk we don't have that but it was very very close but you know he he asked for two thousand pounds we said no you're not getting a penny and then he came back and said okay i'll settle so and that was uh december i think it was december 2020 so 2021

2:03:43
Unknown_06: comes along and you know whatever he's non-stop and we once again we agreed he wouldn't talk about each other he's non-stop monitoring my feed to see whether or not I might be saying anything that might pertain to him and you know at one point I had an email sent to me at

Unknown_06: I tweeted something about sex offenders. And I think it was about six o'clock on Saturday evening, half five. It was just the last thing I was typing before I was doing dinner and doing my stuff with the kids. And I then get an email from him, a legal threat from him less than an hour later saying, you said this at this time. And, you know, it was talking about sex offenders and it was a reference to me. And I had to basically say, well, look, Just because I'm talking about sex offenders and you happen to be one doesn't necessarily mean I can be talking about anyone. Go away. Stop stalking me. And I blocked him. You know, just stop it. And, you know, there were sort of little skirmishes. And then he threatened January 2022. He wrote to my lawyers and said, are you still representing her? Because I'm planning to sue her again.

2:05:15
Unknown_06: And my lawyer said, Yeah, fine, whatever. And then a week later, he said, Oh, no, she's learned her lesson. I'm not going to sue her now. Like, you know, it's just non nonstop sort of trying to exercise control. And this is the thing he says, Oh, she's out of control. Her Twitter feed is out of control. Like, I have to answer to him.

Unknown_00: Just out of curiosity, because you're obviously, no, I mean, I can sit through however long you need to to get through your story. My question is that you're obviously very talking pretty candidly about him. So has all litigation been resolved?

2:05:50
Unknown_06: Yeah, yeah.

Unknown_00: So if you agreed not to talk about each other.

Unknown_06: We haven't, we haven't. So, yeah, the latest lawsuit he offered a few weeks ago, when it became clear that the police weren't going to do anything, he offered to drop hands and settle and walk away. I really wasn't keen to do this because I just think he's just never going to stop suing me. And at some point it needs to stop. But...

2:06:25
Unknown_06: The problem is, Josh, he doesn't have any money at all. He owes the Daily Mail £29,500 in unpaid court fees. He owes the Family Education Trust about £16,000 in unpaid court fees. A couple of other individuals he owes outstanding sums of money to. And it's like, you know,

Unknown_06: And the other thing was the case wouldn't come to court until January 2025.

2:07:01
Unknown_06: And, you know, on the one hand, I want it to be thrashed out in court. I think it should be thrashed out in court about whether or not this sexual offence can be talked about, as I said, because I think it's public interest. But on the other hand, I've got, you know, I've got all these children, two of my youngest children I'm really candid about. They both have diagnoses of autism and they are both in really heartbreaking situations, actually, in terms of their education and what's going on. And I just don't need I just don't need help.

2:07:41
Unknown_06: the hassle of litigation with him. I mean, he might say, well, you've been talking about me a lot tonight, whatever. But generally, I think he's suing Graham Linehan again. And I think Graham Linehan is probably in a much more robust situation. You know, he's got more mainstream cred than me. He gets in the papers. He's more willing and able, I think, to take

Unknown_06: to take the battle on because basically if I hadn't settled with him, so he just wanted to drop hands and walk away. And then he asked for a confidentiality clause.

2:08:16
Unknown_06: And I said, no, no, I'm not, I'm not having any more of this. I'm not going to talk about you. Bullshit. Excuse me, swearing nonsense because I,

Unknown_06: you know, whenever I, Hayden is not a person that you can enter into a legal contract with because he will always break it and gaslight you. He'll always try and use that as a weapon against you. If you agree to do anything, he's not a safe person to be in a contract with. So if I had said, right okay have a confidentiality clause he would have tried to find some way of saying I'd broken it so I said to my lawyers if this is a deal breaker so be it if he doesn't want to settle without a confidentiality clause I'm not going to settle and we said no we're not going to do it as a confidentiality clause so we just settled he's he's dropped hands and walked away and

2:08:49
Unknown_06: The other, part of the reason why I've agreed this is because I think Graham Linehan will probably fight it better

Unknown_06: He'll bring more attention to it. Secondly, my focus is on Surrey Police. So I'm suing Surrey Police for what they did. And I want to sue one of their officers as well. So how many court battles do I actually want? And I think my energy is is better taken up.

2:09:43
Unknown_06: fighting Surrey police and stopping this from happening to other women, rather than just, you know, a constant sort of dung flinging argument with somebody who is a lunatic. And it doesn't matter with Hayden. It doesn't matter.

Unknown_06: Even if I'd won. And I think, you know, my lawyer said I had a good chance of winning and I was pretty confident of winning. He'd always find some way of spinning it to say that he'd won. And you know long you know the job of a lawyer is actually to try and keep you out of court, where possible, so it was with a very heavy heart that we said, I said okay. um settle and walk away but I think if he sues me for a fourth time uh I'm absolutely not going to walk away and the reason why I'm talking about this is because I believe that the situation is so outrageous it is like Jonathan Yaniv you know you've got this unhinged in my opinion I think he's unhinged this unhinged person going around chucking lawsuits at women

2:10:17
Unknown_06: trying to cover up all his misdeeds and he'd be better putting up his hand and admitting and being candid and being honest, actually to have a healthy respect for somebody who does that.

2:11:08
Unknown_06: But you've got someone who is really unhinged, who's using the court fee system. I think it is a matter of public interest. And what happened to me was so wrong. So I'm talking about this, not yes, okay, it involves Hayden, it can't not. This is just actually, I've been through a really, I'm playing victim, but it's true. I've been through a really traumatic four years and I should be able to share my story and say what happened and actually how the transgender movement, if Hayden hadn't been transgender, this wouldn't have happened and how he was able to sort of leverage his transgender status with the police and also I think he's totemic, really.

2:11:51
Unknown_06: They say it never happens, but here is a man with all this criminal background trying to say, well, it's completely fine for me to say I'm a woman and have access to young people.

Unknown_00: Sorry. Yeah, no, I got you. One of the things that you brought up that I kind of want to circle back to is that you mentioned your real issue is with the police, the Surrey police, who I think are the famous police. I think that anytime you see news from the UK about some dystopian nightmare police action, it's almost always from Surrey. I could be wrong, but that seems to be...

2:12:27
Unknown_06: No, no, no. I think West Yorkshire probably.

Unknown_00: Okay. West Yorkshire is worse. Okay.

Unknown_00: Well, one of the things that you sent me beforehand is that you sent me a copy of, you mentioned that he tried to get an injunction against you, right?

Unknown_04: Mm-hmm.

Unknown_00: You glossed over, I think, if this is the right one, the details of the injunction. So if you would like, I would like to read them real quick.

Unknown_06: Oh, no. Oh, this is another one. That was the police injunction.

2:13:00
Unknown_00: oh really that was yeah yeah yeah so um so after it sorry sorry after it got dropped in 20 in in 2022 he then started talking about me again um non-stop he was really cross because i'd been on the news uh graham linehan had written a book um oh no graham linehan was was beginning to write his book and he was being in the news about how he'd been cancelled

Unknown_06: And he mentioned Stephanie Hayden. And I went on GB News and said, yeah, I was targeted by Stephanie Hayden too. And that then sent Hayden off into another spiral. He complained about Ofcom, who's the broadcast regulation authority.

Unknown_06: He complained about GB News. He then kept trying to get me deplatformed from GB News. He then started talking about me non-stop.

Unknown_06: And then I responded and me responding to him

2:13:55
Unknown_06: uh was then what prompted him to go to the police uh and then to arrest me and then okay what did you say to him on twitter

Unknown_06: Um, so basically, uh, he was saying what a terrible person I am, uh, and how I should be deplatformed. And, you know, I'm really, I shouldn't be, you know, married to a priest and I bring shame on everybody, et cetera. And I just said, well, actually that's a bit rich coming from you because you're a sex offender.

Unknown_00: Um, a factual statement. He was convicted for a sex offense. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So then, then he, um, he,

2:14:34
Unknown_06: And then he did things like he published he was he kept talking about me claiming I was a stalker. And he always whenever he's talking about me, he tags in this one woman. And, you know, they have these very open conversations about me. And he was clearly talking about me, about being a surrey stalker and religious, you know, and he was in the same city that my daughter is in for university. And he in the middle of a conversation about me, he published a picture of my daughter's university.

Unknown_06: um and i was you know it was a clear reference we know where your daughter is uh my daughter's studying to be a doctor of medicine uh so a few weeks later he published something about her medical school um now he never publishes stuff about medical schools uh and him and this woman have this conversation about um

2:15:28
Unknown_06: how they knew that my daughter was going there because I'd said it. I actually hadn't. I'd been really, really careful not to say it. And they'd kept having all these conversations about... There was a woman down the road from me who was murdered and they made a joke out of that. And they kept having, you know, for a few years, all this banter about coming to my house again, eating...

Unknown_06: lunch at the pub down the road from me, et cetera, et cetera, coming to Surrey, Surrey Stalker. At one point Hayden was on an aeroplane and he was flying over my house and he published a picture of the map, I think, saying that he was over my house or, you know, he talked about flying over my house. um you know and he was just to pause real quick um it would be safe to assume that what he's doing is operating two twitter accounts so that he can talk about certain things with himself and make it public or No, no, this other person is a real person.

2:16:08
Unknown_00: Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Unknown_06: Yeah, she is. She just hates you because you're a TERF or whatever? Yeah, no, long story. She's hated me before he came on the scene because... She didn't like, this is where I differ with Kiwi Farms, actually.

Unknown_06: You have this thread on, I hate to use the word, Tard Babies. It's true.

2:16:53
Unknown_00: It's true. That is probably the worst thread and title in the entire site is like Tard Baby General. Yeah, that's pretty bad.

Unknown_06: It's horrible. Yeah, complete reprobates. I strongly disapprove.

Unknown_06: If you're, you know, and I really, I have to say, I'll be honest, I thought, poor, I actually have a lot of sympathy with Holly Dance. I heard your matty about her. And yeah, I didn't, I didn't agree. You got some stuff wrong anyway. I did.

Unknown_00: I got a couple things wrong on that.

Unknown_06: But yeah, so I have a lot of sympathy with these cases and these people. In short, I think as a relative, you're the one with skin in the game. So if you decide that your child is better off with the machine turned off, You're the mom. You're the dad. You've got skin in the game. You've got to live with that. That's probably the right thing to do. But in some of these cases, there is sometimes a bit of hope.

2:17:27
Unknown_00: So is she just like an anti-natalist, anti-keeping disabled children? Yeah, I don't know.

Unknown_06: She's just like really, really liberal. And I think she had a longstanding... I don't know, literally. I really don't know, Josh, right? I was defending this case, this Alfie Evans case. And suddenly this woman just popped up out of nowhere. And she was like, seven days ago, I hadn't heard of Caroline Farrow, but now I really hate her. I think she's such a, you know, B-I-T-C-H. And I think, and she was just really like spewing venom. And I was really taken aback because this was just like a complete stranger.

2:18:02
Unknown_05: I'd never done anything to this woman.

Unknown_06: And she just, and she joined forces with the guy that was writing the Tombstone Teeth blog.

2:18:34
Unknown_06: You know, they'd known each other for sort of 20 years and apparently it was the two of them. And then when Hayden and Harrop started, they sort of hitched their wagon to there. And now Hayden and her have become like really, really good friends.

Unknown_06: And, you know, she's just sort of it's funny, actually, she turned up. She turned up to one of my court cases and she claimed that I'd violently assaulted her.

Unknown_06: You know, and it was really funny. So I didn't violently assault her at all. But she had got hold of, I don't quite know how this happened. But there was an intimate photograph of me. I say intimate, it wasn't like.

2:19:09
Unknown_06: wasn't full-on porn but it it was a photograph that my husband took of me when I was uh asleep uh and you can probably see the top of my bottom uh very you know that's it and my husband around the time that this blog was going off my husband thought that his machine had been hacked because he suddenly you know things started going a bit weird and he thought nothing of it and then this woman started going on about this this this photograph of me that you know and and

2:19:46
Unknown_06: how it had been sent to her. And she claimed that my friend had sent it to her. And my friend's like, no, I don't know about a photo. I don't know. Anyway.

Unknown_06: she somehow ended up with in possession of this photo and she kept talking about it and and you know and then it appeared on kiwi farms and you know and and i said to her you say that you were sent it well who sent it to you and how did they know uh your your phone number and and she just literally she said you're a i can't say the word she said you're a c-u-n-t she said you're a

2:20:21
Unknown_06: And you're going to prison. And she was literally like, you're going to prison. And my husband sort of came along and said, can you just leave my wife alone, please?

Unknown_06: Just, you know, and Hayden was there. I was like, oh, Father Farrow, Father Farrow, come along, come along. And sort of ushered this woman away. The next thing we know, we get a letter going, violent assault, violent assault outside the, outside the, and, you know, they wrote to the judge and they said that I had viciously assaulted this woman and, They drew cartoons of me assaulting her.

2:20:54
Unknown_06: And then, you know, and it was quite disturbing. And she said, you know, we've got the CCTV. And the police looked at the CCTV, because obviously if I'd assaulted somebody out in serious business, she was one of his witnesses. And the police looked at the CCTV and said, yeah, nothing happened. There's no crime here.

Unknown_00: How is that not perjury?

Unknown_00: If they're drawing cartoons that directly illustrate a physical contact that did not exist and they can conclusively prove that that did not happen, how does that not result in any kind of punitive action?

2:21:29
Unknown_06: Well, quite. I think we would have had to apply to the court and say, they've written this letter and it's perjury. But the thing is, the lawyer said, look, the judges are just used to this nonsense. You know, the best thing to do is just to treat it with the contempt it deserves. You know, and the thing is, as well, because Hayden acts, you know, as you would say, pro se, as a litigant in person, he comes in and litigants in person are always treated as a little bit special by the judge.

Unknown_00: yeah they know yeah they do that in the us too um there's a specific ruling where a judge is forced to um treat arguments from pro se litigants with a benefit of a doubt which is not bestowed upon you know regular filings or if some like if a uh you know a pro se says something that sounds kind of like case law the judge knows about they're they're by law required to interpret that favorably Yes. It's just like, it's nonsense. Especially if that person does have like a master's in law. Like they know better.

2:22:28
Unknown_06: Yeah. So, you know, they always get given a bit of leeway. It was really funny, actually. The first time I was in court with him, a lawyer friend of ours rang us up that night and they said, oh, he's a litigant in person. He said, did he bring the peanut gallery with him? And I was like, yes. How did you know?

Unknown_06: Always happens, Caroline. Yeah. They always turn up with their gallery of hangers-on and nutters.

2:23:01
Unknown_00: It's like this is their entertainment for them. This is something that I had with someone who was suing me, is that this person was active on the forum and actively discussing their litigation against me on my website while claiming that my website was causing them to fear for their life.

Unknown_00: Which is just on its face absurd, but it's a very expensive thing to defend. And my lawyer at some point said, I think we should ban her because I think that this is just like she doesn't care about winning or losing. She just enjoys the commotion and the discussion. She enjoys the theory of litigation and talking about that with people who are interested. And it's like if you cut off that source of entertainment for them, they lose interest. Yeah, no, exactly.

2:23:34
Unknown_06: So, I mean, when all this went through, my lawyer was just like, look, the judges are used to all this. It's just nonsense, you know. And actually, what was really funny was that they wrote to the judge and said, oh, can you get the Metropolitan Police involved? Actually, you know, they went to the Metropolitan Police themselves. You know, it was all kind of theatre and drama and performance. And even in our most recent lawsuit, you know,

2:24:11
Unknown_06: He was, it was really funny. He was saying, oh, she, she, she violently assaulted her, you know, and we were saying, but, and he, he, he produced the emails as proof. And we're like, well, hang on. These emails show that I didn't.

Unknown_06: It really is a surreal, surreal gaslighting. So, yeah. So in, in, where was it? Yeah. It's a 2022. You're talking about something flying over your house. Yeah. So he continued to talk about me in 2022, making reference about coming to my house, calling my house, you know, all these names. Fair enough. He's got a point. You saw the video.

2:24:50
Unknown_06: But he was like nonstop talking about my house, my family, you know, blah, blah, blah.

Unknown_06: And, you know, so I just gave it back. I just thought I've absolutely had enough of this. You know, you're actually now trying to de-platform me from GB News and you're trying to whatever. I'm sorry. Just stop it.

Unknown_06: And him sort of doing that about my daughter and university was absolutely the last straw. So then in May, the police ring me up. and say, oh, you've been misgendering him. And you've been referring to him as Uncle Tony. Do you think you could not do that? And I said, do you think you could do some work, please? Go away. And they said, no, we haven't done anything. There's no further investigation. We're just telling you. And I was like, OK, fine. But this is crazy. You should do some work. And then, so I thought it all gone away. Then he continues to talk about the fact that he's suing me.

2:25:22
Unknown_06: throughout sort of May and July. And I have no inkling of this. I've got no lawsuit.

2:25:55
Unknown_06: And he appears, what's really funny is he appears on GB News and everyone makes fun of him because he, you know, presents a bit of a, I don't know if you can find the clip, but he basically looks pregnant. He has this big fat stomach. I think you guys, it's known as a gunt round your way. Yes, that's the term.

Unknown_00: That's the official term for it.

Unknown_06: so he's got this big fat gunt uh and he looks pregnant and he this goes viral him on gb news and he's actually saying i admit that i'm not a woman and i'm like hang on a minute you're constantly suing me saying that you are and i'm offending your dignity as a woman what the

2:26:39
Unknown_06: What's going on here? You know, and he says, oh, you'd think someone who's being misused, sued for misuse of privacy would know better. I'm like, really? Am I being sued? I didn't know that. We go on holiday. The day we come back from holiday, a lawsuit. And again, this was really crap. my husband was going through a cancer scare he'd had like a colonoscopy um we you know my daughter got kicked out of school because she's too autistic to cope and i i don't mean that pejoratively she she has autism she can't cope in a mainstream busy school environment um and we were having a really rubbish time we go on holiday the day we get back from holiday um the lawsuit arrives on our in fact it was the no the day we get back from holiday my husband has to go off for a colonoscopy the day after it's like he realizes we're home uh the lawsuit lands on my doorstep and i'm like oh for goodness sake this is just crazy will this guy never leave us alone so in my rage uh my chantal rage stream i i know i i probably am deservedly a lol cow because i don't learn either um

2:27:27
Unknown_06: In my rage, I take a picture of the lawsuit just because I feel like I have to prove it. So I take a picture of the lawsuit and I put it on my Twitter feed.

Unknown_06: And I'm just to show it's happening. And literally the postman gives me the lawsuit in my hand. As I'm walking out the house.

Unknown_06: So I'm like, oh, for goodness sake, take a picture. And I take my daughter to the dentist. I get to the dentist and I get all these messages. Caroline, you've posted that on Twitter and it's got his address and it's got your address. You've doxxed the pair of you, you stupid idiot.

2:28:24
Unknown_06: So I immediately...

Unknown_00: That's also absurd because in the U.S., if you file a lawsuit and your address is on it, there's actually – it was a big deal where the U.S. federal government had put into a filing all sorts of confidential stuff. And then they panicked and said, we did that on accident. We need that taken down from public record. And the judge was like – Stupid? No, you can't do that. You can't put the genie back in the bottle. You can't undo the damage.

2:28:57
Unknown_00: There's so many little things where you're like, oh, well, of course, and then I did that, and that was also a big deal. It's like, that would never even be an issue in the U.S.

Unknown_06: And it's like a public... Well, it shouldn't be because it's a public document in the UK. And funnily enough, I don't know who it is, but there's someone off the farms who has been archiving all his tweets. And I saw an archive of one of his tweets where he's saying, oh, yeah, these...

Unknown_06: you know, he himself has admitted that a lawsuit is a public document and that actually, you know, publishing a public, it's not doxing, but you know, Hayden's truth is what he wants it to be at the time. So he then goes to the police and says, she's posted my address and she's called me a sex offender. And now look,

2:29:37
Unknown_06: all these people are talking about my address on Kiwi Farms. This is all her fault.

Unknown_06: And so they then use that as grounds to arrest me. But funnily enough, he had already been doxxed on Kiwi Farms the year before. And like Keffels, why was he doxxed? Because he posted a picture of where he lives, his flat, his apartment. And, you know, you know what the farmers are like. They work out whether curtains are being bought or, you know, wherever they located it pretty quickly. So he didn't tell the police that he's already been doxxed on the farms by somebody else anyway, or that I'd removed it 20 minutes later. So he just says, she's doxed me, she's posted my address and said that I'm a sex offender. So the police are like, can't have this. And then he also used these memes on Kiwi Farms, which we'll go into, to say that I've been posting malicious communications and grossly offensive material.

2:30:14
Unknown_06: And so the police sort of hung the arrest statement off the back of that. And then six months later, so I go public about the fact that I've been arrested. But I'm very careful not to mention Hayden.

2:30:55
Unknown_06: But he identifies himself. And he gives an interview to Pink News and Vice News telling them all the information. It was like, great, you've identified yourself. You've actually endangered the case now because how can a jury give a fair trial because they've already seen what you've got to say?

Unknown_06: And then he goes back to the police. He just, at this point, he goes a bit manic and he starts pulling everything off Kiwi Farms, you know, stuff I've said, stuff other people have said. He pulls a post I've made on Getter, which has nothing to do with him. He just gets everything and flings it at me. And the police go, well, this is really terrible. And they apply for this stalking protection order, which is what you're about to need.

2:31:33
Unknown_00: okay i was gonna ask can i read this uh so this is 2019 this is read the official title in the guildford magistrates court in the matter of stalking protection act 2019 in an application for a stalking protection order between the chief constable of surrey police and carolyn farrow a hearsay notice but then i'll skip down to the juicy part this is 73 pages which i assume they expected you to read in this entire day

2:32:14
Unknown_00: Part four, proposed prohibitions and requirements. The applicant proposes the following prohibitions.

Unknown_00: One, contacting Stephanie Hayden directly or indirectly by any means or incite another person to do so. This includes but is not limited to contact in person, calls, letters, emails, messages, social media. Pretty standard for a stalking order. Pretty fair.

Unknown_00: engaging in any form of surveillance of Stephanie Hayden or inciting a person to do so.

Unknown_00: Number three, researching Stephanie Hayden or inciting another person to do so, which includes storing online or any information about Stephanie Hayden. Number four, which is a bit unfair if that person's suing you that you can't do personal research in regards to them. But I guess on their face, they assume that this is like a random stalking thing between two private people.

2:32:50
Unknown_00: Number four, attending any place you believe Stephanie Hayden is present or remaining in that place once you are aware of their presence. Number five, possessing, owning, or using more than one mobile phone and one SIM card unless with written permission from your offender manager in that area you reside.

Unknown_00: you must provide your telephone number and unique identifying numbers of all devices within three days of this order being granted or within three days of any supplying any changes within three days of such change that's how they wrote that number six making reference to stephanie hayden either directly or indirectly on social media or in any publication number seven having or using any social media which has an asterisk next to it social networking gaming or dating website unless

2:33:53
Unknown_00: So in general, not just in association with Stephanie Hayden, any having or using any social media, social networking, gaming or dating website, unless with written permission of your police offender manager and having supplied username and emails associated with each site within three days of your order being granted.

Unknown_00: And then it defines what a social media website is, which includes any website or software programs used for social networking or the dedicated websites and applications to interact with other users. So every single website that she uses, which exists for the purpose of being able to contact other people, she must identify herself to the police and provide the usernames and emails associated with each.

Unknown_00: And she cannot create any new accounts on those platforms while this is in effect. Number eight.

2:34:40
Unknown_00: accessing or using any social media or chat site or chat application, including, but not limited to Facebook, Twitter, WhatsApp, or Instagram. I assume that might also extend to the Kiwi farms, but it's not mentioned explicitly alongside those others. Unless approved in writing by your offender manager and you have provided the username linked email address and passwords to your offender manager within three days of this order being granted or within three days of supplying any changes within three days of such change. So, uh,

Unknown_00: You can't have any social media.

Unknown_00: And if you do have any, you must also provide the passwords so the police can log into your account and make sure that you're not using these accounts against their interests.

2:35:22
Unknown_00: Number nine, having a personal email or social networking account, including accounts set up for the purpose of engaging in online chats with others without supplying your offender manager a username within three days of this order being granted or within three days of supplying of and supplying any changes, which means you can't. Oh, so.

Unknown_00: You have to give them all your email addresses. It seems redundant. I'm not sure what the difference is between this and number seven, except that they explicitly includes personal email addresses. Number 10, making any vexatious complaints, allegations, publications, or threats against Stephanie Hayden. Number 11, using any device or computer capable of accessing the internet unless, I, you have notified the police managing offender or officer of the possession acquisition of such a device prior to its use and two, or II, you have been installed with monitoring, it has been installed with monitoring software that is approved and monitored by the police force in the area in which you reside unless such software is unavailable. and this is confirmed by writing in the police managing officer responsible for monitoring and point three it has the capacity to retain and display the history of internet use which includes but is not limited to internet messaging applications and that you do not delete any history or engage in any function such as private or incognito mode Browsing which restricts the ability to retain any displays such history For you are able to make the computer device immediately available on request for inspection Which will include the review of any communications data by a police officer or a member of the police managing team Which shall include removal of the device in order to facilitate the inspection The above prohibition shall not apply to a fixed desktop computer at your place of work Job Center plus public library educational establishment and other places so

2:36:26
Unknown_00: not only do you have to give them access to literally everything every kind of online account that you have the final point number 11 says that you cannot access the internet now i have to make a pedantic note that the internet is not specified they could be talking about the global internet which is a proper noun with a capital i but this internet has a lowercase i so it could be any any internet in existence um but i'll assume that it applies to all internets so

2:37:41
Unknown_00: Unless you have given them access you let them backdoor it and you don't use incognito mode because that would not record history so they want to be able to see literally everything that you do all the time and You have to be able to surrender every device that you have that can't connect to the internet at any time upon request So let's say that

Unknown_00: They withdrew, spoiler alert, they withdrew this complaint because she went public with it and it caused articles and shamed the Surrey police enough that they actually withdrew the complaint. However, I'm curious, what is the maximum penalty if they were to seize your device and realize, oh my God, she's open incognito mode?

Unknown_00: What is the penalty for that? Do they hang you by your thumbs at the Tower of London?

2:38:32
Unknown_05: I think I'd get a few years in prison.

Unknown_00: really because this is yeah because it's a yeah really yes yeah that's crazy crazy and you know i mean they didn't withdraw it it's really funny well not fun i can laugh now so i was telling you uh this week about this woman you've got more sympathy than i have uh she's definitely a lol cow called fiona ryan

Unknown_06: And she has been arrested and she's being investigated by the police under anti-terrorism laws. But then she's singing songs about how all Jewish people are Nazis and how she's wearing her anti-Semite badge with pride. And it's quite funny, some of the stuff she's coming out with.

2:39:06
Unknown_06: You know, I'm not really a TikTok user, but she's people getting really offended by her. But I think she's funny because she's just her output makes me laugh because it's just so lacking in any kind of self-awareness or knowledge or knowledge.

Unknown_06: Anyway, but she she got arrested and she was obviously known to the police because they searched her fridge and found class A drugs. And I think she was growing. She's alleged to have been growing cannabis plants and she had the whole heat set up. So she was arrested for terrorism charges for singing all this for this anti-Semitic. content that she was posting and she was saying oh yeah I love Hamas, Hamas are really proud of them they're doing a great job etc and

2:39:45
Unknown_06: you know they got her on drugs charges and she was let out on bail uh and her you know what she was uh arrested for was far more serious uh than what I was alleged to have done and yet her restrictions were a patch on what they were trying to do to me and my lawyer said you know he's quite seasoned and he said you know I've been in practice you know 25 years Caroline he said and I've I've dealt with pedophiles and I've dealt with, you know, an awful lot. And he said, no, I always say to people, it doesn't matter what you've done. Just tell me what you've done and we'll try and sort it out whichever way. And so he said, so, you know, I've heard all sorts and he said,

2:40:35
Unknown_06: I've not ever been so shocked or angry before, he said, because, you know, I've dealt with all these hardened criminals, and he said, and you're just like a completely law-abiding, you know, vicar's wife, who has never, you know, fallen foul of the criminal law in your life, and it's true, before all this transgender nonsense, you know, I've never, I've never had anything I've never been arrested or needed to be spoken to by the police, probably like most people. No shoplifting as I was a youth, no drunk driving, nothing. I've had a completely clear and unblemished criminal record. And suddenly within the space of a few years, because society has changed so much and saying a man is not a woman is hateful,

2:41:14
Unknown_06: I've got this whole heap of sort of nonsense at my door. Sorry, I can't even remember what point I was making. No, so my lawyer was just like, yeah, you know, this is crazy. This is the stuff that they would apply to paedophiles and terrorists. He said, I wouldn't be surprised to see this if you were some terrorist that was being released, licensed from prison, or a paedophile released on license from prison.

2:41:51
Unknown_06: And so the police really wanted to go ahead with this. They were really well up for it.

Unknown_06: And the reason it didn't go ahead was not because it went public, but because the day I was supposed to go to court, we got there nice and early. And the court clerk told us that there were 42 people being held in the cells who needed to be dealt with before my case, because this was a civil case being applied for by the police.

2:42:39
Unknown_06: to protect Stephanie Hayden during the course of the investigation. And these stalking protection orders are applied in cases where it's like complex domestic violence or something and they need to put something in place to protect the victim while they're sort of evidence gathering and interestingly yet again Stephanie Hayden when they were first introduced in 2017 posted that they were really terrible and that they presumed people were guilty and you know anybody could accuse anybody of anything and get a stalking order which is what he then went on to do and um

Unknown_06: During the time that the court was busy dealing with these 42 people in the cells, who'd probably also been misgendering, we said to the police barrister, you need to look at our submissions. You need to look at what we have to say. You need to look at our kind of counter allegations.

2:43:25
Unknown_06: And the police were like, oh, there's, you know, there's always counter allegations. Yeah, whatever. And we're like, no, you really do need to look at this. And because I had tweeted about what was happening, you know, the police were even keener to go ahead with it, to shut me up and to say, oh, she's broken braille by even talking about the fact that you want to silence her. So the police barrister, and this is the value of an independent bar, said,

2:43:59
Unknown_06: he wasn't, although the police is his client, he has a duty to the court. He opened up our submissions, looked at page one and went a bit pale.

Unknown_06: And then he read through and he was like, okay, I need time to go back to my client and get some advice because the police officer who was responsible for my arrest and who'd been pushing this all through she was off on leave it was a stand-in and he he saw what we were saying which was basically a I've not been stalking him and b

2:44:35
Unknown_06: actually you've just been given a one-sided account here's the sorts of things that he said about Caroline you know he's over the years he's threatened to come to her house with golf clubs you know and we got some of these golf golfing tweets that he'd made about jokes about playing golf near Surrey and we got a whole load of stuff that he'd said and we said look this is not

Unknown_06: stalking him at all.

Unknown_06: One of the things that they had said in their submissions was on my hard drive they had found 36 screenshots of me having saved his tweets and they said I had no business having those screenshots and it showed that I was obsessed and fixated.

Unknown_06: He'd said things like I'd managed to access his bank account details and

2:45:27
Unknown_06: And that had stemmed from the fact that a court order had been posted on Kiwi Farms and it had listed which banks he, you know, because he owed money, he'd been questioned in court and he had to list where he had the contents of his bank accounts to his creditors. So he claimed that I had done that. I hadn't. But even if I had, he said the fact that she has paid £11.50 to obtain a court order shows that she's obsessed and fixated with my private affairs. It's like, well... A, I didn't pay £11.50 to get your court order. But even if I had, that doesn't show, as you said, that I'm fixated or stalking. You're suing me for the third time. You owe money left, right and centre. Actually, yes, it's completely legitimate to sue. to have this information it's not stalking because it helps me because I'm in litigation with you but you know and it was my lawyer said this the police absolutely gaslighted so on one occasion he had tweeted about the fact that he had gone to Guilford police station which is my local police station he'd gone there to report me for something else and he'd eaten lunch at a restaurant that I take my children to quite regularly on a Sunday it's one of these You know, all you can eat buffet Sunday lunch places. And instead of eating lunch in Guildford, he'd gone to the nearest restaurant that I take my family to and posted that he was eating lunch there, which then just got me. Oh, my goodness. He's he's he's.

2:46:52
Unknown_06: stalking you know he's tweeting he's trying he's really trying to spook me out by posting about eating lunch in my local restaurant i take my kids to and the police have put oh you know poor stephanie hayden can't you know it's evident she's stalking him because she got upset when he ate in her local restaurant just um sorry are you still there josh this is

2:47:38
Unknown_00: What is your what is your because it's just bizarre that You see the police on the UK and you might assume based on what you hear about the British police that they might be like entirely foreign or like there's something something off about them in terms of like How they look, but no, they always look like regular British people who have just completely lost the plot. Like they've received a remote firmware update from the queen, or I guess now the king, and now they've just completely lost the ability to think or feel like a normal person. What is wrong with them?

Unknown_06: I think a lot of them are very young. There's been a couple of things happen. So successive governments have cut the numbers of police, so there aren't enough of them.

2:48:32
Unknown_06: Instead of recruiting people with a bit of common sense, they've gone for this whole diversity and inclusion agenda.

Unknown_06: You know, and a lot of the really experienced people, you know, you get, if you watch any British TV programmes about policing in the 70s or 80s, you know, they're all sort of hard, hardened common sense men who just wouldn't, wouldn't entertain any of this nonsense sadly these are all very young graduates who've got a bit of a power complex and they've also been on stonewall who are the leading lgbt lobby group in the uk or certainly were have managed to achieve institutional capture which means they've managed to go into all our publicly run institutions and train them so they've all the police forces have done this sort of stonewall diversity training which basically tells them that you know the LGBT community are the most depressed community ever and uh you know we we really need to uh do better and be better and and support them and so basically they uh elevate the LGBT community um above all others and if an LGBT person says that they're a victim or something they are automatically believed and prioritised and so I think the police genuinely and this particular police officer who arrested me and who has been dealing with my case and was responsible for this attempted you know stalking order I think she

2:49:17
Unknown_06: we know was like a member of the book, you know, I think they are genuinely horrified by me. They think I'm a terrible transphobe. And I've got awful views. And, and it's just shocking and dreadful. I mean, your player, but you know, I showed you the audio and the video of when I was arrested. And I said to them, this is disproportionate. And this big, burly six foot blokes going, No, it's not.

2:50:15
Unknown_06: No, it's not.

Unknown_06: And I think the arrest was this association with the the stalking claim? No, this was before. So this was the first arrest.

Unknown_00: I have an audio file that you asked me to get and I also have the video file that's kind of like cut apart and I'm curious which which one's which because you asked me to remove the video from one of them after like three minutes because you're inside the house as shown what which one so they're both the same occasion so that was both the same occasion I haven't got a video of the second time they arrested me

2:51:12
Unknown_06: because I was on my own. And so what happened was, I mean, this police woman is awful. I can't, you know, fine. She'll probably do me for harassment for saying she's awful, but she was. An example of what she was like was when she dropped me back home after my first arrest, Um, she said, well, you haven't been charged yet. And I said, well, I don't hold out much hope given that Kate Scottow was charged for calling him a pig in a wig. And she said, see, see, you've got it all up in your head. You're obsessed.

2:51:44
Unknown_00: Hold up. Okay. You're from, are you from Leeds?

Unknown_05: No, I'm from London.

Unknown_00: Are you living in Leeds though?

Unknown_05: No, no.

Unknown_05: no okay because someone someone in chat said that where where is leeds and surrey no okay and i was confused and while you were talking about this awful police woman i looked up the one that arrested the autistic teenager that said she looked like her lesbian nana yeah and i'm like is this the same person i saw they're also from from leeds and i thought oh this there's a good chance there's a non-zero chance this person's not from leeds but i guess i don't know my uk geography at all so leeds leeds is like uh up to the north uh whereas i'm in sort of just southwest of london

2:52:20
Unknown_06: Leeds, they have, oh, I won't even try.

Unknown_00: Leeds is in West Yorkshire, which you mentioned is worse than Surrey. Okay. I'm configuring this information in my head. Okay. What would you like me to play?

Unknown_05: Whatever you like. Whatever's funniest. I mean, I can laugh now. I probably won't laugh when I'm arrested tomorrow.

Unknown_00: is this um is the img 2533 is that the first thing that happened or oh this is 30 40 minutes oh no it's not that's uh my bad that's the extraction being wrong um i can't even see what you're playing yeah i know give me a second i'm thinking about how to do this

2:53:24
Unknown_00: I guess I'll play the video because the video is pretty compelling to see the people in the doorway. I will give you a link to the stream, which is usually pretty accurate. And this will be about 30 seconds behind, I want to say. I'll do a quick test to see how far behind it is.

Unknown_00: I just want you to be able to see what's going on.

Unknown_06: I'm sorry I've talked for so long. No problem.

2:54:01
Unknown_00: How did I lose this?

Unknown_06: But, you know, the point here really is just to share what happened and talk about how ludicrous it is. It's not to harass anybody. It's not to alarm anybody or distress or defame anybody. But I actually think what happened is an outrage and is very telling. And, you know, I'm at the point I can laugh about it. I won't be if I get another lawsuit, but hey.

Unknown_00: Yeah. Okay. So remind me, what is the context for this?

2:54:33
Unknown_00: This is the video that, uh, yeah, the video.

Unknown_06: Uh, so the context is, uh, literally them coming to my house on Monday, the 3rd of October, uh, and telling me they're arresting me, you know, last year, the first time I was arrested.

Unknown_00: Okay. And you're being arrested for, uh, malicious communications and harassment towards Hayden.

Unknown_06: Yeah.

Unknown_00: Okay.

Unknown_00: And what happened with this?

2:55:06
Unknown_06: Sorry, are you playing it?

Unknown_00: Not yet. I just want to know what's the outcome of this.

Unknown_06: So this was all part of it, right? So I was arrested. They just came to my door one Monday afternoon and arrested me completely out of the blue for malicious communications and harassment for a course of conduct between February 22 and July 22.

Unknown_06: And as I said to them, you're arrested, it's October, and yet you're, why do you have to come to my house and arrest me? Why couldn't you run me up or whatever? And they're like, well, we have to seize all your devices.

2:55:38
Unknown_06: So they literally just came to my door and arrested me. You know, and then...

Unknown_06: I was under investigation for malicious communications and harassment. And then during the period they were investigating, Hayden went back to the police and put in another five complaints. So they then arrested me for a second time in April 2023 to talk about what else he was accusing me of. And the reason that they arrested me a second time was...

2:56:14
Unknown_06: It was awful. It was my birthday and the police... I mean, this is crazy that the police can arrest you without having a case.

Unknown_06: He says, we've got to arrest you to get proof, to get evidence.

Unknown_00: No wonder why we started shooting at you.

Unknown_00: Now everything about the U S legal system makes so much more sense to me. Cause it's like we, at some point it broke and people were like, we gotta get the fuck away from, from the British.

2:56:52
Unknown_00: It's crazy. Cause once they make an arrest, they either have to, um, get charges immediately or they have to let you go. And then I think.

Unknown_00: I'm not entirely sure, but it's like they don't make an arrest just to talk to you. That's not how it works.

Unknown_00: Okay, I'll just play it. So this is them. They are arresting you so that they can talk to you under caution, which is them letting you know that they're actively trying to screw you over. So be careful what you say because they're out to get you at that point.

2:57:27
Unknown_00: And I think when they say under caution, that also means that you have the right to ask for a solicitor.

Unknown_05: yeah when you ask for a solicitor does that end the conversation or no no no so because this is also different if you um once you're under caution you ask for a solicitor or a barist or whatever um they they can still talk to you but your your uh your advisor is there to warn you about answering certain questions or not to answer certain questions or something

Unknown_06: yeah so that's under so basically they arrest you and they read you your rights and they say you have the right to remain silent but anything you do say may be taken down and used in evidence against you and if you seek to rely on something that you haven't said you know so so the best thing to do is it's like yeah that's right it's like the opposite because they're they're telling you you have the right to remain silent but be careful if you don't tell us um anything that you later rely on in evidence yeah

2:58:21
Unknown_00: Because it's like if you don't tell them something, then that denies you the right to bring it up later. You can't construct a defense off of things you didn't tell the police. So you have to tell the police things, even up front, even if they don't have information to charge you with. That's why they put you under arrest. It's literally the exact opposite of the United States. It's very bizarre.

Unknown_06: So, yeah, so this was the first time they arrested me. And then the second time they came was they wanted, he'd put in another five complaints. And she told me this on the phone that they wanted to talk to me about. And again, this was all off my Twitter feed and that he was blocked from and he'd got stuff off Getter. And do you remember that Ruben Remus? Oh, my goodness. Maybe that will come in later. That featured into it as well.

2:58:57
Unknown_06: So, you know, there was this Ruben Remus account that came onto Kiwi Farms and was just like non-stop obsessing.

Unknown_06: Yeah.

Unknown_00: I'll just play this. I want to, cause I want to show the, the rest, I guess.

Unknown_00: So again, this is like, I think four minutes and then afterwards it's all audio. I've normalized the audio. So you should be able to hear things a little bit better. I'm going to cringe. Yeah. If you, I mean, you can listen to the stream. I'll just kind of remain silent throughout it. And if you want to pause at any point, just let me know. The kick link that I gave you is about five to 10 seconds behind. So just keep that in mind. I'll play that now.

2:59:30
Unknown_07: Social media towards a person called Stephanie Hayden.

Unknown_00: I don't want you in my house.

Unknown_07: Please get rid of my daughter. So you're under arrest, okay, for me to investigate that matter further by way of a taped interview. Okay, so you're under arrest for the offence of malicious communications and harassment during the dates I've explained, due to the allegation I've explained. You do not have to say anything, but it may harm your defence if you do not mention or question something which you later allow any court, and anything you do say may be given in evidence. The reason for your arrest, okay, is for a prompt and effective investigation... and for us to obtain forensic digital evidence relating to the offences. Do you have a warrant?

3:00:04
Unknown_01: You don't need one. So you've been arrested, okay?

Unknown_07: Robin, are you filming this?

Unknown_01: I'm filming this, yes.

Unknown_07: Because my understanding is they cannot come in my house without a warrant.

Unknown_05: Okay, so what am I supposed to have done?

Unknown_06: Basically, an allegation that you are harassing her because of the stuff that has been posted online is an allegation and we need to investigate that.

Unknown_01: In order to do that, you're being arrested so that we can interview you in a police station called an interview on the stage in order to do that.

3:00:46
Unknown_01: and also as part of it because it's online articles have been used on like sort of electronic devices and they we're going to be needing to seize electronic devices in order to prove the offenses electronic devices are in the church so you'll need a warrant to come into the church that's fine because we can get the section 18 section 18 paperwork but anything that's inside the house at the moment we have the power because under section 32 to come in so you're going to take my work computer Whatever computers belong to you. Well, I've only got my work computer. Mobile phones, so mobile phones, computers.

Unknown_06: It's in the church office, so you'll need a warrant.

Unknown_01: So that's fine. But again, we will need access to them. That's fine. But like I say, you are under arrest. We do have the power.

Unknown_07: Can you tell me what I'm supposed to do?

Unknown_06: I've told you enough so far. This is outrageous, right? I have five kids, right? My daughter in there... has profound autism. She doesn't have a school place, right? Okay. I have my children coming home from school and you are basically trying to arrest me.

3:01:39
Unknown_01: You are under arrest. You are under arrest. We're not trying to. You are under arrest now. The words have been said. So what's going to happen is... This is outrageous.

Unknown_06: Darling, okay, can I just tell you? I've got the chicken in the oven. I put the chicken in at half four. The chicken should be ready at about six, so you'll need to do, like, the potatoes and the vegetables. I can't believe... I mean, he is outrageous and out of control.

3:02:12
Unknown_03: It is, nonetheless.

Unknown_03: We've received an allegation and we have to act on that.

Unknown_07: Well, that's not actually true because you've had about 400 allegations, Stephanie Hayden.

Unknown_03: This is completely disproportionate. You're coming round my house in September, in October, to arrest me for something I've said between February and July.

Unknown_06: Stephanie Hayden... Be Aware has done things like has doxxed my daughter.

Unknown_01: Remember, everything that you're saying is obviously being recorded. I would urge you to say it when you get interviewed after you've spoken to your solicitor.

3:02:44
Unknown_07: But do you not think that this is a really... Can I suggest we get you a solicitor?

Unknown_06: Yeah, yeah. Can you phone up... I don't know your solicitor.

Unknown_01: I'll try to ring them today because my strikeout... So you can either organise your own solicitor or you can have one, obviously, where you're under arrest, you can have free and independent legal advice, which is a duty solicitor, which is provided. I mean, do you not feel...

Unknown_08: Can I just ask you a question?

Unknown_07: I'm not going to give you my opinion on anything. Do you not feel that this is a complete disproportionate waste of time?

Unknown_06: No, not at all. We have a job to investigate the fences, don't we? I just think this is outrageous. I think it's outrageous that you're coming around to... I do put this on social media. I think this is outrageous that you're coming around to my house.

3:03:19
Unknown_06: You're coming around to my house. I've got five kids. Well, four. One's at university. I've got a severely autistic child. I'm trying to get dinner ready. And you're coming around to... Could you not ring me up?

Unknown_07: No. I couldn't have rung you up because I need to search your property.

Unknown_01: We need to search your property for electronic devices which may be used in the commission of the offences and that's partly one of the reasons.

Unknown_08: You can't go in the church office because you don't have a warrant for the church office.

Unknown_01: So basically what do you have in here which is your electronic devices?

Unknown_08: The only thing I have is... I am going to come in Caroline because I'm allowed to. This is my work homework.

3:03:54
Unknown_01: That's fine. So you're taking my work homework? Any electronic devices which are linked to you, I'd suggest just closing everything down. When am I going to... My work will be very cross about this because this is what I used to do my work on. Just shut it down, that's fine.

Unknown_08: That's all I have really. I just work on my clothes.

3:04:30
Unknown_01: Is there a monitor for the computer?

Unknown_01: I mean, sorry, a computer tower even. No, it's just the laptop. Okay, so just your laptop which runs with everything. Okay, is it password protected?

Unknown_08: Yes, it is.

Unknown_01: Okay, we will need the password because we will need to potentially do downloads and everything in order to do that. Well, I need legal advice because I don't know if I can give you the password. That's fine.

Unknown_08: No worries. That's all I have. Thank you.

Unknown_01: So what about mobile phones then, personal mobile phones?

Unknown_08: I do have a mobile phone. That will be me as well.

3:05:02
Unknown_08: I'm not letting you into the search office.

Unknown_01: That's fine. Just to let you know, obviously, if we go there and anything's been moved or anything like that, you know, that could be an offence or stuff like that. That's absolutely fine. So, as a case of... Only computers and electronic devices which are linked to you.

Unknown_06: And how long are you going to hold me in custody for?

Unknown_01: So, we can hold you in custody for up to 24 hours. That's marvellous, isn't it? But we plan to do... Well, I'm in custody. Why won't you hold me in a police cell?

Unknown_04: Would you like to... Can you go back in the office, please, Teddy?

Unknown_02: Teddy, go back in the office now. What? Because the police are here. They're back in the office now. Why? They're back in the office now. My God, these policemen are arresting me.

3:05:34
Unknown_01: Okay, so any other electronic devices which I'll link to you within this building?

Unknown_08: No.

Unknown_01: Okay. Is the church actually attached to the house or is it a separate building altogether? It's...

Unknown_01: I mean, I know it's actually built into the side of the church, basically.

Unknown_03: The house attaches to the church, but it's a separate property. Separate bills, separate electricity. This is my home. That's the business. That's fine. Okay.

3:06:05
Unknown_07: So you need a warrant to go to my business, in my husband's church, to get my... Well, not a warrant. We need a Section 18 paper work. So we can come back and do that.

Unknown_01: Well, we can get... No, Section 18... Can we get it now? Yeah, that's a good point. We can get that done now. Yeah, we can do an 18-5. Yeah.

Unknown_07: Lovely, do you know where my phone is in the office?

Unknown_01: I have no idea. It's over that. If you want to tell us where it is and we can get it all now, and then that way, if anything, it makes life easy, doesn't it? And then obviously... You know where it is, don't you? And then that way, it then actually causes less distress for everyone, because otherwise... Yeah, do you know... Because if you know where it is... I don't know, I can have a look.

3:06:43
Unknown_08: Because basically what I'm concerned about, if you don't mind sir listening to us, I would like to come with you into the church.

Unknown_01: No, listen to me because I'd like to actually watch it and actually physically watch it because I'll be honest. I understand that. I'm concerned that people, I'm listening, I'm concerned that it could be altered and potential evidence could be deleted. I completely understand that but I'm afraid we have very little trust in the police.

Unknown_03: That's fair. Who have not investigated all the allegations, the physical threats of violence against my wife by the person you're now coming to investigate. So we, I'm afraid, have very little trust in you. Well, that's fine then.

Unknown_01: What I suggest then is obviously not going in there until we've got paperwork then, until we can do that. Because obviously I'm concerned that potential evidence could be lost.

3:07:21
Unknown_01: And if that does happen... you know, it is potentially an offence of assisting an offender and you may, whoever, may be arrested for it and then obviously, you know, prison offences and so forth, you know, that could happen. But it only happens if I do something illegal which I have no intention of doing. And that's what I'm saying and that's what I'm just sort of slightly concerned about, obviously, and that's why, obviously, continuity and evidence and stuff like that in order to prevent that, that's why I would have liked to have come with you in order to do that. Can I just say, Stephanie Hayden is a man.

Unknown_06: Can you put that down in evidence against me?

Unknown_03: Lovely, can you just stop it, please? You're not helping yourself.

Unknown_06: Stephanie Hayden is a man. Let's be very clear about this.

3:07:54
Unknown_03: Since you're under caution, don't talk without... I know you are, but can you please talk with your solicitor?

Unknown_08: I just can't believe that, you know, you're coming round... Do you know, I mean, he has done stuff like...

Unknown_06: Doc's my daughter's university. I'll remind you again that the best time to talk about this is when you get interviewed.

Unknown_03: Lovely.

Unknown_03: This is good advice. Please put you under caution. So let's get Lisa Lister involved.

3:08:27
Unknown_06: I'll be so happy, won't I? I mean, I don't know how I'm going to do my job. Can you do a few things for me? Can you try and contact work to tell work that my work computer has been seized?

Unknown_03: I don't know how to do that. I've got no contact with your work, have I?

Unknown_08: I know. I don't know what to do.

Unknown_03: Well, no, I don't know what to do either, obviously.

Unknown_08: But, you know, I'm going to lose my job now because I've taken my workbook.

3:08:59
Unknown_08: Well, you'll get it back. Yeah, but when? Not for months.

Unknown_07: I just find this utter... Well, I'm not allowed to go and look.

Unknown_03: There will be looks, so, you know.

Unknown_07: We could have done it two ways. We could either have gone in there... with you but obviously you see you don't trust the police fair enough or we'll just get what's called a pace and then you'll come anyway so you know they might come and seize your computer and everything and teddy's computer that's the problem we've got a daughter okay but we only want to take what i'm going to take your devices that's all i'm going to take i'm going to take your phone and i'm going to take your um am i allowed to go and do a wee before i'm arrested you're under arrest now but before we leave yeah you can okay when can i go do a wee in a minute when lee comes back in Do you need to come with me to go to the loo? I don't need to come in the loo with you. But I don't need to come in the loo with you. But obviously now you're under arrest, we've got a duty of care towards you. The same as everyone else that we arrest. You make me laugh, I know.

3:09:41
Unknown_03: Absolutely laughable.

Unknown_07: Okay, yeah, then I will follow you around the house because you're under arrest. Oh God, what are you like?

Unknown_05: Just, you know, we were just living in a utopia, well,

Unknown_03: Certainly older than your taper, is it? I'm a bit worried about what happens when Felicity and Imogen come home and see these roses here.

3:10:16
Unknown_05: And also, gosh, I'm not going to get my... So, I'm just going to get a pen and pencil so I can write down there with your solicitors, because I need to contact them before you, presumably.

Unknown_04: Oh, dear.

Unknown_03: I've got enough going on trying to sort out school places.

Unknown_03: There's so much hate against you.

Unknown_07: There's no point talking to this police officer because they're not actually doing anything other than arresting you.

3:11:02
Unknown_03: Can you give me the name of your solicitor, please?

Unknown_07: Tom Ellis.

Unknown_07: But my solicitor's in Liverpool, for goodness sake. Okay, but then they'll need to find a representative.

Unknown_03: So, Tom Ellis, love.

Unknown_07: Tom Ellis and Sam Driver.

Unknown_08: Oh, I suppose Adrian can't really help me either, can he?

3:11:35
Unknown_02: And their law firm?

Unknown_08: AI Law.

Unknown_01: That's fine. But they're in Liverpool. Okay, that's fine.

Unknown_08: Can you also see if you can get hold of Louise Moody and tell her? Yeah.

Unknown_00: All right, that's the end of it. So I will unmute her because she's been listening with a phone so she can hear it the entire time.

Unknown_06: Hello. Hello. Sorry about the playback loop.

Unknown_00: No problem.

Unknown_00: I don't know. I have a feeling that if that happened to me, I would be dead. They would have to call in the armed police because I would lose my mind. I would become belligerent and unreasonable. There's just something like police suck. Like in the US, police suck. Everyone knows that they suck. Police know that they suck. The police wives actually know they suck too. Police have the highest rate of divorce in the country and infidelity in the country because even their wives know that they suck. um but i mean if the i i have never thankfully in in the u.s um the police are just when they talk they sound stupid in the uk they sound stupid but they also have a very pompous british accent which uh kind of drives a bloodlust and someone's a reasonable person's mind when they hear it just uh especially especially the the round boy uh with this oh goodness oh my gosh

3:12:57
Unknown_00: i don't know he just he has a he has a character to him and i know that you know to you guys he's just like a a bloke in the country right but to me it's like he's he's typecasted as like the idiot in like a movie that has british people in it well the thing is you should play the other cliff actually of what he said to me when we were driving off but um

Unknown_06: Well, listening to that actually, I was a bit embarrassed because I could also hear I sounded really whingy, and I don't normally sound whingy, but yeah.

Unknown_00: I mean, it's exasperating to be told that you're under arrest for allegations, and also they're going to completely ransack your house and all of your computers, and then also your office, because apparently your house is attached to your parish. Yeah, yeah. And they're going to ransack your parish's office too.

Unknown_06: And what I didn't share with you. So, well, a couple of things was firstly, I still haven't got my work computer and other devices. I've had one that they seized a bunch of devices. I've only had one back.

3:13:52
Unknown_08: Really?

Unknown_06: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And this, this piece... After a year? Yeah, yeah. This piece, this is how appalling, you know, she, this is, I think she had it in for me, right? So... So eventually they sent it all. So the second time. Well, no, I'll just talk about this first. But recently I've heard back from the Crown Prosecution Service. So in order to be charged, something has to pass two limbs. There's two limbs of the test. One is the evidential limb and the second limb is in the public interest. My case didn't even pass the evidential limb. So despite all of that and ransacking of all my devices, the Crown Prosecution Service, who are the people who decide whether or not you're going to be charged with something, decided that no, there wasn't enough evidence. Because sometimes if there is enough evidence, they'll then think, well, is this really in the public interest? But it didn't even get past that evidential stage. So I should have had my devices back. And when this woman emailed me to tell me or emailed my solicitor to tell me that they weren't charging and, you know, could I have to make arrangements to get my devices back? So this was well over a month ago. I think this was sort of mid-October. And she...

3:15:05
Unknown_06: still you know she said yes yes yes you can have them back uh but I need to arrange for them to be brought from the store and you can pick them up at the police station so we made a date for that to happen and uh then she that morning we heard nothing from her it's like oh sorry I was off sick yeah I'm sure you were so then my husband had to go I mean there's no way I ever want to see her again so I sent my poor husband to go and do it um and he he then went to pick up the devices and he only got one because she said the others were being held off site in another part of Surrey and the place they were being held off site would contact us and we haven't had any contact from them at all so out of all the devices they seized we've only had one back. And what they did was, I didn't show you the next part of the video, when they went into the office and the children were in there. In fact, I had a bit of a shock because my two eldest children suddenly sort of appeared like they'd apparated. I was like, where did you come from? They said, oh, we saw the police cars.

3:15:41
Unknown_06: We saw the police, so we came in round the back.

Unknown_06: And so my children were in the office and they were playing on their devices. Fortunately, one of them was playing on their Switch. And they were like, is that mummy's? You know, has mummy got access to that?

3:16:30
Unknown_00: Is your mum bing bing wahooing and playing Mario Kart?

Unknown_06: And they, you know, fortunately, obviously my husband was there because we were worried they were going to seize all the parish stuff as well.

Unknown_06: um but they saw my kids with devices and my my kids are pretty guileless and they don't lie so they said oh does mommy have access to that uh and they said yes because because i do because they're children and they're not allowed unsupervised internet access so um yeah they they they they uh took all the kids devices and put them sorry um sorry um

3:17:14
Unknown_06: Sorry, I was trying to look at chat and the sound came out. So, yeah, they... You haven't gotten the Nintendo Switch back? No, they didn't take the Nintendo Switch, fortunately.

Unknown_06: But they took all the iPads. That's crazy.

Unknown_00: That's bizarre. They're going to find, between episodes of Blue Ear, they're going to find the smoking gun that they've been harassing whoever? Yeah.

Unknown_06: And my daughter did have to persuade them not to take her switch and that mummy never. The only thing mummy ever does on the switch is put in the password to increase her screen time.

3:17:53
Unknown_06: You know, she was getting quite upset. So they didn't take the switch, fortunately. But they took all the kids iPads as well. We haven't got loads of iPads.

Unknown_06: But my daughter had one for her school. You know, she wasn't in school. So she had it for her schoolwork. And also she has this addiction to Harry Potter. It's like a calming mechanism. So whenever she's feeling dysregulated, she listens to Harry Potter. I'm really bored of it now. But she listens to Harry Potter on Audible. So that helps her sort of regulate and calm down. So they took that and they took an actual iPad and they took like Amazon Fires and, you know, the kids. Crazy, crazy.

3:18:27
Unknown_04: Yeah, that's insane.

Unknown_06: And what was really – what I couldn't quite get over, so all of that – And it's just nonsense.

Unknown_00: Cause it's like, it's, it's a Kindle. Like, okay, it's going to be, you know, kids books, Harry Potter, little, you know, classic English story tales. Are they trying to find mine comp? They would have found it by now, you know?

Unknown_06: And what they were, it was, you see, I thought this was really bizarre because I know before people get called in for interview over Twitter. So I thought, why are they arresting me? And you heard me giving it out to them when I was arrested. Oh, my goodness. You should have heard me in the car.

3:19:08
Unknown_06: I really gave it some, as in, I was just so angry. And I was saying to them, when you go home tonight, what are you going to tell your wives? What are you going to tell your partners? Oh, yeah, I arrested this really dodgy Catholic woman, you know, who's been saying things on the internet, you know. I said, is this really what you joined the police force to do, to be arresting Catholic women or, you know, arresting mothers at tea time because they've upset somebody on the Internet? I mean, this is this is crazy.

3:19:42
Unknown_06: And then, you know, they take you to the police station and you go into the criminal entrance and they put you in this sort of holding thing and they try and find out if you're on any medication and they sort of try and calm you down before putting you in a cell.

Unknown_06: And I was still, I was, you know, it wasn't like being abusive, but I was, you know, being a bit gobby or mousy. Just, you know, this is just so outrageous. And before, as they were booking me into the custody suite, the sergeant said, you know, he looked a bit surprised because, you know, I didn't sort of look the sort to be. And he said, what's she here for?

3:20:19
Unknown_06: What's this about? And they said, oh, it's malicious communications. And he said, oh, Mrs. Farrow. He said, sending people abusive emails is a crime, you know. And they said, oh, no, Sarge. She's not sent people abusive emails.

Unknown_06: She's written offensive posts on the Internet.

Unknown_05: And I was like, can you hear yourselves?

Unknown_06: And I said, I did say, can you actually hear yourselves? You know, and there they are taking all my jewelry off me and they're making me lift my legs up so they can check my socks for drugs. You know, I said, this is surreal. One minute I'm cooking the chicken and the next minute you're checking my socks for drugs because somebody's offended on the Internet. and they said i said you know you know everything i write i write my own name so i don't see the need to seize on my devices and they said ah oh well that's the thing you see ah you know that's what we need to talk to you about and in fact an interview it transpired there was a poster on kiwi farms called um kitkat who posted uh lots of photoshopped memes of stephanie hayden um and he had one of the memes was deemed grossly offensive because it was uh hayden in a gas chamber and um someone's pressing the button saying tranny gas

3:21:39
Unknown_06: Anyway, they showed me this cartoon, and they said, now what do you think of this?

Unknown_06: Literally, they said, what do you think of this? And I said, well, it's not really my taste. And they said, why not? I said, it's not really my taste.

Unknown_00: Why don't you find this gas chamber mean funny, huh, lady?

Unknown_06: I just said, well, no, it does make me recoil a bit. And they said, who are these people? And I said, well, that's clearly Stephanie Hayden in the gas chamber. And they said, who's this person pressing the button? And I genuinely, I said, I think that's Adrian Harrop. I said, I can't really tell. I think that's Adrian Harrop pressing the button, isn't it? And they said, no, no, it's Graham Linehan. I said, oh, really? I didn't realise. I said, oh, okay. Who's Graham Linehan?

3:22:13
Unknown_06: It's like, well, okay. You just told me it's Graham Linehan and now you're saying, who is he?

Unknown_05: And then they showed me this picture of

Unknown_00: What's funny about that is that if you take a class on how to be a police officer and how to do an interrogation, you would not ask questions like that. There's like an art artistry to it to get someone comfortable and to reveal information, to show what they have and to feel like you're on their side.

3:22:55
Unknown_06: I think they did a bit of that. They said, oh, tell us about when Hayden came to your house. And I said, well, actually, it was horrible. You know, and I actually rang you because I just thought it was such an invasion of my privacy.

Unknown_00: We sat her down for tea and crisps.

Unknown_05: Crisps. We had a cucumber salad. Scones and jam. Scones and jam. So we had a cream tea and Earl Grey.

Unknown_06: And then she showed me this picture of the Queen and her corgis, which had Hayden's face photoshopped on it. That was pretty funny. And I had to really try hard not to laugh, because I know that goes against you, but it was literally... Have you seen The Life of Brian?

3:23:33
Unknown_00: No, I have not.

Unknown_06: Oh, the Monty Python film, Life of Brian.

Unknown_06: Oh, you need to see it, Josh. It's hysterical. You've got this senator saying, called Biggus Dickus. And you've got this Roman, you know, what do you call a normal person in the rank of Roman soldier? It's just a legionnaire, right? Yeah. So you've got this sort of legionnaire.

3:24:06
Unknown_06: And they're going, do you think the name Biggus Dickus is funny? What's so funny about Biggus Dickus?

Unknown_06: And you can see this legionnaire really trying not to burst out laughing and his lips wobbling and they're deliberately...

Unknown_06: my friend is bigger stickers and his his wife is called incontinentia buttock you know and then this person just exploded laughter but it was like that you know they were showing me this picture of Hayden it was very well done it was the Queen and Hayden's face the queen I was just trying that was my life of Brian moment I was trying so hard not to laugh because it was hilarious And then they showed me posts written by real mother foyer who, you know, Hayden has been obsessed with finding out who this person is saying, what's this all about then? I said, I don't know. I didn't write it. You'll have to find the person that did.

3:24:59
Unknown_06: And they were saying, but what's this about then? And then they showed this.

Unknown_06: They're saying, can you explain this? So and it looked like he'd been quoting Mumsnet. And I said, so look, it looks like he's done a screenshot of Mumsnet, doesn't it? And they said, who are these people on Mumsnet? This person, Bernard Black's wine ice lolly, is that you? It was surreal. Are you this person? Are you that person? And the reason that they thought that I was Kit Kat was because in a statement, because I saw this in the stalking protection order, Hayden had said that I regularly post photoshopped pictures of him onto my Twitter feed. Of course, he hadn't provided any evidence, had he? You know, he's got all my other Twitter feed, but not that.

3:25:40
Unknown_06: So that was basically the reason why they arrested me, was because of the memes. Because when there was this big outcry and everyone was tagging in Surrey Police and saying... What are you up to? What are you playing at? And they said, well, this woman was arrested on, you know, when grossly offensive material is said to have been posted, you know, we have to investigate. So it basically was, I think, that gas chamber meme. They decided Hayden managed to persuade them that, you know, there was a very strong suspicion it could be me. And that was what nudged it into arrest territory.

3:26:13
Unknown_00: Yeah. The whole thing's crazy. I feel kind of bad because we're three and a half hours in. Yeah, it's past midnight. It's even past midnight for you. I feel kind of bad, but I feel like we haven't even touched half of it because all the Adrian Yollop stuff...

3:26:46
Unknown_06: how yeah adrian harrop there's two agents adrian harrop and adrian yelland no and i mean adrian yelland will be very upset to be um compared i mean i mean it's insane and then they i mean in a nutshell they then came again six months later and they arrested me i was in the shower this time and they had rung me up on my birthday and said that they wanted which was nice so that they needed to talk to me under caution again and my solicitors had written to them and said this woman is pretty vulnerable actually she's been the victim of stalking she's really traumatized we want to know what measures you're going to put in place to protect her actually and um

3:27:21
Unknown_06: She can't even do this time that you want her to go to because I had to take my daughter to an autistic support group that she attends, which, you know, it's not like a social thing. This is part of her education provision.

Unknown_06: So I told them I couldn't make it. I dropped her off, came back home. I was in the shower and there's literally four of them trying to take the door off the hinges.

Unknown_06: So I came back down and I was in a towel and I said, you know, I was quite cross with them. And they said, we'll give you 15 minutes to get dressed.

3:28:13
Unknown_06: So I got dressed. I did say on Twitter, oh my goodness, I'm in a towel and they're arresting me.

Unknown_06: So they then came and arrested me again and put me in custody again for another seven or eight hours before asking me facile questions.

Unknown_06: And one of the questions they asked me was what's a troon and what's a tranny?

Unknown_00: You know, it really sounds like the cops, they do have it out for you because they somehow have talked to Stephanie Hayden. I thought, oh, my God, this poor woman.

3:28:46
Unknown_06: well I've been told so they told me right when they said that so uh this article was published in Redux you know detailing his his convictions and I because I was on bail and I couldn't talk about him I said everyone should be reading and supporting Redux uh which I didn't mention him it had nothing to do with him and they immediately emailed my solicitor and said well this isn't a breach of bail per se but you know tell her to mind how she goes you know it was like And we came back very short shrift saying, well, look, my client often talks about other news outlets which have mentioned Stephanie Hayden. So what are you saying here? And actually, why are you monitoring her Twitter feed and telling her what she can and can't say? She's not in breach of bail. And they went away. And when they told me that I wasn't going to be charged, the police officer said,

Unknown_06: that the CPS had said that if I ever mentioned Stephanie Hayden's name again, I could be charged for harassment. So my solicitor said that doesn't sound right and asked the police officer, could you tell me, could you give me the exact wording of what the CPS said? And the CPS had given the standard warning that you know we're not charging there's no evidence but if fresh evidence ever comes to light then we might reconsider the decision you know it's a standard thing that they say to everybody you know we haven't found the evidence but that doesn't mean that if in the future uh we you know we

3:29:44
Unknown_06: It's just a standard. It's not saying, oh, we're definitely going to come out. I suppose it's if compelling evidence turned up. So she translated the standard wording that CPS gives to everybody if further evidence comes to light in the future.

3:30:23
Unknown_00: Well, she's just threatening you because she knows that it's traumatizing for a normal person to be abducted out of their home by the state. And it's just like, it's like, it's time consuming. It fucks up your whole day. It ruins your schedule. You have a bunch going on and like throws you off. You just haven't gotten your computers back. So she's just like threatening you implicitly. I would have filed a complaint against her.

Unknown_06: Well, we're considering what we're going to do next. I mean, probably I should imagine because of this stream, Hayden will go back to the police and play it and say she's harassing me. But I'm not harassing because my aim is not to cause alarm and distress. Hayden is blocked from my Twitter feed. So, you know, I'm sure he'll claim someone sent it to him, but he doesn't have to sit and listen through three and a half hours.

3:30:59
Unknown_00: I don't know how they can say, don't read this person's Twitter feed. Like that's literally, it felt like everything's the opposite in the UK. In the US it's, if you make it public, you make it public. Everybody can look at it. That's the whole point of like a social media feeds. How can they say, don't read this person's tweets? It's like, if you feel so threatened by the repercussions of people reading your tweets, the obvious answer to that is to stop tweeting.

3:31:35
Unknown_06: Yeah, well, I mean, I think it kind of goes the other way slightly. And, you know, Hayden says my tweets cause him alarm and distress and the Kiwi Farms causes him alarm and distress. Well, if something's really triggering you and causing you alarm and distress, just don't look at it. um and the aim of this you know i i i'll finish by being really clear i know that the kiwi farmers is very much you are you we exist to laugh at people not to you know you have a saying don't touch the poo uh so i'm just talking about this because i think it's worth talking about and it helps you know i want to get my story out there and i think You know, I'm not going to be silenced and I want to talk about it. It's cathartic. I'm not talking about this to cause anybody alarm and distress. I'm not talking about it. I don't want anyone to start tweeting him. I don't want anyone to send him anything to his address or, you know, just...

3:32:24
Unknown_06: You know, this is not, please don't, basically I'm saying, please don't do anything that could give Stephanie Hayden a reason to say, she's harassing me by proxy. She's speaking to these Kiwi farmers. She knows what they're like. Oh, I've had death threats. I've had this, that, and the other, and it's all her fault. Actually, anybody making death threats or rape threats, rape threats even, or whatever threats they make, or arson threats allegedly, that's the fault of that person making threats.

3:33:07
Unknown_06: You know, if you're so out of control and unhinged that you have to threaten people because of their words, that's your problem, not the... not the fault of the person telling their story so uh i'm not doing this my intention in doing this is just to kind of share my story because i think the police are out of control i think the legal system's out of control uh and i think society has uh fallen to the uh to the menace of gender ideology so you know no i mean that that's my caveat really

Unknown_00: Yeah, it's crazy to me. It just feels like, I don't know, you're being, you have found somebody who is like above average intelligence, but who is also like a predator who enjoys exerting control and influence over people and who has realized that the enforcers of law in the United Kingdom are below average intelligence and easily manipulated. And despite that, they can just ruin your day over and over again through any complaint. Yeah.

3:33:59
Unknown_06: And bear in mind, Hayden has a lot of extensive experience with the police, both in terms of his own criminal record and making complaints against others. So he himself, I mean, he has been arrested for harassment. The case fell apart in court. It's funny because I said to the police, look, Stephanie Hayden knows how to word a complaint just so. He's got enough knowledge to make him very dangerous, so he knows how to word a complaint. He knows which words to say to trigger things. So, for example, there's a stalking checklist of behaviours, a risk assessment. So he managed in his complaint, I think, to...

3:34:37
Unknown_06: trigger all the, you know, to use exactly the right wording to trigger certain action and the right buttons to press.

Unknown_05: And every time he makes a complaint, he gets better at it.

Unknown_06: So and I said this to the police and the police said, oh, he says the same thing. Well, she called him, but he says the same thing about you.

Unknown_06: But actually, he does. He he's written so many. He's complained. So I'm the third woman he's had arrested. He had Kate Scott out arrested. He's had Bronwyn Dickinson arrested. He had me arrested. He's had another guy called Darren Duckworth arrested. This year, he's had another woman interviewed under caution. He also had a friend of Louise Moody. I haven't really talked about her. She's someone that he sued three times. He did things like her wife died very suddenly. She just, you know, awful. She dropped down dead of a blood clot. And Hayden looked up Louise's grant of probate to see how much money she had inherited from her wife and then began to mock her about the amount of money that she'd inherited from her wife and the fact that her house, he'd looked up the title deeds of her house and mocked her because her house was converted. You know, and he's the one claiming stalking.

3:35:45
Unknown_06: I mean, the whole thing he did with Louise Moody is completely insane. But he reported her to the police. This is his modus operandi. He he reports people to the police it's always a two-pronged approach he approach he reports you to the police and then he sues you at the same time and i think sometimes he reports you to the police because he likes the power and control but he's also hoping that the police can get the evidence he can use in the civil case and of course um after i got arrested he sued an organization called the family education trust because they tweeted how horrified they were at what happened to me and how terrible they thought it was that a man, someone can take advantage of the legal system like this. So he immediately sued them for defamation, even though, you know, that he was blocked from their Twitter account and he lost. You know, the judge said his case was completely hopeless. But this is what he tries, you know, not only does he sue you, but he tries to sue anybody else who supports you or says anything in support of you.

3:36:55
Unknown_06: Yeah, it's this two-pronged approach. And then, sorry, in this case, that's why I brought up the Family Education Trust, in his Family Education Trust case, he made great store of that. Well, Caroline Farrow, she's been arrested twice and she's been investigated for stalking, you know, and all this is all still ongoing. So he uses it to sort of

3:37:37
Unknown_00: Very, very familiar tactic. A very familiar tactic. It's just like, it's such not, especially in the UK, it should mean nothing. Like, you got arrested, that's because someone made an allegation, apparently.

Unknown_06: Well, one thing though, Josh, one of my lawyers said to me, he's an ex-copper, and he said, you don't realise, he said, I stopped being a copper because, he said, I realised that I wasn't becoming a very nice person. And he said, you know, the police forget that actually being arrested is very traumatic. is very traumatic and very you know and for them they arrest people every single day you know it's part and parcel of their job and they're completely inured to it and they have no clue you know and so yes I found the whole thing really traumatic but I don't think I don't think that they necessarily realized how traumatic it was or maybe they did maybe I'm being too charitable um

3:38:11
Unknown_00: I mean, that's a hard one. You can't know into the hearts of men what their issue is. I mean, with the guy. The lady seemed a little bit spiteful and cruel. I don't know. Let's say that maybe she's somebody who doesn't have her own kids. She's somebody with five kids.

Unknown_00: and gets a little bit angry at that. That's a possible inciting factor. But the guy that arrested you, he's just dumb. I can tell. That guy has, like, an ADIQ. Very... And he just, like, you know, someone from up there said, oh, we've got to investigate this harassment claim where this poor trans woman is being bullied on the internet into suicide. And he's like, oh, mate. I'll put a light stop to that.

3:39:16
Unknown_05: And it was so funny when I said it's disproportionate.

Unknown_06: He said it's not disproportionate. And then in the video where they're driving me away, I said, you know, can you tell them that they've stolen my stuff? And he was like, it's not stolen, it's seized. All right, okay. Whatever.

Unknown_05: I'm laughing now.

Unknown_00: Everyone's making fun of my British accent. My issue is that I lived in Australia. So whenever I try to talk British, I immediately want to shift into Australian because it sounds more natural to me.

3:39:53
Unknown_00: Okay. Well, it has been great talking to you. I do have to jump off. I feel like I've only gotten through half of what I know of your timeline. So if you do want to talk again, let me know. I'd be happy to finish the story.

Unknown_05: Yeah. okay okay i assume that you're not in jail can we not don't i mean literally knock on wood knock on wood hold up let me find some wood there we go don't don't but no it'd be great and um no thank you thank you everyone for your support and everything um i've really i've really appreciated it yeah anytime okay take care yep take it easy see you guys bye bye

3:40:38
Unknown_00: okay i'm going to exit that all right thank you guys for watching um i don't usually read super chats for these i guess i could i didn't notice that twinkletard sent in a hundred dollars which i really obviously really appreciate um you know what actually i can bash these out really really really really quickly so i'm just gonna flip this over into green mode i know that there is a big uh jimothy medicare stream coming up for everybody so i will try to keep this extremely quick pass through it so people don't feel ripped off or whatever and then um

Unknown_00: I'll call it a day. And I'll see you guys on Friday because I'm not streaming on Tuesday.

Unknown_00: Holy Halford 2 says, in the long awaited convo, hope you're having a good day, Josh. You are my nibba. I am having a great day. Thank you very much. Sneedo for one says, Snee. Thank you, Sneedo. I appreciate it. Anime Extremist for three says, thank you, Carolyn, for the work that you do. And thank you for sticking up for Josh, the Kiwi Farmers. I agree. Josh keeps up a good, healthy culture on the website. So big ups to both of you. I do try my best. Um, and it is really rewarding to see that there are real people out there who have like lives and families and want to associate with the forum. Um, it, it's not just weirdos. It's like actual people who benefit from the freedom of information. A hyper ninja for 31 says happy early birthday, Josh. Have the most excellent stream. Thank you. I appreciate it very much.

3:41:29
Unknown_00: Um, Anime Extremist for TwoSet. So far, the stream just started, mind you. I have two and a half questions for Carolyn. What's her favorite anime and why? And who's her favorite VTuber and why? I don't know about anime, but I'm pretty sure her favorite VTuber is some guy named Pippa.

3:42:01
Unknown_00: I don't remember what she was saying about Pippa, but I think I heard that come up. casting couch crab for 10 says the crabs shall stand with caroline i'm that's i'm sure she appreciates that she has many enemies um zbd for one says caroline what's your favorite type of cheese i will ask her that really quick actually what's your favorite

Unknown_00: Type of cheese. I guess I didn't mean to kick her off so quickly. I'll let you know. Twinkle Tar for $100. Hello, Miss Farrow. Keep fighting the good fight. And aside, do you have any lady friends that'd be interested in dating our boy, Jersh? To be honest, he needs a proper English woman to straighten his ass out. She does have a friend who I know is single that was dating Styx Hexenhammer. And she does not have a lot of good things to say about him. So...

3:42:33
Unknown_00: Thank you very much.

Unknown_00: She says brie, by the way. The cheese of the day is brie. Is that going to be my question for everybody? What's your favorite cheese? I'll just harass people with cheese questions. That's a much more wholesome parallel to the food question that Rakeda asked people.

3:43:08
Unknown_00: That's crazy to me. That's like hardcore anti-American to have true things be defamatory. This is the first woman I've interviewed who is not fucking crazy. It's...

Unknown_00: I think. Apologies if I've interviewed a normal woman before. Thank you. Supreme Me for five says, which is more realistic, a passing trans woman or a Holocaust actually happening? Can you please run a poll? I need answers. Given the context of the stream, I will not answer that question. Sneedo for one says, fuck 12, fuck the cops. I don't know what 12 means, but thank you. AnimeExtremist42 says, if you're a police officer, you're a piece of shit among the lowest form of scum. Pigs in a blanket aren't fit to wipe your shoes on. Absolute trash. Fuck cops and fuck their friends and family. Base, to be honest. AnimeExtremist41 says, all cops are guilty. Eat cops off a trebuchet into the sun.

3:44:13
Unknown_00: tank that up for one says UK and Aussie police are fucking servile public servitors lobotomize fuck them yeah I agree fuck cops I've been anti-cop before it was cool just so everybody knows anime extremist for one says unironically I'm glad Derek Chauvin's in prison he was never a victim look up his time as a police officer before George Floyd I've heard that he was overzealous and pulled his gun out numerous times I will say this I actually do believe that I don't know if he was murder like a murder charge but I do believe that Derek Chauvin held some guilt Because there was a time where even his other police officers were like, he's not responsive. Maybe we should check his pulse. He's like, no, I will kneel on him and I will not get up. And that to me is a little like, if that was me, I would be like, can you check my pulse, please?

Unknown_00: Eshanessa for 40 says, many happy returns for Tuesday. I will not be on Tuesday. I apologize. But thank you very much. I appreciate it. And Genresidercero for five says, great interview stream was very interesting, sucks that they screwed up access to the site during it. Use Tor and you can use Tor over Clearnet. I will fix that when I get a second. And then on Otisneed, Forsaken Wanderer says, I hate the Antichrist, based and true, me too. And Neighbor for five says, most esteemed and vulnerable QA demo. So far, this is not as funny as your previous interview, but much more informative.

3:45:14
Unknown_00: Well, that's all we can hope for these days. All right, thank you everybody for listening. I'll see you next time. Friday will be the next normal stream. Take it easy. I don't have an outro song. Bye-bye.