Turkey Tom (January 16, 2023) Responding to Keffals Archive 2023-01-16

0:00:08
Unknown_21: this is How to play guitar and make my mom watch me We always knew that that's just where I'd be right now We never questioned it, what's more like winning hell Now it's dead, this is hell You can't run, before you go to hell You go They know me, not just my name There's not another voice but same This is where I came from This is where I came from You had another thing coming, you were sweeping on us Same old voices in my ear saying enough

0:01:33
Unknown_21: We'll be right back. Without another place to stay

0:03:54
Unknown_21: I couldn't do Don't wanna hear about it Got with my guys Back to do all our cards And all the nearest scenes At every local bar Play a show at night Till they made me sick So here I am

Unknown_21: Just like I've always said If you're too cool for school, I ain't here to make no friends We left home with no getting back up plan And everyone we knew that we couldn't stand Said if you can't make it here, you won't make it there Don't wanna hear about it It's been most of our time sleeping in hardwood floors People said be rude, they didn't even know Bitch, all we play is show and night till it all makes sense

0:05:10
Unknown_21: Just like always.

Unknown_21: I'm right back at it again Just like I've always said If you're too cool for school

0:06:24
Unknown_07: Fight.

0:06:58
Unknown_21: Thank you. The truth that everybody else knows it Drink out to the side, it's time to get the fuck over Can't waste my time on evil people like you It's okay, I see you in me and I keep making you have to Is anybody else listening? Dying out of mind is what you'll always be I hope I come to my senses, I lay my life on the line So I explain

0:07:39
Unknown_21: I just can't believe It's really come to this Because without me You and I exist

0:08:50
Unknown_05: okay all right holy shit holy ball holy fuck guys we're fucking live what's up how's it going

Unknown_05: I don't know what all these red cup memes in chat are. I'm going to be honest. I'm not totally filled in on whatever this is, but I'm glad you guys are enjoying yourself down there, okay? I'm glad you guys in chat are enjoying your lives, enjoying yourselves. I see some people enjoying the music more than usual, to be honest, for weeks, for months even. However long I've been streaming, it's been two months, maybe a month. I don't know. When did I start streaming? Does anyone know?

Unknown_05: I don't know because I deleted all the VODs from YouTube, so I guess no one will ever know. But there used to be a lot more whining. This is emo.

0:09:29
Unknown_05: It's Hot Topic. It's not 2006 anymore, Tom. It's not 2007. It's not 2011, Tom. It's not 2013, Tom.

Unknown_05: Okay, but no.

Unknown_05: Now people are appreciating it. They're getting used to it. I'm cultivating the audience. And that's what people need to learn, okay? When someone doesn't like something that you do, if the audience complains, don't listen to them because they don't get it because the audience is stupid. And I sound a little funny here, okay? I'm going to sound a little ironic.

Unknown_05: But I actually – there is some truth to it, okay? There's some truth to it. And the reason why it's true is because people never like change in any scenario, right? People are never prepared for change. So you have to really handhold them and just shove them into that change until they realize that it's good.

0:10:03
Unknown_05: And that's I mean, that's what I do with content. Right. At first, when I started doing the stream clip videos, there were some complaining and now people like are fine with it. They like it.

Unknown_05: People are saying, why is your website down? My website is not down. However, Turkey Tom GG, the link to my discord is not really going to work properly right now. And the reason why is because we closed down the discord.

0:10:37
Unknown_05: You know, just getting in some drama recently. I just want to keep the Federinos out of there. I've been seeing some sketchy types coming in there saying some bad stuff, so we're closing it off. We're going to clean out the community, and then we'll be back. But the Discord's not closed forever or anything, so it'll be open within a week or so.

Unknown_05: But you guys read the stream title right.

Unknown_05: We're going to be reacting to Keppel's today. Keppel saw the video that I did with Birdie on the channel, on the TomDark channel. And she didn't like it that much. But she also had, like, almost nothing to say. A lot of it was just kind of her reacting, being like, What? What?

0:11:12
Unknown_05: But she wouldn't follow it up with much. And the few claims she did make were either wrong or flat out lies or just like total like she would just like retread stuff we said and try to act like we said something else. So we'll be going over all that. Andrew Ostrom says ADTR rips, Tom. People are wrong. So true. For all the people in chat who say, oh, she, you're, you're, you're, why don't you misgender her? I saw everyone on Kiwi Farms. They were like, why are you saying the right gender?

0:11:50
Unknown_05: Well, first of all, I respect pronouns, okay? I think it's important, too, because, like, there's no reason to go after someone for their intrinsic attributes, right? There's no reason to do that for something that they can't help. And, you know, like, what do you guys expect me to do? Like, you think when I go to fucking McDonald's, if I see a trans person there? Like, even if I did have some kind of, like, you know, prerogative against trans people, even if I didn't believe in transgenderism, you think I would go up to them and be like, ha! Yo, what's up, dude? You're a dude and not a girl, if I saw some trans girl working. No, I'd just be polite. I just like to be polite, guys, okay? There's nothing wrong with being polite. So that's the first reason. I like to be polite.

0:12:22
Unknown_05: I like to be polite. I like to respect pronouns. And the second reason is...

Unknown_05: If I was going out of my way to misgender her, okay, let's say I was of the opposite opinion and I went out of that. Like, it would be so fucking terrible for me. Like, do you know how long I would be on YouTube? It wouldn't be very long, to be honest with you. It wouldn't be very long. So guys, I'm a nice guy. The tomboys are nice guys. Are nice guys, I should say. You're gonna be nice guys. And I will make you nice, okay? I will force you to be nice. This chat... It's gonna be, uh...

0:12:53
Unknown_05: It's going to be 1994 in here, okay? Not 1984. 1994, bitch. It's 1994 in this chat. We're censoring everything.

Unknown_05: We're censoring... I censored a few slurs in particular. I censored a few slurs. I censored Keffel's dead name. And I'm just getting this out of the way to say, guys, I'm not okay with the dead naming. It's not cool. I was specific with the chat mods. I said, you guys need to censor the chat. You guys need to stop the transphobia. And the mods are going to be doing that, thankfully.

0:13:27
Unknown_05: So listen, you guys can do that all you want on KiwiFarms or whatever. But on my YouTube channel, okay, in chat, where we respect YouTube's rules, where we respect the wishes of Kefals to not be misgendered.

Unknown_05: we're not going to censor. Okay. We're not going to, or I should say we are going to censor and we're not going to misgender. Okay. Trans rights, guys, trans rights. That's what we're talking about. Trans rights.

0:13:59
Unknown_05: Anyhow.

Unknown_05: Yeah. So I have this really long, uh, fucking, how long is this reaction? It's an hour and 22 minutes long. It's a reaction to the video that me and Birdie did. And me and Birdie are going to be

Unknown_05: In call, we're going to be reacting to her reaction to us talking about her, which is just classic YouTube stuff at this point, right? All YouTube content is like someone reacting to someone reacting to something else. So yeah, that's what it's going to be. Basically.

0:14:31
Unknown_05: Confused cabal for 25 MX says your honor. My client is Keppel's. I am so screwed. Yeah. I'd imagine that that loss he went through would be bad.

Unknown_05: Femboy Fucker says, W. Tom for supporting trainee people.

Unknown_05: So that's a little touchy, Femboy Fucker. I'm going to let that one slide, but just because I think maybe you were just trying to be a little edgy, but we're not tolerating the transphobia, guys. We're not tolerating transphobia. We're not tolerating xenophobia, homophobia, okay? We're going to be above board, and there's a good reason for that because it's the right thing to do.

0:15:05
Unknown_05: Now, without further ado, without further ado, chat, I'm going to call my esteemed associate, Birdie, okay?

Unknown_05: Birdie, we are live.

Unknown_15: Oh no, that's not good.

Unknown_16: Birdie, we're live.

Unknown_05: I assume you got out all of your Kiwi Farms slurs before I unmuted. As Kepples knows, you are a huge Kiwi Farms user. You're a huge fan.

0:15:37
Unknown_16: Not only am I a Kiwi Farms user, not only do you make money off the website, I do too. We're both paid.

Unknown_05: We've become millionaires off of Kiwi Farms.

Unknown_16: You've had discourse around The Matrix, correct?

Unknown_05: I have heard the discourse around the Matrix, yeah.

Unknown_16: Consider us the agents.

Unknown_05: We're the agents of the Matrix? And Null? Null is the Matrix. Null is the Matrix?

Unknown_16: Yeah. We're the Smiths. We multiply. We infest.

Unknown_05: No, Null is Neo. Null is Neo.

Unknown_16: What, breaking his own... Yeah, okay, this is falling apart rapidly.

Unknown_05: Null is Neo. Imagine Null in a Neo outfit. Is this clickbait? No, it's not clickbait. We're actually going to be responding to countless... No, we are, we are. We are responding.

0:16:13
Unknown_05: I spent a whole afternoon preparing. Yes, we did some preparation. My audio's a little quiet.

Unknown_05: Is that better?

Unknown_05: Maybe better. I can't turn it up anymore. I think it's turned up all the way, so I don't... Maybe I can turn up the gain a little bit.

Unknown_05: Properties.

Unknown_05: I think it's all... I mean, there's not much I could probably do, really.

Unknown_16: Someone says null is the architect. That's a good way of putting it. Null is the architect. You're the Neo. You're breaking through. You're waking people up.

0:16:43
Unknown_05: waskelly says you asked for this when you started associating with kf either you go all the way or don't go with all of your content though i don't exactly know what that means but i mean when you when you and your videos reference kiwi farms as a resource i guess yeah you kind of accept that you'll become a supporter just by mentioning them without being mean but i'd say based on the stream i did the other day where i talked to the guy who runs the site it's evident i'm not supportive of everything they do

0:17:17
Unknown_05: Despite the fact that when we talked about on stream, we talked about like what Kiwi Farms does and what delineates it from other websites. And Keffels was like, no, Kiwi Farms does dox people and they allow it. As if we like contradicted that. But I guess I'm getting too ahead of myself. We probably shouldn't respond to the video before we watch it.

Unknown_16: British lad talking to Tom. Who was that blind teacher who did the poop review videos? That was Bob Rahan.

Unknown_05: Bob Rahan. Yeah, that's actually going to be... The video is going to be out real soon. I actually... Let me see if it's uploaded yet.

Unknown_16: For Tom's chat, by the way, Kefals' fans have affectionately called me Limey, which I think is very entertaining.

Unknown_05: Do you know anything about that?

Unknown_16: Do you not know what Limey is?

0:17:56
Unknown_16: No. It's an old slur for English people, but no one cares anymore because why on earth would an English person care?

Unknown_05: yeah i mean i guess that makes sense what the hell they're uh british phobic well they're brit phobic they're attacking my identity phobic they're brit phobic guys all right guys so um i have the reaction pulled up and the way we're gonna do this is when we need a receipt i'm gonna pull it up as well and uh careful is one of the things she said in her response to me was that uh She wanted to show a lot of things, and she only showed two things, one of which was wildly out of context, and it was a clip of Destiny, and the point she made was retarded as well. What was the other thing she showed?

0:18:32
Unknown_16: The other thing she showed is... She quoted her own testimony. No, there's an article in the Canadian Broadcasting, so basically the BBC for Canada. Yeah. And their headline is from a quote from Kefals, and she's like, boom, see, I'm not a liar. Yeah.

Unknown_04: Yeah. All right. Guys, I'm Brit-phobic and also American.

Unknown_16: Americanian? I can't even. Is that on purpose or not? Americanian. Dude, I'm Americanian. Can't believe the people are still anglophobic. Seriously.

Unknown_05: All right. We're going to put this. I'm going to put the chat just in the top right corner so that we can see the full video.

0:19:04
Unknown_05: You guys are going to go there. Okay. You're relegated to that little corner. I'm not transphobic, but I am Brit. I am Britphobic.

Unknown_16: Fuck you, Smile.

Unknown_05: I have the Kevles reaction up. We're going to be watching it.

Unknown_05: This is an hour and 22 minutes. I'm going to also share my screen with you.

Unknown_16: The last two minutes are basically just dead air and then the occasional comment, but yeah.

Unknown_05: There was honestly, there was a lot of dead air considering that our video was about an hour and her reaction is an hour and 20 minutes. There's not a commentary. I don't want to attribute too many motives to Kefals because I'll never really know, but I think she was kind of taken aback because we're not outright giving big claims.

0:19:45
Unknown_16: Most people do.

Unknown_00: We're not saying child grooming.

Unknown_05: We're not claiming she's like evil.

Unknown_16: We just have criticisms of her actions or anything she was ready for. There's a bit where we say don't be transphobic and it kind of throws her off.

Unknown_05: Yeah, but when we do talk about the fact that those allegations exist, but say we don't want to talk about them, she's like, no, I know what they're all about. It's like, oh, so you're upset that we didn't talk about the thing you don't want people to talk about? We couldn't win.

Unknown_16: Quite frankly, we couldn't win.

Unknown_05: No, but we're kind of front-loading this too much. We should probably get into the reaction itself. We should get into it.

Unknown_16: Prepare for a lot of insults.

Unknown_05: A lot of insults towards us. Because we're good guys. We're nice guys. The Tom boys and Tom girls are not insulted, thank God. We are not insulting, guys.

0:20:17
Unknown_05: Femboyfucker says, what channel is the poop reviewer video going to be on? Tom Dark.

Unknown_05: Illijazero says, Tom W., more viewers live in the Keemstar show. Is that real?

Unknown_16: Oh, no.

Unknown_05: Keem. I actually don't believe that. Hold on. Keemstar show.

Unknown_05: My poor Keem. So we have 950 live. Ooh.

Unknown_05: He is 670 live. What the hell? Well, in fairness, A3 Podcast friends got busted. He needs to stop talking about Ethan Klein. He needs to stop streaming with her because she's not good at streaming. Brantley's not good at streaming. Let's just be real, guys.

0:20:51
Unknown_16: Yeah, but Brantley brings diversity, Tom.

Unknown_05: Maybe the Keemstar show doesn't need diversity. Maybe they just need like eight Keemstars.

Unknown_05: Maybe they just need like eight people that look like him. If there was any show that would need diversity, it's one where Keemstar is allowed to be in charge. You know what I've noticed, guys? Before we get into the Keppel's thing, I'm stalling too much. I need to get to the actual thing. If I look up Keemstar 2010, I see an old picture of him. This is what he looked like, okay? This is his outfit.

0:21:23
Unknown_05: And if I look up Fred Durst, 2003...

Unknown_05: I feel like they're the same guy.

Unknown_00: I feel like this is the same person.

Unknown_05: Is it not? This looks like the same fucking dude.

Unknown_05: Like they have the same swag. You know what I mean?

Unknown_05: Especially like even in this video, in the N-word video. Yeah, in that famous clip. Yeah. Kai keeps it cheesy. Thank you for the one.

Unknown_05: Dr. Sleepyhead for the two says, I'm Britphobic. Real. Based. Based! Stop hating on my people. This needs to transition into a decent person. Very funny.

0:21:55
Unknown_05: Alright, guys. Let's go. I'm ready.

Unknown_05: An hour and 22 minutes. We're going to be here for a while. We're going to be here for the long haul.

Unknown_05: Bernie. Can I call you Birdie? Like the bird?

Unknown_05: literally whatever you want i think birdie is a better name birdie birdie birdie birdie um do you need a piss or shit before we get into this do you need a oh no i'm good hit your weed bong hit your meth pipe no no no i did my i aligned my chakra i'm ready all right i'm gonna ignore donos guys until the end so you're gonna get them right at the end but i will read them anyhow let's watch this reaction thank you for the two dollars greg

0:22:45
Unknown_27: the turkey tom um if you're a fan of destiny or you're active on twitter or you use or you use kiwi farm or you just pay attention why does everyone make fun of my voice i have a great a beautiful voice tom you can't pause in the first 10 seconds come on dude you made me pause you insulted my voice i have to defend myself against your allegation that my voice is bad by insinuating that i'm obnoxious

Unknown_15: I didn't say anything, I just, I mimicked along.

Unknown_05: Alright. Online drama, then you probably at least have heard the name Keffels. She's a pretty controversial figure in the community in general. Never heard this name. And a lot of people have a lot to say about her. So I had someone on my stream attempt to explain the lore behind the entire Keffels story, and at least attempt to summarize it. Here it is. Yeah, go ahead.

Unknown_16: I mean, I guess I'm starting off, do you know how Keffels first got popular? Um... What's a Keffels?

0:23:39
Unknown_16: Yes.

Unknown_27: Never heard of this.

Unknown_16: Okay.

Unknown_05: I mean, it wasn't a big following.

Unknown_16: It was mainly getting Destiny banned. That was the big thing. So this was in... People have kind of forgotten about that.

Unknown_05: Kepples is a live streamer on Twitch. She's been around on the internet. I don't know if any mods have changed the title of the stream, but if you want to change it to reacting to Turkey Tom or whatever, go for it. for way longer than her she's been famous though obviously right streaming like two and a half years i want to say now maybe a little longer what was she doing before she was streaming because she was around on she was like a camera or something right okay well i don't have a hundred percent proof of that and i wouldn't want to show it but i think it's we've got enough videos and clips where yeah there's probably a highlight you heard there was coming but it's also a different name i was never a camera that never So this is the first thing. She says, I was never a camera. And I think... Semantics. Okay, she's using semantics, but I also think that she's playing dumb here, being like, I was never a camera. When she knows what we're referring to, obviously, right? She knows exactly what we're referring to. And what we're referring to is that she was a for hire, I believe, like porn star back in the day under something called Canadian... Okay, Tom, Tom, Tom, Tom, Tom, Tom, Tom.

0:24:22
Unknown_16: It wasn't for hire. She did two different things. It was an OnlyFans where she'd be a dominatrix.

Unknown_05: That's what I mean, for hire.

Unknown_16: She was paid to do it. I suppose, but the other thing that's the major thing that I'm referencing here, that Kevles kind of knows I'm trying to reference, is that she used to be on T-Girl Canada, where she uploaded her own videos post-operation and Pwn. So, I don't know. Obviously, she knows what we're referring to, but yeah, technically not camera.

0:25:03
Unknown_05: So, camera, would that refer to a live streamer? I guess, right?

Unknown_15: Like cam girls, right?

Unknown_05: Isn't that what they do? She's like, I wasn't a cam girl, I was a...

Unknown_05: camera video or who knows it's semantics but yeah it's already trying to get us on like it's already trying to get us on like a technicality but it's a total like nothing like it's a total nothing

Unknown_16: I don't know why she brought it up.

Unknown_05: Someone said, was she stream sniping Tom? No, she watched it after the fact.

0:25:34
Unknown_16: Two weeks after. There's everything else and there's the Kevles stuff. Kevles is the political persona. The one that's advocating trans rights, wants to create a supposedly cleaner internet, and is standing up for the little guy. you know other things like the cat boy ranch the the sex stuff i mean at the end of the day i don't want to judge too much the cowboy ranch is totally um unverified right we don't know that oh yes and no my point more so being i wouldn't want to i wouldn't want to associate the two together oh boy let's go clara is her new name i think clara has two different categories but careful to the very small tight-knit community at first like it wasn't massive but it was pretty supportive i mean everyone kind of knew each other that kind of community

0:26:17
Unknown_05: Okay, so Keppel's, the first way I heard of Keppel's was because of Destiny. Yeah. And Keppel's went after Destiny. Why did they go after Destiny? Was it because of the, was it Leah Thomas? Is that the trans swimmer?

Unknown_16: Yeah, so the time is as unbiased as possible.

Unknown_05: So here she says no. Do you know if she elaborates on this clip? Because I don't think she does.

Unknown_16: She's just like, no. So for context, people watching, because I've seen this video three times now because I hate myself. She never really gives context. She just sort of goes, no, this is fan fiction. I think what she's referencing when she says I'm wrong, because what I'm trying to say is her first big thing was claiming to get Destiny banned. And she goes, no, that's wrong. So my best guess is that she wants to argue that before this, she was hate rated by Destiny because she tweeted about this a while ago.

0:26:54
Unknown_16: Destiny had to respond to it in his long three-and-a-half-hour video.

Unknown_05: Right, because her claim is that the reason she got involved with Destiny at all is because he hate-raided her, which I believe that's easy to disprove, yeah?

Unknown_16: Well, yes. So Keffels was lied to by a moderator of hers named, what's it, Sulio? And Sulio claims that because Destiny retweeted someone two hours after the stream, he had helped organize it. And the way Keffels stopped the hate-raid... was by employing a bot that banned anyone that followed Destiny.

0:27:30
Unknown_15: Now, that sounds pretty bad, but Destiny was the second biggest political streamer.

Unknown_16: That's like banning everyone that watched Vosh. That's like banning everyone that watched XQC, like the biggest streamers. It's not really proof. And I don't know, because Keffels doesn't elaborate, so I don't know if that's what she's referring to. If there's earlier lore, she has to give it, because... From my understanding, her first big thing was directly getting involved in Destiny's affairs.

Unknown_05: Right. And the thing, the reason why I think the problem is like, if we, if we bring this up now, she's gonna be like, I wasn't even talking about that, but I think it's important to probably talk about just because like, if she, if she does want us to talk about it, then.

0:28:14
Unknown_16: I think, I think when I was giving a short summary on stream about Keffel's story, I think starting on the banning Destiny is the first point in that timeline.

Unknown_11: If Keffel's has something to disprove that she better give it. Right.

Unknown_11: on Twitter. A moderator of Keffels, Sulio, a Twitch user who has urged other streamers to cut ties with me in the past, would eventually blame my community for this. How ironic, this is something we've, the amount of like stupid shit I never wanted to know in terms of stuff I've been reading about every night over the last few weeks. The funny thing is that the source of all of this conflict, the source of everything starting between me and Keffels started because Sulio was the one in chat

0:28:54
Unknown_11: who was the one who actually identified... You figured out why we were hate-rated earlier?

Unknown_27: What happened?

Unknown_11: It was Sulia was the first one that pointed it out.

Unknown_11: What the fuck are the chances?

Unknown_16: I mean, this seems to me like that's the only thing Kevils can be referring to, right?

Unknown_05: Right. It would seem that that's it. And basically in this, Destiny points out the fact that his tweet was two hours after she was live. And he didn't even tweet about it.

Unknown_16: He retweeted someone else who I think made like a snide joke. There's absolutely no reason to think there was any hate raid that came from Destiny.

0:29:30
Unknown_05: And I think even if she can say, okay, I was lied to, has she walked this back and recanted it? Because I believe to this day...

Unknown_16: I couldn't find anything. So just to give you an idea of how unlikely it is she'd apologize, Kiwi Farms, which is desperate to prove Keffel's wrong at every angle, I couldn't find a single post where Keffel's responded to this. My best guess is that either Keffel's is sticking to the story, or she's like, oh, I already know, I already know, but this is the first point chronologically.

Unknown_05: But it wouldn't stand her to point out that she was wrong anyway, because...

Unknown_16: no i i genuinely don't know when she says i'm wrong here she'll learn to say it's fan fiction but the problem is is that everyone agrees this destiny band was the first major point

0:30:09
Unknown_05: Right, and it was the first major point. She even disputes that, and we'll get into that when she says it in about a minute. We'll get into that, don't worry. At the time, Leo Thompson was the big topic for even boomers and people in the mainstream, because it's a transgender woman in swimming, from what I understand.

Unknown_16: And Destiny was asked on stream, what's your opinion? And I won't go into too much detail, but basically what Destiny said is, I don't think Leo should be allowed to compete. This is already turning into some crazy fan fiction.

Unknown_05: I wish she would elaborate here because she says this but doesn't really say why.

0:30:42
Unknown_16: This did happen. Even Destiny's long video where he's going into every detail. My story matches up with his.

Unknown_05: It's not even a controversial thing to say that the reason she picked a big fight with him was over the trans thing. It was.

Unknown_16: Later on when Tom and I claim that Destiny is pro-trans, which she is, she gets really upset. She's like, no, no, no. He disagreed with me on this argument. She even understands what I just said earlier is correct. I don't know why. She's like, this is crazy fan fiction.

Unknown_16: ...female-only sport, at least not now.

Unknown_05: Do you not want to go into detail because it's TOS, or is it just like that's all that matters? TOS, but also I don't fully remember now.

0:31:15
Unknown_16: I mean, this was almost a year ago, though. This is nine or ten months ago.

Unknown_05: Okay, so nine or ten months ago, and that's really when, to think about, that's when all this started. So let's call it a year, right? So a year ago... I want to say a year, but I mean, it was like at the beginning of March. Yeah. So a year ago, Destiny is on stream. He's a political streamer. He's asked about Leah Thomas, and...

Unknown_16: I always think it's important to mention the reason people got Serp Set K. I know that I'm a real woman because this video that's supposedly about me doesn't even pass the Bechdel test. It does pass the Bechdel test.

0:31:47
Unknown_05: For you guys who don't know, the Bechdel test- Oh, did you see if it does? yeah of course it does because this is this is the introduction the main story does have a point where there's two women talking so for those of you guys who don't know the bechdel test is basically a test and is there a is there a specific numeric thing assigned to it what i know is that it's basically a test to see if you're being misogynistic based on two women two women have to talk about something other than a man right and and that does happen within this yeah i assume

Unknown_16: We can reference it. I mean, the problem is that Keffels keeps fighting over Destiny and Flamenco and Null.

0:32:21
Unknown_05: I mean, the reason why we mentioned Destiny is because he's, like, a huge part of her story.

Unknown_16: Destiny helped, by accident, helped kick off Keffels' story. Also, this is dumb anyway because it's just a dumb joke, but yeah. I think it does pass the Bechdel test.

Unknown_05: It's a dumb joke, but it's also, like, it is something that I think she means sincerely.

Unknown_05: As if, like... I think when Keffels and Bob posting were talking about children, that definitely passed the Bechdel test.

Unknown_16: There you go. literally could not talk about me without it centering around like could not talk about me without it centering around destiny this is the thing you can't you can't talk about her without talking about destiny once again like he's such a huge part of the lore like without him she would not be where she is right now it's it's it's it's it's undoubted it's it's like it's impossible to say it's it's like

0:33:03
Unknown_05: It's impossible to reinforce that enough. I mean, you know, without Destiny, there would be no Vosh. Without Destiny, there would be no Hassan. Without Destiny, there would be no Xanderhal. Without Destiny, there would be no Keffels. It's a fact.

Unknown_05: There's just no way around it. He's such a huge part of the story.

Unknown_05: She's, you know, or I should say he's the reason why she, you know, started all of this. And she's going to deny that, but it'll become very obvious as we show receipts in a second here.

Unknown_16: Second here.

Unknown_16: her name echoing shit sorry no worries but when they before they even knew kevles was is because destiny is probably one of the bigger or one of the more open trans like more supportive trans streamers i think he's pretty he's pretty okay trans rights he's stood up for them he's questioned a lot of conservatives and a lot of critics of the movement right i don't think whoa whoa what wait what what what what what okay wait wait wait

0:33:54
Unknown_05: yeah i think it is echoing a little bit on your end um it's like maybe just back away from your mic a little if you have headphones on or something that might be it i'm not exactly sure hold on do you want to respond or Yeah, yeah, I just want to see if you're good. Am I not echoing? I can still hear me a little. No, I think it's gone now. I think it's gone now.

Unknown_16: Talk a little bit and see what chat says.

Unknown_05: Yeah.

Unknown_27: Um...

Unknown_27: Okay, wait a second.

Unknown_16: This is going to go nowhere. She's trying to break up her Google. Basically, the point she contests here is that Destiny is not a trans ally and he doesn't stand up for trans rights.

Unknown_05: Right. And the evidence she uses for that is that he made a 41% joke. He didn't even make a 41% joke.

0:34:44
Unknown_16: He said it's hard to resist the temptation to make one about catfalls.

Unknown_05: right and uh do you have that clip on hand so we can see that what the oh the no keffels is gonna bring up later in the video which is why i haven't got it on hand what i did send was just one example of many of destiny debating conservatives and pushing them into okay here's a pro trans stance

Unknown_11: Let's say that we are 20 years into the future, we have brain transplant surgery. Let's say that I take your Rob's brain and I put it into a cis woman's body. Let's say that you wake up and you're like, this feels really wrong. I feel like a man and now I'm in a woman's body. Would you say that that's a disorder, that you have a disorder there?

0:35:18
Unknown_08: I would say I have a disorder, an illness, or something that's wrong physiologically or mentally with my body, yes.

Unknown_11: And then what is the disorder?

Unknown_08: The disorder is that my brain is in the wrong body.

Unknown_08: Okay, so what is a solution for that?

Unknown_08: Put my brain in a body that more aligns with what my brain is.

Unknown_11: Okay, you just stated exactly... Okay, I love you. You are the most trans-positive conservative I've ever argued with. So that is exactly... This is just one... That's just one example.

0:35:51
Unknown_05: This is just one example, obviously, yeah. But it is, like, such a clear instance.

Unknown_05: There is a little echo.

Unknown_16: Kevles, Kevles, we'll show the clip later. But basically, her only point... Maybe it's just a little bit of echo.

Unknown_05: Oh, fuck me.

Unknown_16: Give me a second.

Unknown_05: Okay, I apologize.

Unknown_16: I'm actually going to kill myself.

Unknown_05: Okay, don't do that. But yeah, basically, I mean, there's just a long history of Destiny defending trans people. You literally look up Destiny trans debate on YouTube. I mean, you can see video after video. I mean, Destiny gets dogpiled and heated. One of the United debate panel on trans sports. Destiny debates a far-right student on trans issues and diversity. Destiny debates trans issues at the University of Tennessee. Gender and trans debate leaves Destiny speechless. Destiny actually convinces her to concede a trans debate. He's always been pro-trans in every way. There's no way you can argue that he's not. And Keppel's only evidence is to say, well, he he said that it's tempting to make this one joke. And I would argue that he wanted to make that joke, not because he's transphobic. He wants to make that joke because she was throwing everything she possibly could at him. And he was just like, OK, well, she's trying to destroy my livelihood. Like, why wouldn't I make this kind of joke? You know what I mean? But he never actually makes it, which is an important distinction as well.

0:36:58
Unknown_16: Keffels shows the clip, but Destiny gets a donation saying it'll be great in 30 years' time when Keffels kills herself. And keep in mind, this is right after Destiny's lost his platform on Twitch and Keffels is gloating. And he goes, yeah, the temptation to make a 41% joke is, you know, it's hard.

Unknown_05: I have to stay above the line. But it's so understandable. He's tempted to make a joke about someone who is trying to destroy his life and is even bragging about it. So it's like... On one hand, it's like you can say, you know, optically what he did is not great. But if you just look at his history, right, it's like he would have to be the most genius master manipulator ever to debate for like four years in favor of like trans people for this, you know, like like enabled to like lead up to this one moment where he can go after capitals. Right. Because she'll claim that he's transphobic. But there's, like, years of history of him defending trans people, being pro-trans. So there's really no, like, there's no merit to this argument other than, like, oh, well, there's just one clip.

0:37:31
Unknown_16: Is the temptation to make one transphobic insult at someone that's trying to ruin your livelihood going to invalidate years of campaigning on the side of trans people? I wouldn't think so.

Unknown_05: Right. But maybe I'm wrong. And, I mean, Kepler's is extremely edgy as well, and we have a lot of evidence of that. That's super obvious, which we'll bring up in a sec when she shows the clip just to contrast it. But, yeah.

0:38:15
Unknown_29: Wait, what? I was like looking for... I'm gonna speed her up a little bit.

Unknown_04: She's so fucking slow.

Unknown_27: I was trying to find that clip where Destiny was on stream and someone donated to him and said about me, it's pretty comforting that in 30 years this person is going to kill themselves.

0:38:46
Unknown_27: And he said, Jesus Christ, it's tempting to make 41% jokes, but I want to stay above board. I don't even know why I'm trying to stay above board. How is that supportive? You hate me. You can just call me a piece of shit. You can say literally anything other than saying it's tempting to make incredibly tasteless transphobic jokes.

Unknown_05: Once again, as we'll bring up in a sec, Kevles is in no position to talk about tasteless jokes. But at the same time, when you're someone like Destiny, who literally got hundreds of thousands of dollars in income ripped away from him, you're going to be at a point where you're going to be a little more edgy than usual. Maybe you're going to be willing to let certain things slide more than others. Yeah, he fucking hates you. Why would he shy away from something like that? The fact that he even showed as much restraint as he did is, I would say, surprising to me.

0:39:23
Unknown_16: If you want to skip ahead to seven minutes in the video, she shows the clip.

Unknown_05: um i just don't want to miss anything important um but it's not fun just saying yeah could really favorably argue that he's not that he is a transphobe he's not a transfer he's somewhat anti-leftist that's fair i guess yeah i mean the truth is you probably know more about destiny specifically than i do so i'm so i'm a big destiny fan yeah yeah you probably know that or maybe you do know that but i'm just a fan big year big end dot g year and um yeah this is already right and sort of the the thing that destiny does every few years he sort of purges his audience of um people he thinks are

0:40:00
Unknown_06: only there to see him give, like, takes for one side, so he used to be sort of a gamer bro, and then he had to purge his audience because he felt that they were full of, um, he felt that they were full of, like, transphobes and, like, right-wingers who were not thinking critically, and his way to purge that was to have a debate with JonTron, which is, like, the most, the first infamous thing Destiny did. It's, like, his third most popular video on YouTube, isn't it? To this day, I think, yeah. And, um, at the time that it happened, he got a lot of shit for that. But looking back, he was honestly kind of right with what he was saying.

Unknown_27: Um, something that I wasn't even ready for at the time to acknowledge.

Unknown_06: Um, that JonTron was, I don't know if he was a Nazi, but he was spouting a lot of f- Okay, you know what?

Unknown_27: Hold on a second. Because I don't want to just say things. I want to show things. I've said way too many fucking things, but it's time to actually show something.

Unknown_16: I don't know about you, but I'm getting a little turned on by this camera angle. Yeah? Okay, buddy.

0:40:44
Unknown_05: Something about it.

Unknown_27: So tell me.

Unknown_05: It's just you. And here's the clip.

Unknown_27: So tell me.

Unknown_05: Here's the clip she's going to show of Destiny. Yeah.

Unknown_27: After referencing Keppel's genitals to make multiple remarks fantasizing about how wealthy she must have been, Destiny laughs at a chatter that says it's comforting to think this person will kill themselves in 30 years. Destiny says it's tempting to embrace 41 jokes.

Unknown_09: It's tempting to embrace the 41 jokes, but I'm trying to stay... I don't even know why at this point I'm trying to stay above board. You're the reason...

0:41:15
Unknown_05: And, yeah, I mean, that doesn't look amazing, but, Birdie, do you have the flamenco clip just to reference?

Unknown_16: The Stardust clip, do you mean?

Unknown_05: Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's absolutely no, yeah, I guess the Stardust clip. Like, she has no room to talk on this. And this is something that, like, Hasan Piker will do as well. He'll be like, why would you make a joke about that? Why would you make a joke about the N-word? And then he'll, like, joke about, like, 9-11 and say that, like, America deserved it. And I know there's, like, some greater point that he says should be made there. And maybe she'll say that, oh, well, you know, it was justified because this person was doing this, this person was doing this. But it's like, at the end of the day, like, you're just making insensitive jokes. And in this case, like, you made light of, like, suicide. And I'm not someone to get mad at someone else for saying, like, KYS, but it's just blatantly hypocritical.

0:41:54
Unknown_05: And here we have a clip.

Unknown_16: The Stardust clip is just an example of her being edgy and just as rude. Right.

Unknown_25: interact with who you call friends because you're a fucking snake but i need i need screenshots of him actually posting all right i'll get all of those fucking he didn't post the fucking docs he engaged in group harassment if he encouraged if he encouraged other people by engaging in group do you know what group harassment is you have more than two fucking brain cells jesus stardust i know i understand what group harassment is i've had people on cozy direct their entire followings to come hate raid me. So I understand what that is. But I, I still need to see like, like more than somebody just participating and being, you know, antagonistic towards somebody. Right. Like in a fucking thread in the same thread on a site made for group harassment that multiple people have killed themselves over.

0:42:28
Unknown_27: Are you fucking how stupid are you to the suicide?

Unknown_16: How do you made a spreadsheet?

Unknown_25: of of content creators who are all smaller than you that you wanted to hear birdie what is it it must be in this clip yeah sorry where she says uh where she makes an edgy joke yeah oh yeah i mean that was just the bit where she gets loud if you wanted the edgy bit i don't have that completely on hand but it's uh it's all segmented up yeah do you mind sending me that one because that's the one i wanted to reference yeah give me a sec okay

0:43:20
Unknown_05: Yeah, that would be the clip I wanted to reference.

0:43:56
Unknown_24: keffels literally told me to go kill myself so like i don't know fam like what do you want to do let's see if we might go talking about it is there an actual clip of it or okay here we go i was i am such a smaller content creator than you and you think that it's okay for you to slander me as a white nationalist as a brown woman by the way wait this isn't the clip give me a second i can't find it on my head these time stamps are awful

Unknown_05: No worries. I found Flanko referencing it. I think it's obvious that Kevles makes a lot of edgy jokes. I just wish we had that one on hand.

Unknown_16: Sorry, yeah, I thought you wanted one of us being outraged.

Unknown_05: Well, it's because she made an edgy joke, so I was trying to show the hypocrisy, but now we look retarded, Birdie. Now we look retarded.

Unknown_05: Give me a sec. No worries. I'll re-chat for a second while we get this reference for my super prepared stream. Richter in chat, what's up, buddy?

Unknown_05: I see a Cheeto in chat. How's it going, dude?

0:44:58
Unknown_05: Kayaks, yo, what's up? Flanko sounds like a girl. Yeah, true. I'm not updating Chrome. Fuck you.

Unknown_05: Chrome can suck my dick.

Unknown_16: Can we move on, and then I'll find it later, because I need a little more time.

Unknown_05: Yeah, that's fine. Yeah, we can move on. But we will have to bring this back, because I think it's important. I've got my whole list of timestamps and clips here, so I'm going to sort of dig through. I mean, just for reference, Keppel's is very edgy. I know she talked to Nick DiOrio, and she was complaining, like, why does no one like me? I'm edgy, just like the rest of them. And it's kind of funny to hear something like that, when you went to war with the entire internet. But I'll keep playing this.

0:45:31
Unknown_27: I do not understand how people can come to the conclusions that they come to when he says shit like this.

Unknown_05: right talking points right yeah i mean i mean john's john's major mistake was that he did like what your you know what your right-wing grandpa would do and once again she says she doesn't know how we can come to the conclusion but like definitely like the four years of destiny like debating transphobes is a decent amount of evidence for for that conclusion went off headlines alone right i think destiny was a bit more equipped with well i ran into that and here's why i don't trust that as much and so no go ahead well i mean john just can't defend against that when john's got a surface level understanding i don't mean in a mean way i just mean in a genuine way when you're in a debate you just can't have the surface level understanding of these headlines

0:46:05
Unknown_06: Right. And beyond that, I think the kind of thing that Destiny is known for is now he attacks leftists because once he started attacking, once he started to attack right wingers, he sort of accumulated this left wing audience. And then he got a bunch of people on that side who weren't thinking critically and like were like retards and they were like communists and they weren't consistent with their beliefs and stuff like that. And so then he had a purged audience of that. And so that's why he's sort of an enemy of both the right and the left in a way, even though he's, you know, what's up?

Unknown_05: he's just muted he's he's pretty left-wing but you know he's more liberal than a social yeah i don't know when your dad right now oh yeah i mean he's the omniliberal twitter and everything exactly you know i don't think it's i think it's unfavorable he doesn't really respond to much yeah it's um shall we go on to banning destiny as the major next point claiming that someone who was originally a biological man and had transitioned into a biological female he was like they shouldn't be in the olympics and this caught capital's attention somehow isn't

0:46:48
Unknown_06: I reported nothing. I don't control Twitch.

Unknown_16: I had absolutely nothing to do with Destiny getting banned. That was entirely Twitch.

Unknown_05: So this is one of the things she says a lot, and she says it to this day. She's like, I had nothing to do with Destiny getting banned. And maybe that is true. I don't know that it's true, but the problem is that she constantly at the time was claiming responsibility for it, and she was lying about it. At least in her own words, she lied about it. And now she's playing the victim, like, oh, well, I didn't get him banned. It was only Twitch. But we literally have like screenshot after screenshot of her talking about the fact that she got him banned. So, yeah, if I can get into that, there is the original tweet where she's like, I got you banned, Steven.

0:47:24
Unknown_16: But in that tweet, she basically at the end says, just for Destiny followers, I didn't actually get him banned. And then in future tweets are all like, I got him banned. I got him banned, guys. So it's so inconsistent.

Unknown_05: Right. Yeah. Actually, I can pull that up right now.

Unknown_05: Destiny mains. You got it right here. There we go.

0:47:58
Unknown_05: All right. So there's I mean, here's here's what she said at the time he got banned.

Unknown_05: And she says, hey, Stephen, I just took away your she says, hey, Stephen, I just took away your primary source of income. Please leave me alone to stop bullying trans people for content. His followers are going to get mad. So I'm going to clarify now that I didn't report anything. And he did this to himself.

Unknown_05: And it's like, OK, sure. You clarify in the second tweet that like, let's say it wasn't you. But like you say, I just took away your primary source of income. Stop bullying trans people for content. Like you're explicitly trying to take credit for it. You can't play the victim now and be like, I had nothing to do with it. It's like if you lie and someone believes your lie, especially given your history of like deplatforming people, like how are you supposed to take an issue with us drawing that conclusion, you know?

0:48:30
Unknown_05: And the thing is, like, I don't even know if I believe what she's saying now in retrospect that she didn't get in band because she's constantly lying and switching things up. So I really just don't know.

Unknown_05: Yeah, I just don't know.

Unknown_05: OK. So, yeah, I mean, that kind of clears that up. We're going to keep watching, but there is other stuff to go over from this, obviously, even from this one little talking point. Yeah. Do you mean she clipped it and then reported it as a news person? No, no, no.

0:49:05
Unknown_16: This was clipped by someone else. She reported it with Destiny Channel and said, this is transphobia.

Unknown_05: I don't know why. And here's just another one. Destiny has made 41% jokes towards me, accused me of being a rapist, accused me of being a pedophile, and is now actively mocking me for being a childhood grooming victim. I do not regret at all my role in getting him deplatformed from Twitch. And this presumably is not a joke. This presumably is a sincere statement. If she wants to say this one's a joke or it's trolling, okay. But this one is like a sincere statement.

0:49:41
Unknown_05: He says he wants to appeal his ban decision. I don't think he understands. I am friends with people on Twitch staff, and they are watching him as he does these things. He took the opportunity of getting banned to go mask off, but he is not going to be able to put it back on. I have a sneaking suspicion she might use the trolling excuse again because she claims that it was trolling that made her alive. It's kind of like a lose-lose for her either way because on one hand she says, okay, well, if she's being sincere, then she did get him banned, and I don't like that. And if she's not being sincere and she didn't get him banned, at the end of the day, she still lied publicly and then is mad that we believe it. There's no joke to be made here. You just say you got his job taken away. There's no punchline or anything. You just lied, and you're mad that people believe it. I really don't understand. No, Tom, this is trolling.

0:50:17
Unknown_16: This is epic trolling.

Unknown_05: And this is the thing she says even in the video in her reaction to our stream. She's like, oh, well, you were just trolling. You know, we do a little trolling. She'll later on say, I hate when edgy people don't understand when I'm being edgy.

Unknown_16: If edginess is just lying and taking credit for shit that you didn't do, I don't know what edgy means anymore. I guess I missed the redefinition.

0:50:50
Unknown_05: I missed that boat. I didn't do literally anything. There was definitely support of her report. Right.

Unknown_16: But the reason this is important is that Kevles immediately tweeted, hey, Stephen, I just took away your primary source of income. Stop attacking me and trans people. So, you know, basically what Kevles did was from the beginning, it was a clever narrative of I took down a transphobe who wasn't attacking Lea Thompson, was attacking the trans community. And I just defended it. I mean,

Unknown_27: no um because i tweet like immediately after that by the way i didn't actually do that i'm just trying to piss you all off and it's really obvious it's just i've learned over time that people are just incredibly bad faith and they want to make up the narratives that they think are good you know they want the narratives that will outrage people in their own community so they're absolutely not above lying they lie all the time this entire thing i don't even know because if they're being sincere right now they're fucking stupid and if they're not being sincere then they're doing what they can in order to intentionally incite outrage by their own audience which i think again like

0:51:37
Unknown_05: There's no reason for me to incite outrage against her from my audience because she's already hated by my audience before I say anything. Immediately, as soon as I mentioned Kevles, everyone was like, fuck that bitch. We hate her because she's obsessed with deplatforming people. That's why people hate you. And you also say like, oh, well, you're just lying. And it's like, well, no, you publicly told a lie. At least that's what you claim. You publicly told a lie, and we now recite the lie that you told. And the lie, like once again, like you say, okay, well, it's just so obvious that it wasn't me. You then go on, like it wasn't even like one statement. You go on to say that you have friends with Twitch. I am friends with people on Twitch staff. They're watching him as he does these things. He took the opportunity of getting banned to go mask off. Like you're literally saying you know people on the inside to get Destiny banned.

0:52:16
Unknown_05: Like, why would we not at least, like, acknowledge that, you know what I mean?

Unknown_05: Like, if you want to take credit for something, you can't retroactively be like, well, where are you getting me credit for it, you know?

Unknown_05: So yeah, is there anything else you want to add on this point, Birdie, or should we?

Unknown_16: No, except that her trying to claim that we're being disingenuous is very unfair. When I compare us to a lot of other people talking about Keffels, we are pretty nice, and we even say we're going to avoid some topics because it makes her look too bad. And she knows that when she watches this video and we bring up topics. She notices that, and she still goes ahead with this line that we're just too stupid or we're too disingenuous.

0:52:56
Unknown_05: I mean, if we wanted to really go after her, we'd bring up the... I would have gone more into Catboy Ranch and DIY Hormones, which when I reference by name once, she goes, oh, I know exactly what they are.

Unknown_16: They're transphobes. Oh, I know exactly their motives.

Unknown_05: But we didn't even talk about it in the video. We literally didn't go into it with the explicit purpose of avoiding that. It was unsubstantiated at the time. We just didn't know everything about it, right?

0:53:30
Unknown_16: It was a stream highlight where I was giving a short, short, short retelling of the story. I'm not going to go into deep lore about Keffel's and her friends' actions.

Unknown_05: Right. All right, we're going to keep watching.

Unknown_16: ...is probably what's happening.

Unknown_16: It's important because Kefl's like to say, well, I never attack someone. I was attacked first. I call that attack first, if I'm quite honest. Was Destiny critical? Because remember this, if you are making the argument that trans women cannot compete with other women in the Olympics, which by the way, that's not even what this thing was about.

Unknown_27: But if you're making that argument, you are making a pro-segregation argument. You are saying that trans women should be segregated. That's what you are saying. There is no way around that. You are pro-segregation of trans people.

0:54:07
Unknown_05: This is such a non-argument.

Unknown_05: If you want to use the word segregation because it calls back to black people in the 1960s, then obviously that's going to sound good on paper, but what we're actually talking about – and I actually have a clip here to reference about –

Unknown_05: I have a clip here to reference from Destiny talking about it. I'm on it. Don't worry, baby. Okay, there we go. Awesome. Yeah, so Destiny has talked about this, and the argument is not that trans people should be segregated in all parts of society. It's not anything even close to that. The argument in actuality is just that there's physiological differences between men and women. The trans athlete is going to do a lot. If you transition when you're like 25 years old after puberty, then you can't be competing with people of the same societal gender, right? If you want to say trans people are real people, which I believe they are. If you want to say a trans woman is a real woman, which I think is totally fine, then if you want to say that that person should be able to compete against someone who's a cis woman, then you're being delusional. That's never going to be a fair competition. And we have a clip, even from the beginning of this stream, which is so obvious in explaining that, And I don't even know why that argument was made here. I assume just to preach to her audience. You're advocating for segregation of trans people.

0:55:19
Unknown_11: The trans athletes is going to do a lot to like foster a lot of really bad will against like trans people in general. I think it's a really good turf argument for, well, look, these people just want to destroy women's spaces.

Unknown_10: Everybody else in the world can look and see that there is clearly a difference between physiologically men and women.

Unknown_11: You guys should know this on the left because we talk about rape culture and it's one of the big concerns that women has. Go research the biology, then talk about the biology afterwards. Hold on, no, no, no, wait. Why don't, yeah, please explain this to me so I can tell you how f***ing stupid you are. Go ahead. Who gives a f*** if women can't compete at the top level?

0:55:53
Unknown_05: It eliminates. So there you can see, you can see kind of Destiny's arguing around it. It's not about segregating trans people. It's not about excluding them. It's nothing like that. And it's kind of frustrating to have to keep going back to Destiny clips to defend him and be his fucking caretaker or whatever in the stream. But you're just misrepresenting everything and really lying about what the actual argument is. That's such a cop-out to say it's segregating trans people. No, it's not.

Unknown_16: Devils is claiming a left-wing trans ally streamer is actually secretly a right-wing anti-trans streamer. We have to use these Destiny clips. And she cannot like that, and that's fine. But in the day, if she wants to criticize Destiny and his motives, we have to defend Destiny's motives. Simple as. Right.

0:56:27
Unknown_06: Or was he at least critical of her before that point? I don't think he knew her. Okay, really? Interesting. Again, Kefals wasn't really that big. Now, when you say big, you mean big on Twitter, because to my understanding, even to this day, she doesn't have a following on Twitch, really, right?

Unknown_16: Oh, no, she doesn't. I mean, we're doing comparatively, right? If we're doing a comparatively with the top streamers, even now, I don't think she's as big. But I mean, we all read that statistic. What is it? AstroTurfing your own fame because you know how to do marketing.

Unknown_06: That's crazy.

0:57:19
Unknown_05: It's really weird how you have to go into... Oh, fuck. Turkey Tom. Hold on, Tom. What time stamp was I at? Fucking, like, 12 minutes?

Unknown_27: Okay, well, this person has this many followers, therefore they're... What?

Unknown_05: Again, I don't think this is the first.

Unknown_27: AstroTurfing your own fame because you know how to do marketing. That's crazy.

Unknown_05: So the reason we say that is because like when she says marketing, it's not promoting like content. It's promoting lies about other people and like trying to get them banned in order to make yourself famous, which she did successfully, right? But that's why I use that terminology is because like the reason I'm using it is because it's not a legitimate way to gain fame in my eyes at least. It's like a very hack way.

0:57:54
Unknown_16: Again, she's claiming this is all crazy fan fiction. No, no, no. The beginning of her career, as far as I and many other viewers are concerned, is that she took credit for getting a bunch of people banned.

Unknown_05: That is her origin. She can't deny that. Right. But, I mean, she's trying to deny it with this video, saying, like, you can't even talk about me without talking about Destiny. It's like, well, Destiny isn't part of your whole story.

Unknown_16: Am I going to bring up two years of her playing Fallout New Vegas and saying she doesn't like new trans legislation? That was not her big claim to fame. It got her a bunch of viewers and it did well for her channel, but this is what boosted her and this is what got her in the public conscious.

0:58:27
Unknown_05: Well, did it get her a bunch of viewers? Because then in this next clip, she becomes insecure about the fact that nobody fucking watches her stupid shit.

Unknown_05: I mean, the Twitch has never been mega popular.

Unknown_16: It's really weird how you have to go into these analysis of, okay, well, this person has this many followers, therefore their opinion is more valid or something.

Unknown_27: It's, like, it takes a lot to even average 500 on Twitch. The vast majority of people who stream will never do that.

Unknown_05: And I just need to pause this and acknowledge this, like, we didn't say anything about her opinion being more or less valid because of her follower count. It's just, when you're telling a fucking rise and fall story of someone... Or telling telling a story about how popular someone is. You have to talk about how popular someone is. Right. We're talking about like with any video I would do about anyone. I would talk about her sub count. Right. And now she's on that point. And now she's like coping about it.

0:59:05
Unknown_16: Our point in this bit that she's pausing on is that the Twitch was not as big as the Twitter, and the Twitter did not help boost up the Twitch. And she's misconstruing this argument as us saying her lower numbers compared to other people means she has less of a voice, which is not at all what we're saying. This is one of many examples where she... I don't know if it's purposeful if she's just not listening because she's like half watching of chat, but she just completely misunderstands what we're saying.

0:59:42
Unknown_05: And I think it's quite convenient. I mean, she says something that we didn't even say. It's not even a misunderstanding. It's like you made a point that we didn't make.

Unknown_05: And it's just like, I don't even know how I'm supposed to combat this because it's totally not even something I said. But if you want me to play into it, I mean, you know, your reaction to my video about you had 600 live viewers and I have 1,200 live right now. So... Get owned, bitch. Make better content, okay? Make better streams. You're boring. Too much dead air. Get better at making videos and streams. El Riz. El Riz, guys.

Unknown_05: Can I get El Kevels in chat? El Kevels in chat? El low view count in chat, guys? Owned? Fucking owned, okay? I'm famous. You're not? In the words of Flamenco, I'm an internet celebrity, okay? Guys?

1:00:13
Unknown_05: All right. We should probably resume this. I'm getting into stupid shit talk. Here we go.

Unknown_27: It's just such, it's such weird like dick measuring stuff. It has nothing to do with the argument that they're even trying to make. But it's all just like, it's all based on, is his research like literally just, okay, I'm gonna- Once again, the dick measuring was in this stream.

1:00:46
Unknown_05: The dick measuring was not in what you reacted to, okay?

Unknown_27: bring this guy on and I'm just going to take everything that he says at face value. Because if that's the case, his entire channel is suspect because then everything is based on incredibly shoddy research.

Unknown_16: Yes, one stream highlight represents the entire of the main edited channel full of research. Yes, careful.

Unknown_05: I am the only one that researches Tom's videos.

Unknown_16: I am the sole archive.

Unknown_05: The thing is, we're 13 minutes in, and, like, I haven't found a single point that's been, like, super, like, wrong from what we said. She says it's wrong. She says it's fan fiction. But, like, I can't think of a single thing she's said so far that's been like, whoa, like, we're totally wrong on that. Like, she got upset now because we said that she doesn't get watched by anyone, doesn't have viewers. And then she's like, it's so hard to even get 500 people live. And it's like, yeah, that's probably true to an extent, but, like—

1:01:22
Unknown_05: that's not what i said you know until we get to the kiwi farm shit she's going to continuously just insult us and go that's wrong that's wrong when a we're right and b she gives no example why we're wrong right here we go the first contact because after that it was the ratioing it was the constant bravado i mean i don't think i don't think it was immediately originally planned i think she sort of fell into it

Unknown_06: Right. Okay, so you think that she fell into that and then she sort of saw an opportunity to get big from that? Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Unknown_16: I don't think Keffels is this master manipulator that people want to say. I think she's clever with her words, but she kind of fell into this position. And immediately afterwards, it was ratioing. I can't remember the full timeline, but you know Lauren Southern, right? Of course, yes. So the moment this Destiny thing happened and everyone's following her liking, I mean, it was even at the time, just from this one Destiny thing, there were these randoms on Twitter going, like, Keffels is the new icon of the trans community, which is daft, because never has been, never will be.

1:01:59
Unknown_06: So Keplos is this trans girl who, she destroyed Steven, Destiny. Yeah. She took away his primary source of income, which is, I mean, I remember him talking about it. That's like hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, like 300K. Yeah, and Twitch being Twitch didn't pay him out that month when he got banned or anything. Right. So she directly caused a lot of opportunity loss, right, for him? I did. Even indirectly she caused.

Unknown_05: I mean, like, I literally did nothing.

Unknown_27: It's...

1:02:31
Unknown_05: All I need to show for this is, like, this tweet. Like, she can say she did nothing now, but maybe she did do nothing for all I know, but it's like she claimed, she literally says she took away his primary source of income and she brags about it. He makes up some number like 300k and says that we're claiming Destiny lost 300k a year because of what she did.

Unknown_16: I don't think we gave out a number. We kind of theorized.

Unknown_05: I think the reason I gave that is because there was this time when he was talking about getting banned on Twitch and he was upset because it was like $250,000 to $300,000 he lost in income for the year. He was upset about it and that's why I said that. But she makes it out like, well, if he did lose that money, he would have taken me to court.

1:03:04
Unknown_16: It's like, A, he did try to sue you and then you just stopped talking about him so he stopped talking about you. And B, it doesn't even matter. The major point here is that you look like a complete psychopath banning this guy.

Unknown_27: It's impossible to prove that.

Unknown_27: And they know that. They absolutely know it. Steven knows it. I know it. If there is a way to prove that I caused him to lose $300,000 a year and I got... I mean, you can say this was a joke, but I'd imagine if he did take you to court, this probably wouldn't look good to say, I don't think he understands.

Unknown_05: I have friends with people on Twitch staff and they're watching him as he does these things. And you say, hey, Steven, I just took away your primary source of income. Stop bullying trans people for content. I'd imagine that wouldn't look great in court. That would probably be admissible. No, that's trolling.

1:03:43
Unknown_16: That's trolling. It's trolling.

Unknown_05: Yeah, it's trolling.

Unknown_27: got him banned from Twitch. Like, you know that when he... He would have been talking about this. He would have been like, I'm going to sue Keffels for making me lose $300,000. But he never did because that's not true.

Unknown_05: I mean, the thing is, she also says it's so outlandish that he would ever, like, think of suing her. But maybe she hasn't acknowledged it to her audience, but Destiny did actually... Um, as far as I know, send her a cease and desist. And when she ceased and desisted talking about him and spreading lies about him, um, he decided to just drop it because he figured it wasn't worth the time. But I mean, he was like actively, like he had a, he has a lawyer on retainer. He was looking into suing her. So the fact that she's acting like this would be so outlandish, it's like, well, he actually was planning on doing that for defamation. Um, so yeah. Yeah.

1:04:21
Unknown_27: there's no way for you to verify that and if it got into a legal battle twitch would have to get involved and they would be like no that's we do not ban people in this manner we ban them because they break the terms of service and this is something that i want to talk about because she says oh we ban them because they break the terms of service and she's acting as if twitch is like the most consistent like website ever as if they only ban people justifiably

1:04:58
Unknown_05: They only ban people who break terms of service, and they ban them, like, you know, sort of evenly. I sent the clip you want, by the way. Oh, you did? Okay, yeah, I have it right here. Here we go.

Unknown_05: I'm going to keep those up. Here we go.

Unknown_05: Here's just a clip of, I mean, this is just one example of Critical talking about Jadeon being banned when he, like, quote-unquote, hate-rated Pokimane.

Unknown_02: Live and then spreading her butthole and pussy at the camera.

Unknown_02: She goes live and then just puts her ass right at the camera and just fully goat sees her chamber of secrets and has the pussy flaps all visible and everything. And just does that for like, what, 15, 20 seconds, something like that, and then goes offline. Claimed it was a mistake thinking she was on a different platform. She only received a three-day ban. Hopefully-

1:05:38
Unknown_05: So someone who spread their fucking butthole on Twitch got a three-day ban, and Destiny is banned permanently for saying that cis women shouldn't compete in the same league as trans women.

Unknown_05: Like, this is the website we're dealing with. This is not a site that's been consistent or fair with anything since the beginning of time. So I don't know why she would even say that. Only because they played her favor, I assume.

Unknown_16: You can always remember every year there's always these stories of like people sleeping with Twitch staff or getting favor or meeting them at parties and they get advantage. There's so many clips, so many people talking about it. Like it's not a tool. You cannot make the argument Twitch is consistent.

1:06:13
Unknown_05: no of course not especially when i mean you're literally claiming that you're that twitch is corrupt by saying that you're friends with people on twitch staff and they're watching him as he does these things implying that like you're sending him fucking shit you're sending them shit to uh get him banned like effles makes lots of claims like this there's a later when we talk later i've got another picture where she claims she also has like connections to the mainstream media and then she's like i'm not a manipulator i i don't have any control i don't know why they keep saying this like well you keep claiming you have this control so i don't know

1:06:46
Unknown_06: a lot of loss to him because um he or sorry even directly she caused loss to him because he lost his payout that month which sucks yeah yeah i mean it was it was it was from careful perspective it everything just fell into place decisive victory yeah and also it's just amazing how quickly it happened i mean this is like a day after the stream got banned i want to say right okay so that happened where do we go from here because keffel's is uh she's sort of like no one talks about her right now at least online but it seemed like she's trending right now on twitter i don't i wouldn't i wouldn't say that well even if she's trending right because she gets she's getting like 1000 people talking about her she was like huge for a little while and now things have died down wouldn't you say that's accurate you

Unknown_16: Yeah, I mean it's like like anything like on a YouTube channel on a Twitter or Twitter when I went to a row you challenging really well and they get pushed a lot through the algorithm of people are seeing it because they're interested in drama or news or streaming, you know, I think people saw the more in their feed, you know, I don't know about the popularity specific this popularity Wayne. It's not like she went from big to small. But yeah, I think she I think she rode away. Like I said immediately after destiny with all this big push. She went for Lauren Southern and got Lauren Southern. Well, not actually that's going to get to that as well.

Unknown_06: Yeah, so so right after the destiny thing, how many Twitter followers did she have?

Unknown_16: Do you know?

Unknown_16: This is a while ago. Okay, so she had a few like she had over 20. It was over a thousand. Over 20,000. Yeah, I would say. Yeah, there you go.

1:07:44
Unknown_16: what did i do to lauren southern um i ratioed her or something and then she said ratios right and she goes on she goes on to say we that was just doing a little trolling but it's like well once again like i don't really see the troll and just like saying that you got someone banned like just taking credit for it especially when you advocate for deplatforming people anyway it's like

Unknown_05: oh, you advocate for deplatforming people. They get deplatformed. You say, oh, I got them deplatformed. Like, what other conclusion are people supposed to draw from that, you know?

Unknown_27: They're calling me a pedophile. And that was my entire experience dealing with Lauren Southern.

Unknown_06: Can we count in the middle and say 10,000? Okay, so sure. So she had some Twitter following. She got big from owning Steven. Where does she go from there?

Unknown_16: So like I said, immediately it was ratioing Keemstar. Because Keemstar's like, who is this Keppel's bitch? She's just got one of the biggest streamers. Ratio transphobe, ratio this. And then she picked a fan with Lauren Southern. Because Lauren Southern had Destiny on her stream. And if you don't think about Twitch rules, if you have a banned streamer on your stream, you get banned as well. Because that's fan innovation.

1:08:37
Unknown_06: And for not- Wait. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. To this day, I don't know why she did this.

Unknown_16: Yeah.

Unknown_06: She had some Twitter following, she got big from owning Steven. Where does she go from there?

Unknown_16: So, like I said, immediately it was ratioing Keemstar, because Keemstar's like, who is this Keppel's bitch? She's just got one of the biggest streamer bands, like Ratio Transphobe, Ratio this. And then she picked a fan with Lauren Southern, because Lauren Southern had Destiny on her stream. And if you don't think about Twitch rules, if you have a banned streamer on your stream, you get banned as well, because that's band innovation.

Unknown_06: And for not Twitter banned people, ratioing is when you quote tweet someone and you get more likes. Yeah, no, it's very much a terminally online tactic.

Unknown_16: Like, it works with kids and it works with people. When I say it's terminally online, by the way, her chat starts seething. They're like, wow, this Twitter retard is... claiming claiming ratios are like ineffective wow wow wow i mean it is such big like people say it's ineffective but like in the end after all her ratios like kiwi farms is currently up destiny has his twitter back he's on youtube making money like she she failed but the ratios didn't do anything other than make her famous right i guess i literally have no clue what they what they were meant to do

1:09:11
Unknown_05: I mean, I assume to get her her own fame. I mean, you know, there was some talk about it like being important, but, you know, being important for trans people and being sort of an important social movement like what she was doing. But I mean, at the end of the day, like everything that she did is now undone. Kiwifarms.net is still up on its original domain. Nonetheless, like you can access it just the same as it was, you know, before she even came along.

1:09:49
Unknown_05: Destiny is around on YouTube, so it's just like, what even is there? Everything is undone. And it didn't even manage to make her internet famous because now she's on YouTube coping about the fact that she doesn't have... Sorry, she was on Twitch coping about the fact that she doesn't have a lot of live viewers. And even beyond that, I actually want to get this reference real quick. This is something I shit on her for months ago on my old Twitter page. Oh, is this your old tweet?

1:10:23
Unknown_16: Because if so, you didn't give me it.

Unknown_05: Yeah, I couldn't find the tweet. I just want to get the screenshot up.

Unknown_05: Here we go, guys. So this is a post she made.

Unknown_05: Hey, hi, everyone. This is a big ask, but the YouTube team has been working hard to try and get the channel boosted in the algorithm. If you want to help... Apparently, the best way to do this is watch hours. All you have to do is open the video that Isabelle just linked here and put it on play and watch it all the way through. You can walk away from your computer or turn the audio down. It doesn't matter. Once we get the channel showing up and people's recommendations, it'll be smooth sailing. I believe in the strength of the wigglers when they set their sights on a goal.

1:10:59
Unknown_05: And, uh, this.

Unknown_05: no one like fucking no one watches her on youtube uh if you go to her youtube channel when was this is there a date um i guess not but it was quite a while ago this is months ago like this this is when i still had a twitter like my my zap tie twitter so it must have been

Unknown_05: I think I got spent in October or November. I think October. So it's been four or five months, I think. And I mean, to this day, her channel is not doing very well. And even back then, she had to beg people to watch her fucking videos. Just a pro tip, Kev, was if you actually make good content, like people will just sit down and watch it. It's not the most impossible thing in the world. If you make entertaining content. people will watch it and YouTube will promote it. You don't need to encourage people to leave it on in the background so that you can fucking get your YouTube channel popular. For context... No, you can go ahead. I was going to say, for context, this is from October, and the moment it was made fun of, Kevles deleted it. yeah and of course she did and it's like you say like astro you see like you when i say astroturf you're like oh what do you mean astroturf just because i'm good at marketing but i think the only thing you're good at is getting popular on twitter from like bullshit ratios and when it comes to actually like getting an audience who enjoys you you're just fucking boring and bad at making content um and that's why you have to beg people to watch your videos i've never had to do this in my life i've never had to beg people to watch a fucking video like i just post it and if it's good people watch it and if it's not people don't watch it it's that simple you don't need to beg people to like not even properly watch it to basically manipulate the algorithm and uh leave your videos on in the background so that they can accrue watch time which is fake watch time because those people aren't actually fucking watching your videos um so yeah there you go we're gonna keep watching and can realize yeah i guess if you have a bigger push you will get more likes right okay so uh yeah lauren suddenly got banned on twitch because she had disney on her stream so keffil's immediately tried to take credit there's a tweet out there um

1:12:24
Unknown_27: yeah it's called we do a little trolling we do a little trolling it's it is really cool how people who are incredibly edgy cannot recognize when other people are being edgy i don't understand this point because if she was being edgy like saying lauren southern needs to kill herself or something extreme i'd be like okay you're being edgy but whatever but being edgy is not taking credit for someone else getting banned that's that's not being edgy that's lying and that's attention seeking

Unknown_05: It's lying. It's attention-seeking. And, like, she openly makes a statement saying, I got them banned. I got their income taken away. And when we say that, she said that. And when we say that, you know, that's something she wants to take credit for, she's like, oh, but I didn't actually do that. Huh. I was just pretending to be retarded. And it's like, okay, dude. Okay.

1:13:25
Unknown_16: Yeah, I go, you know, what a fucking week. I got associated with getting both Destiny and Lauren Southern banned on Twitch. And now the final boss of Transphobes, which is a reference to Null, is trying to coordinate a dog summary. Because right after this Lauren Southern thing, Kevles took credit. I got you banned on Twitch as well. Lauren Southern goes, no, here's the email. Twitch has proven that I actually got banned for getting Destiny on my stream. And then, of course, the Kiwi Farms bonus created because this is two big, big, you know, I want to say streamers, I guess political icons, getting banned in under a week. And then Kevles immediately jumped on that as well. Wow, I'm being attacked by these Kiwi Farmers.

1:13:59
Unknown_06: Right, so at this point, she's gotten Destiny banned, and she takes credit for that, which I think that was accurate. She didn't get Lauren banned, but she did take credit for it.

Unknown_16: I can't say it because I think it would go against TOS, but both sides, Keffel's fans and Lauren Southern fans, were using quite extreme language. A lot of people got banned. There was this person who was part of the law, and I know Keffel's story better than her, but basically a bunch of her mutuals and shit were getting in trouble with Lauren Southern fans. And both sides kept getting banned. So Kevels later will have her chat tell her, yeah, one of your friends got in trouble for this. And Kevels just sort of laughs, which is fair enough. I honestly don't believe she didn't know.

1:14:31
Unknown_05: I think she just played dumb and was hoping no one in chat would acknowledge it. Only the way it looks daft, because either I know more about her own lore than she does, which means she can't tell me that I'm wrong.

Unknown_16: Or alternatively, she does know and she's lying.

Unknown_22: True.

Unknown_16: What? Lauren is a right-winger, right?

Unknown_06: She's a conservative.

Unknown_16: Traditional conservative, I want to say.

Unknown_16: Basically, to keep it brief, Lauren was saying, well, I'm a mother with two kids. I'm completely secure. I don't care that my Twitch is gone and it wasn't you. Kevles fans are like, you're eggless and shit like that. I bet you can imagine what the response was from Lauren's fans.

1:15:06
Unknown_06: Yeah, so they were probably dead-naming her or whatever. Dead-naming kids, that kind of shit. Kiwi Farms has a website about this a lot in my videos, but a lot of people, I think, still don't even quite know what it is. Kiwi Farms has a gossip forum. Would you say that's accurate? Oh, Demon Mama called her Eggless?

Unknown_27: Is that like a part of the lore in Southern lore? I'm unfamiliar with this. This is all really old.

Unknown_05: I don't. Dude, she's so online. There's no way. Maybe she forgot it, but she definitely knew it at one time. Either way, when we're saying we don't understand why she's saying we're wrong, this is the primary example because either we know more than her or clearly there's some alternate universe, alternate storyline that everyone hasn't seen except for Catfalls.

1:15:50
Unknown_06: Mm hmm.

Unknown_06: The thing that makes it different from other websites is that it doesn't disallow doxing in the TOS. Now, doxing happens on every website, but Kiwi Farms is not a site that prohibits it. So if you go to someone's thread, it's not uncommon to find their personal information. No, actually, that's not true.

Unknown_27: Doxing is against the terms of service of most social media websites. And Kiwi Farms is very unique in that when they have a thread on you, they put your dox on the front page of the thread.

Unknown_05: So this is where she just says that we're wrong and then repeats what we just said. I can rewind this a little bit just so we can see that. I've sent you the relevant resources you want, by the way. Okay, awesome. So basically the point I make here is I'm like, doxing happens on every website, but every website actually doesn't allow it technically in their TOS, but it does happen. And I mean, just for some evidence of this, right? Here's a tweet from Def Noodles, funnily enough.

1:16:22
Unknown_05: Def Noodles says, Stan's taking it too far, Dream doxed after posting a picture of his kitchen on his second Twitter account. Dream has not published statements about the situation yet in his public accounts. Asking you shall receive 114 for the kitchen from Dream's photos on his second Twitter.

Unknown_16: I think you can all remember this when Dream got doxxed. I mean, he was trending for like two days on Twitter.

1:16:56
Unknown_05: His face got fucking doxxed and people were posting it on Twitter and those accounts didn't get suspended. So basically dream got docs and a stance about his house via Zillow since dream himself posted a video or a photo of his kitchen. Well, not one day and already 2021 is going to be one of those weird years. So like the, the point I'm making here and it's clear, but I'll just, I'll lay it out fucking explicitly is that, uh, people get docs on other websites too, including Twitter. Twitter just doesn't allow it in their TOS, at least technically. And Kiwi farms does, which I say, and we also have a Jalen video about this, which is kind of funny, uh, considering, uh, Jalen's history with Keffels.

1:17:34
Unknown_03: So, Dream was just doxxed. Now, if you guys don't know what doxxing is, it's pretty much when somebody finds your private information and leaks it for everybody else to find. And this is what happened to Dream. Basically, what happened is some- Okay, so we already explained this, but Point is that Keffels either didn't listen and thought Tom was saying Doc sings aloud everywhere, which he didn't say.

Unknown_16: It's quite plain language. Or again, this is a weird misinterpretation. I don't want to attribute motives to her, but I can't help but shape the feeling she's like intentionally misunderstanding what both of us say. Yeah. with two kids. I'm completely secure. I don't care that my Twitch is gone and it wasn't you. Kevils fans are like, you're eggless and shit like that. I bet you can imagine what the response was from Ron fans.

1:18:09
Unknown_27: Part of the lore in Southern lore? I'm unfamiliar with this. This is all really old.

Unknown_05: No, actually that's not true.

Unknown_27: Doxing is against the terms of service of most social media websites.

Unknown_05: Once again, I just said that in the video. I just said that.

Unknown_27: And KiwiFarms is very unique in that when they have a thread on you, they put your docs on the front page of the thread.

Unknown_05: And I also said that... Yeah, go ahead.

1:18:39
Unknown_16: I was going to say, KiwiFarms... I mean, you had Null on stream earlier, and he clarified. KiwiFarms does allow people to post doxing information. You can post someone's personal information. I don't like that, but they can do that. But they don't say go out and harass these people, stalk them. They literally just compile as much evidence as they can. I really can't think of an example where they've actually encouraged people. I mean, one of the rules is don't touch the poop. Don't go for the lolcows.

Unknown_05: Just observe. Now, in fairness, to be fair... when you talk about Kiwi farms, that stuff is going to happen for, as a result of the forum, right? If you have a site that allows people's personal info to be posted, like, I'm just saying, I'm just thinking of TOS and what the sites say in there, like in their fine print.

1:19:21
Unknown_16: Right. It's not like they're saying, yes, please go out and order a million pizzas. Right.

Unknown_16: like that, right? Yeah, so if you want me to quickly now head back, right after the Lauren Sumner thing, this Kiwi Farm photo was created. Now, I don't know how many of these claims are stunt-chasing or not, but what they found was a bunch of shit. There was a Sky trans... Well, Sky was the name of this trans porn star, both before and after their operation, and people connected the faces, the ages, and the time.

Unknown_06: So people at Kiwi Farm found out that supposedly... Supposedly Keffels, during her surgery, had, you know, did this little porn stunt.

Unknown_16: It was on a site called T-Girl Canada, because if you don't know, Keffels is in Canada. The face, the timing, it all kind of lines up, but I'm still not confident to this day to say if it's real. Keffels just keeps dancing around it, probably because it's a bit embarrassing if it's real, and if it's not, it's just not worth mentioning.

1:19:54
Unknown_27: What? No, I've admitted that I used to do porn. I've admitted that I used to work as a dominatrix. These are things that I've done.

Unknown_05: And here's the thing with this. She says she admitted to it, but the reason why we brought that up is because Kevles has explicitly... She hid from it for like over like half a year. Yes, she did. For half a year, she hid from it.

Unknown_16: And when she did, when she first referenced it, she called it revenge porn. Revenge porn is when someone uploads your porn against your will. Kevles willingly uploaded this.

Unknown_05: Right. Opening up about the harassment campaign against me for the last three months after old porn of me was leaked. She says old porn of me was leaked as if it was like some private thing. I can't keep pretending that harassment against me isn't fucking insane. I can't pretend that harassment against me isn't fucking insane. I'm dealing with revenge porn and doxing. That's not revenge porn. Revenge porn is when you send something to someone privately. Okay? In a private exchange. And it then gets leaked by that person maliciously to harm you. This was porn that you made and was available publicly. And you complained about it being fucking leaked and talked about. Unless there's some other nudes that I'm unaware of. But she never says that there are other nudes. And now on her stream, she's like, um...

1:21:04
Unknown_05: I was always, I was always open about that. I never said I didn't do that.

Unknown_16: She now jokes about it. There's like a tweet where she's like, I'm sorry, mom, I can't give you grandchildren. Best I've got is like a chat full of kids calling me mommy. So she, yeah, I guess now she jokes about it and she's cool with it now. But more so our point was she hid from it. And we even say in this stream, we don't have 100% proof. And that's not true because there is proof that it is Kevils. But we were still being nice about it and saying we don't fully know. So on every angle of this, it's not like we're being unfavorable. And Keffel's is really bending the rules when she's like, no, I am honest. I am open about it.

1:21:37
Unknown_27: Yeah. In my life.

Unknown_27: I've talked about it a lot openly. Like, yeah, I addressed this even before Destiny.

Unknown_05: Like, this is a totally... This is a totally different reaction.

Unknown_16: Maybe she's had like a Discord channel once.

Unknown_05: I used to do porn, but she never said it publicly.

Unknown_16: Dying and paid for the surgery. And of course, Kiwi Farmers immediately used that against her as like kind of bullying tactic. I'm not saying Kiwi Farmers is right or wrong in this. I'm just trying to give as fair a... But it's obviously shitty to, you know, shit on her for dying that or whatever.

1:22:10
Unknown_06: That's pretty bad. Yeah. So Kiwi does what they normally do.

Unknown_16: They dig into someone's past.

Unknown_06: Yeah, they just catalog everything from the Twitch history to this Catboy thing.

Unknown_16: I mean, they quickly realized how big of a digital footprint... Yeah, that's really fucked up trying to speculate on whether or not I manipulated my fucking dying father.

Unknown_05: I assume she's not implying that we did that here. No, she is.

Unknown_16: This is another misinterpretation. She's saying that we're blaming her for having a dying dad be used against her. Let me watch the clip again.

Unknown_16: Kethel's father who I think was dying and paid for the surgery and of course Kiwi Farmers immediately used that against her as like kind of bullying tactic. I'm not saying Kiwi Farmers is right or wrong in this, I'm just trying to give as fair a... It's obviously shitty to, you know, shit on her dying dad or whatever, that's pretty bad.

1:22:45
Unknown_06: Yeah. But Kiwi Kiwi, so Kiwi does what they normally do, they dig into someone's past. Yeah, they just catalog everything from the Twitch history to this Catboy thing.

Unknown_16: I mean, they quickly realized how big of a digital footprint... Yeah, that's really fucked up trying to speculate on whether or not I manipulated my fucking dying father.

Unknown_05: Maybe she is responding to what they said?

Unknown_04: Is she responding to us? No, no, no.

Unknown_16: She's saying that we're speculating that she's trying to use her dying dad. That's how I'm reading it. And keep in mind, at this current time, Kevles is still in hot water because after years of virtue signaling about cancer and her father, which I do relate to. I'm not at all using that against her. She recently said Metica has cancer and that's a skill issue. So, it's not even, again, that's edgy, and I don't mind that. That's an edgy joke. I'm not upset by that. I think that's why she's so like, oh, wow, that's weird. That's weird they're theorizing. Like, we're not claiming anything. We're just saying.

1:23:22
Unknown_05: Points like these are weird to make. When my dad was diagnosed with terminal cancer, he decided to dip into his life savings to pay for gender-reaffirming surgeries for me. He told me, when I die, I will have no use for money. I love you, and if I could help set you up for a better life before I die, I will be happy.

Unknown_05: So there's that tweet.

1:23:55
Unknown_05: I think it's a genuine sad story.

Unknown_16: All I was mentioning was that Kiwi Farms were being unfair and weren't just using shit she'd done. They were using her dying father or dead father against her.

Unknown_05: Right. And it's like, here, okay, sympathy for her own dad. But, you know, and it is a sweet story. It's like, you know, that's... I feel bad for her.

Unknown_16: I don't think that's at all like an L or like some sort of insult.

Unknown_05: But then when someone she doesn't like gets cancerous, motherfucker dedicated an entire stream to me where he coined the term trunshine to refer to hormone replacement therapy. I absolutely do not care that he got cancer. That's a skill issue on his part. And it's like, once again, like the total callousness, like... It's an edgy joke. I don't mind the edginess.

1:24:27
Unknown_16: I'm not.

Unknown_05: I don't want to either, but it's just like a total hypocrisy. You know what I mean? I mean, I mean, OK, we're supposed to feel bad for her with this. That's totally fine. But then, like when someone is mean to her on the Internet, this is her response.

Unknown_05: And even beyond that, I mean, once again, with other comments she's made, it just doesn't really make sense.

Unknown_05: Like, for example, with a 41% joke, it's like, okay, well, you can't joke about her being trans, and you can't joke about her dad or whatever. You can't speculate on that. But when someone she doesn't like gets cancer, she can cheer on his death, basically, right? Yeah, yeah. I don't put it too much.

1:25:01
Unknown_16: Unless someone wants to correct me, the way I read that comment is that she thinks we're trying to use the dead dad as a dig or, like, against her.

Unknown_15: I don't agree at all.

Unknown_05: No, I agree. I mean, obviously, yeah.

Unknown_15: just really strange.

1:25:38
Unknown_16: Yeah, I think it's important to mention as well is, you know, things like Kiwi Farms and Psychopedia Dramatica. When you're trying to be alt media, you kind of have to go against the norm. I don't want to be too political. I'd say it's fair to say a lot of left wing talking points are supreme. So Kiwi Farms and ED almost feel like they have to be transphobic and they have to be misgendered just to be different energy.

Unknown_06: And I don't think it's bad or good.

Unknown_16: That's just how it is.

Unknown_06: And probably a big part of that also is just that, like, because you can't say that on mainstream platforms, people who... Did he just call Kiwi Farms an alt media website?

Unknown_16: It's alt-media.

Unknown_05: I don't know what this point is. I don't know what this is supposed to be like. It's an alternative site. It's not in the mainstream. It's a site that people who don't... It doesn't conform. It's underground somewhat.

Unknown_16: I don't know what an alt-media site is if Kiwi Farms isn't an alt-media site.

1:26:14
Unknown_05: In essence, it's the alt-media site. It's a site that allows... It's the most popular right now. I think that's fair to say. I can't think of a site that's bigger that's in the vein of Kiwi Farms. It's

Unknown_27: He called an all media website and he said he doesn't want to say whether or not transphobia is bad or good.

Unknown_15: No, I don't want to pass judgment on the site as a whole.

Unknown_16: Look, at the end of the day, I don't think transphobia is a good thing. It's mean-spirited, and it's just using someone's identity against them. But my main overall point is that I'm neither a Kiwi Farms mega-fan, and I'm not a Keffels ultra-defender either.

1:26:52
Unknown_00: I'm just saying Kiwi Farms documented her fucked, really weird past, and they also used her dead dad against her, and Keffels makes really bad decisions and can be criticized.

Unknown_16: I wasn't trying to say transphobias chill with me because it's Keffels. That's not where I'm going with that.

Unknown_04: Yeah, yeah.

Unknown_27: This is wild. Like he's trying to do the I'm neutral on this, but he's being neutral about bigotry.

Unknown_05: And once again, we're not being neutral about bigotry. Like, we literally have gone out of our way to be as accommodating as possible to her. I literally, in the chat, like, for chat before the stream started, I went and banned the two most popular, like, slurs for transgender people. I got rid of those. You can go back and chat. I banned the fucking number 41% as well.

1:27:36
Unknown_05: And even during that conversation at the end, we also say that, like, we're not cool with transphobia. and even here like during this clip like it's it's to me at least it's clear that you're not saying like i'm not going to say whether transphobia is a good or bad thing um sorry to mock your british accent no i don't care go ahead um but but like even then you say that you're just like you know whether kiwi farms as a whole is a good or bad thing like i'm kind of one way or the other on it i'm not ready to have the debate about whether kiwi farm should exist or not and i'm not trying to give credence to either side i'm just trying to be as fair as i can when i retell the story

1:28:18
Unknown_06: Yeah, yeah. People who want to say it will go to Kiwi, right? Yeah, I mean, when you googled Keffels, your options were the YouTube, the Twitch, and the Kiwi Farms thread.

Unknown_16: Most other old sites, like I mentioned ED, are suppressed and hidden. So, I can see why Keffels went against it, or went after it, but to be honest, everyone gets a Kiwi Farms thread.

Unknown_00: It was kind of daft to respond to it.

Unknown_16: And it happened so quickly, I mean, Keffels had been in the news for like two weeks, and this thread already had so much on it. Like 600 pages at the time, even. Uh, no, 200, or 180. 180. Right after she said, um, I'm attacking the King of Transphobes.

Unknown_06: Okay, so, being Steven, right? Steven's the King of Transphobes.

Unknown_16: No, no, no, Null. No, no, no, no. The timeline so far was the Destiny thing, attacking Lauren Southern. Kiwi Farms' third page is made. About a week later, Keffil's is like, wow, what a week. I'm attacking now the King of Transphobes, Null. And so Null puts Keffil's page on the front page and goes, lol, lol, lol, I'm the King of Transphobes. Right, he was cool with that.

1:28:53
Unknown_06: He was cool with that. I think he was having fun with it.

Unknown_16: I don't think he could have ever realized how big a support Keffil's was going to get.

Unknown_06: Right, so at this point, Keffil's, her primary enemy prior to that was Kiwi Farms, and now her primary enemy became, or sorry, her primary enemy was Steven, and her primary enemy now was Kiwi Farms, yeah?

Unknown_16: Yeah, I think that's fair. I think she pivoted her attention.

Unknown_27: You thought I waited months to talk about the Kiwi Farms thread?

Unknown_27: Yeah, no, I made like, I did make like a tweet after the Lauren Southern thing and be like, looks like I'm getting attacked by the final boss of Transphobes, which I was talking about Null, he mentioned me on his podcast.

1:29:30
Unknown_05: Yeah, is this what you said as well?

Unknown_16: Basically, yeah, she's agreeing with me that the timeline is Destiny, Lauren Southern, and then mentioning the Kiwi Farms article and eventually later actually going to war with them.

Unknown_05: so are you speeding up the video or is Kelpful speeding up yours well I sped up the video I don't think she sped up mine she played your video in normal speed but your video is barely an hour her response is like an hour and a half and we're taking way too long so speeding up is just one of many tricks yeah that's why I have it on 1.5 I didn't know what Kiwi Farms even was really at that point I just knew that it was particularly bad do you think that's honest you think she didn't know what Kiwi Farms was

1:30:09
Unknown_16: There's a bunch of little things from her supposedly of going on there to having an account. I'm not going to post that right now, but if Keffels wants to combat me on this, there's plenty of screenshots out there which I can grab. Sure.

Unknown_27: We talk about Kiwi Farms for months after that.

Unknown_27: But I have a very good feeling that Null really regrets this entire situation that he put himself in.

Unknown_05: And the thing is, I don't know that he does because, I mean, the site is still up. I mean, I guess maybe we'd have to ask him ourselves to see. But from everything he said, I know you're not going to. I mean, from everything he said publicly about the situation, it seems like he, you know, he just wanted to stand by his ideals and he was willing to do that no matter what.

1:30:51
Unknown_05: You know, whether his ideals are good or not being like, I guess, transphobia or like, you know, keeping a website up like QE farms. That's another thing. But I would say as far as regret, it seems like he doesn't really care.

Unknown_05: Yeah.

Unknown_05: Hold up. I got to unmod someone apparently real quick. Let me let me deal with this.

Unknown_16: Yeah, well done to all the moderators keeping the chat somewhat in check. Again, we said it in the video, in the main video, but I'll say it again here. You're allowed to criticize Kefl's actions, Kefl's ideas, but relying on insults about transphobia and her identity is just useless. It only gives her more of an advantage.

1:31:27
Unknown_05: Of course, yeah. I'm just going to go through and unmod someone. Apparently they're being a little bit spicy.

Unknown_04: Content.

Unknown_04: I fucking hate the YouTube layout. Okay, here we go.

Unknown_04: Moderators.

Unknown_04: Um, where the fuck is this guy?

Unknown_04: There we go. Alright, I unmodded him.

Unknown_05: We're good now. We can get back to, uh, back to our regularly scheduled Kefl's reaction.

1:32:02
Unknown_05: Um, let's go. Make sure my window...

Unknown_05: All right, guys, we'll get back to this. Apologize. Apologize for the holdup, okay? Slightly scuffed stream today.

Unknown_05: Okay, so Kiwi Farms is now her number one enemy. And what were her gripes with the site? Obviously, there was a transphobia. Obviously, they made a threat about her. But what was it beyond that?

Unknown_16: Doxing?

Unknown_05: I mean, it was transphobia. I think so. Her main gripe is doxing. Her main gripe with the site is that they dox people, according to her.

Unknown_16: Yes, they had her dox. But, well, actually, I won't say that. It's not fair. I'm attributing. We'll get to it later. Okay. It was also just in general that she was the site. Like you mentioned, right, it's fair to say the site engages in bullying.

1:32:33
Unknown_05: No, it was the doxing.

Unknown_16: Okay, so her... I think we should address this now.

Unknown_05: She says her problem is the doxing.

Unknown_20: Okay.

Unknown_05: Now, someone like Keppel's, obviously, being that she's so anti-doxing, would not have a history of doxing herself, right? That would be ridiculous.

Unknown_05: Yeah, hold on. I'm just grabbing a clip.

Unknown_16: There's a clip where Keppel's admits to Destiny that she knows it's not Kiwi Farms behind the edge of swatting and doxing.

Unknown_05: Right. So we should definitely see that if you have it on hand.

Unknown_05: But Keffels herself has also at least expressed intent to dox people and we should show that. So yeah, so there's two issues I have with this stance.

1:33:10
Unknown_16: Number one is that yes, they had her dox, but there's another website she knows about that was doing the actual doxing, like sending pizzas to her house and chasing her around the United Kingdom. The other problem is that we have a lot of screenshots and proof that Keffels has and tries to dox people. So on both counts, she loses.

Unknown_05: All right, so here's her admitting that Kiwi Farms has not decided to dox her.

Unknown_11: Zero paste? I was scared. Website zero users aren't stupid like Kiwi Farms users. They simply post the docs and are smart enough to know how to hack accounts, collect info from data breaches, and use social engineering to get the information they need. She knew about that website the entire time, but she never told you guys because she wanted to pin everything on Kiwi Farms because that's what her crusade was against. Because that's where the fame and fortune and media attention was. It wasn't on this other website that is a bit more scary than Kiwi Farms.

1:33:45
Unknown_12: Website zero retaliated against me.

Unknown_05: That's the best piece of evidence I have. Yeah, she knew about the site. She knew that this other site was doxing her, was more malicious. And Kiwi Farms did post her dox as far as... Kiwi did post her dox, and every time the other website would do something to her, they would laugh and they would congratulate them.

Unknown_16: I'm not at all saying they're blameless. I'm just saying they weren't behind it, which is what Kefals is implying. Well, they were doxing me. That was my issue. Well, you know that's not true.

1:34:22
Unknown_05: Right. And as far as I know, there's also instances of Kefl's at least expressing intent to dox people. We have that on hand.

Unknown_16: Yeah, but she later on is going to say, I don't dox people. I think that's the best time.

Unknown_05: Oh, she says that in this?

Unknown_16: Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I think it's fair to say. And Kefl's like, this is a hate site. Why is it still around? I don't like my page. I bet people don't as well. This wasn't when she started using the death of trans people, by the way. This is a pre-date stat. It was mainly just a gripe with the site apparently.

Unknown_06: Okay, so it was a gripe with the site, and she starts getting support on Twitter. At this point, had the drop of Kiwi Farms not happened?

Unknown_16: Null makes a stream. No, no, no, that came like two or three months afterwards. So Null does his, is it called Mad at the Internet?

1:34:54
Unknown_06: Mad at the Internet is the founder of Kiwi Farms, or at least the host of Kiwi Farms, the guy who runs the site, Null. It's his weekly stream where he talks about internet gossip and drama, yes.

Unknown_16: Yeah, exactly. So Null does a stream, and he kind of goes over it. Again, at the time, the unsubstantiated claims. Again, I think they're pretty much substantiated now, like the Sky Porn Star thing. Catboy ranch would skip the short context not fully proven, but supposedly keffals ran a Twitter account where people who had unverified ages would go around showing off BDSM collars they bought and could talk to anyone again with unsubstantiated age.

Unknown_06: Through a Discord? Was that it? This was a Discord.

Unknown_16: Well, it was a Twitter account that promoted a Discord. So the Twitter account would tweet out, you know, screencaps on the Discord and femboy memes, which I know you're a big fan of, Tom.

Unknown_06: But we don't know. Funny. We don't know if that's really real, right? We don't know if she actually... We don't. We know that Keffals ran the Twitter account and we know that Keffals was an admin on them. We don't know if there was some... You said we do?

1:35:28
Unknown_16: Yeah, we do know that Catboy Ranch had a bunch of minors running around, Keffels was in charge, and there was flirting with underage children. But I didn't say here if it was 100% true, because A, on hand, I didn't have the evidence, and B, it looks quite bad for Keffels. There's some screenshots of Keffels on the Catboy Ranch account flirting with a 16-year-old, but if she knew he was 16, is up in the air.

Unknown_05: Mm-hmm.

Unknown_05: Yeah. So, I mean, that's the thing about it. And that's why we didn't make that accusation, I assume, at the time, because we didn't want to pin it on her. But we will show the screenshots now because I think it's important to have here.

1:35:59
Unknown_05: Here we have, let's see here, Maya Moo saying, Thank you, Rancher, reporting for duty 07. Less than two weeks to my 18th birthday. I'm going to go wild, get a credit card and shit. And those two screenshots have two years apart. Right. There we go. Keep in mind, Cowboy Ranch operated in 2020.

Unknown_05: Right. Thank you, Rancher. Reporting for Studio 7. We're going to see this other screenshot.

Unknown_16: So that's the same Moo being flirted with with Keffels in the Catboy account. Now, I will give Keffels the benefit of the doubt that she didn't know this person was 16.

1:36:39
Unknown_05: Right. And obviously, I mean, that's important to say. But I mean, that's very important. I don't think I'm going to say this right now.

Unknown_16: Maybe this is a dent to my credibility, but I don't think Kehles is a pedophile. I don't think she goes after children. I've seen people say that. I don't think it's fair to say she does that on purpose.

Unknown_05: Joe Biden has been president for 20 minutes, and look what he's done to me. Watch out, you're next. And here we have Kevles who ran the Cowboy Ranch account with this picture of JFK from Clone High saying, damn, you ass fat, what's your pronouns? They say she, they, um, someone says that's so cool. Thank you. So that's just one of them.

1:37:15
Unknown_05: Um, here's this one.

Unknown_05: I'll be 18, two years from today. Happy 16th birthday. So this is the same. These are two people involved with the cowboy account. Yeah. Yeah. So, um,

Unknown_16: Basically, my overall point here is like, yeah, there were children running around, but I'm not going to fully blame Keffels and say she knew. But Keffels is going to have an issue with the Catboy Ranch. I might as well provide some form of evidence.

Unknown_00: There's a few more screenshots I didn't show just because I don't have on good authority that they're real.

1:37:51
Unknown_15: I don't want to throw around fake claims, but I think Keffels has probably seen them.

Unknown_16: I've seen them a bunch of times on both the Kiwi Films thread and other like threads. So I think it's a fairly shared screenshot.

Unknown_16: For example, the whole unsubstantiated age thing. While it is true, there's no proof at all that A, any grooming happened, B, that Keffels even knew, and C, that Keffels was even that big on the server. We don't really know if Keffels had the ability to check ages or get people banned like that. We just know that Keffels was in charge of the Twitter and had somewhat of an influence. But even then, it's not fair to blame her or to point one way or the other.

Unknown_06: Okay, that makes sense. Alright, so... At this point, Kepples is sort of at war with Steven, being Destiny. Why don't you call him Steven? Oh no, they have to bring that up.

Unknown_27: Even though they'll say, oh, it's completely unsubstantiated, they need to poison the well, because people who are already predisposed to thinking trans people are groomers are gonna run with that regardless if there's evidence. But it's like, this is so stupid.

1:38:31
Unknown_05: We literally were so... I mean, once again, anti-transphobic, I would say, in the video.

Unknown_16: nice i you and i both said it's not substantiated but i had to mention it because it was prominent is a criticism and like we've just shown here there is proof of it we didn't have proof at the time because there's like an improvised stream and i didn't want to be too mean i just had to mention it it's not poisoning the well we're really nice in this video yeah and if we i mean if we thought she was being super inappropriate with minors like why wouldn't we bring that up as a point against her but we we just we just said earlier i don't think couples is a pedophile i just think this is a major fuck up

1:39:05
Unknown_05: Yeah, yeah.

Unknown_27: That's why they bring it up.

Unknown_27: She's my best friend.

Unknown_06: Yeah, so she's at war with them. Where does it go from there? She was popular, but there was a point when she was viral, being tweeted by every journalist in the world.

Unknown_16: Yeah, well, I can get to that. I think the other thing I just quickly mentioned was there was a really bad period after this where Kevils kind of lost a bit of the support she just gained. She did a bunch of attack streams of Destiny. They were all kind of improvised. And you might have seen these clips because everyone was retweeting them. Kevils did this kind of sneaker, not sneaker, the flamenco thing of making an unsanitary claim and then immediately taking it back. And that claim was that Steven was stealthing.

Unknown_16: This timeline is so off. It's not. Once again, I don't think the timeline is off, but even if it was, why is there a problem with that?

1:39:40
Unknown_05: Shouldn't she be responding to the fact that we just said that she made a false allegation? Like, she gets mad at us right before this saying. It's like... Oh, well, you know, you guys brought that up to poison the well and make me look like a pedophile because a lot of transphobes, you know, think that trans people are groomers. And then when we bring this up, just like complete silence on her end.

Unknown_16: I hate to spoil it as well, but she's going to complain and say that I get stealthing wrong. Now, I did get stealthing wrong. Stealthing is when you secretly remove the condom, not put a hole in it. Um, but A, that doesn't really change it. It's still trying to get a girl pregnant. And B, she doesn't respond to the fact that she lied about Destiny being a rapist. She just goes, well, the definition is wrong. No, no, no. You still lied. You still lied and made a really, really unfair malicious claim. Right. Right. Keffel was doing a stream. She's like, I just don't like this. It's something along these lines. I'm paraphrasing.

1:40:15
Unknown_27: That's also, I mean, that's also not what stealthing is, but, um.

Unknown_27: Yeah, let him cook it.

Unknown_16: I don't like Destiny. I don't like Steven. He's a bad guy. I mean, I've heard plenty of claims that he's stealthing. Oh, no, she goes, you know, it's rich for him to call me a groomer when, which he didn't. It's rich for him to call me a groomer when he's stealthing girls. And then she carefully immediately goes, okay, I didn't mean that. I just think I've heard it. So it immediately goes back on it, but it's too late kind of thing.

Unknown_06: So she got shit from her audience? Because I thought her audience was kind of blinding. Her audience kind of turned on her, but mainly it was, you know, the people like Keemstar who were just in it for the drama who go, hold on a minute, you can't make a claim like that.

1:40:50
Unknown_05: That's bullshit. She didn't even try and go like, no, that's wrong. Did she lose support for a prolonged period? Yeah, a little

Unknown_16: the major Keffel fans who are like, wow, you're the pillar of the trans community, you represent us. And then there's the other side where it's like, I'm transgender and I think Keffel's is a bad influence, she doesn't represent us and she keeps lying, it doesn't look good for us. There's a kind of divide there, and that's where it really became apparent during that era.

Unknown_06: Yeah, I remember around this time, she got into an argument with my friend Newposter Bailey. Oh, I know Newposter. I remember this. I don't remember what they said. Not like personally, I just followed them. Yeah, they're pretty cool. Actually, it's funny that I bring them up because I stayed at their place when I went to a Sea of Destiny debate. But I don't know, what do you mean, oh yeah?

1:41:22
Unknown_27: I don't know.

Unknown_06: Okay, very funny. Wow.

Unknown_27: I cannot imagine the type of person who would literally travel anywhere to see a Destiny debate.

Unknown_05: So I stayed their place, and then a week later... Once again, I don't even know what this point means.

Unknown_05: I don't know either. I don't know.

Unknown_05: They got in some huge beef with like Keffels. And I don't, do you know what the deal is there? I don't actually know. It was one of many.

Unknown_16: I mean, I kid you not, right? So Keffels had this second account that was locked for like venting.

Unknown_06: Right.

Unknown_16: And she deleted it. She's like, I hate harassment. And then like an hour later on her main account, she's trying to ratio Wendy's and trying to ratio a new poster. Do you know Rocky on Twitter?

1:41:54
Unknown_05: No.

Unknown_16: oh okay well that's a kind of a adjacent to a new poster in that kind of realm of twitter world you know trying to start fights with them like kev will just keep studying these fights keeps doing these things for attention it was i don't i don't know fully about new person maybe there's more to that than that uh more to it the story than that but i mean it was just these constant ratios if you put one thing right yeah okay so she's going after she's having twitter wars but she loses a little support what happens after that

Unknown_05: The second Twitter account... I like that she doesn't even contest that. She just kind of, like, ignores it. There's so many moments where... Again, I don't know if she's, like... Because there's these bits where it seems she's not listening.

Unknown_16: So I don't know if she doesn't listen and she misunderstands what we're saying or she's malicious later on when she, like, gives us claims we're not making. It's so weird. It's such a bizarre response. Right. It's banned before she can release it. And then the main Twitter account gets banned in, like, June. So we're in June now. June 2021. This is just, like, a wild... This is fucking wild. We'll never... I don't think he's even written anything down.

1:42:31
Unknown_27: No, I have my notes in front of me, but it's improvised.

Unknown_05: She says it's wild, but, like, she's barely contested anything in the last half hour. Like, she hasn't brought up a single thing that we were totally wrong about. Like, it hasn't... It's either been, like, well, she lied about something, and we, like...

Unknown_05: like reiterated her own lie or she lied about something and we called her out for lying like i don't fucking i just don't one of the few points when the few points where she like proves us wrong is like when we had to believe her and she's like no i lied there i don't know why they believe me it's like well how the fuck can we trust you yeah

1:43:18
Unknown_16: Really? No. What was the screen cap? Account suspended. Twitter suspended. Rules that violated Twitter rules. She never said. I don't think so. No.

Unknown_06: Gotcha.

Unknown_16: All right.

Unknown_06: Yeah, no, I'm rereading this now because, oh, God, I hate my writing.

Unknown_16: No, no, no. It was mainly just a major suspension, probably because Kevles kept doing these attack tweets. It probably just got to the wrong person at the wrong time.

Unknown_06: Okay, so she got suspended. What's the state of her then? Are there people like, okay, well, she's done. She's going to get irrelevant.

Unknown_27: Okay, I remember why I got suspended. I think it's because I said to someone who called me a groomer, I think I said I was going to fuck their mom in the ass, but in a way that triggered Twitter TOS's violence.

1:43:54
Unknown_27: I don't remember exactly what I said. It was a your mom joke, but like, yeah. Oh, yeah, I got banned for saying I was going to destroy his mom's womb.

Unknown_16: No, I mean, she immediately makes an alt account.

Unknown_05: Her friend made it.

Unknown_16: I mean, I mean, you know, I would never, I would never accuse anyone. Of vanivating? Certainly not me.

Unknown_05: You wouldn't know that, Tom, right? I would have no, absolutely no, uh, no knowledge about it. Again, she can't call you out for having an alt. I mean, your friend having an account. Because she did the same thing after her ban. Of course. So two Ds. But she didn't make that point, so I'm not using that against her. Um, but okay.

Unknown_06: So, she makes an alt. Oh yeah, that's, I'm going to be multiplying that.

Unknown_16: Yeah, she got mad at Rocky because Rocky told, basically said, Kevils, get the fuck off the internet, take a chill pill.

1:44:28
Unknown_05: Yeah.

Unknown_16: That was her.

Unknown_16: Do you remember the July stream with Destiny on the front with a bunch of slurs?

Unknown_05: Yeah, I remember the thumbnail.

Unknown_16: I have the picture. I don't know if this goes against the rules anymore, so I don't know if I want to show it. I might be able to bring it up. Does it have them in full, the slurs? This is literally just the thumbnail. I don't know if you're going to blur it. Oh, that's not great. That's the article. No, ignore that. Have I seen Tom's n-word messages?

Unknown_27: I have not. Would you like to send me them?

Unknown_16: Here we go! While I'm giving you this image, I'll give you context. So Keffild's Fire is a stream she's been hyping up for about a week. Supposedly the only one with F being put into it.

1:45:00
Unknown_06: It's gonna be Exposing Destiny, right?

Unknown_16: Exposing Destiny, yeah. And the thumbnail has the F slur for gay people. It has a few other, like, slightly transphobic phrases, I wanna say. It has the Kiwi Farms logo faded onto it, which is a bit daft, because Destiny is not liked in Kiwi Farms, has like a really disliked account, and doesn't really associate with that community.

Unknown_06: Right.

Unknown_16: So, ain't a good look. I probably shouldn't show it on stream now that I see it, but I do remember the thumbnail going around.

Unknown_06: No, I was gonna say, there's the thumbnail for you, but yeah.

Unknown_16: So Careful's halfway through, she's simultaneously streaming this on YouTube and Twitch. Halfway through, her Twitch stream goes down. And there was already kind of fuckery around this stream, because the YouTube one had its comments disabled, whereas the Twitch one didn't. So no one on the YouTube stream could send her messages or soup chats. That's not true. So people were already kind of like, oh, this is true. So she says that's not true.

1:45:32
Unknown_05: What would be your response to that? Basically, there's a bunch of tweets when the streams first started saying, why can't I comment on the YouTube?

Unknown_16: And then she claims it's because of, like, mass harassment. They had to close the YouTube one. But she closed the YouTube comments from the beginning. So how could there have been harassment to see?

Unknown_22: Yeah.

Unknown_16: That stream got brigaded by DTG, so I had to disable comments. And DTG, apparently Destiny himself, was, like, brigading it. Again, I'd love to see the proof of that, because I can't even find any.

Unknown_05: Yeah, there's no evidence. And once again, I mean, with the prior hate raid, like the timestamps didn't even match up. Like his tweet was two hours after the stream when they banned like he was like, oh, or her mod. What was her name again? They were like, oh, well, as soon as we decided to ban everyone who was subscribed to Destiny.

1:46:05
Unknown_16: Sue and Ella, whatever his name is. Yeah.

Unknown_05: Yeah. The hate raid stopped. It's like, OK, well, probably like fucking half your chat subscribe to Destiny. So I imagine that's why.

Unknown_16: The Twitch one went down, so Kevles was kind of half panicking and just stopped the YouTube one. And Nick, for example, made fun of Kevles because Kevles was like, wow. Sorry, Nicholas Diorio was like, you know, well, Kevles tweeted out, wow, my stream got mass spammed. Wait, you were in another political stream the other day and someone in chat randomly went off on you for standing over the 200k charity thing? But she's about to claim that she can't be transphobic or something. You're here. Are you in? So he actually owned her.

1:46:44
Unknown_16: Kind of. It was just a good tweet. Just ratioed.

Unknown_06: But everybody ratioed her. I mean, I consider that an own. I mean, that's rare. Especially his account's way smaller.

Unknown_16: Yeah, well, Kefla was doing a Winnie Mac show as well. Winnie Mac show was doing the whole, you know, if you keep trying to attack people, if you keep trying to be harder than now, you can't really be upset when you get in trouble for, you know, a homophobic, you know, banner or whatever. Basically, she was picking fights with commentary channels, trying to claim transphobia. It just wasn't a good look.

1:47:21
Unknown_27: Wait, wait, wait, wait. It's not a good look to claim transpho- what?

Unknown_16: Again, a really unfair mischaracterization. Basically, my point there, which I just made, and then I was summarizing, was that she thought it was transphobia that her stream got banned. But in actuality, it was for having slurs on her, like, thumbnail. So when I say crying transphobia wasn't a good look, what I mean was crying transphobia when it was for completely unrelated reasons she got banned. But she misinterprets this, I think on purpose personally, that I'm trying to say claiming transphobia is why you got banned is not a good look.

1:47:58
Unknown_05: Yeah, I mean, yeah, just another one of these.

Unknown_27: Not a good look to claim transphobia.

Unknown_27: This is wild. So, like, at what point is it a good look to claim transphobia?

Unknown_05: When someone's being transphobic to you and you're not being banned for your own retarded actions where you put a bunch of slurs in a fucking thumbnail. I'm not even brash enough to put slurs in a fucking YouTube thumbnail, okay? Because I know that would be bad. Degenerates.

Unknown_15: Creeps.

Unknown_05: And we're, yeah, why would I, that's so crazy. Um, so yeah, I mean, it was so, I mean, and she did it on Twitch, so it's so obvious. I mean, um, at what point is it not a cringe or at what point is it not like stupid to claim transphobia? Yeah.

1:48:31
Unknown_16: Kevil said earlier, like, you're trying to defend bigotry and I'm just trying to silence bigotry. Yeah, well, then if you campaign and if you advocate for banning bigotry, you cannot be upset and blame it on being trans when you get banned for having a bigoted thumbnail. Right. You asked for this.

Unknown_27: You just never say that anything is ever transphobic.

Unknown_05: And yeah, that was a totally unfair characterization. That's not what we said at all.

Unknown_16: I think it's a bit malicious that I think she genuinely misinterpreted it there. I think the other ones you can claim she wasn't listening, but that's an unfair. I was pretty frank with my wording. Yeah.

1:49:10
Unknown_06: Okay. So, and then, yeah, this is, this is when, uh, after like July, this is when, uh, hashtag drop Kiwi farm started.

Unknown_16: I think Keffel's realized going off the commentary and going off the destiny wasn't going to work out.

Unknown_06: No.

Unknown_16: She decided to pick a new target.

Unknown_06: Do you think it was cynical or do you think she actually like really hated Kiwi farms or.

Unknown_16: I wouldn't want to comment. I will never really know what goes on in the mind of Keffals. Okay. Maybe both?

Unknown_16: Maybe both.

Unknown_27: I think one thing that's weird to me about watching videos like this is that I'm very transparent about why I do the things that I do. Like, I go live almost every day. I talk about these things. I'm very open to answering questions earnestly. But still, people try to pretend that I am this incredibly cryptic person.

1:49:41
Unknown_05: But the problem with this is, like, you pretend to be cryptic. You act cryptic by constantly lying and then walking it back. You say, oh, I got Destiny banned. Oh, well, I didn't actually get Destiny banned. So transparent that you can't trust what I say because it's probably trolling. Yeah. And then there's this other instance where, in the YouTube comments section, she was like, yeah, I know. Like, someone was, like, calling her out for a lie. They're like, well, why did you lie about this? And she was like, oh, I was just trying to bait Destiny. And it's like... And then and then now here she's like you want the four examples or should we leave it? I think it would be good to bring them out Yeah, and you'll be good to bring it So I'm gonna get put out for major allegations and I'm gonna provide proof for all four of them Just so we're all clear that Keffel's is not very transparent and is not very honest right Keffel's has accused chud logic which is another political streamer of being a pedophile with no proof and

1:50:17
Unknown_16: Again, it's the Destiny stealthing with no proof. Accused Flamenco of being a doxa with her only proof being that he has a KiwiFarms account. And accused another person I haven't really done too much research on called SondSol and claimed they were transphobic and tried to get them banned off their platforms. Again, with no proof. I'm now going to provide evidence for all four of those claims. But if Kefals is like this honest, transparent person, why does she keep flip-flopping, lying, and being really antagonistic? I don't think it's fair for her. I don't think she's allowed to say, I'm very honest, and I'm very fair, and I'm very truthful.

1:51:07
Unknown_05: Yeah, yeah. And there's, I mean, there's instance after instance. We're going to give you four right now, okay? Which is, they say three times the charm. We're going to have four instances where Kefals explicitly lied, went out of her way to lie about someone.

Unknown_05: And it was so blatantly false. And this will just show that her intentions are not so clear. So we're going to start with the obvious one that we referenced earlier.

Unknown_05: Kepples accuses Destiny of rape and then immediately goes back on it.

Unknown_05: Here we go.

1:51:41
Unknown_27: Oh yeah, meanwhile he stealths people, which is legitimately a form of rape.

Unknown_27: Insane. Insane shit.

Unknown_16: Give it a minute and she'll be like, well, I don't know. Because someone asks her proof.

Unknown_27: Isn't that what...

1:52:16
Unknown_27: Wait, I don't know if he did it. Wait.

Unknown_16: Look at that. Look at that. In under a minute.

Unknown_16: In real time. I don't actually know if he did it, but he argued that it is not a form of rape. You can't make an accusation if you don't know if he did it. I mean, that's so, like, yeah, it's daft in your words.

Unknown_05: A whole minute, a literal minute of silence before.

Unknown_16: Well, I don't know. Like, you can't make that claim.

Unknown_05: This cat box file isn't loading right now, unfortunately.

Unknown_15: Are you kidding? It works for me. Shit.

1:52:48
Unknown_05: Hold up. I'll just try the other links first, and we'll go back to that one.

Unknown_15: The cat box one is chud logic, where she's constantly saying, oh, pedophile, pedophile.

Unknown_16: And then again, it's like, well, people have told me, and that's a lot of people with good sources have told me. That's her claim.

Unknown_05: This one is where she accuses Flamenco of doxing, right? This one right here.

Unknown_27: Yes. Oh, and also that we're, you know, we can actually have a conversation now that, like, things have moved further on. Yeah. Like, I don't know. I think, like, the same, like, what I said, I made a video where I covered a bit of it. I know Dylan saw it on the stream and apparently accepted my apology. I was just, like, really fucking upset because, like, yeah, Flamenco did... take part in doxing my mom.

1:53:23
Unknown_05: That's a big claim. It's a big claim, and I'm not someone who wants to defend Flamenco, obviously. We were both present for that conversation, and neither of us wants to defend Flamenco. I was muted, but yeah. Yeah, but Flamenco, as far as I know, did not dox Keffels, and her explanation of this...

Unknown_16: is that he has a kiwifarms account and he put a message in the uh in what like i put a message on the thread you know because the thread is just a collection of messages and yeah okay that's proof that he might be a bit unfair towards you but there's no proof that he was doxing your mother like what right i'm gonna keep playing this clip for another minute and then we'll move on to the next one like he was part of this group of people that did that and he's made like several videos where he just goes on insane rants about me

1:54:18
Unknown_25: So, like, full disclosure, I am friends with Flamenco. And I know he is, like, kind of a controversial figure.

Unknown_25: But when I asked him about it, and I asked him, like, did you take part in doxing Keffels or her mom? He said that, no, like, he wasn't part of that. But I think it was probably the Kiwi Farms community that was part of it. Which he's a part of.

Unknown_25: Yeah, but I would say having an... And he was active in my thread.

Unknown_05: And once again, it's like, okay, he was on your thread, but that doesn't mean he doxxed you. And doxxing you is different from being in a place where your doxx was. You know what I mean? It's not the same exact thing.

1:54:52
Unknown_16: I've put out plenty of tweets on Twitter. Does that mean I endorse doxxing?

Unknown_05: Of Dream, right? I mean, just for example.

Unknown_15: Yeah, I made a joke about Dream before his face reveal. I don't think that meant I wanted to doxx him or I was involved in doxxing.

Unknown_05: All right, here we got the Chud Logic clip. Oh, is it finally loaded?

Unknown_15: Cat box is always slow, so if you want to leave that in the background, I don't blame you.

Unknown_04: I'm trying to see if it will load. It's slow for me, but I don't know why you're having such an issue.

Unknown_15: If I'd known this was a problem, I would have got a different clip, or I've loaded it myself.

1:55:28
Unknown_05: Yeah, maybe you should just try that real quick, just to do that. Give me a minute.

Unknown_15: While I'm doing that, you can get to the final image, which is the lies that we're trying to get in band and shit.

Unknown_04: So here we go.

Unknown_04: um uh looks like i'm gonna have to switch my uh my input or whatever for a sec um i think cat box is down because now it's not running for me either oh is it shit damn here's my photo tell you what um if people want to find this link because i'm not bullshitting destiny's document which i guess we can put a link to uh destiny links to this very same clip so people want it for themselves i'm pretty sure i can leave a link to that

1:56:11
Unknown_05: I'm having trouble opening this Chud Logic image as well. This is so scuffed.

Unknown_05: It keeps opening in Imgur.

Unknown_04: Hold up, guys. Listen to chat. We got to figure it out.

Unknown_16: You having issues with the image?

Unknown_05: Yeah, it won't open in Chrome for some reason. I don't know why.

Unknown_16: Oh, weird. Do you want me to send a screenshot?

Unknown_04: Yeah, sure. That'll be good. Yeah.

1:56:44
Unknown_04: I'll just send that on Discord so I can pull it up.

Unknown_16: Yeah, I think a Discord image will be easier.

Unknown_16: Sorry about all these technical difficulties, guys. This was made in an afternoon.

Unknown_05: Okay, here we go.

Unknown_05: For leftoids hating cops and authority, y'all sure do love to fucking snitch.

Unknown_05: Here we have, you being trans has nothing to do with your absolutely untenable behavior, both in real life when you embezzled funds from your political party and online, which gives a bad reputation to all trans people you claim to represent. And a couple here says, if you stand by your conviction, we will see what Twitch staff thinks of calling a partner trans streamer a subhuman piece of shit.

1:57:19
Unknown_16: That's a misinterpretation if I've ever seen one.

Unknown_05: Yeah, and this has nothing to do with her being trans. Like, he literally says you being trans has nothing to do with your absolutely untenable behavior, which is like the least transphobic thing you can say, right?

Unknown_16: She's trying to claim he's transphobic and trying to get him banned. And keep in mind, this is the same person who earlier in the response said, I don't have power at Twitch. Like, this is crazy. Right.

Unknown_16: The cat box is not loading. I think the site's down, which sucks cock because this was a really good clip. Yeah, there might be a clip of it.

Unknown_05: Kepples calls Chud Logic a pedophile. Let's see if we can find that.

1:57:53
Unknown_05: um yeah we might not be able to find it right now unfortunately um someone has that clip you can uh you can maybe post a link in chat but it's like we're not gonna find it right now um but yeah it's basically a clip where she calls chad logic a pedophile unsubstantiated again like the uh like the previous one with destiny she just goes i've heard it from people like that's her excuse all right well those are four instances guys um i guess we should move on with the reaction then we should just keep watching

Unknown_16: I'm going to keep giving that cab box a reload though when it works, I'll send it through.

1:58:27
Unknown_04: Sounds good. Okay.

Unknown_27: Shouldn't have sex.

Unknown_04: Here we go.

Unknown_16: Okay. I think it's just a good look. It's a good look to go after a website that is purposely transphobic. It's a good look to go after someone that's been cataloging a lot of embarrassing shit.

Unknown_05: And it's a good look to go after a website that also doxes people.

Unknown_16: Yeah. I can't think of an example that doxes up to my head, but I've heard of it.

Unknown_06: So on the surface, I mean, it looks like a pretty noble cause then, right? I mean, going after a website that doxes people and is... I mean, I can totally get why someone without the context would completely go on Keffel's side.

Unknown_16: I mean, it's just such an easy side to join.

Unknown_06: Right.

Unknown_16: You know, we're going after a website that attacks people.

Unknown_27: Wait, what's the context?

1:58:59
Unknown_06: Well, you say on the surface, but what would, I mean, what could there be? What's the context? Like, what would be the contention? Exactly.

Unknown_06: I could literally be Adolf Hitler and Kiwi Farms would still be a bad website.

Unknown_27: The context does not matter. It doesn't change.

Unknown_05: the context always matters and it's like and i think this is where she kind of reveals her intentions it's like any action against kiwi farms is justified so long as it's against kiwi farms um so long as it's in the name of going against kiwi farms and it's like we've already pulled up like eight different times no no one no one got no one got a kiwi farms thread because they were too nice like everyone on there

1:59:34
Unknown_16: Yes, I think the users are prejudiced against LGBT people, but they can't make an article on being trans alone. That's not the only thing they can make a thread about. Right, yeah.

Unknown_27: Change what the site is.

Unknown_16: This is a major hypocrite. Fully willing to dox, fully willing to attack people, being even transphobic.

Unknown_27: I have never doxed anyone before.

Unknown_05: She says she's never doxed anyone, and I believe we have a bunch of evidence of that not being true.

Unknown_05: Yeah, just give me a second to get it all together. Oh shit, Courtney sent me a clip.

Unknown_05: Go to site, yeah. Return.

Unknown_05: Kepler's calls to the logic of pedo, here it is.

2:00:13
Unknown_05: ctv actually i gotta correct chud he's not fucking chud logic on twitter this fucking asshole he's a rational chad right because he tries to be fucking right he tries he tries to be confusing right so rational chad's where you find him anyway i am ctv original underscore ctv on twitter uh twitch.tv and i facilitate infinity.dg

Unknown_24: that was fake all right or infinity acre wood right so the i never rolled with it like because like i don't know if it's actually true i didn't actually look into it i just have a lot of people around me like convinced he's a pedophile but knowing right knowing that i have been pedo jacketed before i don't feel comfortable like 100 saying yes he is in fact a pedophile oh so you have no proof and you just had it from word of mouth why would you air it right

Unknown_16: you like racism pretty sure that guy is like a pedophile pretty sure that guy is like a pedophile and then watches more of the clip and then at the end pedophile and that's okay then excellent good to know good news like imagine if we did this to her the reaction that we would get if we were like yeah i mean isn't she like a isn't kevles like a pedophile and then if one minute later i was like oh kevles killed a man

2:01:19
Unknown_05: That's just, like, what most people are telling me. Yeah, I heard Kevles is a murderer, but that's just, like, what people are telling me. Like, I'm not confident saying that outright, but isn't she, like, a murderer and a pedophile? I had someone in, like, confidence tell me in, like, 1998 she hit two CIA agents with her car, and I was just, like, I was amazed. I was amazed. Like, I don't know if that's true, but, like, didn't she do that, guys? I think she did.

Unknown_23: Excellent.

Unknown_05: Good, good, good.

Unknown_16: So what I've sent you now, you know, Kefels claims she doesn't dox people. This is, there's a picture that's kind of low quality, but there's also a video which kind of just scrolls down through DMs. Kefels tries to dox someone. Now she does fail, but if Kefels claims she doesn't dox, this is an example of her trying to dox.

2:01:51
Unknown_05: right here's someone who says keffels tries to threaten and blackmail me with failed docs uh she hired a private investigator only to end up doxing some random hispanic family from california throughout these messages i gaslight the fuck out of her and she believes what i tell her um let's see here user makes the claim that keffels threatened them with family info and docs he plays along he he when keffels comes with this wrong information he kind of goes yeah so what like trying to make her think she's on the right path Right, right. Here we've got the Odyssey video.

2:02:31
Unknown_05: Can't tell if your dad didn't get didn't beaten you enough or too much.

Unknown_05: Thank you for being my biggest fan. Also, yeah, this user is being transphobic towards scaffolds.

Unknown_16: We're not cool with that. We're more, you know, we're putting importance on the fact she tried dogs. Right.

Unknown_05: Thank you for being my biggest fan. If you ever need someone to talk to, I'm always here for you, friend. I guess she's saying that sarcastically, obviously. Winter says, AO finally gets to talk to the man himself. Can you debate my friend A1 Steak Sauce on the NBA? You could reply any year now. I know you're on all day. Congrats on hitting 800 pages. Referencing Kiwi Farms. We're going to keep playing this. Let's see what else she says.

2:03:06
Unknown_04: um by the way that picture of her crying comes from when uh the first time she responded to the porn allegations gotcha okay you lost the m privileges by a logging too hard you need to learn to behave better i'm just you went you went past it but there's a bit where she gives like a name and skin color oh did i hold up where is that but you may remember hold on i have to rewatch this clip myself yeah i don't think it's i don't think it's here

2:03:38
Unknown_05: Yeah, so Keppel sends a picture of some random Hispanic family and says, your mom is cute.

Unknown_05: Winter says, are you serious? Are you trolling? Cracker IQ, your God complex, says you're making some dumb decisions. So here she is implying that she's like doxing him, right, with a picture of this Hispanic family who she presumes is Winter.

Unknown_05: She says, okay, Andrew. Obviously thinking that that's Winter's name.

Unknown_05: She says, I have your face and name. I know what schools you went to. I know every member of your family.

Unknown_05: And let's just contrast this with what she just said in this video.

2:04:15
Unknown_05: What, against the hashtag drop Kiwi Farms? Exactly.

Unknown_16: I could literally be Adolf Hitler and Kiwi Farms would still be a bad website.

Unknown_27: This is a major hypocrite.

Unknown_16: Fully willing to dox, fully willing to attack people.

Unknown_05: Being even transphobic.

Unknown_27: I have never doxed anyone before.

Unknown_05: I've never doxxed anyone before, she says. I just want to read this out. I have your face and name.

Unknown_01: I know what schools you went to.

Unknown_05: I know every member of your family. Excited to see how they all react when your information gets sent to them. Glad you confirmed your identity. Thank you. You are laughing now, just like Josh did. We see how that went. You have the choice. Your life is now on a diverging path. You can walk away or you can see what comes next. Is that a threat? No, it's a promise. Didn't you learn your lesson after getting sent to military school? Clearly she thinks she's referencing his past right now. He says this is a failed ox later on.

2:04:47
Unknown_05: Doesn't seem like it. Seems like you're shitting your life away. You are powerless in the real world. And the only thing that makes you feel you're in control is a pseudonym you invented to harass people on an internet forum. Why not work on yourself and become a better person?

Unknown_05: Tell me about your life, Andrew. Yeah, so there's just a bunch of this fucking shit.

2:05:22
Unknown_16: What I was going to say, Tom, I've just sent you an imager link. I want you to look at the second image, because I know Kevils has somewhat responded to this and saying it's not her. This is Bob posting, a friend of Kevils for a long time, like before the Kiwi Farms drama, they've been friends. This is Bob posting, confirming to Destiny the dog's is real, saying Kevils got some info wrong, but overall she was on the money. So if you want to question this, Kevils, like closest collaborator during most of this, confirms the dog's is real.

Unknown_05: And here we have, are you including anything about the alleged leaked conversation between Keffals and the Kiwi Farms user Winter? I have some info I could disclose about that. Destiny says, I have no idea yet, lol. I barely started anything I've been busy since I got back catching up on emails and shit in the background. What other info is there? I see Lowell. All I'll say is that it was not a fail docs. Kevlin's got a couple things wrong, but it was basically 95% accurate info. His name wasn't Blank. It was Blank, and he wasn't Blank. He lived in another town like 15 minutes from Blank. I was kind of wondering if he was just playing it off in the hopes people would think it was fake. She didn't use Sanchez as a slur. His last name is literally Blank Sanchez Lowell. He absolutely was, and the only things he pushed back on the conversation was the false info. It's just my nickname. Blank is my IP, idiot, etc.,

2:06:27
Unknown_05: So, I mean, there's an example of someone who is Keppel's longtime friend saying that she doxed this person. Keppel's saying that she doxed this person. And then, obviously, in the response to us, Keppel says she's never doxed anyone. But, I mean, it's just, I mean, it's so evident here that she did try to, you know, she at least tried to dox them. Okay, we know that.

Unknown_16: No, I pressed the wrong one. Give me a second, Tom.

Unknown_05: Okay. According to their close friend, you know.

Unknown_05: This is Kefls threatening to dox anyone with a Kiwifarms account. Right, here we go. If you have an active Kiwifarms account, I will not only post your name publicly, but I will find out your employer and forward them your post history. I have no tolerance for hate, and users of the site should feel more scared to get as bold as they do. This is a hate group.

2:07:01
Unknown_05: I've also sent you her doxing Noel's mother.

Unknown_16: Now, Kefls says this doesn't count as a dox because this information is public. And while that is technically true, there's two things to go on that. First of all, a lot of her info was public. So was she not doxxed? I don't think she'd say that. And second of all, she like projected this tiny thing to a massive fan base and tried to get Noel's mom in more trouble.

2:07:32
Unknown_05: As far as I know, Noel and his mom don't even talk. I think they're not on good terms. I literally don't know.

Unknown_16: You'd have to ask him.

Unknown_05: That's some lull I'm somewhat aware of. If you have an active Kiwi Farms account, I will not only post your name publicly, but I will find your employer. This is a hate group. And once again, Kiwi Farms, whatever you want to say about them, I would not say that Kiwi Farms as a whole is a hate group. I would say there are lots of hateful people there because they're banned from everywhere else, just like there's a lot of hateful people on Gab or Parler. But I would not say that any of these sites are explicit hate groups. Kiwi Farms is a gossip site.

Unknown_05: And even saying something like this, like, why would you even claim that you don't want to dox people in the response to us? I assume maybe your audience just doesn't know. And then even here, like, you have, like, this person's DMs, right, Winter's DMs, where you say you dox them and, like, try to threaten them. You have these DMs where your close friend, Bob Posting, talks about the fact that, you know, you successfully doxed them. We have this post right here where you say you don't want to dox people. Do you want to open the null one or not? No, I'll open the null one, yeah. Fine. And then we have this one as well. Joshua Moon's mother was fired from her job in 2018 for having an account of her son's hate forum, Kiwi Farms. And you post a picture of his mom. You post a picture of him with his mom. I mean, you post all this shit. You post a picture of her account. I mean, you can say this isn't a dox, but I assure you, if I posted your full name and some previously private photos of you that you didn't want leaked, that had been leaked for a while, if I posted those, You would be like, oh, you doxxed me, right? You totally would say that, Keffles.

2:08:45
Unknown_05: So, I mean, yeah.

Unknown_16: Keffles does doxx people, and Keffles doesn't have an issue of using the tactics she complains about against them. And if she wants to go and say, well, I'm only doxxing Kiwi Farms users, that's fine. But she can't claim that she doesn't doxx people. No matter what, we've got her on that one, I feel. Right. Four. I've never done that either. I think you made a claim saying that she's okay with not using someone's proper pronouns with someone who doesn't support her. Did that happen? I didn't make that claim. You didn't? No.

2:09:18
Unknown_05: I've never done that either. It doesn't change what the site is.

2:09:50
Unknown_16: Are you thinking of the Stardust and there's another person that she was shouting at? This is a major hypocrite. Fully willing to dox, fully willing to attack people. Being even transphobic.

Unknown_05: I have never doxed anyone. You said being transphobic.

Unknown_16: Naming and using improper pronouns for other trans people.

Unknown_05: You said dead naming and using improper pronouns for other trans people.

Unknown_16: Fuck, I don't know what I'm referring to there. I might have to go.

Unknown_05: I might have to go. I've never done that either. Proof of that.

Unknown_05: I feel like that is something I remember, but I mean, at the time, if I can't substantiate it.

Unknown_16: I do remember it being a story, but I literally, when I was doing my research for this, I didn't find it. So I don't know what I'm referencing there. I might be wrong on that one. Yeah. Unless someone can prove me right. But I don't remember off the top of my head. Yeah. Dogs and attacks. But Kefals kept tweeting out her location, kept tweeting out information about her.

2:10:26
Unknown_05: Oh, Hunter Avalon.

Unknown_16: You know, these attacks supposedly. What happened with Hunter Avalon?

Unknown_16: Apparently it was Hunter Avalon, but I don't know.

Unknown_05: Hunter is a straight male, though, so I assume it's not that.

Unknown_16: Yeah, no.

Unknown_27: This rhetoric, I hear this rhetoric a lot, and it's really eerily similar to the kind of rhetoric where it's like, well, you know, why did you wear such a skimpy dress if you didn't want to get raped? It really seems like maybe that's what you actually wanted because you were doing nothing to make yourself less rapable.

2:10:58
Unknown_27: That's the exact kind of rhetoric that's getting used about this.

Unknown_05: It's not at all. And this is a totally retarded thing because, first of all, being raped, let's say that the prerequisite for rape is wearing a skimpy outfit. People wear skimpy outfits every day, and you could argue that that's an essential part of just functioning.

Unknown_05: You're not asking for it. But with you in particular, Kepples, you fleed your country of origin, which is Canada, to go to Ireland, to go to other places in Europe. And the claim for that was that you needed to flee because... You were being attacked, you were being swatted, you were being doxxed, you were being harassed, and you needed to leave. So you go to Ireland, and when you're in Ireland, you decide to willingly post your exact location and where you are at. Yes, I would say that is asking to be doxxed, and I think it also helped you.

2:11:38
Unknown_05: I don't know why she tried to make a comparison anyway.

Unknown_16: You can't really compare it.

Unknown_05: It's a very unique situation. Well, the reason why is because it sounds good to say that we're, like, you know, to say that we would support the same argument. Tom and I haven't mentioned rape, and I don't think either of us believe in the whole, like, she was asking for an excuse. This is just trying to, like, associate us with rape so that in the mind it sounds like we're bad. I don't know why she said this. It's like, in the mind of a rapist, I don't think a rapist would be encouraged or stopped from, you know, a woman, from raping a woman, depending on what outfit she was wearing. But it's undeniable that if you don't want to be doxxed, if you don't want to be swatted, if you don't want to be fucked with, then there's no good reason you should be posting your own location openly. That is retarded.

2:12:11
Unknown_05: Right. And the whole point of going to Ireland was to escape the harassment and doxing. And then in order to supposedly escape it, you decided to post your own location. I mean, what can we even say apart from that? You know what I mean? I posted her own location twice, by the way.

Unknown_16: She posted a picture of like a hotel room. People doxed her from that. And I guess she didn't learn her lesson and then posted another hotel room. I don't know what the thought process was there.

2:12:51
Unknown_05: Well, the thought process, you know, I can speculate a little bit, was probably that if she gets doxxed, if she gets swatted. I won't make a comment, but I think I know what you're talking about. I mean, I'll make the comment straight up. Like, why would you post that? If I didn't want to be swatted, if I was being harassed, right, and I didn't want to be swatted, I wouldn't take a picture of anywhere. I wouldn't fucking show anything.

Unknown_05: You know?

Unknown_27: Because I'm afraid of getting swatted. I can't say, oh, yeah, I went to see this play. Or I am currently in Ireland, you know, the country with millions of people in it.

Unknown_05: She went from Canada, a massive country, to Ireland, a smaller country. And not even just said that she was in Ireland, she posted where she was in Ireland.

2:13:24
Unknown_05: Like, it's just, it's a complete non-sequitur, dude.

Unknown_16: You know another website that was probably a bit more... Right.

Unknown_05: There's a specific website that's known for fucking with people's livelihoods.

Unknown_06: They're known for, like, getting people's SSNs and trying to ruin their life, basically. If you mention them, I think it's... I think you're not supposed to mention them because... You can't say their name.

Unknown_16: I don't want to say their name. I don't want to get involved. Oh, yeah, they probably don't know who I am, but even then, it's not worth it.

Unknown_06: No, we don't want their attention, but it's not KiwiFarms. It's a much more malicious website. One of the actual... This is the website that was mentioned in the DMs between... The one that Keffels does know about.

Unknown_05: Yeah, her and Destiny. And this is the one we were talking about was the one that was actually doxing her.

2:13:59
Unknown_05: Going out of their way to really fuck with her. But this is a website she doesn't want to talk about at all. And when a journalist, Jesse Signal, brought it up to her, she was like, well, you can't talk about that website because they have my docs on it. And it's like, but your doc is also on Kiwi Farms and you're okay with everyone talking about that. So that's just another point against her. It's just weird. I don't get it.

Unknown_16: And the written rules of Kiwi Farms is don't touch the poo.

Unknown_06: And basically what that means is that you don't get involved with the people you document. Obviously, that's going to happen anyway on some scale because that's just the nature of stuff, right? Not everyone listens to the rule. People from Kiwi Farms harass people. You can't deny that. But this other website is, like, they don't adhere to that rule at all. No one adheres to it. The whole point of the website is to fuck with people, right?

Unknown_15: Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

2:14:30
Unknown_06: Okay. So you said a lot of critical things about Keppel's.

Unknown_06: Oh, no. You said a lot. Let's start with Drop Kiwi Farms. So she goes after Kiwi Farms. She gets attention on Twitter. She gets journalists retweeting her. Why do we get to that point? How does it get so big?

Unknown_16: So Kevils employed a friend cool Liz Fong Jones is also trans. Mm-hmm. She's pretty tech literate She has a few connections and really what hashtag drop Kiwi Farms was was hashtag, you know Boycott cloud that get cloud fan trouble raises not trouble because I did not employ anyone for them on tips again You went to your friend's phone Jones and asked to help I would I would cool that we don't wish he hired them when we say employee we mean like deploy like use like a

2:15:07
Unknown_05: Yeah, no, I mean, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not, this is a generalization, but even then it's like, it's still the same.

Unknown_16: It's still true that Liz Fong Jones came to help. Service I want to describe it as, and they host Kiwi Farms. It doesn't mean they're associated or support them. It just means no paid for the server to be, you know, ran on that.

Unknown_06: As far as I know, as I know, they do DDoS protection and DDoS protection is an essential service for any website, right?

Unknown_16: Whenever sites go down, if you've noticed, there's like, we're using an archived version. That's Cloudflare. That's what Cloudflare does as well. They're pretty good at just trying to keep a site up as best as possible.

Unknown_06: So the owner is actually pretty apolitical.

Unknown_16: He's very much like a freedom of speech. I don't mean this in a left-wing or right-wing way. He's just a very open guy. He wants to just see as clear an internet as possible.

Unknown_06: So this DropQB farms thing didn't really have much of an impact.

Unknown_16: It was massive. It was trending. So many people were behind it. But at first, they didn't even respond to it. It took like a month for anything to happen, really.

2:15:43
Unknown_06: Right. So Cloudflare is brought up. That's a big name.

Unknown_06: Where do we go from here? I mean, you said a lot of critical things about Kevils. At this point, she's getting a lot of support. When did the, let's say, glaring inconsistency start shining through in your eyes?

Unknown_16: Probably when Kevils tried to bring up that Kiwi Farms killed three trans people.

Unknown_06: I think everyone's heard these arguments in some form or fashion.

Unknown_16: So the idea here being that Kiwi Farms... Yeah, yeah. So I made a mistake here. Kiwifarms did not kill three trans people, and no one claimed three trans people were killed by Kiwifarms. Kiwifarms got three people killed, one who was trans, one who was cisgender, and one who was non-binary. And during this entire segment, despite having used their deaths to campaign against Kiwifarms, Keffel's doesn't call me out and after all the semantics and technicalities she called me out on I don't know why she didn't bring this up unless she agrees or this helps her narrative and this gets a bit more trickier later when I mention the other two beyond the one trans person I don't know if Keffel's doesn't have the details or if she just doesn't care enough but after all the semantics this detail she doesn't like catch me out on at all

2:16:20
Unknown_27: I was not the first person to make these arguments. These arguments have been made for years, literally years. It's not a glaring inconsistency. I don't think we said she was the first person to talk about this.

2:16:55
Unknown_16: No, I just said that that's what she used. She used three dead people.

Unknown_06: Yeah.

Unknown_06: I don't want to mention it because two of them trying to describe them would probably go against TOS.

Unknown_16: It's a lot about oppression, bullying, suicide, faking suicide, a lot of that. We can talk about it a little bit. We just can't talk about it.

Unknown_27: Okay, they're obviously, this is a kiwi farmer. They're doing the near didn't kill themselves thing.

Unknown_27: Just fucking insane. Like the lengths that people go to defend a stalking website.

Unknown_16: The major one was that there was an actual suicide of a trans girl, and she had a suicide note. So Keffel's like, we will- What was her name? Oh god, now I have to read out the thread, give me a second. Was this one Chloe Seagal? Yes, I believe it was Chloe. Chloe had a suicide note, and Keffel said, yeah, I mean, you were bullied horrendously on Kiwi Farms, you had one of the biggest threads, and you killed yourself.

2:17:30
Unknown_00: Transgender.

Unknown_16: And immediately the Kiwi Farmers grabbed her suicide note, because there's a public image, and they pointed out that in the note, Careful, Kiwi Farms is specifically mentioned and they say it was not Kiwi Farms' fault at all.

Unknown_05: So were they not mentioned in the note?

Unknown_06: No, they were mentioned in the note, but they were mentioned as being clean.

Unknown_16: She basically said, no, it's not Kiwi Farms' fault, I killed myself.

Unknown_06: So this is what the person who killed themselves is saying. A person who had a thread on the site. Really bad one from what I understand.

2:18:02
Unknown_05: What are they going on about? Why does she have no response to this? She says, what are they going on about?

Unknown_16: It's accurate that Kiwi Farms was not named and did not kill this person. So all Kevils can say is, what, what, what, what, what?

Unknown_05: Yeah.

Unknown_16: What in the fuck are they going on about?

Unknown_05: We're going on about an accusation that you made about Kiwi Farms, which is that they successfully bullied multiple trans people into committing suicide. And with this trans person, I believe this one is Chloe Seagal.

2:18:36
Unknown_16: Bucksagool was a transgender person who had lived most of their life homeless and had a really sad life, and they set themselves on fire as like a protest. After leaving the hospital, by the way, they, on crutches from the hospital, set themselves on fire on a political suicide so that she could bring attention to homelessness. And while she did have a Kiwi Farms article, she didn't mention them and she didn't blame them. But Keffel's completely twisted this into... She got bullied so badly on Kiwi Farms she killed herself and blamed them in the note. And that's why Kevil's here. It's like, what are they talking about? Because I think she knows that we're right here, or at least I'm right that it wasn't Kiwi Farms that killed Chloe.

Unknown_05: Yeah. One of the chatters here says, let me pull up her thread. Bro, you use KF. I just don't see how, like, using, like, going on a website...

2:19:16
Unknown_16: I used Kiwi Farms. I used Destiny's Teams evidence. I've used the document. I've used Twitter.

Unknown_05: I mean, the thing about Kiwi Farms is, like, Kiwi Farms, like, if you just take, like, one specific message that, like, one Kiwi Farms user says where they make a claim and use that for evidence, that's bad, obviously, in the same way that using a tweet or using, like, one statement from Wikipedia is bad. But if you use Kiwi Farms as a guide to find references off the site which have evidence for, like, actual claims, then that's another thing, you know what I mean? It's not like Kiwi Farms is a site where if you go on, like... The only the only kind of Web site I can imagine that would like completely discredit you is if you go on a Web site that like hosts a bunch of child porn. Right. In that case, it would be like, OK, well, you're clearly a terrible person. So why should we listen to you? But Kiwi Farms is like, well, there are there are bad things about it.

2:19:48
Unknown_05: But they're also like there's also a bunch of useful information on it. So like why wouldn't we use that as a resource, you know?

Unknown_05: evil person, they just had a really mean spirited thread about them.

Unknown_06: No, I have to go find it. I believe they killed themselves in a brutal way. I think they lit themselves on fire, right?

Unknown_16: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was... It's not good.

2:20:20
Unknown_06: And that's why I think it's the major point where this... A, Kevlar's got major support, but B, where this got really shifty because that's a real big denial of facts. She got major support because she was saying this website's responsible for people killing themselves. For death. And she accused Kiwi Farms fully of killing themselves. And any person of the right mind who hears that a website and its users caused someone to die would be like, well, we need to take down this. I don't know why she's not responding to this.

Unknown_05: Because there's no response.

Unknown_16: And if people want more detail, Destiny's three and a half hour stream, he goes fully into Keffel's past, brings up partners who talked about her. Like there is so much proof that it's not Kiwi Farms and Kiwi Farms aren't the main reason why. I don't think you can argue this successfully. Yeah.

2:20:54
Unknown_05: Someone in chat says, Kevles wants on. She was in chat earlier. I double-checked. It's her. Yeah, she can come on. I mean, we've got to watch the video first, but I'm willing to have her on after. Are you okay with that? I don't mind, yeah. Yeah, we're going to react to the video, but if she wants to come on after we react, that's totally fair. We just want to get through these points because I would hate for her to come on and then derail the entire thing. No, I've prepared for most of the points in this video. I think we should get them out first. I mean, whether or not she intends on derailing it, I'm not saying she necessarily will. But it's going to get derailed because it's going to turn into a debate where we can't get through the video. And I want to get through the video.

2:21:29
Unknown_16: Yeah, I agree. If it really was that plain and simple, I would probably be on that side.

Unknown_05: But it doesn't seem that simple. It's not that simple.

Unknown_16: It's really disingenuous. And it's using dead people. It's using suicide. Careful to have the context. Careful to know it wasn't really kiwi farm's fault yes it was it helped the narrative and it helped it helped keffels it helped keffels hide this embarrassing she says yes it was but once again we like we specifically referenced the suicide note where she said we had chloe had a thread but uh it wasn't even that bad it wasn't even that long and it wasn't chloe herself as i believe like like as you said unless you lied about the suicide note like no no no i i i have it i have it on the thread and everything the suicide note does not blame kiwi farms yeah embarrassing past I don't have an embarrassing past there's nothing embarrassing about doing porn well okay I would argue that to a lot of people it's probably embarrassing to do like you know fart porn or whatever but that's whatever but it's probably embarrassing to like run an account where you you know are unknowingly even right like flirting with a 16 year old femboy or whatever that's probably bad right that's probably embarrassing you know yeah

2:22:14
Unknown_27: it was fine i don't care i absolutely do not give a single shit yeah i did porn so what once again you say yeah you did porn so what but you called it revenge porn not even that long ago and we already showed the citation for that but yeah i was always mad about the doxing i was very clear about this why don't you go after uh the other website that doxed you then why don't you go after them it's like i get shit on on a daily basis i don't care

2:23:16
Unknown_06: So, well, I guess where do we go from there? So we know this one, or let's say at least you're saying this one suicide is not as she made it out to be. There were others as well, yeah? There were three.

Unknown_16: Yeah, there were two others. The other one is, you might have heard this story though, the alias was Blue. They worked on emulation for old Nintendo consoles.

Unknown_06: Yes.

Unknown_16: And they, there's a big claim with a lot of evidence that they faked their death. They lived in Japan.

Unknown_06: They were someone with a Kiwi Farms thread, just to reiterate. They had a Kiwi Farms thread because they worked on this emulator, which got them attention.

Unknown_16: So when they got all this fame, they kept saying dumb statements. And like I said, Kiwi Farms has a bit of transphobia. It was kind of clowning on her simply for being trans. Yeah, no.

2:23:49
Unknown_27: It's so weird because it's like people are saying prove that they killed themselves, but it should be prove that they didn't kill themselves.

Unknown_27: There's already proof that they killed themselves.

Unknown_05: Is there proof, though? I mean, I would imagine the reason why there's a bunch of doubt about it is because there's no proof.

Unknown_16: Additionally, Kevils originally with the Drunk Kiwi Farms campaign claimed that it was this awful thread that made Bew suicidal and kill themself. But Bew's thread was 13 pages long. And if you know anything about Kiwi Farms, that's a small page. And what's even funnier, well not funnier, that's an awful word choice. What's even more like helpful for us is that Bew responded saying, this is a great wake up call. I agree with every point in this thread. I'm working on self-improvement. So it's again, I don't think Kiwi Farms killed Bew. Again, I can find more evidence if Kevles really wants that Bew didn't kill himself, but more so it wasn't Kiwi Farms that did it, even if it did happen.

2:24:26
Unknown_27: there's um there's testimony from friends uh there was the person who saw like the urn like there's absolutely no evidence that near fake their suicide and even if they did what you're essentially saying is that kiwi farms is so terrifying people are willing to leave their entire life and identity and all of their friends behind in the past in order to escape them and that's even fucking worse than killing

2:25:16
Unknown_05: Okay, but there's so many people with threads that somehow have not had to kill themselves, right? There's so many people with Kiwi Farms threads with their full docs. I mean, Destiny's someone with a Kiwi Farms thread. There's so many people with threads that have not felt the need to resort to ending their own lives because of this website. Used thread wasn't that bad.

Unknown_16: The only sign that you didn't like it is right before their death or before their supposed death, they sent Null a message saying, I will pay you my whole life savings of $120,000.

Unknown_16: Or I will work for you as a full-time engineer. Because if you don't accept these two options, I will blame you for my suicide. Like basically saying I will weaponize my suicide against you. I don't know if Noel just didn't respond or if he was sleeping. But by the time he saw it, basically Buu had already supposedly killed himself. So Buu was already using that suicide as like a bargaining chip.

2:25:54
Unknown_05: All right. I'm going to put a hoodie on because I'm a little chilly, but I'll be back in a sec.

2:26:45
Unknown_04: Okay, I'm back. Sorry about that. Just feeling a little cold, guys.

Unknown_04: I have a space eater in this room, but I don't like to turn it on because it's kind of loud, so I'm suffering for the content right now.

Unknown_05: All right, Bernie, are you nice and toasty? Are you ready to get back to it?

Unknown_05: Did you fuck off? Yeah, no, I'm good. Smaggle just messaged me, and apparently Caffles is on stream claiming that we're hiding from the conversation, but we already just said we want to finish the video first, and then we'll do it. Yeah, I'm totally willing to talk to her, like I said. I mean, we were willing to before. If you just give us, like, how long is this?

2:27:18
Unknown_16: Apparently she can't wait till the stream is done.

Unknown_05: Well, she's going to have to wait till we finish the video.

Unknown_16: We don't know that they died. Is that fair to say?

Unknown_16: We don't, no.

Unknown_06: Okay. Oh, come on. But they're a trans individual, yes?

Unknown_16: They were trans. All these three people were trans people who had Kiwi Farms articles that Keffel's claimed they killed themselves because of Kiwi Farms.

2:27:51
Unknown_06: And Keffel's was promoting these stories and getting, like, attention from journalists. Not really, just using their names. I mean, again, if you promoted the stories, it'd be proven wrong, so it was more just using their names. Well, she was using their, okay, she was using their names and the idea that three trans people killed themselves because of Kiwi Farms to promote the story. Yeah, which sounds brilliant if you're trying to push aside that we are fighting the killers. And she did get a lot of attention. I mean, she got, like, a ton of mainstream publications to report. This sent the hashtag flying, and this is when there was a mass DDoS, because, again, I don't think I'm wrong in claiming this, because they admit to themselves.

Unknown_16: Oh, yeah, no, TurkeyTom has, like, 500,000 YouTube followers, and he put out this video on his second channel.

Unknown_27: And it's just... It's goofy. It's really goofy. It's really... Goofy gang?

2:28:24
Unknown_05: Can I get Goofy W in chat, guys? Goofy gang! Goofy W in chat?

Unknown_05: Yo, guys.

Unknown_05: Goofy in chat?

Unknown_05: Yo. Hold up. Goofy. This reminds me of something I want to watch right now. Then we'll get back to the video.

Unknown_15: Is it the trial?

Unknown_05: Yes, dude. It's Goofy's trial.

Unknown_15: Classic.

Unknown_07: Will the suspect please take the stand? Oh, wait. I want to watch that. There's an animated one. Here we go.

2:28:58
Unknown_07: Will the suspect please take the stand?

Unknown_07: Mr. Goofy, is it?

Unknown_07: Mr. Goofy, you are here today being charged with mass homicide. And your lawyer is here, present, am I correct? Yes, I'm his lawyer, Joe Rosenberg. I'll be representing Goofy today in court. Now from what I see here, there is strong evidence supporting the mass shooting. It looks like here you were caught in broad daylight on CCTV holding an AR7. So you're admitting that the man in this footage is you, correct? So you do admit that this very same footage right here from the very same CCTV of you massacring a public elementary school is you as well? Is that a yes?

2:29:38
Unknown_07: Can I get a yes, Mr. Goofy? I object. My client has done nothing wrong. He killed 27 children and crippled five.

Unknown_05: He's clinically insane, your honor. He's crazy.

Unknown_07: Mr. Goofy, this is not a laugh.

Unknown_05: We don't need to watch the whole thing. You guys get the idea. We got the gist. Goofy gang.

Unknown_04: All right, let's keep watching this.

Unknown_27: Really disingenuous. It's really, oh, I don't want to say either way, but when you can just say what you think, you're trying to present it as like a both sides thing because you know that your opinions on this are pretty objectionable.

2:30:11
Unknown_16: I said either way because either I have to agree that Bew killed themself and there's evidence they didn't, or I have to say that Bew faked their death when there's not 100% proof, there's just a lot of proof.

Unknown_05: In either situation, it's shit. I'm not particularly invested in if this person killed themselves or not. I'm invested in the Keppel story. I'm invested in uncovering it. My main contention with Keppel in general is just that she likes to de-platform people, but apart from that like there's nothing there's no opinion that i'm like hiding or something in this video like i've been very upfront with it um and if anything i would probably get rewarded if i was more negative towards her and and uh you know was more mean because as we see there's like a large group of people that hate her and want me to just on her you know even unfairly that you know they would enjoy that because of the amount of like you know spite that she gets on the internet and the amount of spite she's directed towards other people Um, you know, whether or not the people's feelings are justified or not, I'll leave up to, to the audience. But, um, you know, like I, I would only probably benefit from being more negative towards her. And if anything, I'm doing her a favor by being as charitable as I have been, um, you know, We're not really talking about the Catboy Rant stuff, we're not really talking about the DIY Hormone stuff.

2:31:05
Unknown_05: You know, that only stands to benefit her.

Unknown_05: Yeah. Liz Wong-Jones. She admits she has a botnet.

Unknown_16: She admits she has a botnet that can DDoS attack and harass these sites. So as Kibifarm is taking a battering, Cloudflare is having people outside their offices. So this has been going on for like two months.

Unknown_06: What? Yeah, they have people outside their offices.

Unknown_27: No, they don't. That never happened.

Unknown_05: We never protested in front of the Cloudflare offices. We never protested in front of the Cloudflare offices. Now, do we have a link for this? Did this happen?

2:31:41
Unknown_16: Tom, here's a tweet where Keffels organizes a protest outside a Kiwi Farms office.

Unknown_05: Statement from the Drop Kiwi Farms campaign and our intent to protest at the Cloudflare Connect conference in Sydney, Australia. Please share widely.

Unknown_05: And this is a letter literally encouraging people to go to their fucking physical offices and protest. In Australia, in Sydney, Australia, Cloudflare Connect conference.

Unknown_16: Next up is Liz Fong Jones posting that they'll be there and helping hosting it.

2:32:16
Unknown_05: Right. All right. Let's see.

Unknown_05: I'm leading a protest in front of Cloudflare Connect Summit on September 8th in Sydney in order to draw attention to the harms that Cloudflare perpetuates on marginalized communities and force eSafety Australia and Cloudflare to act. Please join me. And this is literally calling people to be there in person.

Unknown_16: And then Null posted pictures of it. Now, to be fair, to Kefals, there was like, I think, five people in total that went to this. But it was still an attempt, and you organized a protest outside a Cloudflare building.

2:32:50
Unknown_05: I mean, here's the Cloudflare Sydney protest that Lis Wong Jones organized. Bonus pic of LFJ virgin walking. I assume they're referring to Lis Wong Jones. This is Null's post on whatever this is, Fediverse, I assume. This is what they were afraid of. The technocrats have literally no balls. This entire system could collapse to a strong breeze. And I mean, there were people there physically. I mean, in fairness, I thought there were more definitely, but there were definitely people there. Keffel's wasn't there in person, but we never claimed that she was there in person.

Unknown_16: I fucked up because I thought there were more people than there were at these protests, and I make it sound bigger than it was, but Keffel's told me, Keffel's said right there, no, they didn't. Yes, they did.

2:33:25
Unknown_05: Right. She called for it. Liz Wong-Jones called for it. There were people there, including Liz Wong-Jones.

Unknown_27: There's no botnet.

Unknown_05: She says there's no botnet. Do we know if there's a botnet or not? I assume that's not something... Yeah, I'll have to go find the images, but yes. Okay.

Unknown_06: There's people saying boycott Cloudflare and drop kibifarms. Yeah, yeah, it's big.

Unknown_16: I can't describe it because I can't remember the stats and I don't have a lot of screenshots.

Unknown_06: But it was hundreds of thousands of people. It was the biggest thing on Twitter at the time.

Unknown_16: Think of your big YouTubers who just do videos on the news of the now. Even they're making videos. It's reaching people that didn't know Keffals, didn't know kibifarms.

2:33:56
Unknown_06: But simultaneously, this narrative seems to be sort of, you know, easy to pick apart, yeah?

Unknown_16: It's very easy to pick apart if you do your research and if you bother to check Kiwi Farms, which is currently being DDoSed and people are telling you if you go on there, you'll become evil and right-wing and a Nazi and blah, blah, blah.

Unknown_06: Okay, so it's a bad look to go on. For an average viewer, it seems so cut and dry. Right, but in reality, it's just kind of... It's shaky. It's shaky. We don't know. We just don't know.

Unknown_16: Yeah. Again, I don't want to claim too much because it's crazy how I don't know.

Unknown_27: It's so crazy how they go to their way to defend the site. But then here's what you need to know. The real reason why they're defending it. Commentary channels like Turkey Tom rely on Kiwi Farms for sourcing for their videos. There's a non-zero chance that Turkey Tom has made tens of thousands of dollars because of the existence of Kiwi Farms. Kiwi Farms is part of his bread and butter. That's why he defends it.

2:34:28
Unknown_05: Here's something I can respond to directly. Obviously, Bertie, you're not really included in that accusation.

Unknown_05: I've openly referenced Kiwi Farms when I use it for research, but if you go to my videos, and we can scroll through and see the videos that actually reference Kiwi Farms,

Unknown_05: This one doesn't, this one doesn't, this one doesn't, this one doesn't. I think the 4chan femboy blackmail one might, but that's mostly related to 4chan, not QBFarms. This one doesn't reference it. This one definitely does. This is one video that definitely does. This video has nothing to do with QBFarms, nothing to do with QBFarms, nothing to do with QBFarms, nothing to do with QBFarms, nothing to do with QBFarms. So let's just count. Out of my last 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 videos,

2:35:04
Unknown_05: I can very charitably, and even going the extra mile, say that there are two videos that reference Kiwi Farms. And if we go back here, this is not about Kiwi Farms. This is not about Kiwi Farms. This one is about Kiwi Farms. But even at that, it's like, okay, this one's not about Kiwi Farms. There's three videos in the last... 16 that have anything to do with Kiwi Farms.

Unknown_05: Even when Kiwi Farms was down, I was posting regularly. I was totally able to function as a channel. I was totally able to make videos. I was totally able to do research. I don't rely on Kiwi Farms. They're a decent resource, undoubtedly. They're a decent resource.

2:35:42
Unknown_05: Especially when you're researching animal abusers and stuff like that. But it's not like every video has to do with kiwifarms. Even out of these eight videos, this is the only video that has anything to do with kiwifarms. I don't need kiwifarms for video research. Um, and that's also not why I want to defend it. Cause if Kiwi farmers went down, another site would pop up to document drama and stuff like that. You know what I mean? I don't, I don't need Kiwi farms to function. Um, you know, you could, you could say that one out of 13 videos or, you know, we'll, I'll just say two out of 13 videos relies on it, but it's like, that's less than fucking 10% of my income. So it doesn't really matter.

2:36:17
Unknown_05: So yeah, I'll be just fine without Kiwi Farms. Believe it or not, I actually have a more principled position apart from money. My entire life is not run on money.

Unknown_05: I have a point to make. I have beliefs that don't relate to my income. Obviously, with anything I do, I want to maximize the amount of income I can make.

2:36:50
Unknown_05: So if I make a video and it references Kiwi Farms, I want to make money on it. but like, this is not like, like, like keeping farmers is not the end all be all of my research. They were down for months. Um, and it was like a fucking pain to use their site. And I got by just fine. Let's keep watching.

Unknown_16: All three of those people genuinely committed suicide. I don't know either way if two of them faked their deaths. Okay. You know, it's a really touchy area. I mean, key farms do their best to prove as many things as possible. In the day, they just don't have proof for everything.

Unknown_06: So we went over Chloe Seagal. We went over Blue. There's someone else, right?

2:37:25
Unknown_16: There's someone else. I don't know if I should mention it. It's also a bit dark and a bit bland comparatively. There's also screenshots of long messages about depression. We can... Well, we don't have to read those. We can talk about what happened.

Unknown_06: I don't really touch on it on this vote. Yeah, let me go.

Unknown_16: And Kevill doesn't really respond to it. But the person I'm referencing is Judy Terryford, who was, I believe, the straightest person in this situation. Terry, right. Terry, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And she had an awful life as well of drugs, like an awful family of like an uncle that masturbated in front of her and things of that nature.

Unknown_15: She did drugs.

Unknown_16: She got on like a BDSM sex stuff before she was 18.

2:37:57
Unknown_16: She lived a really sad life and at 19 killed herself.

Unknown_16: Yes, there was a Kiwi Farms thread. Yes, she didn't like it, but she made fun of it. She was like, oh, this is such a terrible resource and there's so many mistakes here. And when she did kill herself, I don't know if Kiwi Farms had played an effect on that, but you cannot at all claim Kiwi Farms was the reason she killed herself. Her life was sad, it was depressing, and there were way bigger reasons in her life than a thread making fun of her. I don't touch it in this video, but that's what I'm referencing when I say there's a third person. I didn't want to touch it because I couldn't fully remember. And it's just so sad, man. Her life is really sad. I don't recommend anyone check it out unless they really want proof. It's a sad, sad story.

2:38:30
Unknown_16: Go find the thread. I can't remember off the top of my head. This is the one that had the least interest, I guess you could say. Okay. Again, so at this point, while I'm finding this, I've mentioned that, yeah, so they had, Cloudflare had people outside their offices with big cardboard papers saying, come out, come out. Right. So the president, or president CEO, what am I saying, president CEO, of Cloudflare makes a big statement, talking about freedom of expression, freedom of speech. I also do make a mistake here. It wasn't the company that eventually dropped KiwiFarms. The CEO himself stood by his freedom of speech rule, but said that KiwiFarms is the most hateful, disgusting website he's ever seen.

2:39:02
Unknown_16: So when we're joking about the company coming in, I mean, that might have happened. But I was wrong. I wasn't right on that point. It was the CEO who said this site was awful and good riddance, basically.

Unknown_03: So I'll give Keppel's this one point.

Unknown_16: It's kind of a bravery statement because at the end he goes, we won't cower just when a group of people make us think. And that makes Keppel's and her supporters really, really mad. It's proof enough that Cloudfare are transphobic and they want trans people to die. That was the narrative. And so that blows up. They do. They literally just go on any thread on that fucking website and they're talking about how they want trans people to die.

2:39:38
Unknown_27: This isn't even a question.

Unknown_16: More like a week later, yeah. And it wasn't a statement from the CEO. It was Cloudfare, the organization. So God only knows what happened behind the scenes. We might never know.

Unknown_06: Yeah. Maybe the board members are like, we got to deal with this right now, buddy. Sorry.

Unknown_06: I'd imagine. Also, I mean, in the day, from a company's perspective, it's just dropping one website and everyone gets off your back.

Unknown_16: It makes sense from a business perspective.

Unknown_05: Like, you're a company, you're a business.

Unknown_16: Like, I'm sorry, but there's only so much I'd love. There's only so much you can stand up for. But it's just not going to happen.

Unknown_05: Not in that situation. That makes sense. Okay.

2:40:11
Unknown_16: All right.

Unknown_05: Someone says this is AJ levels of storytelling.

Unknown_16: Like, man, I'm trying. This is like over a year now.

Unknown_06: AJ? No, you're doing good, I think. People are shitting on you. I think it's funny.

Unknown_16: Yeah, Kev was more sus than the character among us handing out DIY hormones.

Unknown_05: True! Holy shit. Bring up the clip.

Unknown_23: However, viewers immediately picked up on how odd the video was. It was truly more sus than a character from Among Us.

Unknown_05: There we go.

Unknown_05: Oh, there we go.

Unknown_27: Alright, there we go. Finally, they just admit it.

2:40:43
Unknown_16: So, can I give context for this and try and be fair?

Unknown_05: This isn't something we dance away from. This is something I even talked about when I talked to Noel. I was like, there's a lot of transphobia on your site.

Unknown_05: It's not something that we want to defend. I'm not married to everything that Kiwi Farms is. I'm just pro-free speech.

Unknown_15: No, but Kefals here is upset that I vaguely mentioned the HRT directory.

2:41:15
Unknown_16: We didn't bring it up because it's so damning and there's so much evidence of fuckery with that source that it looks unfair to bring it up. It looks like we're kicking her while she's down. So I don't know why she's tempting us with this. Oh, there it is. There it is. The HRT directory is fucked. Bob posting is fucked. And if she doesn't like my statement there about it being fucked, I'm happy to bring up all the evidence, but I doubt she'll want me to bring that up.

Unknown_05: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, when she comes out, if she wants to talk about it, we can talk about it.

Unknown_05: It's just like, okay, I get exactly where you're coming from.

Unknown_27: I know the type of person that you are.

Unknown_06: We're doing a great job. So where do we go from there then? So Cloudflare drops Kiwi Farms.

2:41:53
Unknown_16: Cloudflare drops Kiwi Farms.

Unknown_06: And Kevyl says, I'm moving on. She's not down right now. Well, I mean, it was down then.

Unknown_16: Yeah, it was down then. Cloudflare has dropped it. Null is frantically scrabbling. And I think it got re-uploaded to Tor really quickly for a short while.

Unknown_16: While that's happening, Kevyl's claiming she's moving on. But really, behind the scenes, her team, especially in Fong's Jones, they're all the ones running these botnets and doxes. They're contacting other hosts, so like alternatives to Cloudflare.

Unknown_16: And they're trying to say, hey, there's Kiwi Farms. Don't let them back on.

Unknown_06: Right.

Unknown_16: um you should have seen the video and so yeah null scrambling and kevles moves moves on in big big brackets um while kevles is doing this by the way kevles was also tweeting out null's mother which again we're talking about the hypocrisy if you want about doxing probably shouldn't post how's that hypocrisy when that's a photo that null himself posted to his own website and that photo was featured in a news article she's a she's a person who's known to this earlier but uh yeah it's you could say the same thing to her and also you your intention was to dox of course yeah

2:42:44
Unknown_27: His mom, actually, she lost her job for calling a trans woman a bull dyke. I'm not even joking. Like, she got fired over this. For saying that this trans woman looks like a bull dyke. That's how she lost her job as a realtor.

Unknown_06: Post Null's mother and where she works. I mean, she's not supportive of Kiwi Farms in any way. She's just, like, his innocent mom.

Unknown_16: She's supportive of her son. I mean, Kevles tweets out a photo. I think it's a good show. It's just a picture of Null with his mother next to him.

Unknown_16: And Kevles tweets out, what a cute family. Surely his mother will not lose her job because of his son's heinous actions and half the media internet. And what Kev was implying is, hey, my fans, please go- No, that's not the implication, actually.

Unknown_27: So, the situation with Nell's mother calling a trans woman a bulldyke, this happened because Nell went on the Dick Masterson podcast and recited this story, which got forwarded to the board.

2:43:30
Unknown_27: It got forwarded to the realtor board, and she lost her license, and she could no longer be a realtor. That's what happened, that's what I was referencing.

Unknown_05: And it's like, I guess this is one of the things where, like, we're disagreeing with her intentions, you know what I mean? Yeah. According to her, it's, okay, well, I was just saying what happened. But, I mean, given her history of, like, saying, if you're a Kiwi Farms user with an account, then I will find out who you are. I will get your docs. I will get you, you know, I will get you fired from your job. Don't tell your family about it. It's like, given what she said there, it's like, well, we can speculate, at least to her intentions here, probably not being totally innocent. She can claim otherwise, but, you know, I just don't believe it.

2:44:08
Unknown_15: No, I agree.

Unknown_16: I don't have anything to add. Harassed Null's mother. Get her kicked out of her employment.

Unknown_15: It's a big wink and a nudge.

Unknown_16: So again, I'm leaving this alone now. It's kind of crazy how these people who are defending the site know literally nothing about its history.

Unknown_27: Actually, no, that's not crazy. That makes more sense to me.

Unknown_05: I wouldn't say that we defended the site. We defend its right to exist. I don't think that we defend like the users of the site. And that's ultimately the issue with Kiwi Farms. It's like, you know, you want to take a principal position and be pro free speech. But at the same time, you know, you disagree with what people on the site do. But that's ultimately, you know, that's that's the cost of being pro free speech. You know, you have to accept that there's people you disagree with out there who are going to say things you disagree with.

2:44:40
Unknown_05: Yeah. And that they have to, you know, they just have to exist. I mean, couples can disagree with that on a fundamental level.

Unknown_05: I think she definitely does. But, you know, that's our position. Our position is not that we love everything Kiwi Farms does or that the users do.

Unknown_05: And that's a problem. It's like trying to paint everyone on the site as one person is wrong, in my opinion. In the same way that a lot of people will say, like, oh, 4chan did this. It's like, well, 4chan is not one person. 4chan is... hundreds of thousands of people who have used that website. You know, millions of people who have used that website over time.

2:45:14
Unknown_05: So, yeah. Yeah, no, I agree.

Unknown_16: Great piece of evidence.

Unknown_05: Right, okay. And that's hypocritical, obviously, because the whole thing against Kiwi Farms is that they doxied people and ruined their lives. They're evil.

Unknown_06: Okay, okay, okay, wait, wait.

Unknown_27: Posting a photo of someone is not doxing. That's never been doxing. I don't understand this really, like, fucking loosey-goosey definition of doxing.

Unknown_05: Okay, well, you don't just post a photo. You post her name, her full legal name, okay? Like, I don't know what else you can call that other than doxing.

2:45:46
Unknown_16: You can add more detail to it and make the dox more damning, but it was still a dox.

Unknown_05: Yeah.

Unknown_27: Doxing? Like, posting a fucking photo of someone isn't... You need to post their address.

Unknown_06: The guy's mom.

Unknown_06: It's just not a good look. Okay, so that's obviously bad. What happens after that? I mean, people are critical of her, but obviously for people who are on her side, like, well, it's justified because it's, I mean, it's Kiwi Farms anyway.

Unknown_16: From Kefla's side, people like to mention a lot, well, Kiwi Farms isn't down, and there'll always be alternatives, and they'll always come back. And while that is true, it's important to mention that even now, Null is constantly scrambling, making sure this is secure, this is okay, that I'm not being attacked.

Unknown_00: I remember trying to access the site for video research and it was like... There we go.

2:46:42
Unknown_27: Access the site for video research. He just admitted what I said earlier. The reason that he defends Kiwi Farms is because he makes a living off of Kiwi Farms.

Unknown_05: Once again, that's not an admission. And once again, like I pointed out, I don't make a living off of Kiwi Farms. You've mentioned in videos before using Kiwi Farms as a resource anyway.

Unknown_16: You weren't hiding it.

Unknown_05: I've never been hiding it.

Unknown_05: And I can't deny that sometimes I will use it for video research. Yeah, that's undeniable. But I don't make a living from Kiwi Farms. If Kiwi Farms went down for the rest of time, I would continue to make money. I would make even more. I would continue to increase my wealth. I would make more money. Like I would be fine. I would be totally fine.

2:47:13
Unknown_05: So, yeah, I don't depend on Kiwi Farms. I think maybe she's not familiar with my content. Maybe she is and she's just being disingenuous. I don't know. But I don't depend on Kiwi Farms for my income. I'd be fine.

Unknown_27: His motivation is entirely in self-service to him in his own career. He has a financial interest in keeping the site going.

Unknown_25: You have to download Tor and then you have to do this.

Unknown_05: And once again, I mean, I already went over this, but just not true. I didn't even bother with that. I just waited until it came back. That's fair.

Unknown_16: I couldn't deal with all that. And that's the truth. I mean, even if you downloaded Tor and did all that, it'd be up for 13 hours and it would just go again.

2:47:45
Unknown_06: And the crazy thing is, even trying to access archives of the site was impossible because, well not impossible, but the main archive site people use is Wayback Machine, and Wayback Machine has banned Kiwi Farms, so you can't even see archived versions of the site for any purpose. And it's, I mean, Kiwi Farms is a... Yeah, I mean, you mentioned, you mentioned, oh, who's the female, Taylor Jones? Taylor Lorenz is her name. Taylor Lorenz. Yeah, so Taylor Lorenz is a... Left-wing streamer. Twitter journalist. Twitter journalist. And her uncle runs the Wayback Machine, and actually when she was getting shit on Twitter, he removed her from the Wayback Machine so people could see her old retarded tweets. which is just like it's so dystopian the idea that like just based on who you know you can erase the past Taylor Renz was actually supporting this hashtag drop kiwi farm to help bring in people mainstream I don't know I mean at least in my head you have to be like you have to have the outlook you have to think about the world like you're a fucking child in order not to understand that how the world actually works is who you know helps you get ahead that's how the world works and that's how it's always worked

2:48:16
Unknown_05: But there's also this guy... I mean, I guess. I don't think that's a good thing. I'm aware that's how the world works, but I don't know that that's... That's a thing in your favor to brag about. I think his name is Ben... Benjamin something like... Oh, this part.

Unknown_16: He was a big journalist who was doing all these pieces exposing people to what Kiwi Farms is and the most unfavorable light. Here's what they do. Here's how they attack people. And then it got exposed that Keffles was paying this guy. Or that Keffles was being paid by him.

Unknown_27: So I remember this, and this went viral, and it was the silliest fucking shit. So... I got a sub. I got like a $5 sub from one of the chatters on KGG. And I had my email opened and I can see because the subs on KGG are through PayPal, I accidentally said their dead name out loud, which happened to be the same name as the journalist who wrote that piece on me from NBC.

2:49:08
Unknown_27: So they all started rolling with this conspiracy theory that I was bankrolling mainstream journalists when in actuality, I was like panicking and like apologizing because I said, I'm sorry I outed you because it's like I just dead named one of my chatters. I felt like a piece of shit. I didn't mean to.

Unknown_05: All right. Um, so how do we feel about this? Is this, do we fuck up here?

Unknown_05: Hello?

Unknown_05: Ready?

Unknown_05: Thank you. Push the talk on buddy. Uh, hold up.

2:49:50
Unknown_05: Hello?

Unknown_05: Yeah. I think his Hank, his internet died real quick.

Unknown_05: Awesome. Um, all right, we'll just wait. He did send me some resources though.

Unknown_16: Did the images come through?

Unknown_05: They did come through, yeah. I can hear you now. Sorry. Sorry, I think it cut out.

Unknown_16: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So basically, it's going to be Keffel's word versus mine.

Unknown_16: Keffel's claims this was a donation. Someone had the same name, but dead named by accident. And then eventually it was conspiracy. Now, what I'm saying is it was an automatic payment.

2:50:24
Unknown_16: And that Keffels has claimed numerous times to have press connections, which I've sent you in the second image.

Unknown_16: Ben Collins, along with Taylor Lorenz, both write favorable articles about Keffels.

Unknown_16: Then Keffels reads out this automatic payment from Ben Collins. And when Ben's confronted about this, he immediately denies it. And then at a later point, Ben asks publicly how to delete Twitter DMs so that both parties can't see them.

Unknown_05: Mm-hmm. All right, The Quartering says,

2:51:16
Unknown_05: okay there's that and then uh it's literally everyone's word against each other's i need to make hashtag drop kiwi farms movement aware of this as i think there's a possible possibility a danger to reputations of good people who have post far-right websites and personalities for years that couples is engaging in tactics much like those of kiwi farmers she's optics poison

Unknown_05: And here we have, I know you weren't involved when 8chan was dropped, but us talking to each other is optics poison. I want to work with you. I want the site down by any means necessary. That said, the ace up my sleeve is my press connections, and I cannot afford a blunder of this magnitude.

Unknown_05: So, yeah, I mean, I guess, you know, she can claim that it's not that way. I mean, maybe she's telling the truth. Either way, the point is really just that she has press connections, you know?

Unknown_05: Yeah, yeah.

Unknown_16: It's gonna be her word against mine. I think it was an ultimate payment. I tried to find the clip because I thought it'd be a great piece of evidence. But the only ones I can find are on really shady archive sites. So what I'm gonna try and do is find one and screen record it and re-upload it if Keffals wants me to find the video of the donation. But the recount I gave and the recount she gave already differs anyway, so I know there won't be disagreement.

2:52:07
Unknown_05: So Keffals got back to me.

Unknown_05: my reaction to what you already said so keffels messaged me on discord she says hello can i pop on i say yeah you're welcome to after finish the vid she says most recently this is half an hour later she says nah i don't want to keep getting dodged if the conversation was important it would have happened i said i told you i'm willing to after i react to my reaction uh sorry after i react to my reactions what you already said

2:52:57
Unknown_05: although i fucked up my message i should say i told you organized times to meet up later in the week anyway i don't know why this is if we're dodging yeah i mean like i said i'm totally willing to have a conversation with her in like fucking maybe maybe half hour max if she could just wait that long just for us to finish this i might not it's already three in the morning here Well, I'll talk to her a little bit. I mean, it's fine if you don't want to, but, um, you know. I'm willing to talk to her.

Unknown_16: It's just fucking, I can't go on much longer, man.

Unknown_05: Yeah.

Unknown_16: I'm going to talk to her. A specific relationship.

Unknown_05: For what?

Unknown_16: Well, for the articles, so that Kev will get more support for this hashtag.

Unknown_05: So there was a financial relationship going on to get, like, astroturfing media attention.

Unknown_11: Yes, yeah, yeah.

Unknown_16: I mean, it was brilliant, really astroturfing, but yeah, it was mainstream media exposing... Trevor, thank you so much for the 20 gift subs, because that makes me feel better for sitting through this bullshit.

Unknown_27: I'm going to be having Turkey Tom and this British guy on stream at some point. Arif is going to be joining me as another person on my side because it's going to be a two of us and two of us sort of deal.

2:53:49
Unknown_16: normally is basically what Kiwi Farms was.

Unknown_27: So if you're watching this on YouTube, remember, make an account at keppels.gg slash live.

Unknown_16: Ben Loeber. That was it. Ben Collins. Was it Ben Collins? I want to say Ben Collins, but Ben Loeber sounds right. Yeah.

Unknown_06: No, Ben Collins. It was Ben Collins. Ben Collins.

Unknown_16: Yeah. Ben Collins was being paid. He really helps us. Ben Collins is the same guy who, whenever there's a school shooter, he will be like, well, this is the fault of Cyclopedia Dramatica and Kiwi Farms who push these psychos. He's very good at getting the mainstream viewers into this alternate internet world.

Unknown_05: Okay. And getting them to hate it, obviously. Yeah.

Unknown_16: Yeah, so he's the one that donates to her, and she kind of pays him. They both benefit. Right, okay. And that's kind of where we're at now. I mean, there was the Destiny stream, if you saw that, where Destiny kind of said, I'm done, here's my big expose. There's a whole other lore with Destiny, because I believe Destiny... By the way, she's never responded to the manifesto at all.

2:54:26
Unknown_05: Has she not?

Unknown_16: I didn't do too much research if she responded. She's never responded.

Unknown_05: She made one joke about it on Twitter, but she's never actually responded to it. It looks like I just checked in on her stream and she's done reacting to us now. Oh, really?

Unknown_16: I did see her complain that the chance for the transphobia, but she must have missed earlier when we both said we're not okay with that. And you've put in like measurements to make sure it gets reduced.

Unknown_05: There was apparently some guy. I've seen a bit, but I've seen it all be deleted.

Unknown_16: So I don't know.

Unknown_05: Apparently there was someone I gave admin a while ago that was being transphobic, so I already went through and I demoted them and I banned them from chat. As far as I can tell, I don't see any transphobia in chat. I literally was explicit with not only the staff in my Discord, but also the moderators of my chat to be like, yo, get rid of transphobia. I think all the moderators have been trying really hard.

2:55:05
Unknown_16: I don't think it's fair to say that we're trying to house transphobia here. We're just trying to critique Kefl's actions and what Kefl says.

Unknown_05: I literally have no interest in being transphobic. I just want to debate her actual ideas. Okay. He's not just done.

Unknown_06: He's suing her, or attempting to. Well, that'll be very slow going. It'll be very slow going. Okay, he sent Keffles a cease and desist because of Keffles' lie about the stealth thing, because Keffles was claiming that he was causing hate raids to her, which is not true. It's ironic because even if it was, it's both sides.

Unknown_16: I mean, both of them attack each other. Both of them really don't like each other.

2:55:39
Unknown_06: Keffles cannot claim that they're just an innocent victim. Well, he sent a cease and desist saying, basically, if you don't make a public apology and retraction so that I can email this to journalists and get them to stop spreading these lies about me, then I'm going to have to take it. This time, Destiny's no longer going to sue Keffles unless Keffles starts talking about him again. But that's only because this happened recently.

Unknown_16: When this was recorded, it was supposedly still going to happen.

Unknown_06: And as far as I know, she hasn't responded officially to the cease and desist yet, but that's what's going on right now. Kiwi Farms, as of now, it is up. Kiwi Farms is up right now. You can check it on your... I will eventually make a response to the cease and desist.

Unknown_27: I have a lawyer that I've hired on retainer. I'm talking about it. I just, I take legal stuff like this really seriously, and I don't like that it is being turned into content. So the majority of my responses to it are going...

2:56:11
Unknown_05: You don't like that it's being turned into content? You turn fucking everything into content. You turn your own identity as a trans person into content. You don't give a fuck. Don't morally grandstand about that, dude.

Unknown_16: If she's trying to say that Destiny brings it up and that's content, I can kind of see where she's coming from. Like if she wants to keep it private between the two of them, I understand that at least. Yeah.

Unknown_27: To be off stream. Because if this, you know, if it ends up going forward, if I end up having to go to court, it's going to be an incredibly boring, incredibly untransparent and incredibly costly endeavor. And none of, no one is going to come out of it happier in the end.

2:56:42
Unknown_05: If it went to court, you would get fucking owned. You wouldn't be happier in the end. I think Destiny would be happier in the end because he would get you to issue retractions and you would get fucking destroyed for being a... I guess it would be slander is spoken, written is liable, and I think you've committed both, so you probably would get fucking owned.

Unknown_05: internet i can check it for my college wi-fi so that's really good indicator of how it's doing and the most recent thing i saw from kevles was her saying that she was glad mr medicare was had cancer and was dying true yeah but i mean kevles constantly says that for attention i mean there was i mean if we're attention or not it's probably not good it's not nice i love how me responding to someone who's a piece of shit is me doing stuff for attention it's just misogyny bro like

2:57:31
Unknown_27: I can call someone who told his chat to spam 41. What does this have to do with misogyny at all?

Unknown_05: This has literally nothing to do with misogyny.

Unknown_16: It's not because Keffels is a woman that I am critiquing her for making fun of someone's cancer. Like, where does the femininity come into that?

Unknown_05: Where does the misogyny come in? It has nothing to do with anything.

Unknown_27: percent in relation to me a piece of shit and say that him dying from cancer is a skill issue that's fine like when he was covering when medicare was covering the cloudflare stuff he put um the you will never be a woman acronym on screen uh in relation to me again it's like i don't care what happens to this guy he's a piece of shit i don't think i don't think mr medicare is i think he's heard worse i mean he's heard worse it's just i'm not saying i feel bad for him i'm saying it just it reflects poorly yeah if you ever want to make the argument that keffel's is morally consistent it's not at all

2:58:15
Unknown_06: Yeah, it's impossible. The only thing you can say is if you support her and her, I mean, I guess selfish motives, you can support that. But if you want to go after her, if you want to support her for consistency. I love how I'm the selfish one, but he's defending the doxing site implicated in three suicides.

Unknown_05: Once again, not implicated in three suicides at all. And when we actually talked about the details of that, she ignored it. But now that she gets to have the gospel moment, she's like, implicated in three suicides, which is just... I gave a really basic rundown in this video, and in this stream, I've given more detail.

Unknown_16: Like, Kevils, if you want to make this point, please respond to my arguments. I know that there's disagreement. I know that there's, you know, it's going to be he said, she said, and that Buse's suicide is still up for debate. But you've got to respond to me, because otherwise I'm allowed to get away with saying... Yeah, there was no suicide. No.

2:58:46
Unknown_27: No. And that's also not what I said. I didn't say... We didn't say anything even close to that. We literally said there are a lot of problems with the site that are fair to acknowledge, right?

Unknown_16: We don't like what some of the users do. We're not okay with the dog thing. But at the end of the day, freedom of speech, the website should still be allowed to be up. And we've proven that since Kiwi Farms wasn't behind the swatting and wasn't behind the attacks, it's not like we can claim they're a malicious site. I mean, there are a bunch of totally valid problems to have with Kiwi Farms.

2:59:18
Unknown_05: Even some of the problems Kefals has with Kiwi Farms are, I'd say, justified. Some of the basic problems she has. The problem is that the person who's saying them is a total hypocrite, right? Exactly, yeah. That would be the problem.

Unknown_27: Doxing? Not so bad. Because, you know, they don't dox me. So, whatever. Also, I really love paying my rent every money with research materials that I get from this doxing site.

2:59:51
Unknown_16: You're going to have to look for someone else. You got one of your mods saying, uh, Ben Collins got fired from NBC for being openly corrupt and taking bribes, lol. Yeah, there you go.

Unknown_06: Well, I guess that's what you get for being openly corrupt and taking bribes, right? That makes sense. I mean, not to, not to cheer on his, like, you know, the downfall of his career or whatever, but that is what happens when you do that, so.

Unknown_30: Yeah.

Unknown_05: Yeah. And that leaves us where we are now, which is... Kind of, yeah.

Unknown_16: I mean, if you want to get the three major players, it's Kiwi Farms, who, I mean, even right now, they're doing their comp, uh, the big vote on who's the biggest lol count about that, you know, Keith Keffels, and, um, this, what's her name? I can't, I keep forgetting her name, so... Yeah, Liz Wong-Jones. Both of them are on their, like, competition. Destiny is obviously suing, but he had that big stream, which is like, if you want a perfect response, I'd probably point to that. It's so concise. He mentioned my article, and he says it's terrible, and that ED's a terrible source. So hi, Stephen, thanks. Did he say that? It's really funny. I thought it was really funny.

3:00:22
Unknown_06: I don't know if it's a meme or a troll, but it's pretty dramatic. One of the worst sources I've ever used in my life.

Unknown_16: Never go on there. So good.

Unknown_06: I mean, there are a lot of troll articles on the site now.

Unknown_16: It's terrible. I mean, like, the whole point of the site is to be unsubstantiated. I just thought it was a funny site. But if you want a great response to Keffel, that's what I'm trying to get to.

Unknown_06: Yeah, he made a three-hour-long response stream to her, basically going over it all.

Unknown_27: You just dumped in, actually, how he saw you and popped you up. Because she was the most recent.

3:00:55
Unknown_06: Yes. Does that about wrap up the Keffel story, then? I mean, where does that leave us now? She's still around. Like you said, she's trending.

Unknown_16: Because people discuss it, not because of her actions. Yeah, so right now Keffels has the Twitter, where she's being a bit more calm comparatively than she used to be. And her major thing is this YouTube. If you remember, during the hashtag drop KiwiFarms, she moved home because there was a gun pointed at her head, supposedly.

Unknown_06: She was supposedly swatted.

Unknown_16: Swatted, yeah.

Unknown_06: So she moved to Ireland, tweeted out she was in Ireland, and then blamed KiwiFarms when she had people trying to follow her.

Unknown_16: um so now her big thing is to be clear here i wasn't i wasn't trying to like say that the swatting was yeah that's that's poor word choice on my part it's more so that she's inconsistent with the story yeah i would never deny the swatting happened i mean the police themselves she was swatted but the point i was trying to make again both now and then i was sleep deprived of it not a good excuse but that's just how it is um yeah there was inconsistencies in how she told the story but she was swatted yeah yeah

3:01:48
Unknown_16: Wait, so you can't say what country you're in?

Unknown_27: Or else it's your fault if you get doxxed? What in the fuck kind of logic is this? This is some goofball shit.

Unknown_05: We could even go into detail on the whole swatting thing because there were a lot of details there that seemed totally misconstrued and false.

Unknown_16: I mean, yeah, the whole sorting thing was Keffel's really poorly described what happened. She claimed she was deadnamed the entire time. No, I didn't. By the police. Came into her apartment, put a gun to basically her head. No, I didn't. Pulled her aside.

Unknown_05: Yes, she did. I have all the proof here if you want to go. Yeah, so let's definitely go through that one by one. Let's dissect her claims. I'm going to rewind this a little bit just so Chad can hear exactly what she said. On the whole, fuck, on the whole swatting thing because there were a lot of details there that seemed like totally misconstrued and false.

3:02:20
Unknown_16: I mean, the whole thing was Keffel's really poorly described what happened. She claimed she was dead named the entire time. No, I didn't. Came into her apartment, put a gun to basically her head. No, I didn't. Pulled her aside.

Unknown_16: You did say that.

Unknown_05: And we're going to bring up the proof.

Unknown_16: Right, I'll start with the dead name first. Just give me a second and I'll put the links, Tom, then you can open them.

Unknown_05: Sounds good. I'm going to go over the swatting. This should be probably the last 12 minutes of this.

3:02:53
Unknown_05: It's the last major allegation I want to get done.

Unknown_16: So here is her claiming she was dead named the whole time.

Unknown_05: All right, here we go with this link.

Unknown_27: During the arrest, the police officer referred to me by my dead name. I was booked in the station under my dead name. The police, when talking to my mother, referred to me as her son.

Unknown_05: Alright, so there we got that. Claiming she was dead-named.

Unknown_05: Let's just rewind this one more second to hear what she said. Can't say what country you're in?

3:03:26
Unknown_27: Or else it's your fault if you get doxxed? What in the fuck kind of logic is this?

Unknown_16: No, I didn't. I mean, yeah, the whole story thing was Keffel's really poorly described what happened. She claimed she was dead-named the entire time. No, I didn't. Okay.

Unknown_05: Dead name the entire time. No, I didn't.

Unknown_27: During the arrest, the police officer referred to me by my dead name.

Unknown_05: What is this fucking like? Is this supposed to be like a fake PTSD face? This is so... Hey, hey, hey. I don't know.

3:03:57
Unknown_16: It could be genuine. I don't want to... Let's not... Maybe it is genuine.

Unknown_05: Just, I don't... We caught her out in a lie.

Unknown_16: We caught her out in a lie. We don't have to, like, attribute fake emotion.

Unknown_27: The police, when talking to my mother, referred to me as her son.

Unknown_05: fucking on Valium or something.

Unknown_16: So I've got the police report. They say they didn't. And then there's a clip from like a latest stream in September where Keffel's ex-fiancee says at no time was she dead named and she's nodding along.

Unknown_05: All right, here we've got the message statement from police chief Steve Williams.

3:04:31
Unknown_05: Further to my statement yesterday, I would like to share an update in relation to this incident. As a result of further investigation, we do not believe that the threatening emails received by city hall officials originated with Ms. Sorrenti. We believe there was a deliberate attempt by a third party to place suspicion on Ms. Sorrenti in relation to what are now believed to be false threats to harm people at City Hall. This is sometimes referred to as swatting. With this determination made, Ms. Sorrenti was released unconditionally from custody and all of her belongings have been returned to her.

Unknown_05: Um, you know which paragraph? Okay, here we go. This brings me to the allegations as to how Ms. Sorrenti was addressed during her time in London police custody using an incorrect name, her dead name, and gender. While I cannot confirm any conversations which may have transpired during Ms. Sorrenti's initial arrest, activity in our holding cells is monitored by audio and video equipment. At no time while she was in our holding cells did members of our police service address Ms. Sorrenti by her dead name and gender. I personally reviewed the recordings and found our officers were polite, respectful, and professional. The reference to Ms. Sorrenti's former name appears to stem from the existence of prior police reports.

3:05:04
Unknown_05: Okay, so she said that during the arrest she was dead named Sorrenti.

Unknown_15: And they said no. And then here's a clip from like two months later where... Well, in fairness here, here they said she may have been dead named during the arrest, but not in the holding cell.

3:05:46
Unknown_05: So during the arrest would be the thing to contend now.

Unknown_12: They actually had to go inside the apartment, like in our front foyer, almost right to our bedroom door. And they yelled at Clara while she was in bed. So she got up. They were saying, Clara Sorrenti.

Unknown_12: Note that they did not use her dead name at this point either. Okay, so this is during the arrest.

Unknown_05: Apparently they didn't use her dead name during the arrest or in the holding cell. But in this video, she claims...

3:06:18
Unknown_27: during the arrest the police officer referred to me by my dead name during the arrest the police officer referred to me by my dead name saying clara serenti note they did not use her dead name at this point either they said clara serenti we know you're in there so where did they use her dead name i'm confused as to where where she's claiming they use her dead name and then further on in this clip she claims none of this ever happened i just don't understand um yeah what do you think birdie

Unknown_16: No, I agree. Sorry, I'm just giving the evidence for the next point to disprove. No worries. No, I didn't.

Unknown_05: She says, no, I didn't say that they put a gun to my head. Let's rewatch that one more time for proper context.

Unknown_16: No, I didn't. Yeah, we already went through that one.

Unknown_16: put a gun to basically her head. No, I didn't.

Unknown_05: She says she didn't claim they put a gun to her head. So, Tom, if you go back to the original video, in fact, give me a second, I'll give you the new link. Sure.

3:07:18
Unknown_15: If you scroll along in here, the quote I need you to find while I get this other link ready.

Unknown_05: On August 5th. I think it's right at the beginning. Here we go.

Unknown_16: I was woken up by London police services pointing an assault rifle at my face.

Unknown_27: On August 5th, I was woken up by London Police Services pointing an assault rifle in my face.

Unknown_05: So she says that openly right there. Let's see what she says here. No, I didn't.

Unknown_27: No, I didn't.

3:08:06
Unknown_05: She says it right here. Here's another clip where she says, when I went into the hallway and when I saw that assault rifle, I screamed and thought I was going to die.

Unknown_16: That sounds to me like I turned the corner and found a gun to my head, but maybe I'm wrong.

Unknown_05: Right here she says she was woken up with a gun to her face.

Unknown_27: On August 5th, I was woken up by London Police Services pointing an assault rifle in my face.

Unknown_05: Pointing an assault rifle in my face. Here we have this video.

Unknown_01: The email, Sorrenti says, had given out her real address and resulted in police with guns at her doorstep and her being arrested when i went into the hallway and then saw that assault rifle i screamed and i i thought i was going to die okay um so we've got already two instances where the story slightly changes first this third clip is weird because she goes she goes back on what she says in this third clip so she

3:08:59
Unknown_05: Do you want me to explain? You can explain it, yeah.

Unknown_16: In this third clip, she's claiming that they didn't go into her apartment until they had the search warrant and she was arrested or in custody.

Unknown_04: Let's see this.

Unknown_27: So... One of the last things that I want to... One of the last things that I want to address before I get into the actual policy proposal is...

Unknown_27: People were trying to say this was not swatting because they did not do a dynamic entry, meaning they didn't break down the door and rush in, which I never said they did.

3:09:44
Unknown_27: They did not go into my apartment until after I was in custody and they had a search warrant signed.

Unknown_05: So, yeah, here we have what she said. I mean, that even more sounds like it's in the favor of the police, right?

Unknown_16: I think we've successfully proved that she claimed that there was a gun to her head and that she was dead named the whole time. Yeah.

Unknown_16: color aside and their reasoning was this note which was uh dead naming it was like uh his her name is clara his clara's old name i won't say don't worry i'm not no no no that's not what i'm saying i was just gonna say somebody was emailing supposedly email saying i am i am clara aka dead name um i am schizophrenic i have a gun i'm trans very trans i have a shirt that says that so i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna kill i'm gonna kill people with a gun that was basically the note right um and uh yeah so if you believe the keffel's argument the police came in were really rude and she's gonna sue them if you believe the police argument They basically had to come in, do their job. They didn't hold a gun to my head. They calmly got her and her fiance out of the room and they talked to her.

3:10:38
Unknown_27: They literally arrested me. They fucking... What the f... Okay.

Unknown_05: I don't think we discounted that she was arrested. We didn't disagree with that, no.

Unknown_27: Okay.

Unknown_27: CBC Keffel's gunpoint.

Unknown_27: August 9th, 2022. The Canadian Broadcasting Company.

Unknown_05: Here she brings up an article. We're going to check this out. One sec.

3:11:13
Unknown_27: Trans Twitch star arrested at gunpoint.

Unknown_27: That's literally the fucking CBC.

Unknown_05: Okay, but this is an article title. And the article title, by the way, is based on her own testimony. Okay? Trans streamer.

Unknown_15: Destiny argues this point, but basically someone from Keffel's team defected and proved that they were sending to newspapers this document of what to say and what their view is, and then some of these newspapers rolled with it.

Unknown_16: So it's Keffel's words being printed and then Keffel's pointing at it as evidence.

Unknown_05: Yeah, trans switch star arrested at gunpoint, fears for life after someone sent police to her London, Ontario home.

3:11:50
Unknown_05: And here, the reason they say this is because of her own quote where she says, when I saw the police gun pointed at me, I actually thought I was going to die. I've never been that terrified in my life. So the reason why they said this is because that's what she said happened. I'm not doubting that the police were there and that they had guns. I'm just saying, like, her specific recounting of order of events, order of operations, so to speak, doesn't really make sense.

Unknown_16: No. No.

Unknown_16: being attacked by, like, 12-year-olds online because they are transphobic.

Unknown_05: Okay. Well... And if you remember, we've got FlamencoStream.

Unknown_16: That's the big thing right now is that we haven't seen a lawsuit. We don't know where that money went. And Keffels is trying to push up this YouTube channel, and she's paying for YouTube ads. So people are trying to claim with no evidence that Keffels paid for these ads using the donation money. And I don't have proof of that. That's so fucking dumb.

3:12:31
Unknown_27: I make enough money on Twitch that I can spend, like, $100 a month on ads because I want to grow my... And once again, we just... I mean, maybe she's responding to other people instead of us, but, I mean, just to make it clear, in the stream, we never say that she misappropriated the funds in order to...

Unknown_05: This was like two days after the Flamenco stream where Flamenco had tried to claim that because Keffels has been accused of stealing money from a communist party, which by the way, that accusation is baseless, because of that accusation, this money from the swatting is also being misappropriated.

3:13:03
Unknown_16: And we all said, no, that's wrong. And there's no proof. And Tom and I were talking about that Kevill's done a bunch of like trans charities. So there's plenty of like evidence in the past of her managing money successfully. So we defended her against that point. And that's what brought her up in the first place. Right.

Unknown_27: My YouTube presence. Why do people assume that I'm just like that I make absolutely no money and that I am subsisting off of a GoFundMe? This doesn't make any fucking sense. These people are insane.

Unknown_06: I thought about it a little bit, and even if she is paying for it with the donation money, it's not like it's all of the donation money. It's about... I don't think YouTube ads are that expensive. It's like $100, $200 a month to get a decent amount of YouTube ads, so... Yeah. And I think she has money anyway outside of that, probably, so... Oh, yeah.

3:13:35
Unknown_16: I mean, Kevles doesn't do too badly. The stream's never been that popular, but I definitely think the Twitch brings in income, especially during the homeless saga when she was moving around the United Kingdom and Ireland.

Unknown_05: I mean, you know...

Unknown_16: I don't think it was doing too badly. I don't think you make that much money off Twitter, but it definitely helped the brand. It doesn't help now. It doesn't help now. No, but it helped push the YouTube and the Twitch. No, it did, yeah. The YouTube has never done well. The YouTube has always been a kind of mess. So paying for adverts, I don't blame her. If she's trying to build a YouTube career, I mean, good luck to her, but she's just not very entertaining. That's the major thing people have realized is that beyond the drama, she gets in.

Unknown_05: She just gets owned and she's just like, she has nothing to say. I'm a monotone robot and even I can recognize boring keffels.

3:14:09
Unknown_16: I'm sorry, but it's just over.

Unknown_05: It's kind of funny because even when we're calling her boring, her response is boring. She's just boring during the entirety of it.

Unknown_06: Yeah, as far as I know, she doesn't have a lot of charisma. She's not very good. I mean, her YouTube channel has 40,000 subscribers, but her videos are not popular by any means.

Unknown_27: Bro, your entire video is you faceless talking to a British guy while you're badly playing Minecraft. Like, come on. How in the fuck?

Unknown_05: And my video, if you can believe it, about you, got how many views did it get? 50,000? 60,000 views and that's 12 days ago.

3:14:44
Unknown_05: Let's see how Keppel's videos are doing. 8,000 views.

Unknown_05: That one's doing all right. 11,000, 17,000, 21,000.

Unknown_05: Your video from 12 days ago is 46,000. So let's say I own you, bruh. I own you. And I'm actually talking about old drama here. You're talking about current drama. That's kind of gay. That's kind of a gay strap. Look, it's gay, but I got to bring it up, dude. I got to bring it up, okay? I got to mog her. I got to mog.

Unknown_15: You're gay.

Unknown_27: do how in the fuck am i doing anything less than what this guy's doing i'm just like you're just boring that's what i'm saying you're just boring you're a boring person you're boring personality you don't have much to say you just kind of suck at making content sitting here playing rap reacting to a video and talking to chat this is what streamers fucking do it's what streamers do you're just bad at it that's and that's my point and that's why no one watches

3:15:34
Unknown_06: She's trying to do, like, these sort of, um... I can actually share my screen right now.

Unknown_24: Oh, yeah? Share my screen. Okay. And I'll do it on Discord as well.

Unknown_06: She's trying to do these more, like, mainstream commentary-type videos that someone, like, let's say, Critical would do, right?

Unknown_16: Yeah, I mean, she's always been trying to.

Unknown_06: Not really. What do you mean, not really?

Unknown_05: Come on. Don't play dumb. You know you're trying to get mainstream. You know you're trying to blow up. Oh, very much. Actually, you have ten minutes till your Augie things go down.

Unknown_27: Guilty.

3:16:10
Unknown_06: There's this. And she's done three videos. She doesn't want people to know, but her pinned tweet forever was a picture of her on the hospital bed with her, like, father of her, saying, wow, I just got my bottom surgery.

Unknown_27: Wait, why do I not want people to know that? Yeah, that was my... Because you said that you didn't want to talk about it.

Unknown_05: Do we even need to explain? She literally said she didn't want people to know. No, I just want to say that it's not now, but on her old Twitter, the bigger Twitter before I got banned, it was her pinned tweet.

Unknown_16: So that's the proof.

Unknown_05: Someone says, wait, Birdie is... No, Birdie is not the right opinion. Well...

Unknown_27: pinned for a long time. That was a very special photo.

3:16:43
Unknown_16: Can I just say, if you want to be a trans icon, I think Kevles did some smart decisions. Openly saying, I've had surgery. Openly saying, you know, I do my best to be a woman. Like, at the end of the day, I don't think that's a bad decision if you're trying to be a trans icon.

Unknown_16: It's just the fact that she's a horrible person doesn't help. Right?

Unknown_06: Let's see here.

Unknown_06: Three videos of Andrew Tate. Okay, this one is just like a meme clip, it looks like. Greta Thunberg accidentally gets Andrew Tate arrested. Also, I don't even think that's the case. I think that's fake.

Unknown_16: It's not. But, I mean, everyone made videos like that. I don't know.

Unknown_06: No, they are. I just find it, it's just like another notch for me of like, well, she seems to be very comfortable. I mean, look at the other day.

Unknown_16: She is trying to be consistent.

Unknown_06: I'm just saying she seems very comfortable, like, promoting the most convenient narrative even when it's totally false, right? Yeah, honestly, after watching this video, I'm even, like, unsure if I want them on the stream, because it's like, I don't know what I'm going to gain out of this.

3:17:19
Unknown_05: Well, that's the thing. What you want to gain is us making you look good, and we're not going to make you look good. We're going to make you look bad, because you're a bad person who's a fucking pathological liar. Like, you're not going to look good.

Unknown_16: They've lied a lot. I don't know if they're pathological.

Unknown_05: I mean, if you lie in sequence all the time, that's kind of pathological, no?

Unknown_16: I don't want to make a massive claim like that, but if you want to... I mean, if we're talking pathological for the point of like a literal mental illness, I don't think they have the mental illness, but I think they just pathologically lie.

Unknown_05: I think they have those traits. Fair enough. Okay. You can't walk away. I mean, you can't walk away from that one, right? That's pretty tame to say. I feel like that's a bit big, isn't it?

3:17:50
Unknown_16: That's accusing Kefals of being unable to be truthful in any given context.

Unknown_05: Well, given that almost every context we've talked about, she was not truthful. I mean...

Unknown_16: This is the stream where we're being critical of her.

Unknown_05: I think it's a different circumstance.

Unknown_27: That's fair. Thank you for giving my YouTube channel views and talking about my YouTube channel on your bigger channel. I appreciate the support.

Unknown_05: I guarantee no one from my channel is watching you.

Unknown_27: What would I even gain out of this sort of situation? They're just kind of boring.

3:18:21
Unknown_27: They're getting mad at me for lying, apparently, but this entire video has just been riddled with inconsistencies. They literally are talking about how I control the media.

Unknown_22: You yourself claim to control the media.

Unknown_05: You yourself claim to control the media in DMs and publicly. You claim to have inroads to, like, Twitch. I don't know what else to say.

Unknown_06: The UK wants trans people dead. I'm sure that's true.

Unknown_16: It's real. I met Boris Johnson. I met Liz Truss. They both told me in confidence.

Unknown_27: Okay, so I don't even want to like fucking see. Actually, wait, Isabel, are you here? Isabel, are you ready to hear the roast you're editing?

3:18:56
Unknown_27: the day don't with dark greta this is so funny the gift today is that andrew tate she doesn't even have a good um speaking voice she sounds really like hey be careful what you say what do you mean be careful what you say this is this is how this is how people on twitch got banned this is how i'm not i'm not like this what the are you talking about i'm just saying be careful how you word it i'm i'm being very careful i have no listen some people in chat i've seen will be transphobic and deadnamer and stuff oh yeah i'm not i'm not cool with that i know that whenever you discuss a trans person in a negative light you're gonna see that a little bit okay so yeah so people in his chat have been dead naming me this is

Unknown_05: But I denounced that. I said that's a bad thing. We just said don't do it.

Unknown_16: Like, this is not a D against us.

Unknown_05: It's not like I'm on stream and I'm like, fucking... Didn't even write fucking now in chat, guys. Fucking, yeah. Upvote, Reddit, Chungus. It's not like I'm saying that. I'm literally just saying- This stream and that stream, both the moderators were being really careful to delete transphobic messages.

Unknown_16: And we said, don't do it. We said it like three times this stream.

Unknown_15: This is not a deal against us.

Unknown_16: If Kiwi farmers or detractors of carefuls are being transphobic in chat, it's not representative of the Turkey Tong community or Tom or myself or anything.

3:19:55
Unknown_06: Yeah.

Unknown_16: Of course.

Unknown_06: Out front, out loud. I'm not cool with that. Don't deadname her, especially not in my name. It's not good. Not cool. Don't do that.

Unknown_27: It's gotta be one of the worst.

Unknown_06: And just don't be transphobic in general. Attack her ideas. If you're gonna be so bad, you wouldn't have to constantly keep insulting and lying about them.

Unknown_16: Okay, but wait.

Unknown_27: If you're talking about attacking my ideas, why would you go over my YouTube channel and be like, look how boring and uncharismatic and not interesting she is?

Unknown_05: We spent a fucking hour and a half, or sorry, rather an hour attacking your ideas. And at the end, we were just like, her YouTube channel is bad.

Unknown_05: And your YouTube channel is still a part of your ideas, right? That's something you did rather than something you are. Right? Is your YouTube channel, like, the fact that you are a YouTuber, is that equivalent to you being trans?

3:20:26
Unknown_27: Anyway, I'm going to dedicate an hour to talking about her. She is so boring and uncharismatic and not interesting at all. That's why I am making a video about her that is this long.

Unknown_16: I think it's easy to criticize Keffel's actions about having to rely on- This is just retarded. Of course, yeah, yeah.

Unknown_27: ...to be a buzzkill, but small dick energy is actually pretty gross as a dick. Dick size does not correlate to one's worth as a person. I always hated the whole big dick energy shit in Party because some of the worst men I have ever hooked up with had massive- Yeah, this is just like, there's no music, the editing is like bland and boring, like- Dude.

3:20:59
Unknown_05: Even the outro music is just like boring. Totally reflective of the rest of the video. Um, yeah, I don't know. Hi, hi everyone. Just bad content.

Unknown_06: People are saying Keffel's voice beats Smaggle's voice.

Unknown_16: Do you have a stance on that?

Unknown_06: Um... Maybe. Smaggle, do you take place of that?

Unknown_27: No Roblox music.

Unknown_06: No more Roblox music. Smaggle died. I did like that her editor, like, stole my thumbnail, though, for this.

Unknown_05: Yeah, true. And I got into, like, the weirdest slap fight with Keemstar. This is the conversation where... I feel like... Was this actually... This was the discussion with Nick.

Unknown_27: It's not Turkey Tongues, it's Ghost Gum.

Unknown_05: I don't know fucking anything. So Nick asks her, why did you start this? That's fake. That's literally fake, okay? It is mine. I created the meta. I already proved it in a different stream, but I'll prove it again.

3:21:32
Unknown_05: Okay.

Unknown_16: Um, did Ghost Gum steal from you?

Unknown_05: Clearly here, I created the meta of putting the gross Wojak and Ghost Gum, then used a very, very similar Wojak, okay, to make this video.

Unknown_05: Now, what he did here is he put Mods, Losers, Pedos. That's what he did. I changed it to Losers, Creeps, Pedos. I also put the Wojak back on the left side where it should have been. I put the text on the right side. So you stole from each other.

3:22:04
Unknown_05: He stole from me, and I stole back justifiably. Okay.

Unknown_05: Fuck.

Unknown_16: Alright, let's keep watching. Right. XYZ in chat said, what would the baby between Smaggle and Keffel sound like? Probably something very fucked up. I don't want to know. Oh my god, that was...

Unknown_27: That was kind of painful.

3:22:37
Unknown_05: Something that was so painful you didn't have very much to say about it. It was probably painful for you because you had to get a deal being owned.

Unknown_27: Like, I don't understand. I also don't understand the criticism that my content is boring or something or like how it's more boring than what their video was, which is just two dudes in monotone voices doing a back and forth with poorly researched information while Minecraft is playing. Like, come on.

Unknown_05: I'd say it wasn't poorly researched. There were a few points off, but it wasn't that bad. And also, Minecraft is based, guys. Minecraft is based. More based than whatever this stupid game is. I had some, like, minor inaccuracies, but none of my claims that were wrong.

Unknown_04: Exactly.

3:23:14
Unknown_27: How does he have 500,000? Well, this is a second channel with, like, 100,000. Yeah, it was really, really painful. I don't even fucking know about that one.

Unknown_05: Is that the end of the reaction, pretty much? Is that all she has to say? I think there's, like, one last thing she says, but if you don't want to respond, I don't blame you.

Unknown_16: Um, let me just... What's the deal with the monotone voice that makes you fight to sleep in a class lecture?

Unknown_27: Yeah, I do miss Clowntown, too. I wish they would make more videos about me.

Unknown_05: No, I think that's it. That's it? Alright. Um... Well, I guess that's the end of the reaction, guys. That's the end of the Keffel's response to my, uh, me and Birdie's video about her. That's all she had to say, really. I think we provided a lot of evidence for most of the major points she ever disagreed with, or we made. yeah i mean yeah definitely um there are a few things that we didn't uh have the proper proper reference for but i mean if she if she wants to claim that we like totally boxes down i need to get that stardust clip if kevin really wants to get me on that i'll get them we'll get them for the next stream

3:23:46
Unknown_05: In fairness, she messaged me. I'll message her now and I'll say, want to do it now? Because she said, can I pop on? I'm not hiding, but I really might not because it's 3.30. It's fine if you don't. I'll just do it on my own.

3:24:22
Unknown_05: She said, can I pop on? I said, yeah, you're welcome to after we finish the vid. She said, no, I don't want to keep getting dodged. If the conversation was important, it would have happened. I said, I told you I'm willing to after I react to what you already said. And I just said, you want to do it now?

Unknown_05: She says keep getting dodged. We set up a date beforehand. We set up a date, and this date, by the way, is later in this week anyway, so we're not dodging. We wanted to react to this video because she posted content about us, and we wanted to talk about it. We wanted to react to it. She specifically made some claims about us, about me, about my intentions, about Birdie's intentions, about our background, about things that she had done that she claimed that we hadn't done. She made claims about Kiwi Farms, and we just wanted to react to them. I think we did a pretty good job of reacting to them. I got as much evidence as I could that was relevant.

3:24:56
Unknown_16: There's a lot of other things, further allegations that we didn't make, so I excluded them.

Unknown_05: Yeah, I mean, if she has further contentions, then I'm willing to talk about it with her.

Unknown_05: Are you going to get off? I'll stick around a little bit longer.

3:25:28
Unknown_16: If Keffels does join, though, I want it on record. I don't want to hide from you, Keffels. I'm more than willing to critique and debate you. I'm just tired.

Unknown_05: Yeah, I'll talk to her. Once again, I'll still talk to her.

Unknown_05: I'm going to go piss and then I think Smaggle wants to get in the call so we can call with him.

Unknown_05: Sounds good. If you want to just talk to the stream and keep them entertained for like one minute, you can do that.

Unknown_18: I'll give it a go. I'll reach out, I guess. I hope you guys enjoyed that, though. That was a whole afternoon of gathering a few screenshots and videos.

3:26:27
Unknown_18: Lol, Kefl's coping and raging in the chat is the most amusing part of the react.

Unknown_16: Yeah, a lot of it is like, wow, you said that? Wow. Like no real response or critique, just sort of amazement.

Unknown_18: In before Keffels joins and calls Tom transphobic.

Unknown_16: I mean, yeah, Tom and I discussed, you know, if we do a debate, likely we'll be pushed into a corner where we'll be asked to defend transphobia and, you know, bigotry. And we're not about that. It's freedom of speech. It's not that we like doxing or that we like hatred.

3:27:04
Unknown_18: Yeah, I know it's not Keffels. I'm just responding in general to that sort of quote. Don't worry.

Unknown_18: Sorry about the robot voice, by the way. Like I mentioned, it is sleepy as all hell.

Unknown_18: Sleepy hours, real sleepy hours.

3:27:42
Unknown_18: Burley, if Keffels was cis, would you treat her just... I mean, assuming Keffels was still popular and cis, I think would be just as critical.

Unknown_16: Like, I think we did a pretty good job of avoiding anything to do with the transgender debate when we could.

Unknown_16: Keffels does use transgenderism as a shield as well, so you kind of have to mention it.

Unknown_18: Sleepy boys, where you at? For real, for real.

Unknown_18: All right, guys, I'm back.

Unknown_05: What is up? How's it going, Birdie? It's all right.

Unknown_15: Yeah, entertaining chat.

3:28:20
Unknown_05: Yeah, it's, I don't know, what do you guys think about that Kefla's video? I thought it was pretty cringe, pretty bad, pretty unbased and unpilled, but I guess it's kind of up to you guys to decide how you feel.

Unknown_16: It was a bit chaotic, but I think we did a decent job of responding to what Kefla said.

Unknown_05: Yeah, yeah, for sure. That's pretty good viewership. This stream had like 1K live. Can't complain.

Unknown_05: I'll respond to some super chats now.

Unknown_05: Here we go. And then I'll add Smaggle to the call. FJS archives for two says unbanned Punjabi power. I hate peanut Bobo.

3:28:54
Unknown_05: No. KatzaFlockin45 says, allegations are evidence. TimboSlice083 says, thank you for your content. So I've gotten through all of it on all your channels. Well, I appreciate that you like it.

Unknown_05: Bendover with the two says, this gay. Landon says, Tom's voice is bass. Can't change my mind. Greg, thank you for the two. I think that's all the ones I missed.

Unknown_05: FanboyFucker88 says, did you see the drama in chat? I did see a little bit of it.

3:29:30
Unknown_05: Um...

Unknown_16: I'm surprised you didn't see the transphobia. The mods are doing a good job deleting it, but it's undeniable that we had some people... I don't know if they were raiding or if they thought they were being funny.

Unknown_05: I saw a little bit of it. I mean, you know, the mods did their best to get rid of it. I don't know what else you can expect us to do, really, other than that.

Unknown_05: You know, the goal in any case is obviously to just mitigate the amount of bad stuff in chat. We're not cool with transphobia. And I think Kevles was saying it's, like, not enough because there's still some transphobia, and it's like, well... There's always going to be something out that slips through the cracks in any, you know, situation. You can't blame me for how the chat acts on every, you know, account. But, you know, I do my best to deal with it when it comes. So, yeah, that's really what I got to say about that.

3:30:04
Unknown_05: Let's see here. I feel bad for Kiwi Farmers who had to record this. Pay them well. How can I become a mod? I'll sell you my soul. I don't know if I'm a motherfucker. You're kind of edgy, buddy. I don't know if I trust you.

Unknown_05: All right. I'm going to add Smaggle to the call. We'll talk to him for a little bit.

Unknown_05: My loyal producer. If Smaggle joins, I think I might head out. That's totally fine. I'm going to call the group strategist. Maybe you can head out, buddy.

3:30:39
Unknown_15: Sure, sure. Thank you for coming on.

Unknown_05: Thank you for having me on the chat.

Unknown_15: I hope you enjoyed the stream.

Unknown_05: Oh, they did. Thank you for coming on. Appreciate you compiling some stuff and getting it ready. Take care, buddy. Sweet dreams. Everyone say, WBirdie.

Unknown_05: WBirdie in chat. I'm going to call Smaggle.

Unknown_05: Yo, what's up?

Unknown_13: Yo, what's up, dude? I just want to say, oh, Tom. That was an L. It's an L because you should have responded to her sooner rather than later.

3:31:11
Unknown_05: I did respond to her. I said she could come on stream after I watched the video. I literally said that to her almost the entire day.

Unknown_13: Yeah, but You see, me and the rest of the chat wanted content. There literally was content, but we prepared a reaction to her video.

Unknown_05: Okay, Smaggle, the problem is if she just comes on in the middle of it, then we're not going to be able to get through our actual response to her video and all the claims. She's going to bring up a bunch of other retarded, unrelated shit, and she's totally free to do that, but after we react to the already fucking hour and 20 minutes of content she made about me.

3:31:46
Unknown_05: And I told her that, and then she used that as an excuse to get away because I was going to call out a bunch of her lies, and she didn't want to deal with that. So she was going to come on before we got to the more serious claims, and when she got there, she decided to back out and say that I was dodging. I'm willing to talk to her right now.

Unknown_13: Had she responded back? No, she's ignoring. Okay. I do know that she was having very bad mic problems on stream today. I'm going to check her Twitch.

Unknown_04: She's not even live anymore.

Unknown_13: Yeah, she stopped streaming a while ago because she was having really bad mic problems. Yeah.

3:32:23
Unknown_05: Uncle Lane says, why did you get my wife in the right-wing pipeline? I don't even know what that means. Dumpy says, Tom, add me. All right, Dumpy, I'll add you, buddy. I'll add you to the call.

Unknown_05: Holy shit, how long have I been streaming? I don't even, time flies. Three hours, three and a half hours? Holy shit, guys.

Unknown_05: Appreciate the donut, Uncle Lane.

Unknown_05: Yeah, I had a dumpy. Thanks for the entertainment while I was washing dishes. Hope you enjoyed it, Fire Rose. Dumpy, what's up?

Unknown_14: Yo, what's up, man? How are you doing? I'm doing good, how are you? Are you live?

3:32:56
Unknown_14: I'm going to go live when I'm done eating, but I wanted to say thank you for pioneering this whole live thing.

Unknown_05: What do you mean?

Unknown_14: You did this. You made it. You started going live, and it inspired me to go live.

Unknown_05: Well, I'm glad I inspired you, you know. Augie messaged me and said, that was a good cookie. Augie messaged me and said that he was happy about the fact that we're all streaming and getting content out there, and I like it too. It motivates me, it makes me happy. I feel like we're getting a little network together.

3:33:27
Unknown_14: Look at the red cups, man. What the fuck is a red cup?

Unknown_14: I created this meme. What does it mean?

Unknown_13: Okay, so a couple days ago on a random Minecraft stream that you were doing, Tom, I think it was with the two Team Fortress guys.

Unknown_13: People were spamming in chat, is your red cup ready?

Unknown_13: and they were like i made a song smile you're doing a horrible job i made a song that i intro my streams with and the big part of the song is bring the party up with your red cup ready oh and then the chat started just dropping emojis in the in the chat wait wait hold on

3:34:16
Unknown_13: Okay, you know what whatever sure what what?

Unknown_14: Sorry, no, no, no, it was just like go ahead use because you said you were inspired by Tom, but I don't know maybe maybe figure He created the the he made no no no no no I I think I think my timeline is just kind of fucked up by now.

Unknown_13: So can we add um, what's the guy we want to add to this?

Unknown_05: Oh, I Uh, the Sapphire guy? I'll see if he... Yeah, yeah. You gonna add it? Yeah. Hipponous Sappho? Uh, Sapphire Scribe is his name. Sapphire Scribe is his name.

3:34:49
Unknown_05: Um... Yeah, well, I guess the Keffals thing isn't happening. Were you watching, Dumpy?

Unknown_14: Yeah, I was watching. Sorry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

Unknown_03: It's fine. What do you think?

Unknown_14: Um, I said it in chat, and I don't know if this is gonna be, like, a little too mean, but I think Keffals is an idiot.

Unknown_05: Bro, Keppel's an idiot in chat, guys.

Unknown_14: That's my take. That's my take, guys. That's my nuclear ass take.

Unknown_05: Keppel's owned. That's the first time I've heard that, actually.

3:35:22
Unknown_14: Really? Mm-hmm. Awesome.

Unknown_05: I'm glad I could have someone know that. I don't think he's really smart.

Unknown_14: Bro.

Unknown_05: So, hello, SapphireScribe. Hello, hello, hello. Yeah, what's up, buddy? How's it going?

Unknown_26: How's the mic sounding tonight?

Unknown_05: Sounds good. Sounds good. Nice. How's your balls feeling tonight?

Unknown_26: Pretty fat. Pretty fat. Not going to lie.

Unknown_05: That's good. So the reason I want to bring you on is because you probably saw I posted the clip of us talking about Andrew Callahan.

Unknown_05: Yeah, yeah, I did. It's my YouTube channel. Did you see he posted a response like I think yesterday?

3:35:54
Unknown_26: yes i did i actually uh it was so funny uh uh smaggle uh messaged me while i was at work earlier today but by the time i got home and he messaged me his second message uh i released my response to his response so yeah i i covered that on my channel uh today and uh yeah man uh

Unknown_26: What do you think about that, honestly? Because I've got some thoughts. I've got some opinions.

Unknown_05: I thought it was... I mean, I haven't... In fairness, I haven't seen the whole response yet. I watched the first minute of it, and I thought what I saw was good, but I haven't really seen past that. What were your thoughts?

3:36:31
Unknown_26: Man, I... So...

Unknown_26: I thought it was super diplomatic. And part of me was chalking that up to just him having it prepared for stream. I'm sure he put a lot of thought into it, assuming that he wrote it himself and everything.

Unknown_26: But the more that it went on, I was kind of confused. And in my video today, I did a side-by-side with the accusations from the moldy freckle girl.

3:37:03
Unknown_08: Yeah.

Unknown_26: And I just...

Unknown_26: So where it stands now is that if you take both of them at their word, he says in his response that he always took no for an answer and that he never crossed the line when it came to consent. So he's very convincing about it. He's pretty much very straightforward. But then the moldy freckle girl, she said that she repeatedly told him no prior to him even getting physical at all with her. So before they get into the car, according to her account, he had repeatedly asked for sex and she had repeatedly declined. So that is like a direct contradiction to what she's saying in his response.

3:37:36
Unknown_26: But then...

Unknown_26: The only other thing was about it that really stuck out to me. And I don't think he owes the internet any answers or anything. I think it's a little different when you're a content creator of his size. It's a little more true. But it was just really weird how vague it was. There was no specificity in it at all. He thanked his accusers for coming out and accusing him and getting their stories out there.

3:38:21
Unknown_22: Yeah.

Unknown_26: and then categorically denied doing anything actually illegal. I sat on it for a minute. It took me a whole day to get the response out of it and just want to jump on it.

Unknown_26: but uh it yeah the more i thought about it the more confused i was about just like his whole response yeah i mean maybe he doesn't want to admit to any legal wrongdoing and that's that's the thing about it you know um yeah but he wants to seem you know optically good um you see here nick diorio for two in chat says i broke jeremy again um yeah so if you guys who don't know the quartering oh nick you're in here yeah what's up i infiltrated yeah i'm gonna uh i'm gonna show your your tweets on my screen

3:39:05
Unknown_17: This is ridiculous.

Unknown_05: He does this once a month, dude. I don't get it. We have Nick saying, so I made a really light joke about Jeremy getting trolled by Keemstar, and now he's erupted into his monthly meltdown. I'm reposting these because they'll surely be deleted in the morning. Here we have the quartering saying, yes, Nick, we all know you're part of Keem's cringe fan club. The real sad part is you're sitting here overjoyed that a man tweeted about another grown man. You took time out of your night to screenshot pointless tweets as what is sadly a hilarious self-own. you got to find the original tweet where he's going after like 80 30 for like pedophilia I have not seen that.

3:39:38
Unknown_05: Here's a reporter saying, I'm not allowed to reply. A reply from me is proof I am mad. I tweet like 100 times a day and in none of them I'm ever mad. It said no mad person ever. It's simple. Attention desperate individual spits venom at larger account. Any reaction at all with them is winning, even if they lose the interaction. It's a really sad existence, but it's the way the internet has worked forever. Nobody acts in good faith on Twitter. Replying to tweets is an L. You're replying to tweets right now. That's not the tweet. That's actually a different tweet. There's another 80-30 tweet that he quoted.

3:40:20
Unknown_17: He's gone to war with AD30 because he follows too many people.

Unknown_05: Another Keemstar white knight. I love you, Black Lives Matter song, Bow Blacks, so cool.

Unknown_05: So drunk. He's so drunk. Here, this is the one that tripped him up.

Unknown_17: This is the tweet he got mad about. I don't think I did anything wrong here. I gotta be honest with you. I have no idea what I did wrong.

Unknown_05: Here we go. Keemstar pretended he wasn't going to buy the Wizard game. We got all these epic Jeremy tweets.

Unknown_05: I'll be purchasing two copies to offset this.

Unknown_17: By the way, look, that Keem tweet is total bait. He's like, I'm not going to buy Hogwarts. He put the Ukraine flag. Yeah.

3:40:55
Unknown_05: JK Rowling won't be... JK won't be Rowling in my money. Yeah, obviously it's a joke. I'll be gifting Keemstar's version of Hogwarts Legacy to one lucky gamer. Please reply with your Steam name and the hashtag KeemstarIsBald to enter. Okay, I'll consider the console versions too.

Unknown_05: Sick burn tipster. You get caught up in any more cringe cheating scandals.

Unknown_00: Those messages telling you how you're all alone while married.

Unknown_05: Sit down. You follow 2000 people and even have fewer followers. Honestly, the tipster was a bit of a burn.

3:41:25
Unknown_05: You follow 2000 people and have even fewer followers. I'm not sure you're in any position to be interjecting opinions. I guess maybe on what I guess maybe on what pedophiles look like. I don't know any. I assume you do. I'm just a clear picture of what pedophiles look like.

Unknown_05: He does seem mad. I don't know why he gets really drunk once a month and he just like completely lashes.

Unknown_17: It's so funny. I don't know.

Unknown_05: He's making me sneeze. Thank you. This has been happening for like two years. Yeah, I'm aware of Jeremy's drunk tweeting. Why do you get so pissed over someone tweeting about him peeing in the sink?

3:42:01
Unknown_17: Because I guess it's like, he has to deal with that a lot. Ever since Ethan made it a soundbite or whatever, people just, like, respond, you pee in your basement, and it's probably annoying.

Unknown_05: It's not that big of a deal. I mean, if he was so proud about it in the first place, like, I'd just kind of own it. I'd be like, whatever, you know? It's not a big deal. You know, now he's trying to say that he wasn't baited.

Unknown_05: He wasn't baited into... Look.

Unknown_17: This is the most recent one.

Unknown_17: Um...

Unknown_05: Apologize for the noises, guys. I'm having lots of ear, nose, and throat related issues. Yeah.

3:42:34
Unknown_05: You understand? I know Keemstar was trolling, right?

Unknown_05: You get that, Nick. You really think I thought suddenly one of the biggest fuckwits on the internet was suddenly all about hashtag trans rights? No, you actually didn't think that. I don't think you actually did that. Okay, I don't... This is Cope. This is Cope. He definitely thought it was real. He was a fucking... Unreal, dude. What the fuck? He was fucking mad. Like, this is you, buddy? Let's see what this is.

Unknown_30: School teacher goes out of her way to say she's totally not growing, but then goes on to describe something that sounds a little suspicious. Make sure you leave a like on this and you subscribe so I can keep bringing these people to...

3:43:06
Unknown_05: That's such a funny... It sounds a little like grooming. Anyway, be sure to leave a like and subscribe.

Unknown_30: This public school teacher goes out of her way to say she's totally not grooming. Is he drunk here too? But then goes on to describe something that sounds a little suspicious. Make sure you leave a like on this and you subscribe so I can keep bringing these people to life.

Unknown_00: Now, there's been a lot of recent pushback against queer teachers in the workplace, especially in public education. A lot of people are coming out saying that we're groomers, that we're...

Unknown_05: This is just kind of nothing. I'm bored. Why is he, like, libs of TikTok now? Hasn't he always kind of been that way, though, a little bit?

3:43:40
Unknown_17: No. Now he's, like, literally making fucking portrait mode video of, like, teachers. It's weird.

Unknown_05: Actually, it's kind of a nice website. I kind of fuck with it a little bit.

Unknown_05: Hey, Tom. What's up?

Unknown_13: Could I just ask you a quick question?

Unknown_22: Okay.

Unknown_13: Like, this has nothing to do with the quartering, but I just want to know, why did you mod Shag King? I know you demodded him today, but why did you even mod him in the first place?

Unknown_05: I don't remember. I think he just asked for mod, and I thought we needed mod, so I just gave him mod. I didn't really think about it.

3:44:12
Unknown_14: Yo, I like Shag King. He's my mod.

Unknown_05: Yeah. W Shag King and Shag. I'm aware he was probably a poor choice now, but I didn't know that at the time. yeah i don't know i've modded game star before and he banned half my chat i was like after i after tom criticizes keflis how can i come on stream and make him look bad right now how can i possibly make him look bad um that's i i literally fucking posted in in chad when fucking keflis was restreaming your stream like we're doing the best we can to destroy all the transphobic posts like

3:44:46
Unknown_13: We can't do anything with it. So I'm not trying to make you look bad. I'm just asking you why you modded. I mean, I don't know. I don't remember why.

Unknown_05: The Velma disasters got way worse. We got this. Let's check this out.

Unknown_30: what's going on everyone jeremy here from the recording i'm absolutely happy to have you here on monday well it is monday if you haven't at least when i'm recording it i hope you're having a wonderful fucking i don't like this genre i don't like the like right-wing nerd people wait you don't enjoy the seven video a day genre you don't find those as like reassuring the disaster that is the velma series continues to the dumpster fire really just continues to smolder and it's

3:45:24
Unknown_17: I like how he clarified disaster to dumpster fire in case we weren't sure what he was talking about.

Unknown_05: I get why he does it. I mean, it definitely makes him a lot of money, you know? Oh, sure, yeah. I mean, you can't knock him there.

Unknown_17: I hate that.

Unknown_05: The content sucks, but, like, you know, there's a degree to which I would probably degrade my content if it made me need more money or get more views. Like, I get it. But this is another level, I would say.

Unknown_05: Pfizer destroyed new Elon Musk Twitter files and their explanation enrages Twitter.

Unknown_05: The thumbnails are Kino. What is this one? Holy shit. It's just a picture of fucking the vice president, Kamala, but she's like blue.

3:46:00
Unknown_17: Where's the fucking thumbnail I tweeted out the other day? Hold on. His Eminem thumbnail was like insane.

Unknown_26: My favorite quartering moment was when he was convinced 9-11-2 was happening over Twitter.

Unknown_17: Right now, it's Harry Potter 9-11. That was the last one of these because we had a fucking big fight there. What about this one, Tom? I just sent you.

Unknown_05: let me take a look uh here we got oh my fuck i saw that fire for feminist m&ms tucker carlson and more dunk on woke candies and here we have tucker carlson seemingly grabbing the green m&m but the m&ms are the asshole of the uh but

3:46:43
Unknown_05: I didn't even realize that. That's another... That's another layer. That's another layer to the candy. Eminem goatsy in a thumbnail. I don't even know what to say about this. And we have... Who makes these thumbnails? Is this... I don't know. Whoever that is should get paid more.

Unknown_05: These are truly... I mean, they're something. They are works of art, you know? John Carpet in chat saying, I will dilate you, Tom. Bro.

Unknown_05: you gotta come down a little bit as much as I should on Jeremy 2000 people like that tweet and probably found the video because I tweeted it I mean you know what the thumbnails do have you know something to them I mean I get making obnoxious thumbnails I mean you know every four videos on my main channel is uh losers creeps pedos and you know there's a reason why most of the people you're talking about are losers creeps and pedos all of them are but the reason why I do those thumbnails is because they work you know what I mean so yeah it pisses off the fan bases for those things

3:47:35
Unknown_05: Yeah, it does, but it's also, like, it's just such a disgusting thumbnail. Like, when I was making them at first, I was like, this is so disgusting, I would have to click it.

Unknown_17: If there was more room in the thumbnail, which there never would be, obviously, it should be losers, creeps, pedos, and some of them, I'm sure, are nice people. Can I add that in the smallest text possible and, like, to, like, one of the scan lines?

Unknown_05: So if you zoom in, like, it's like what Staffel used to do in old Tro thumbnails where you could find a little turkey tom in there. That's funny. Yeah, um, apparently Kepples reacted live to my stream about her, but there's no archive, so... Yeah, there's no archive.

3:48:09
Unknown_13: I think she deleted the stream right after. That's pretty typical.

Unknown_05: She said she would come on stream today, but we were in the middle of watching the video. She was like, hey, can I pop on? And I was like, yeah, you're welcome to after we finish the vid. And then half an hour later, she said, I don't want to keep getting dodged. If the conversation was important, it would have happened. And I said, I told you I'm willing to react. I'm willing to after I react to what you already said. And then I said, well, I don't want to do it now, but I assume she was off stream at that point. And then I checked and she was off stream.

Unknown_17: Look, all right, if I got to be honest with you, one of the worst decisions I ever made was accepting a convo in the middle of reviewing a video, all right?

3:48:44
Unknown_17: It's a terrible idea. Just always finish reviewing the video before you do anything.

Unknown_05: The thing is, like, she also wanted to debate right before we got into the meat of the, like, prepared content we had to talk about in response to it. Yeah. Because she made a bunch of allegations about me, and obviously I want to respond to them, right? um and if if that happened then we probably never would have gotten to finish it it would have totally derailed it if she'd come on stream who knows what she tried to say or done so i was totally willing to talk to her after but she got off stream beforehand so i don't even i don't know what to do about that but to be fair to her just because i was watching her stream i was watching her reaction and modding the chat um

3:49:20
Unknown_17: You were modding Keffel's chat?

Unknown_13: No, I was modding Tom's chat while watching. I was like, what the fuck? No, she banned me in March of last year. So I've been banned for a real long time. But anyways, she was having really bad mic issues. So I think that's probably the reason why she just ended the stream is

Unknown_13: to the really bad just shitty mic so yeah i'm just kind of like at this point i'm thinking like even if we did have a conversation i mean what would that be like given uh given you know how much she lied within within the video that we reacted to and how just like kind of snaky and dishonest it was i mean i don't know what well how productive the conversation would be um but well i mean how productive was the flamenco conversation

3:50:04
Unknown_17: I would say pretty productive, because I had a lot of fun.

Unknown_05: I think it was productive because, yeah, it was fun, but me and Nick were also able to get a point out. The problem with Cat Falls is that if she disagrees with you, she might try to deprive you. No, a flamenco conversation, I'm sorry, my fifth flamenco conversation wasn't really about getting a point.

Unknown_17: It was really just about being a dick. Like, that's literally, I don't know, man.

Unknown_06: I was trying to get a point across. Yeah, that was your first flamenco.

Unknown_17: That was your virginity breaker right there, okay? Okay.

Unknown_17: After like five combos with that guy, I'm sorry. My brain just bleeds.

Unknown_05: Yeah, yeah. All right. Well, appreciate you guys coming on. I'm probably going to get off now because I've been live for fucking almost four hours. I'm getting pretty tired. Bye, Tom. We got to stream this week, right? Yeah, dude. Wednesday, we're doing it. We're doing it. Wednesday. Wow. Wednesday, guys. We're going to be streaming the first episode of the SMP. So be sure to stay subscribed. What's it called? We're calling it the Community SMP. The Community SMP. I might be calling it the Tomboys SMP alternative. We should just call it the F-Sler SMP. Yeah, good idea. Anyway, thank you guys for coming on. Not the actual slur. F-slur. Sapphire Scribe. Colin, again, we can talk about the Andrew Callahan stuff more in depth. I'm sorry I had to cut that segment kind of short. Nah, man. It's all good.

3:51:13
Unknown_05: But yeah, thank you guys for coming on, and goodbye. All right, guys. Thank you for coming out. Big thanks to Birdie.

Unknown_05: Uh, she fucked off.

Unknown_05: So, it's not happening.

Unknown_05: She's not alive anymore. Blah, blah, blah, blah.

Unknown_05: Okay.

Unknown_05: Good job, by the way. Anyhow, uh, thank you guys for coming out. Hope you enjoyed it. Hope you enjoyed me reacting to Keppel's. Hope this gets archived. Yeah, I mean, I'm gonna post a clip of this in a few days for sure.

3:51:43
Unknown_05: Someone says, where are the archives? I got to make a fucking archive channel for this stuff. The problem is that I do have all the VODs saved, but they're not saved on the YouTube channel because I delete them from the actual channel because sometimes there's TOS stuff you just don't know how to predict for.

Unknown_05: Oh, fuck.

Unknown_05: But yeah, I probably will make an archive channel much like Augie has one. I'll just post them there so you guys can check out the archives on that channel. And if you want to watch the vids, they'll be here. But I don't want to clog up the channel with the archives too much. But you'll be getting the best clips.

3:52:17
Unknown_05: I'll have a bunch of clips coming out this week. I already have one ready for tomorrow. I posted one today. It's going to be one the next day. I'm trying to get out really consistent content on this channel.

Unknown_05: But yeah, I hope you enjoyed it.

Unknown_05: Be sure to like. Be sure to subscribe to both of my channels.

Unknown_05: Follow my friend on Twitter.

Unknown_05: Let me get my friend's Twitter up so you guys can check it out.

Unknown_05: Yeah, be sure to follow my good friend on Twitter at AnonBird with two Ds. We're up to 17,000 followers. Appreciate my friend and his tweets. And if you guys want to check out my friend's tweets, you should definitely go there. Follow me.

3:52:54
Unknown_05: Yeah, that's probably all I really have to say. I guess I'll see you guys later. We're going to play the outro music.

Unknown_05: Yeah, fuck. Where's the song?

Unknown_05: Okay, here we go. We're going to play Day to Remember, covered by Death Tech. Check out Death Tech on Spotify. Subscribe to TomDark. Subscribe to JerkyTom.

3:53:27
Unknown_05: Go to AnonBird on Twitter with two Ds and follow it. Goodbye.

3:54:00
Unknown_05: Before I go, everyone go check out Dumpy's stream. I'm going to link it right now so you guys can check it out for some more good content. I'll put it in chat.

Unknown_05: Give them a little raid. Go check them out.

Unknown_05: Okay, now bye for real.