0:00:02
Unknown_04:  Oh god If you're wondering i'm listening to his like intro music that's from his stream What is this this is the zoomiest shit


Unknown_04:  Yeah, man, like I listen to like classics like from the 2000s, you know, like my chemical romance You don't like you don't hear stuff like this anymore, bro Copyright it's like a remix i'm listening to the old school The old school whatever the fuck minecraft mice on venus


0:00:54
Unknown_04:  he has a discord and i tried to join his discord and it requires like associating your discord account with some third-party service and then using that to associate it with like eight other forms of social media to verify that you're not ban evading or some shit like um i don't know about this one


Unknown_04:  Uh... Hufflepuff. I'll probably do Hufflepuff just for the memes. Apparently they have the comfiest living space in the game. The best common room, so... I might have to.


Unknown_04: I'm gonna introduce myself to his audience, I suppose.


0:01:50
Unknown_04:  He has a nine inch nails hoodie. Oh my God. He really, he was just like me born in the wrong generation. Actually I had snails is like nineties industrial, right? That's the right. I'm in the right timeframe to enjoy such things.


Unknown_04: Well, I'd be a trans black queen. Maybe I'll have to see. I'm going to have to see the depths of the stupidity and the generator, the, um, character creator.


Unknown_04:  I'm still waiting on him to figure it. I asked I asked the zoomie man to send me a Google meet link and he did. And then he fucked it up somehow. So now I'm waiting on him to send me another one.


0:02:22
Unknown_04:  i'm playing the harry potter game comes out february 10th i want to say but because i bought the special hippogriff deluxe edition i get to play it 72 hours before the official release date so i'm gonna play it as soon as i can and i'll do that like three days in a row so um


Unknown_04:  If you're interested at all in the game, it'll give you a preview. You don't have to spend your money on the deluxe version before deciding to buy it or pirate it or whatever the fuck.


0:03:01
Unknown_04: I'm going to start... Dude, I'm going to Gamergate 2 the fuck out of that game.


Unknown_02: Streamer bait, yeah.


Unknown_02: Yes, exactly. That's how it works.


Unknown_02:  I'm bad at Blockland is the thing. I don't think anyone actually plays Blockland anymore.


0:03:40
Unknown_04: Look at the blockland.us. How many people are even playing?


Unknown_04: Looks like it has not changed in 10 years.


Unknown_04: Last update was two years ago. He made it so that you have to play... You have to have Steam to play Blockland.


Unknown_04: Let's see. There's about...


Unknown_04:  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 28 servers 1, 2, 3 8 11 14  15 15 players on 25 servers and the most is five playing block land server it appears to just be people building bricks so it's not like an actual it's not like a special service speed cart club to block land server very sad ah well there we go i got a link finally


0:04:25
Unknown_04:  I'm gonna mute this in case there's like a special message to me at the beginning of this conversation.


0:05:51
Unknown_06:  Okay. Yeah, you're good.


Unknown_01: You're good. All right. Listen, the collab of the century, Jerky Tom and Noel. This is what they've been waiting for. I'm sure you've been getting thousands of emails in your inbox. Do people even know who I am on your stream?


Unknown_01: Yeah, yeah. They all know who you are. Well, I've talked about Kiwi Farms in a bunch of my videos, so they definitely know who you are. Okay. Someone, the last person I had on stream was, do you remember Ruben Sim? You talked about him on your show. Yeah.  He was like, I love Noel, I love Kiwi Farms. I was like, really? He was like, yeah.


0:06:22
Unknown_04: He's like the Jewish guy that had a conversation with Jace from Deagle Nation and he had like a really bad stutter, right?


Unknown_04: No. What? No, that's not Ruben.


Unknown_04: No, Ruben Sim is the Roblox guy. Yeah, okay. No, he's in my chat. Sorry, I'm confusing him with someone completely different. Okay.


Unknown_04:  yeah that's a different guy yeah that's close though i mean they're pretty close i think his name was a ruben i have to look this up now i'm curious but yeah yeah no different guy different guy josh but um first of all thanks for coming on stream i uh i know you don't you don't do a lot of a lot of collabs it's not really your thing so appreciate you coming on well i don't get invited because people are afraid i'll get their account permanently suspended within three minutes of talking to them


0:07:11
Unknown_01:  well you know i did think about that and if i thought that would be the case i definitely wouldn't have streamed with you but given that nick ricada is on youtube monetized and whatever else well nick ricada's lawyer he has the extra protection that you don't have does he


Unknown_04:  um geez i think i think that he has like special ends with the company because he has so many subscribers and he's a lawyer and he's like he's like filed complaints to them like formal legal complaints i think i don't know um i'll try to avoid saying the the bad words that you've you've outlined you've outlined me i did 47 paragraph essay about what words i can't say it was one one small message we're just gonna avoid tos stuff josh okay we're gonna avoid tos


Unknown_01:  um but i am listen i'm not going to be a josh simp i'm not going to be a josh complete lover okay we're going to ask some questions about the forum um and the reason why i want to do that is because like you said i mean no one invites you on but i feel like no one hears you out no one hears your side of the story so i want to i want to do that at the very least i mean i get very uh thorough interview questions from mother jones asking me where my mother lives and what she does for a living yeah  Well, I'm not. I figured this would be a little more candid because, you know, I can actually get in-depth conversations instead of just like, you know, over email or whatever.


0:08:16
Unknown_01: Yeah, sure.


Unknown_01: So I added you to the Minecraft realm. Okay. Wait, I have to do realms?


Unknown_04: I thought I can't do realms.


Unknown_01: You can do realms if you have Java.


Unknown_04: Yeah. Okay. How do I do this? So you're just going to want to go to Minecraft realms on the homepage. I have to get a trial? Do I have to buy something?


Unknown_01:  No, no, I bought it already. Just go to Minecraft Realms on the bottom, and then on the top, you should have an envelope icon next to the Minecraft logo. You press that, there should be an invite. You just accept it, and then you go back to the homepage of Minecraft, and then click Realms again, and it should show up in a list of realms there.


0:08:50
Unknown_02:  does not it does not um maybe just go back to the home page one more time and see did you accept the invite yeah i did i did click it correctly right i didn't like click the wrong button you probably clicked it correctly i'd say just go back to the home page and uh i just see the thing realms is a safe simple way to enjoy an online minecraft experience


0:09:23
Unknown_01:  Maybe just restart minecraft real quick. Maybe you don't you don't have like you don't host it You don't you don't know how to host the server.


Unknown_04: Do you like a minecraft?


Unknown_01: I had a server but it's also populated by my fans who are gonna come stream snipe us and kill us So that's why the problem with the server.


Unknown_02: Okay one second. I'll try to I Promise you the realm is better Josh.


Unknown_01: Okay, it'll be much more intimate. We'll feel very close. We'll feel very close.


Unknown_02: Okay, so


Unknown_04:  Sorry, the actual experience of installing Minecraft is now a fucking nightmare. And it really unironically depresses me that kids your age will never be able to experience the joy of installing a computer program and actually being able to use it.  without having to like sell your soul directly to Microsoft and install all this other bullshit and more port your account to a Minecraft live account and have like a Windows genuine and all this other bullshit this literally did not like they slowly started adding all this bullshit that ruined computer games for absolutely everyone just like a couple years ago and  like starting in 2012 and they just kept adding more and more fucking garbage to it because microtransactions are so profitable every single player game in existence has had to find a way to implement and to you know add them to them um like like with fallout for instance i tried to make fallout 76 because uh like their games are like the longest running single player games that still get played by thousands of people  they're like oh we built all these great games that people love and play for a decade but we can't bilk them for cash for millions of dollars like gta 5 did we have to figure out a way around this and now everything sucks because they're all trying to do that


0:11:03
Unknown_01:  didn't like nobody play that game though Fallout 76 uh yeah I mean all these like no everyone hates the Minecraft everyone hates the fact that now you're like stopped by Microsoft as you play like the chats and in your single player like private games are like directly fed to Microsoft AI so they can like machine learn what you say and then check you for the bad words and stuff


Unknown_04:  Everyone hates that, but it's all done in the process of trying to make the next most profitable media franchise, which was GTA 5. GTA 5 is the most single profitable piece of media ever created because of microtransactions.


Unknown_04:  Really?


Unknown_01: I thought it was, like, Pokemon or something.


Unknown_04: Nope. Well, Pokemon's many, many games over decades. That's a lot. Hello Kitty, I think, is, like, number two. But as far as, like, a single video game or a single movie or a single whatever the fuck ever put out, it is... It is, um... You have a Doge skin? Is that what this is? No, it's Slabbermutt. It's my avatar.


0:11:58
Unknown_01: Oh, it's your dog? I think so.


Unknown_04: I might have just downloaded a random dog, but I think this was handmade for me.


Unknown_01:  um all righty well listen welcome to my zoomer minecraft world uh zoomers only but we're accepting you honorary millennial and just for this once just to come in this is the house that was being i saw the foundation of this house being laid down as flamenco was screaming  Oh, no, this is a different house. This is a different house, thankfully. That was on the server, actually.


0:12:31
Unknown_01: Yeah, I saw you watch the Flam thing. I did. You had some advice for Turkey Tom, you said.


Unknown_04: Yeah.


Unknown_01: Internet web sports is bad.


Unknown_04: The thing is, you're going to talk to Keffels tomorrow, and here's the thing, right?  Here's the thing about that.


Unknown_01: I don't know if she's gonna be willing to have a conversation with me after this This is the greatest way to cop out of that bullshit ever is you just invite me on and then then they're gonna cry I don't know what what pronouns I'm allowed to use like getting you permanently executed by the Mafia.


Unknown_04: So but I  um say she come on no you you have to i would rather be fucking shot dead than say today is what we're going with okay um so yeah if you want to cop out of that conversation then you can just invite me the thing is i don't want to cop out of it because i actually like


0:13:18
Unknown_01:  I want to like with flamenco right flamenco is like this like delusional person who can't accept reality with keffels the proposition she had to come on stream was that she did she disagrees with my characterization and birdie the ed editor who is on his characterization the fuck is birdie starts he's just he's this dude who just like he edits for ed I did I did a video I had him on stream he explained the keffels lore to me and I tried to give kind of a brief synopsis for the normies or whatever  So I did that, and then I posted it as a video, and it got like 50,000 views. And then I guess she watched it, because she messaged Nick DiOrio. She was like, hey, I want to talk to Turkey Tom. Can you set up this conversation? And he was like, yeah, what about? And she was like, well, I disagree with the characterization that...


Unknown_01:  guess I disagree the characterization that I pick all my battles so you know basically in the in the stream birdie birdie was asserting that she picks fights with people and then when you say she do you mean she or do you mean they have  Listen, I respect pronouns, Josh. I'm not like you. That's cringe. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry.


0:14:17
Unknown_04: I'm so sorry. Listen, kids, listen to this. I'm so sorry for what society has done to you. I wish I could have done more. I wish I had known and been in a position of power to help you.


Unknown_01: But you're not. It said you were... Actually, I don't even know what you were doing. Where were you 15 years ago, Josh? What were you doing? I was on block then terrorizing children.  oh yeah blockland what do you what is blockland what is this lore blockland was a game before minecraft before roblox um that was like a literally like a lego brick building game where you had pieces like in tetris shapes that were specific and it was just supposed to be like a lego game for other goons because the bad spot was a goon


0:15:00
Unknown_04:  and the actual people who started playing it were were literal children so he didn't like that because he hates children so you have this this terrible goon misanthrope somehow in charge of like a website full of children and the result of that was one of the most maladjusted internet forums ever created for a vulnerable population of literal kids and I am the byproduct of this


Unknown_01:  gotcha so you're it all goes back to block land some people it goes back to gamer gate with you it goes back to block everything that i do i do in the name of eric bad spot hartman uh peace be upon him gotcha okay cool well glad to know your origins as a block land gamer um all right well i think one of the first things i want to ask about because obviously this is something that i want to talk about with keffals as well i assume this will be  point of the conversation if she still agrees to come on is so there's a bunch of stuff the couple just said which I would argue is like dishonest is you know flat out lies about destiny about the forum about stuff like that but  At the end of the day if we go all the way back to the beginning the inception of where the drama started You could argue that the drama started because the forum dug through her shit doxxed her. No, it started with destiny Kethel's really wanted destiny to be a broke starving homeless Unemployable completely distance from society shoot himself in the head because he's so depressed. I know I know I know I know that's true That's not what I'm that's not what I'm saying Well, what I'm saying is the reason why she went up to Kiwi Farms is because they dug through all her shit, right and  No, I would disagree with that too what happened is that When I came to the defense, I featured this on my podcast I just mentioned in brief because this was like a you know byline on the the keffels on the destiny thread That this trans twitch streamer was taking shots at destiny And of course, it's very funny because destiny lives his life on his knees every single thing he says and does is in service of the status quo of what people are allowed to say and


0:17:05
Unknown_04:  And he holds the line completely. I think the only thing that he said is that trans trans girls have an unfair advantage in women's sports. That's all he said.


Unknown_01: I think that's not just also how he feels like you think he's this honest thing.


Unknown_04:  I don't care. I don't care what he believes. I just know that everything that I've ever seen of him, he lives his life on bended knee. What he believes is between him and his maker, but just... In a way, you kind of have to live your life on a bended knee.


Unknown_01: I mean, I'm someone who... No, you don't.


Unknown_04:  it's the reason the reason why everyone has to abide by these rules is because we let people like keffels dictate what the rules are going to be instead of just telling these freaks to go kill themselves i guess i can't say that uh to go minecraft jesus okay but okay in minecraft and roblox and yeah to jump off into the lava and then other ones is what i meant but the thing about the thing about that is uh


0:18:00
Unknown_01:  The thing about that is, like, it's not collectively everyone who agrees with Kapolos who agrees with, let's say, the kids.


Unknown_04: No, but everybody lives in fear of having their lives ruined by these people.


Unknown_01: Well, you have to because you get your life ruined.


Unknown_04: Yeah, but the thing is that if people just stood up and said, no, we're not going to do what you say, go away, you freak, it would be solved instantly.


Unknown_01: For there to be that huge of a consensus, I mean, that's a huge ask, you know what I mean?


Unknown_04:  it's not um because there were people before you you have to remember that there are thousands of years of history in mankind and every time there has been this injustice and oppressor it has taken people literally laying down their lives to get rid of this oppression and right now we live in an unjust society we live with an oppressor we live with an imbalance of power that is causing a deterioration of our quality of life and our ability to live a fulfilling and self-determined life  um we this the correction of this is going to be extremely violent because we have allowed it to progress to such an unfixable situation where if anybody says anything about this they're banned from youtube they're banned from payment processors they're not allowed to work they're not allowed to have a career they're not allowed to live in peace so this is what i'm saying i'm saying like like can you blame anyone like like can you blame someone like me let's say right i'm someone who a lot of people will accuse of let's say being all right or far right


0:18:49
Unknown_01:  I'm not, but I do like to make jokes. And some of those jokes probably fall in line with things that those people find funny. Like, obviously, I'm going to avoid making those jokes online, like, you know, in certain settings, because it would have a detriment to my career to my bottom line, right? Do you blame me for that? Do you think that's like a cowardly thing?


Unknown_04: Um, it, there is, it's hard for me to say, because this is something that would require


Unknown_04:  either foresight or retrospect to analyze correctly, it's like what is the most core if you're aspiring to Fix things to allow people to say what they want again You have to look at it from a situation where it's already been fixed before you can say what is the correct thing?


0:19:59
Unknown_01: I think it's I think it's over. I think it's unfixable No, no, don't ever say that never listen if you if you believe that


Unknown_04:  that things are fucked and they are fucked guess what all you get all you get as a benefit of that is saying look i was right if you believe things aren't fucked and they are fucked well then you just lose the benefit of saying hey i guess i was right but if you are optimistic and thing or if you're pessimistic and things aren't fucked then you might lose out on an opportunity to fix things because you've just given up already  And if you're optimistic and there are ways to fix things, then you fix them. So the only way, the only acceptable answer to this conundrum is to look at things saying, there's no way that it's fucked. We can still fix things. Of course we can.


0:20:32
Unknown_01: And it doesn't even matter if it's true. That's a very, you know, nice white-pilling statement. But to me, it's obvious that, I mean, you know, I've grown up in a time when, you know, just when I was like,  able to understand like concepts like free speech, like when I turned 13, 14, like just when I became old enough is when that stuff started going away. And so it's kind of just been the status quo, you know what I mean? Like watching leafy get banned and watching, let's say Lieutenant Corvus get banned and people like that. I mean, these are, you know, YouTubers from my sort of area of the internet that I watched get banned.  And it's just kind of been one thing after another. And then, you know, the whole the whole Kiwi Farms thing, to be honest, I thought the farm was going to be gone by like this time.


0:21:10
Unknown_04: But the thing is, is that I never gave up. I just said, I'm going to do this until I have exhausted all possible options. And it is because I maintained an optimistic approach to how I was solving problems that the site is still up.  So if you ever need proof of concept that you should never give up and say, oh, things are hopeless, then look at what I've done. I am literally one person. I do not have the support of my family. I don't have the support of my government. I have the support of no banks or financial institutions. I live my life on less than a couple thousand dollars a month, and most of that goes to my servers. But because I just look at things and say, okay, this is what we have. What can we do about it? This is the reality of our situation, and this is what I want to accomplish. What can we do about it?  I've been able for 10 years, 10 years as of February 3rd, to keep the site up through sheer tenacity alone. And the thing is that I am not an incredibly smart person. I'm not educated. I have no higher education. I have an Associates of Arts. I took Filmography 101 in a community college. I'm not like...  some incredibly important gifted individual that has made serious contributions to technology i'm literally just some guy and um everybody listening is just some guy and in some ways there are times in your life where you'll be able to have a positive impact towards accomplishing the world that you want to see and all it involves is you sticking your neck out just a little bit like you see something bad happening that you know that you can do something to correct  And it might be risky to do that, whatever that may be, but you should always do it.


0:22:35
Unknown_01: Well, here's the other question then, because obviously, okay, let's say you, you know, you did manage to keep the site up. Let's, let's give you a clap for that. But like being that martyr, being that person who  I mean is is running Kiwi farms or let's say is in any similar position It's probably not like fun. Are you a super ecstatic person about I love I love running my site. I I I love running my site. I love my site is like all you have right now, you know No, it's not I guarantee I can't say like what I do because people like people like keffels will actively try to destroy keffels of course loves to say that I'm like a cyber stalker and I try to Like fuck with people until he killed themselves


0:23:16
Unknown_04:  I can promise you that keffels would try to destroy whatever I have I have things I'm very thankful for I am NOT a depressed person that people think that I am like some you know extremely unhappy loner and I just stick to the forum because that's literally what I thought to be honest yeah well you're wrong anyone who thinks that is wrong it's what they choose to believe or rather I can't even blame them it's like I can't blame people say oh they have a negative opinion on me it's more like I  Um from what I show people what i'm allowed to show people it's very little and it's like my show is called mad At the internet. So when I talk on stream even i'm very angry I'm, never talking about the things that I love unless it's like food or other things that anyone could talk about Um without you know showing my hand too much pizza  yeah pizza and uh licorice chocolate and stuff but the the only reason why i can only show that much of my life is because uh people like keffels would literally try to destroy it immediately anything that i say that i enjoy keffels will go after there are people posting like old screenshots of me playing eve online right now saying can we get this guy banned from eve online i played it online when i was like i think in 2013 it was a long time ago but it doesn't matter they still want to get my like steam account banned or my  evil online account ban.


0:24:25
Unknown_04: So, like, these are the misery golems out there, and they try to deprive people of what they enjoy. So, no, I'm not, like, super unhappy. I just have to be very careful.


Unknown_01: Has Kefals said anything about you recently, or is that kind of... Kefals has to pretend that they won.


Unknown_04: So, it's... The whole thing is that Kefals is not allowed to, like, address what I say or address things on the forum, because as far as their audience is allowed to know, the Kiwi Farms was destroyed months ago, and it's not up, and it's never been up, actually.


Unknown_01:  right okay well that kind of leads me okay back to where this kind of tangent started if you don't mind which is with keffels okay let's say she didn't start it let's say she didn't start you know the conversation around kiwi farms bottom line is kiwi farms is a place that digs into people's past they dig into who they are and it's all you know it was all public information but that also entails sometimes with people like dream or corpse husband  involves posting info that at the time they wanted to be private right and i say dreaming you know dream and corpse husband are two people that probably don't deserve to be to be docs right to have their public info out there if they i think they should have a right to privacy their faces are on kiwi farms at the top of threads and you know family names and stuff like that i guess my question would be like how would you like how would you defend that and how would you how would you make the case to like the average person that that's like okay or cool you know


0:25:19
Unknown_04:  The thing is, is that everybody is responsible for their own privacy. And the reason why, like, I'll state this because I don't think many people understand my actual position on doxing. I am not, I don't hold the position that dox is a mandatory element of a thread on the forum. It's pretty much an inevitable component of every thread, but it's not something that I'll say, no, you can't post this thread unless you know what, you know, what middle school they went to or whatever the fuck.  there's no requirement for that the issue is is that when you start letting people decide what can and cannot be said about them in regards to their personal information is that this apply it has to apply in a way that is equitable so then everybody gets to decide what can and cannot be said about them and you might think oh well this is obviously just like maybe relatives or this this applies to a specific demographic  But the reality is, I mean, I mean, I mean, the argument there would be like, OK, well, can you just say everything but like their legal name and like docs and like face, you know?


0:26:33
Unknown_01: Yeah.


Unknown_04: Well, I'll give you a real example of where this like most people would agree. If you ask the question, do you think that revenge pornography should be legal?  uh posting nude images without someone's consent i think most people when you ask them that would say of course not that's that's horrible um you know we live in a digital society and most relationships start online and people should be allowed to have um some expectation of privacy even when they're you know they're doing something that might be considered stupid like sending nude images out or whatever the most people would have a pretty reasonable opinion like that the issue is is that for instance you have  Whores you have actual whores who sell their body and then after they're done like I'm not gonna name names But there's somebody out there who you may be familiar with who decided to do findom fart pornography before becoming a twitch icon for children Still active actually, so this person Did this themselves and then they complained that they were the victims of revenge pornography But the reality is that no actually you are a whore and  And you have sold your body online. It is a commercial product and I get to make fun of it because that's my freedom of speech.


0:27:20
Unknown_01: Well, the thing is that's a, that is one scenario, but the other scenario would be, let's say that this person hadn't done any of that. They had a private relationship where.  Or I guess let's not even say that person. Let's just say some other hypothetical human being, right? Or let's say even me, right? Let's say me as a 20-year-old. Don't send your dongas to your fans.


Unknown_04: I'm telling you right fucking now.


Unknown_01: I'm not sending it to my fans. I have a girlfriend, let's say, for some reason or another. My girlfriend took a special pill that made her go crazy and decided to put my penis out there. Would it be okay for that to be on the forum? I mean, I would say no. I would say that's probably a bad thing, right?


0:28:19
Unknown_04:  um i mean the answer is yes because everyone has to be treated the same if you want to talk that's the thing that's your answer but it's like i don't think that's people wouldn't in my eyes that's not the same a lot of people would disagree with that because it does come from revenge um the issue is is that if you're going to make that argument that you shouldn't be making it to me  Again, I am just some fucking guy. I am not your priest, not your moral arbiter. I have no position in government or authority. I simply allow everything that can be allowed, and I do not put myself in a position where I make morality-based judgment calls on pretty much anything. If you want these things to be considered unpostable, it has to be legislated. I have to know, as a website operator, as a network administrator, what exactly is and is not allowed on my website.  uh there and there's in this call to like banning doxing and shit they never ever make the call to like actually legislate what because if i had like a clear-cut guide of what was and is not allowed like i do with child pornography i know what the dos standard is i know what is and is not allowed to be posted in regards to child exploitation um then maybe i could implement  All right, I got distracted by this green and yellow red block up here that I've never seen before.


0:29:37
Unknown_01: No worries, buddy. Very pretty game, I know.


Unknown_04: Like, okay, if there was like a guide on what actually could and could not be posted, then maybe we could... I could work with that. I could work with that. And then if I disagree... Are you saying you just allow everything that's legal?


Unknown_01: Is that it? Is that your size policy?


Unknown_04: Yeah, pretty much. And...  But the thing is that nobody ever tries to challenge us because where most doxing information comes from is the white pages. And do you know where the white pages gets this information?


Unknown_01: White pages is public information, right?


Unknown_04:  Yes, it's names and phone numbers and addresses, the exact same information that you don't want posted on the internet, right?


0:30:11
Unknown_01: Yeah. Yeah, sure. They get this... Well, I guess... No, no, listen.


Unknown_04: I'm not saying that people get it from the white pages and that's why it's okay. I'm saying the reason why these websites exist and they're able to get this information is that they buy it from advertisers. Do you know the information that people can find just with your name and birthday? That shit comes from aggregation of marketing data.  so if we had rules that like made it so that for instance your voter information wasn't public or marketing data wasn't public then it would be way harder it would be way easier for people to actually exercise their freedom of speech anonymously which is pretty much currently impossible because we have no expectation of privacy because businesses own all your personal data  The anger is misdirected, is what I'm saying. People get angry at the forum for allowing doxing when it should be. Why is it that every state makes voter registration information completely public when we don't even have voter ID laws in almost any state? Like, what purpose does that even serve? And then further, why do we allow corporations to peddle our data and sell it en masse to sites like Spokio and Instant Checkmate and the white pages?


0:30:51
Unknown_01:  I guess my follow up question to that would be okay, well, let's say everything you do on the site is no technically legal. And you say you don't want to make any moral judgments. I mean, you know, a lot of people will criticize you for that. But if it's not something you'll, you'll, you know, you'll move on, there's not much conversation to get there. The next question, I guess, would be, I know, there is sort of a culture on the site of, you know, don't touch the poo or whatever. It's like, don't interact with the cows. But obviously,  when you post someone's personal information that's gonna happen right in any in any scenario and people would argue that the difference between a site like yours and a site like twitter which like doxing does happen on twitter like dream got doxed to like hundreds of thousands of people people were liking it like like very normal average people were like liking dreams docs um and meanwhile then a bunch of the same people probably go after kiwi farms yeah yeah we're all guilty right  yeah but but i guess i guess the the question is like okay kiwi farms though its purpose is as an aggregate for you know documenting these people um including personal information and it sort of serves as like if you were someone who was looking to go and swat a bunch of people like kiwi farmers would be a decent reference to go and like find other personal info and just well that's that's the big issue all the swatting um they are going after people either on the forum intentionally to try and create this problem


0:31:59
Unknown_04:  uh so yeah it is it is but even then like for instance with keffels keffels knows this and lies that they were not docks on the kiwi farms to begin with they were docks by a different site i guess it's not kosher to say which site um and this site uh i think specifically out of the site listed all their you know their family information and stuff too so this happened before the kiwi farms but so in this specific instance keffels didn't even give a that they got dogs that was the greatest thing ever they made a hundred thousand dollars getting docks  um and getting swatted by these other people but they still blame the kiwi farms because that's the target they want to go after uh with marjorie marjorie taylor green we had no thread on marjorie taylor green marjorie taylor green in in some cases people get swatted without even being uh docs because guess who has all your docs the police so you can just take someone's information lie about what they're doing and then the police will investigate it issue subpoenas to get your personal information if you call the police and say marjorie taylor green did this and they're going to know who that is you'll find her


0:33:25
Unknown_01:  Yeah, exactly.


Unknown_04: So that's also a point of frustration is that, yeah, like people can do bad things with information, but that argument has been done to death. People can do bad things with the internet in general. People can do bad things with encryption. The fact that people can do bad things with something good does not mean that something good is inherently bad.


Unknown_01:  Right, and I guess the other thing that people would probably would probably bring up in regards to the forum is that there seems to be a culture of. I guess I guess transphobia you'd probably call it like there's just a lot of like anytime anytime i've talked about couples and stuff like i'm someone who's been critical of couples but also. Like I you know i'm respective of her pronouns I know you don't like but i'm respective of that.  And every time I do that, everyone on the forum is like, oh, don't you mean him? Don't you mean... Fuck, what's her dead name?


0:33:59
Unknown_01: Lucas. Don't you mean Lucas?


Unknown_04: Less than she? Or greater than she?


Unknown_01: Every single time that I mention her, people say that, and it's like...  I think that'll be one of the main criticisms you will have is that it's like sort of a hateful community in that way. I guess my question would be like, how would you, how would you respond to that? How would you characterize that? Is that just like part, like a byproduct of being so vilified by the internet and like being the only place. It's a byproduct of the fact that nobody can say that shit anywhere else.


0:34:36
Unknown_04:  You want to know why the forum has 4,000 people on midday? It's because they have nowhere else to go. People have thoroughly banned any of this conversation anywhere. Any sort of hospitable place that might have counter views and good ones to say, like, I'm trans and I don't molest any children. Those places have so thoroughly banned any kind of dissenting opinion that there is no way for these conversations to actually play out.  So people have to, if they want to be critical, gender critical at all, quote unquote, gender critical at all, they have to come. There are women who are completely normal soccer moms who are just regular Karens who are concerned about their own children that post on the Kiwi farms, even though they don't like the racism, they don't like the, you know, explicit transphobia with the go kill yourself stuff. They don't like that, but they have no other options because the internet has been so thoroughly sterilized by the controlling powers to be explicitly pro-trans.  So if you want to blame the Kiwi Farms for being so acidic, then you should be angry at the fact that people have silenced any sort of actual discussion anywhere, be it Twitter or Twitch or YouTube or whatever the fuck. All of these places are so censorious that you have driven millions of people a month to my site because I hold a monopoly on something that should be a human right.


0:35:19
Unknown_01:  Right, and I guess the response that Keppel, I'm imagining if I put myself in Keppel's shoes, I don't think she believes in freedom of speech at all, so her response would probably be like, well, if you don't want to be vilified, then you shouldn't be transphobic, right? That would be her response.  so yeah i mean there's probably no no wiggle room there yeah and that's i don't even know why like i was actually going to ask why do you even want to talk to this person like in your audience i don't think keffels is going to change anybody's mind and in their audience i don't think keffel anybody's mind is going to change nobody's going to be like wow this turkey i mean i think it would be i think it would be good content you know and at the end of the day that's what i'm you know in the in the mode to deliver i'm not i'm not someone who uh you know obviously i have my own opinions and stuff about everything but at the end of the day like  my ultimate goal is to make the best content possible and if i think keppel is coming on my stream would probably be interesting i mean i guarantee if i if i said like i'm going to talk to keppel people will be so excited i was supposed to talk to uh you know who sneeko is vaguely i'm supposed to talk to him he's like a red pill dude or whatever and then he ended up like backing out and like never getting back to me he he got a big league to me to talk to destiny and then he didn't talk to him so i got cocked but  um people were excited to see that kind of interaction like people like to see debates like to see blood sports and I don't want to have like work on interaction with keffels like honestly you just have to remember that like there is it is just content it's like it's like team sports this is like nobody plays sports anymore because sports suck and you have to kneel and give thanks to BLM and trans people every time and then if you're a woman your skull kit's cracked open and you feel helpless because your opponent is biologically a man


0:36:57
Unknown_04:  Nobody watches sports anymore. Instead, they go to Twitch and watch fat-necked beards yell at each other about socialism. If the Soviet Union or the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic had it best. That is the modern-day sports team. Because nobody listens to this shit and goes, hmm, this guy makes some salient points about the free market capitalist system. It's more like, yeah, I love my boy Voush. Woo!  I mean, I mean, I mean, that's the thing at the end of the day, like people say whatever they want about me, but you know, I mean, people, people can be critical of you for this.


Unknown_01: That's that's like, that's totally fine. But my, my ultimate goal is to make the best content possible in like whatever way that is.  As long as it's not destructive to my life and other people's lives. If I can do that, then that's a win for me. I want it to be fun. I want it to be interesting. Above all else, we have this conversation and whatever. I have goals with it. I have personal wants. At the end of the day, all that stuff is kind of just my own interest. And the interest that I have for everyone else is just that they enjoy the content one way or the other, you know?  And, um, that would be the goal with talking to couples. And, uh, I mean, frankly, I mean, she, you know, she reached out specifically to talk to me and I feel like, well, well, well, well, the reason why is because I did a video about her and she, she, she thinks that she can correct the record in some way. And I figure, you know what I mean? I did, I did shit talker. I may as well like getting a call there and hear a piece. You know what I mean? I feel like, I feel like I owe her that.


0:38:34
Unknown_04:  I was going to say it's because they're completely irrelevant because they failed to take down my site and that's all they had going for them. Their entire life, their entire career.


Unknown_01: The thing is, her YouTube channel is very irrelevant. The Twitter is still doing okay. And her YouTube channel is slowly getting some level of traction.  that's um that's with all the youtube ship all the the algorithm manipulation that gets a few thousand views a video it's very impressive i wish i had that kind of support it takes that much top-down manipulation to get any kind of traction to hear what do you mean manipulation you don't think that there's people on youtube actively manipulating the algorithm for the most um for the most um


0:39:23
Unknown_04:  How do I want to frame it? Most politically corrective, progressive voices. I think that YouTube, honestly, in my experience, YouTube themselves are way less political than people think they are.


Unknown_01: I think they bow to advertisers very easily, and I think you can criticize them for that, but ultimately their interest is in making the most money possible.  that's the interest of most companies and so i think i i you know i don't think youtube particularly promotes keffels i think that youtube promotes stuff keffels openly brags about having people in youtube having people in the media having people in twitter okay i know i know twitter i know the media twitter's corrupt the media is corrupt but youtube really is that real yeah absolutely  To be honest, I almost just don't believe that.


0:40:05
Unknown_04: DeCathlis is friends with the fucking dude that spilled government documents.  liz fong jones is capable of calling up people who run tier one isp female who stole government documents yes the woman who still covered dog is josh but uh he was a man when he stole the documents i don't know um okay but um yeah i know capital's friends with them but they don't work for youtube right i guess i guess i'm just dubious of the idea that like youtube specifically is pushing capitals because even if they were


0:40:39
Unknown_01:  even if they were um doing that like like like let's say they are like they should be seeing more success than they are now yeah i think nobody wants to watch a boring troglodyte drone on about kiwi farms and how their prostate orgasms so hard nobody alive they're not really talking about kiwi farms anymore the last video i watched was about how intense his prostate organs orgasms were  Nobody. That's not Kiwi Farms, though. What I'm saying is they're actually trying to become more like couples. Yeah, they're trying to branch out by talking about prostate orgasms and it doesn't work in the prostate orgasms. Not just that. She's talking about like Andrew Tate and whatever else. Who the fuck wants to hear a Canadian communist talk about Andrew?


Unknown_04: Do you think that there's do you honestly think that this channel would have any chance of having the level of success that yours does unless there was people pushing for it? You can watch the streams on  And they have like 200 viewers.


Unknown_01: She doesn't have the level of success I have. I get, you know, a million views a video. Yeah.


0:41:34
Unknown_04: Because you, like you said, your focus is on entertaining content. Do you think Kefla tries to make entertaining content? Have you ever seen them talk? I think she's trying. I think she's not good at it.


Unknown_01: I think she's definitely trying.


Unknown_04:  This channel would have 50 views unless they had media people and people in YouTube giving them all the tips to get the most algorithm juice. Dude, when I open fucking YouTube homepage, there is a shelf, a quote unquote shelf they call it, that says, check out these hot black trans creators every fucking time. And every fucking time I see this shit, I say, no, I don't care. I'll never care.  You'll never get me to watch one of these black trans creators. And then I go, actually, before I close out of it, I go through and I manually on every single video say, don't recommend this channel.


0:42:08
Unknown_00: And I do that every time.


Unknown_04: And it still comes back and I still close it. And look, this is the kind of shit that they do to keep these things floating when nobody fucking cares.


Unknown_01:  Well, the thing, the thing about that is like, that's just side of the times with end of the day. Like, you know, even, even those videos you're clicking on, they probably don't have a lot of views and couples. I mean, despite them, you know, despite, okay, let's say they are pushing her, right? It's not really working anyway. Cause the end of the day, people still have to like the content. It has to get watched.


0:42:42
Unknown_03: No, I disagree.


Unknown_01: I completely disagree.


Unknown_03: You think that dude, they try to give, um,


Unknown_03:  That was the black guy. Who's a cock that punched the other dude Will Smith they gave him like a YouTube channel and they try to ask for turban and that's Will Smith one of the most successful black actors in American history Still has a dead-ass YouTube channel regardless of how hard they push it you cannot try and get this cut like they can try


Unknown_04:  That's what I'm saying.


0:43:14
Unknown_01: You have to make good content at the end of the day. You have to make good content.


Unknown_04: I don't follow it closely. The last video I watched was literally a video about how intense his prostate orgasms were.


Unknown_01: I didn't watch that video. I avoided it because I don't want to hear about that stuff. More power. I'm going to correct every time. I'm going to correct you. I'm the libtard of this stream. I'm going to be libtarding this shit up.  You can do you. I do appreciate you avoiding the slurs. That's very courteous to me.


0:43:49
Unknown_01: Where are you in Minecraft, Josh? Where are you, buddy?


Unknown_04: I'm in my pit. I'm digging a hole. This is what I do every game. I build a hole down to the earth. I will find my people.


Unknown_01: You just go down there with the rats or whatever? Is that a metaphor for your life?


Unknown_04: No. I'm just digging a hole.


Unknown_01: I'm a dwarf and I'm digging a hole. Crawling down with the cretins.


Unknown_01:  They want a floor. It's a little, a little bougie. I think it's just where I put it a little bougie. All right, here we go. We're going to go down to the bottom.


0:44:22
Unknown_01: So I'll help you. Okay. We're in this together.


Unknown_02: Okay.


Unknown_01: This is Americana working together to solve a problem.


Unknown_04:  I don't know if Kefla will want to talk to you after, uh, after talking to you.


Unknown_01: I think, I think probably not, but if she still wants to, I'll have the conversation. I mean, I mean, the thing, the thing about it is like, I would understand, like, I think it would be, you know, Kefla will do whatever she wants. I think she's kind of out there in terms of how she acts, but, um, I would understand if she didn't want to talk to me after this, if I was like talking to you about how I hate trans people. But the thing about, the thing about it is like, no, I'm totally interested. Have you ever seen that video of Kefla's talking to Stardust?  Yeah, I have.


0:44:54
Unknown_01: That's what I'm saying.


Unknown_01: That's probably the reaction I'm going to get, but I don't know that.


Unknown_04: That's a stupid cunt turkey, Tom. Oh my god. You have to denounce Kiwi Farm any time it's brought up.


Unknown_04: Actually, you know what? That might not apply to you because you're not a woman. I think that kind of unique vitriol is reserved for people who are born a woman.


Unknown_01:  well i think she's probably gonna her and her fans are gonna call me either like a crypto fascist or a centrist and the thing about being called a centrist is they see that as an insult but like i'm kind of okay with being called a centrist because uh the average person the left right dichotomy is complete fiction we have entered a stage in our society where there are insane people and there's everybody else and everyone else has to figure it figure out some sort of


0:45:48
Unknown_04:  You know, you have that political compass quadrant as to find a cross quadrant alignment alliance.


Unknown_01: I'm not necessarily talking about like when I say centrist, I don't mean politics. I mean more like, oh, like I said, I didn't mention the far right thing. But what I mean more is that like my take on Kiwi Farms and everything is not like one way or the other. Totally. Like even with capitals, like I'd say I'm more sympathetic to her than a lot of the people in my audience.


Unknown_01: And I'm definitely more sympathetic to her than than you are.  well because because i try to understand both sides i'm like boogie okay okay explain this to me  Okay, let's say I'm Kefels, okay? Let's say I'm Kefels. I'm someone who's a streamer. You know, you have to kind of divorce it from the stuff going after Destiny, but she feels that her identity... You have to divorce it from its actual motivation to make any sense of it other than the fact that Kefels is a fucking grifter. Okay, but the thing is, the thing about people is people don't totally make sense. They're always hypocritical in some way. No, people are very easy.


0:46:25
Unknown_04: You'll be surprised at how obvious a human being is.


Unknown_04:  Okay.


Unknown_01: Am I obvious, Josh?


Unknown_04:  Think you're young and I think you I think you're a secret optimist you try to be like I'm and I listen to like remixes of Green Day Hey, I don't listen to Green Day. What was that song that was remixed? It was like the was a The other one the the three miles or something the red one. Look I should know these bands because they were It was like a remix of the the three I was playing yeah like three stripes or something


0:47:10
Unknown_01:  Yeah, I was playing The Fray as the band, and it was a Day to Remember cover of The Fray.


Unknown_00: Okay.


Unknown_01: Yeah.


Unknown_00: But the thing is, I am kind of a doomer in, like, as far as the state of the internet.


Unknown_01: I'm an optimist in my personal life because, like, there are things I want to do in, like, you know, family, girlfriends, stuff like that.


Unknown_04:  When you say the state of the internet, though, it's everything. Everything is poisoned by this kind of fucking... I don't know if you're in college or whatever, but I'm sure if you're in college... I dropped out. That's why you're a crypto-fascist now, because you didn't go and you didn't get the pause load in your mouth. You've been saved by your own lack of... What's the word? Of ambition.


0:47:52
Unknown_01: Well, the thing about college is I was actually going to be a journalist, which is funny.  But it just kind of aligned with my life. Hey, so was Ethan Ralph.


Unknown_01: Yeah, hopefully I don't end up where he is, though. I'm going to try not. Okay, can you explain, what's the shit with...  Is she leaked porn of him in may?


Unknown_04: No, it was are you talking about like the recent stuff?


Unknown_01: I just i've seen this picture. That's obviously like sucking dick. It's no it's not she's eating a taco some fucking retards In a discord group found this video of her eating a taco and cut it out to try and cause drama It's that's all kayfabe.


0:48:36
Unknown_04: You know one of those people what the hell would look i'd be the I would be the first one to epically dunk on may for having revenge porn over out there. Um


Unknown_01:  why is why is the frame like above her like he was filming above her watching it it could be like when digibro and her did videos together she was she you know she's like the only girl who's ever watched an anime ever so she's got special girl attention so it could be haha i'm gonna eat a taco gone sexual


Unknown_04:  You know, that kind of thing.


Unknown_01: I didn't watch the video.


Unknown_04: I'm assuming that's what it is.


Unknown_01: Yeah, it's just OK. So, so, so I got kind of attracted with Keffels. I try to see the sympathy. It's like if I'm if I'm anyone, right, if I'm Keffels, if I'm someone else, if I, you know, regardless of whether or not, you know, the  cam girl stuff is like revenge porn right let's say it was it is public info like if i was you know in her position i probably would still want that shit not out there like i would be embarrassed as hell about it i would be doing you know things in my power to try to get that removed obviously because i'm me first of all i'd never do cam girl cam guy stuff whatever but second of all i understand that like things on the internet are forever you can't erase things like that but um you know from her position it's like she's going to do everything in her power to get rid of that because it doesn't stand to benefit her her  recent political twitch career you can criticize her all you want for that i mean and that's totally fair but from her perspective like that's the way she sees it it's like she wants to remove that stuff she just wants to be out there she wants to lie about it etc you know yeah i mean but like


0:49:15
Unknown_04:  I mean when you okay wow that's that's a bit of a take um let's let's unpack this real quick let's unpack it let's unpack this your your position here there is a there's a quote by a Prussian philosopher Carl Schmitt who says that there is no such thing as the political  There is simply friend and foe. In politics, you have your friends and you have your foes. That's why the communist USSR can ally with Great Britain to destroy fascism.


0:50:16
Unknown_04: That's why while you have Italian fascism and you have national socialism in Germany, completely different things. Most people don't know that because history doesn't teach them that. But they found uncommon alliances in interest.  my point is is that what you're saying is keffel's position is that any anything goes because it would benefit me in that regard and that is i think that's uh that's probably vosh's position as well yeah yeah because they're i mean they're communists but


0:50:58
Unknown_01:  I mean, it's not just a communist thing. I mean, probably someone like, let's say, Nick Fuentes. He probably feels the same way about the site, right? Yeah, he does.


Unknown_04: He does. Absolutely. That's why people... That's why I think a lot of people are getting swatted, because it hurts the site, and the site has a lot of things on Nick Fuentes, too. That's just my opinion. I have no evidence for that, but that's what I believe.


Unknown_04: That sort of position...


Unknown_04:  Man would almost be admirable if it wasn't directed at a fucking gossip forum the fact is is that this this total war shit where it's like I'm gonna I will literally do like for instance Liz Fong Jones one of keffels his old friends they've split ways because they're both too crazy to talk to each other and keep an alliance going but Liz Fong Jones is trying to get my internet IP resource allocations revoked by APNIC and  APNIC is a company out of Australia.


0:51:48
Unknown_01: Can you explain some of that? I will absolutely explain this.


Unknown_04: I have IP addresses. I get my IP addresses from what's called a regional internet registry, an RIR. There are five of these. The one that I have my IPs from is in Australia. Australia, the RIR there, APNIC, services all of Asia and Oceania, so Australia, but also China. So Liz Fong-Jones is trying to get my resources revoked in the same region that China exists.  because they want the kiwi farms taken down not realizing or perhaps do realizing because they are chinese that once they accomplish this there will be nothing stopping china from making takedown requests for internet resource allocations and this has never happened before no ip address has ever been revoked because people didn't like the content on the website that has literally never happened before and they're trying to make it happen for the first time in spite of the kiwi farms if this was like  for instance the cloudflare took us down right wow that was a great victory for them  There are websites that host ISIS decapitations and setting people on fire. There's a website dedicated to torturing baby monkeys. Right now, if you want to go watch a baby monkey, a live baby monkey get a hole drilled in its fucking head by absolute psychopaths, there's a website for that. It's hosted by Cloudway.


0:52:42
Unknown_01: Yeah, this is something I was going to bring up, actually, because I'm glad you mentioned it. Because, I mean, everyone in my audience probably knows about this because I did a video about the monkey hate stuff. But even YouTube is hosting that stuff right now.  You know, you know cloud players not gonna drop you if these people were like Total War site like we tolerate there's a group of people who are actually fucking nuts out there called Who are like all Chris Hansen imitators and they all want to be like the next Chris Hansen and we tolerate them even though they're Fucking crazy and they often go after and do completely illegal and psychotic things after these people we tolerate them more because they have this like Scorch or policy on pedophiles and if it was anybody else that they were going after anybody else they would just be


0:53:43
Unknown_04:  keffels they would be fucking lunatics well here's the thing with um here's the thing with your site i guess i would want to question is like you say you said you didn't want to make a moral judgments on the content of the site would you remove like monkey hate stuff if people were making a like let's say for some reason the monkey haters decided kiwi farms is a good place to make our own thread to talk about how we hate well i don't get um  Like for instance with like the zoo status stuff when there was the big leaks that got Carol the wolf and his buddies who were Fucking dogs and there was one guy in particular who was fucking a dog to death with a wooden stake covered in ants That is now he was Cuban and we found out where he was and now nobody nobody knows what happens to him The government got him and that's the last thing one's heard of it So whatever happens to people who fuck dogs to death in Cuba has happened that guy but yeah, we allowed hosting that because  it's it's it i mean it's like a historical document we have photos of the holocaust should we like delete photos of the holocaust because we don't like the holocaust what at some point we have to make a judgment call that yes we're going to allow bad things to to proliferate um and we do in regards to certain companies you're going to allow them to to put


0:54:50
Unknown_01:  but is that is that letting them proliferate or is that for documentation purposes because one of the strongest arguments i've seen for the site is that you guys are dedicated to documenting everything and it's important to have archives and documents especially you know in an age when uh you know everything can be documented more easily than ever before right with the internet like you know some people feel a responsibility to keep that history somewhere


Unknown_04:  Ultimately, it's a site for talking about people. So there are certain rules that I have in place in regards to keeping the community focused on talking about people. I don't allow on the Kiwi farms. I do not allow outside of very specific contexts as lollicon or any kind of animal abuse. Like in the Russian war thread, we have videos of like Russians and Ukrainians that have been casualties of the war. Yeah.  it is it is sort of like a judgment call but it's not for the morality of the image itself it's that i don't want these fucking people on my website it's it's more of a it's definitely more of a community thing than it is a uh than it is simply the nature of the image itself


0:55:58
Unknown_01:  Someone in chat said, uh, archive monkey murder? That makes no sense. Well, the only way to get those people caught is if you have, like, the evidence of them abusing an animal in the first place, right? And we have people going to jail in Indonesia because the monkeys that they torture all come from Southeast Asia.


Unknown_04: So it's important when, for instance, when you want to go after child pornography, when you want to go after animal abuse, you have to find the people actually doing it. You can't just find the people posting it online. You have to find the people who are actually hurting kids, hurting monkeys, and you have to take them away from society.  And you have to make their efforts unprofitable.


Unknown_01: Okay. And that is, I mean, one of the things, obviously, when I talk about Kiwi farms, usually  site always comes up in one way or another if we're talking about animal abuse if we're talking about um like zoo files um some kind of internet pedophile usually the site comes up because it seems to be the only place that uh you know documents all all these things well um yes i guess and that's sort of the draw and the youtubers that do it get their info from kiwi farms yeah and they don't mention it because they can't mention it without getting backlash for mentioning it and then even though like


0:56:30
Unknown_04:  when all these tumblrites who hate the kiwi farms when it comes time to post receipts about their favorite person who just got caught grooming you know a 15 year old they break their rule they go to the site and they talk about the stuff they see on the site but they don't talk about where it comes from and stuff it's just like i know i know what they do well i guess that's the thing with every every youtuber it's like i feel like


0:57:20
Unknown_01:  um i get why people don't want to talk about kiwi farms at all but um the reason why i credit this site is because it's like well i did get my info there like at the end of the day probably with some of the research i've gotten there it's literally made me like tens of thousands of dollars a month like i have i feel like i have some obligation to at least hear your side talk to the guy who runs the site yeah and even if i don't agree with it and i'm going to be correcting you on the pronouns every five minutes um i feel like i should i don't know i feel some obligation to to speak to you in some way


Unknown_04:  And the frustrating thing, like, when you are in my position, it's sort of important to try and keep a level head about certain things. And one of those things is to try and rein in any kind of envy. Because it is frustrating. Like, I know for a fact, based off the numbers that I had available to me when I was allowed to have


Unknown_04:  like AdSense and stuff, because there was a point where I was able to have AdSense. If the Kiwi Farms was allowed to be monetized like a normal website, I would probably make in the realm of $20,000 a month easy just from the site. And it's like all of my issues, all the struggle that I go through would be alleviated so much if I could just have what everybody else had.


0:58:26
Unknown_04: So even $20,000, like that's what I make in an off month.


Unknown_01: Like that's like a lot. Even when you don't put out videos and shit.  No, I mean, I'm always putting out videos. What I'm saying is like, like my best month last year was 80,000. That's pretty good. I hope it's like, if you're in your position, I would be like, holy shit. Have you just, have you like contacted like financial people to like, if I do, um,


Unknown_04:  if you look for financial help you should be investing the money in a way that like benefits you but you should look into what's called a fiduciary they are people who are legally obligated to have your financial interests in mind if you talk to someone who's just a quote-unquote financial expert they often work for a company and try to sell you that product  so if you're gonna like try and protect your money you should look for what's called a fiduciary because those people are legally obligated to to represent your financial interest yeah and not i have a i have a very close family member who is uh he he has like kind of a job so he said he should help me out a little bit um so yeah i talked to him a little bit but yeah i mean


0:59:14
Unknown_01:  yeah the thing is i mean for you um i guess my question would be like other other ways you could monetize the site i'm sure it's something you've thought about um i i don't want to talk too much about the finances of the site because they they more than anything else they go after that because obviously bitcoin is a super important and it's very frustrating to see how much bitcoin gets as like like people automatically associate it with like a scam or whatever


Unknown_04:  Bitcoin has been incredibly important to the site staying up because it's effectively the only way that I'm allowed to collect money these days.


1:00:10
Unknown_01:  okay have you thought about like uh like i'm trying to think like other ways you could potentially bring in some revenue i mean obviously ads are out of the question for you right but um the the main issue is that so here's the 4chan has ads 4chan is very censored 4chan does not allow docs if you try to post for instance about isabella yonka on 4chan you will immediately be banned you'll be permanently banned from 4chan if you post about isabella yonka


Unknown_01:  Yeah. Someone's trying to take down my video about her right now, repeatedly, constantly.


Unknown_04: Yeah, it's a group that they pay money for. I get emails from them constantly. I get privacy complaints via Google. I think that the board may be de-indexed. But Daddy's...  Isabel Yonka, the little girl who decided to murder hamsters and encourage Chris to fuck his mom. That little girl is the daughter of a CIA agent, retired contractor working for the CIA. And if you Google Yonka Cloudflare, you'll find a video of Matthew Prince sitting next to the person whose daughter boiled hamsters alive and spoke to Chris Chan months before Cloudflare kicked us off of...  their service. And I'm sure that there's no coincidence between the CIA agent sitting next to the CEO of Cloudflare, Matthew Prince, and talking about it.


1:01:15
Unknown_01: Yeah, that would be crazy, Josh. Don't be conspiratorial.


Unknown_01: But yeah, I mean, I've been getting on my Yankee video. Is it Yankee or Yankee? I mean, that's the real. I'm pretty sure. Is that Polish or something?


Unknown_04: German, for sure.


Unknown_01:  Oh, okay. Imagine being German. I know.


Unknown_04: That's the worst.


Unknown_04: Every time I see a German, I get freaked out. A shiver goes up my spine.


1:01:46
Unknown_01: I actually do, because I hate their accent.


Unknown_01: Oh, yeah.


Unknown_01: But I have to respect them somehow, because I have a very douchey taste in cars, and I love German cars. You ever see these Pagetes running around in their BMWs? That's basically me. Are you a Pagete?


Unknown_01:  no no no but i i like their taste in cars which is like bmw and audi um anyhow so the thing about that is i keep getting a privacy complaint to my video the first one they sent was a long time ago and i just ignored it and nothing happened and then i got another one and it was so the video was like 28 minutes and 17 seconds long it's like a 20 25 28 minute long video about isabella um or  Or sorry, yeah, it's like 23 minutes long. And it's like, it's got like 2 million views. And it's like the most popular, like if you search up Isabella Janky, like that's the first result, like it's going to come up. And so...  I keep getting privacy complaints. The first one was for 30 seconds longer than the actual length of the video, which is really weird. They didn't properly timestamp it. When you submit a privacy complaint, you have to submit, here's the portion of the video I want cut out from YouTube. And that's the portion that the YouTube rep will review to see if it violates your privacy. They timestamp more than the length of the video.  um which is funny and then so that time i sent an email to youtube and i literally explained like who isabella janky is and i was like this is all public information like i didn't include her address or anything like everything in this is like public info she herself i know what you're talking about there's this guy they they definitely are paying these quote-unquote seo experts to help clean up her results so that she has some semblance of a life she should not be employed by anyone as far as like people should be completely blacklisted and not allowed anywhere near any kind of respectable institution


1:03:07
Unknown_04:  uh hamster murderer mother encouraging isabelle yanka should be basically excised from but she is trying she is trying very hard probably will succeed because of people who say doxing is bad so we have to make sure that everyone has total control over their their um their personal information even if they boil hamsters alive and encourage retarded people to their moms we have to be able to make sure people can clean that up  Copyright information.


Unknown_00: Wait, hold up.


Unknown_04: Let me read this. Take down expert from takedownexpert3 at gmail.com to legal at kiwifirms.net. Removal of copyright and defaming content. Signature, Saghir Ahmad. Content in question. Forums slash isabellelorletayanka.117. Description. I am writing this to let you know that I am authorized to file a legal lawsuit in court against Creeper.


1:04:07
Unknown_04:  Yo, what'd you just do? I almost got blowed up.


Unknown_01: Did you blow up the house or something?


Unknown_04: No, I blew up a hole in the ground.


Unknown_01: Oh, what the f- It fucked up the- Okay, it actually didn't really fuck up the path.


Unknown_04:  yeah i got out of the way okay all right i didn't go ak uh okay website for defaming my client uh isabella yonka by sharing false and baseless allegations the allegations include sexual assault money theft and many defamatory accusations without providing any proper evidence which is a clear violation of the dmca act


1:05:00
Unknown_04:  which if you don't know, the DMCA Act. I'm pretty sure the A in the DMCA is Act. So it's the Digital Millennium Copyright Act Act specifically excludes any sort of defamation on the internet. And by defamation, they mean things they don't like being public.  the article also sharing private informations of my client by sharing his I guess Isabella is now a transgender uh address and place of work which is causing deep concern to my client and his whole family so this is probably Mr yanka uh former CIA agent who sits next to Matthew Prince on a couch and talks about how things need to be censored by Cloudflare more often  Therefore, I request immediate removal of this defamatory article from your website. I have also reported to the hosting provider of this website. I am expecting quick action very soon. Otherwise, I reserve my right to file a defamatory lawsuit in court. Regards, Zakir Ahmad.


1:05:40
Unknown_01:  yeah i mean secure i like that the email too was like take down expert like they just use their normal work this googled how to take down from from gmail and found uh this email them ask them i did i literally emailed him tell your client he shouldn't have raised the animal murderer and he's a psycho actually that's not the email that i was thinking of i um i sent one saying how much did they pay you for this just wondering and he didn't reply


1:06:26
Unknown_04:  Reply to neither of those emails.


Unknown_01: Damn.


Unknown_01: Well, I guess my question for that would be, how do you even... You must get a lot of legal complaints, I assume. Is the site being sued right now?


Unknown_04: By two different people.


Unknown_01: How do you deal with that? You just deal with the lawyer and...


Unknown_04:  Hire a fucking attorney. It's always a pro se bullshit lawsuit, but I have to answer it in court or they can win a default judgment.


Unknown_04: Pro se litigants, I think if you file a lawsuit pro se and lose, you should be strung up by your thumbs out of a fucking window until I'm satisfied by hearing you scream. I think that should be the punishment. I can't deprive you of your right to represent yourself.  but there should be some sort of dissuasive option that I have when you lose because The thing is the united states is the only country in the entire world where if you sue somebody and lose You bury your own costs. So here's a fun tip for all you people out there right now You can file bullshit lawsuits all day long And if you lose like and you don't have to hire an attorney You can just sign yourself and and if you sue a company fun fact people can't represent their own companies by themselves even if  You are the only member of an LLC. So you find like let's say that your landlord owns an LLC and you want to sue your landlord. You can file pro se against your landlord's LLC and then they can't even represent themselves in court because they're not a lawyer and therefore they cannot represent something that's not themselves, including their own company.  so our court system is completely broken we we i can't like really stress enough how broken is that these and it's no sane person ever becomes pro se like this is an option like basically created so that lunatics can waste the time of apps and money of absolutely everyone and basically ruin an otherwise legitimate business through court cost alone  so you either have to be a charitable organization that can find you know um pros like pro bono uh help for what you're doing or you have to eat and thankfully i i managed to find lawyers who work very very cheaply um for the amount of time they have to invest in dealing with this


1:08:15
Unknown_01:  Yeah. Yeah. The whole, uh, I can just imagine like I've only had one legal issue and it hasn't been YouTube related. I was just like going too fast or whatever, but it was a hire. No, I got a, I got a criminal charge for criminal speeding. Uh, cause I was going rather fast, but,  I had to hire a lawyer and the entire time it was just like hanging over my head for like months, like the entire process. And so I can only imagine like being sued by someone when you're trying to run a website would probably make me shit my pants. I recently even, I canceled a video I was gonna do about, you know who Billy Mitchell is?


1:09:06
Unknown_04:  Vaguely more.


Unknown_01: He's like the I'll explain to chat. He's this video game dude from the 80s or whatever.


Unknown_04: Oh, the fucking the the the Donkey Kong wizard who sues when people say he didn't win that fucking come back. Fucking that guy. That's a prime example. Chat, you have to remember that we can't just handle things in court. People like him need to be hung out a fucking window by their thumbs until they're satisfied that the damage they're causing people over their fuck a Donkey Kong competent. Nobody gives a fuck. Billy Mitchell.


Unknown_01:  Well, that's the thing. You say nobody gives a fuck, but he will sue you for $1 million. I have some money, but I don't have a million dollars if I were to lose. And even if I were to win, that's like three years of my life that is gone. First of all, being sued by him and hopefully countersuing him.


1:09:40
Unknown_04:  Yeah, it's fucking nauseating. These people disgust me. They literally disgust me. People like Calfold, Billy Mitchell, and all these retards who sue over absolutely nothing. They have no claim to actually base... Has Calfold sued anyone?


Unknown_03: They threatened to. I think that they talked to a lawyer and realized that it would cost $75,000 to go to court, and they would probably lose because there's no actual thing to say that wasn't worth it.


1:10:16
Unknown_04: But, yeah.


Unknown_01: I know Destiny was going to sue her, but decided not to. What a bitch. I hate that.


Unknown_04: Destiny's such a...


Unknown_01:  I mean, okay, the thing about him is, I think you have to understand from his point of view, it's like, if she's not actively going after him, if the slander or whatever has stopped, and maybe he realized that these mainstream articles, which his main contention seemed to be that there were a lot of mainstream articles that were citing the Keppel stuff, but if those people aren't talking about him, then it's like,  Is it worth taking up, like, years of his life to, like... It's not about the money.


Unknown_04: It's about sending a message. When people are... Well, for him, it is about time and money.


1:10:48
Unknown_01: It's about time and money.


Unknown_04: Well, okay. Then, you know what? He can spend his entire fucking life on his knees. He can sell his wife to whoever the fuck is the highest bidder. He can make his life as min-max about money and efficiency, but...  He has the opportunity he has a legitimate position here to set precedent and to punish people for hurting people basically and he's going to decide not to because he's just like I would rather just sit on my ass and play fucking video games every day and occasionally debate some fucking retard about Bullshit that nobody fucking cares about  That he has no position.


1:11:24
Unknown_01: That is his decision. That's what he wants to do. Well, it's pathetic.


Unknown_04: Destiny sometimes comes out and does things that I find very admirable. And then I try to like him. I really do. I've tried listening to him. I've tried talking to him. And it's just like...  This is a guy who has no backbone. This man should be bullied. He's a little manlet. He's in a little world. And as long as he has pornography and food and shelter, he will be very happy to just sit around and suck dick his entire life.


1:11:59
Unknown_04: Have you guys ever talked? I've tried... He...  I've sent him emails. The first email contact I ever had was I someone told me that he was a white supremacist So I joined his discord server I was immediately banned by someone with a communist avatar and I you know And I'm like what the fuck is with this mod and he said ha ha bro epic means so funny ha ha like almost word-for-word that  And then I tried to message him later on saying, because the site was completely down. I said I was never going to talk to him, but the site was completely down. I said, fuck it. You know, I don't have to worry about the site right now. So do you want to talk? And he never replied because at that time he was very busy entertaining a pedophile that he had as his best friend. So I couldn't fit into his dick sucking contest to appease this pedophile enough to have a conversation with. Thankfully, you're not intertwined with such complexities in scheduling.


1:12:31
Unknown_01:  Courtney in chat says, Destiny's subreddit is cucked. Josh is right about that. I don't know. I'd argue that Destiny does. He holds his convictions better than pretty much most people online. What are his convictions?


1:13:04
Unknown_01: I mean, he's a libtard. But he's had huge falling outs with people like Hasan and Bosh over disagreements. I mean, he's lost his Twitch because of his stance on the trans stuff. You know what I mean? That's why I try to like him. He has a lot of opinions.


Unknown_04:  He's just a retard. I've tried my best, but... I think if you guys talked, okay, you'd be best friends.


Unknown_01: In no time, you'd be hanging out. It'll be just like 10 years ago when you guys used to play StarCraft, okay? It'll be the same. Oh, yeah.


Unknown_04: I miss our days playing the toss and tossing the zerg together. We were the best zerg talkers.


1:13:38
Unknown_01: One of the more frustrating things for me about Kefla's was that, like...  uh that one was like something she admitted was a flat-out lie constantly trying to implicate destiny in my affairs by saying that we were bffs tossing zerg together dude they they do the minimum amount of research possible i i i get emails from actual journalists who get paid


Unknown_04:  they get paid a living wage they don't have to like eat shit and like strip on the side to make their money to live they get paid a living wage and they have no fucking idea about anything they talk about and it's just like this is not fair and i just this is proof that we don't live in unjust society because in unjust society people like this would have to be in the streets writing their articles and publishing them for free on some sub stack or whatever the fuck but they get paid by mother jones and they're this stupid


1:14:26
Unknown_01:  i mean they get paid but uh as someone who was gonna go who's going through journalism school and was like meeting people who were journalists and like asking like finding out how much they make like it's they make a living wage but it's not uh you know it's like it's like 35 000 a year good for 40 000 a year they don't just they don't even deserve that they should be on welfare where they live in like connecticut new york like it's not yeah i hope they're miserable and i hope that they suffer through life  They probably are, and that's ultimately why, like, half the reason why I decided not to be, not to go to journalism school was just because, like, I probably would hate myself forever if I was a journalist. Not just because of the work, but, like, if the work sucked, I could live through that if, like, the pay was really good, but the pay is, like, less than, less than acceptable to me. So it's like, no. Fuck no.


Unknown_01: I think I'll be a YouTuber.


Unknown_04:  I mean, yeah, they suck. And the thing is, is that they they're not journalists. The journalist does not exist anymore. The modern journalist is not a journalist. The modern journalist is a corporate pawn that takes narratives from the top down and finds enough glue, enough bullshit to stick together the pieces.  That's it.


1:15:19
Unknown_01: I mean, I would argue that stuff like what I do is journalistic. I wouldn't want to call myself a journalist for the cringe factor alone, but I would say that what some YouTubers do is replace the role of a modern journalist.


Unknown_04: Yeah, of course. That's why the media is failing. That's why nobody watches news. It's because I would much rather pick my mouthpiece. I would much rather see the sources myself. And then you watch CNN, and there's all these clips of CNN saying...  Remember it's like when the Clinton shit came out in the 2016 elections I remember it's illegal lying saying it's illegal for you to download the Clinton emails We do that for you so we can tell you what's in them It's like having people hear shit like that and think yeah I trust this fucking idiot and make I think for people like like let's say my dad's generation who's like Gen X like born and like, you know early 70s It's just kind of like that's the status quo.


1:15:53
Unknown_01: That's just kind of what you trust and  Even someone like him who I guess probably you would say is more conservative, like he trusts Fox News, you know what I mean? And it's just kind of – it's just because that's the status quo. He's been exposed to that for so long. He and the boomers, like Gen X and the boomers, they grew up watching TV. It's just kind of a comfortable thing. It's just kind of how life is. You just kind of implicitly – like even when they distrust the media, they're going to distrust CNN but then trust like Fox. They're going to trust Breitbart or whatever, you know?  There's going to be someone that they turn to. Here's a boomerism to take for all the little kids listening.


1:16:27
Unknown_04: Everybody you talk to, ever, has an agenda. I have an agenda. Turkey Tom has an agenda. Everybody you talk to has a specific point of view and something that they're trying to impress on you with. You should be...  inherently critical of everybody you listen to. And why do I say that? And ask yourself, when you hear something, when you assume something can be true, why do you assume it's true and why are people telling you that? I'm telling you that because I have been utterly betrayed by everybody in the system, in the apparatus that governs us. So I'm trying to sow the seeds of doubt and dissent in the common person, in the childs who play Minecraft, because I need people to grow up not trusting the current power structure.  um but like you know you have all these debates about and now they're trying to like ban people on youtube who say like the moon landing was fake and it's it's like how do you know the moon landing was real really honestly like do you know that the earth is is a is a sphere how do you prove that  There are ways that you can prove for yourself that the earth is round involving taking planes to see where the sunset is and at different altitudes. There are ways to do that. But do you know them? You were just told all these things that you believe and you just accepted them because they came from people that you trust. And you don't actually understand the underlying logic that leads you to that conclusion. It's called a presupposition. And your entire worldview is based on these presuppositions. Everything that you think you know is based off some bullshit, possibly bullshit, complete fabrication that you were told.  years ago that you just accepted this true and I would I and it used it used to It's so frustrating because the most American thing you could be was to hate your government Like that was the thing the US is a free country, but our government is evil And now it's like everyone trusts the science and trust the politicians and trust when you say that people are waking up a little bit though Like in my generation, I think they are.


1:18:42
Unknown_01: Yeah, I like the zoomers I mean your contention with them would probably be that  they're more left-wing instead of right-wing and i think you probably have an issue with that but i would i would argue that it's good either way i mean you know people do distrust the government they distrust the cia they you know they know that the cia killed martin luther king or whatever they know that they killed uh jfk they are waking up not only did the cia kill jfk they killed jfk because


Unknown_04:  He was trying to remove power from the Federal Reserve the Federal Reserve issues all your money. The Federal Reserve is a private organization They claim that their government run that's because the government owns a minority share of the Federal Reserve They're owned by the banks JP Morgan Chase owns most of the Federal Reserve so the fact is is that our entire economy is based around a figment of your imagination a dollar has no actual intrinsic value and it's based off the fact that JP Morgan Chase Prints all the money that they want to and when  jfk wanted to take that and put it back in the hands of the department of treasury so that it is a purely government-run organization and not one that's privately owned in part uh they killed him and then uh the the next guy who came in lyndon b johnson lyndon b johnson has a very famous quote by the way of saying i'll have those n words voting democrat for the next 100 years he passed migration laws which permanently changed the demographics of the united states those n words yes  He said that?


1:19:38
Unknown_00: It's in a biography somewhere.


Unknown_04: He was the vice president of JFK so that when JFK was assassinated, he was automatically president when nobody would have voted for JFK or Lyndon B. Johnson by himself. The point is that they killed him. They undid all his changes to the Federal Reserve and the Department of Treasury, and they put in a guy who altered the demographic makeup of the United States so that one political party would win every single time, and that's exactly what happened.  uh the united states was silently taken over by a com plot of very rich and influential people very powerful people and me saying this is no threat because they don't care they just don't give a fuck it's like they already won effectively in their mind um that's what i'm saying it's like it's kind of over you know  No, it's never over. Because it's a small group of people and a lot of people that they want to rule over. And I don't think... Nothing lasts forever. The Roman Empire lasted for 250 years. The U.S. Empire is going on 250 years now. And it's like...  there has never been a unified government that has lasted for you know there's there's never been a thousand year reich okay it's everything we all moved to serbia i'll come back to the us one day um i'm not gonna say why do you live there i actually don't even know the lord i moved to ukraine because i was so poor because i was so disenfranchised from any kind of financial system that i could only make money through bitcoin and i moved to ukraine because the cost of living is extremely cheap and then i've just kind of stayed in europe ever since


1:21:33
Unknown_01:  If I had to flee anywhere, it would be Bulgaria because my mom is from there, so I'd have to go there.


Unknown_04: Bulgaria is very nice. Sofia is a beautiful city. It's in the EU, though, so be careful. But as far as the EU goes, it's one of the least shitty places in Europe.


Unknown_01: My mother's from Borga. That's where she's from, so that's probably where I'd go. Go to the village, the countryside. It's beautiful.


Unknown_04: Hey, I mean, you could probably retire and do that right now if you wanted to.


Unknown_01: Yeah, but I don't want to retire. I actually like working, so I wouldn't do that. All these fuckers on YouTube, they're like,  I'm going to retire when I'm like 30. It's like, what are you going to do with the rest of your life? What would you do if you retired right now, Josh? Like what do you even, I guess maybe you don't want to talk about your personal life too much, but I can't imagine what I would even do. So I just didn't work.


1:22:08
Unknown_04: Are you saying this is like a position where I have like a hundred million dollars and I can do whatever I want? Or is this like, yeah, let's say, let's say maybe not a hundred mil, but let's say you had enough that like you could spend 50 grand a year.  I would buy a bunch of acres and some shithole state, and I would become an agriculturalist.


Unknown_01: Really? You'd be a farmer? I would be an actual farmer?


Unknown_04: Yes, I would become an actual farmer.


Unknown_01: What the hell?


Unknown_01:  What would you grow?


1:22:44
Unknown_04: Banana peppers. I would pickle banana peppers.


Unknown_01: Oh, yeah. I would be the best. It would be a famous brand of banana peppers that everyone would love and respect. From your streams, didn't you grow those or something? Didn't you grow the peppers? I did.


Unknown_04: I was living in an apartment, and I had a balcony, and I literally put...  Isn't there a bird or something? I remember some bird thing. They laid pigeon eggs in my banana pepper potted plants, and I did not murder the pigeons in cold blood. I actually saw the life cycle of two pigeons blossom, and they flew away from my balcony one day and left behind a big potted plant bowl-sized bowl of shit for me to clean up.


1:23:27
Unknown_01:  Was it beautiful? Did it make you want to have kids? Did it inspire you? It was beautiful.


Unknown_04: Of course, I'm proud of my pigeons. Everybody's proud of their pigeons, regardless of what they say.


Unknown_01: Guys, can I get some W pigeons in chat? W pigeon, please. W pigeon in chat, guys.


Unknown_04: Zoomers only communicate in W and L, right? Everything is WL.


Unknown_01:  I mean, I, I don't, or I didn't until like now, but now that I'm streaming, I feel like it's rotting my brain and this is just, yeah. Like there's no actual, there's no actual statements. It's all W pigeon.  Chad is going crazy. Yo, what's up guys?


1:23:58
Unknown_04: Everybody loves animals. That's another thing You have to if you want to be a real human being you have to learn how to take care of shit Especially if you're a man, here's a trip for all your men listeners who are thinking hmm I might try to be a real man or I might like become a eunuch Try to take care of a potted plant if you can take care show women that you can take care of things without them dying It helps what they respect them


Unknown_01:  All right, Josh, we have a special guest on stream right now. Do you mind? Oh, you don't want to? Okay. I thought my girlfriend wanted to talk to you. She made a video of you, Josh, that says, I love Null on it. It has like this song. What? It's like...  Is that a joke? Yeah, dude. I mean, it's a joke, but I mean, it's just a video. I feel like you should see it at some point. Okay, send me my love letter.


1:24:31
Unknown_04: I'll take a look at it when it's more convenient. Does she agree with my take? Okay, imagine you have two scenarios. Girlfriend of Turkey Tom.  You walk into a guy's house. It's all like desolate and shit. It's completely clean. It's not like a pig's eye It's just like a desolate like solo men's like dormitory or whatever the fuck but then you go to this other guy's house And he has a potted plant and it's thriving Which which one is more attractive to you just instinctively?


1:25:17
Unknown_01:  Hey, girlfriend, Josh has a question. So you didn't have to repeat myself. No, no, no, no. I'll say it. I'll say it. Would you prefer to go to a man's apartment that's like empty and desolate or go to a man's apartment that has a nice taking care of potted plant?


Unknown_01: Do you want there to be a potted plant in my apartment?


Unknown_01:  Is it empty and there's just a plotted plant? That's a clarifying question.


Unknown_04: He has very little furniture because he's poor, but he has a nice Ikea table and there's a little succulent that's growing and it's doing pretty well.


1:25:51
Unknown_01: He said there's some nice Ikea furniture and there's a little succulent that's doing well.


Unknown_01: That was the word he used, succulent.


Unknown_06: It's a man with your apartment. You can't be careful.


Unknown_01:  All she said is, I would kill the plant.


Unknown_04: This is an evaluation. In her head, she's thinking, this is a man who can't take care of a potted plant. What are my prospects with him? He is a plant murderer. If I somehow become impregnated, I cannot trust this man to take care of a baby because I have seen him try to take care of a plant, and lo and behold, the plant died. Whether or not either of you are aware of this, she is making judgment-based decisions about your character and your...  When you bring girls over, do you show them your plant?


1:26:26
Unknown_04: Of course. I show them my banana peppers and pictures of my pigeons and what I name them. I give them a full background.


Unknown_01: Like first date, you bring them over. And then there's, you know, it's cute because there's a language barrier.


Unknown_04: You try to use words that they may not know. And then, you know.


Unknown_01:  Where the fuck are you, Josh? I just teleported to you.


Unknown_04: Where are you? I'm in a hole. I'm continuing my voyage into the hole.


Unknown_01: You just went down, down, down in here, you know? Of course. Someone says a W Riz. You have W Riz, Josh?


1:27:03
Unknown_04: What's a W Riz?


Unknown_01:  So Riz is like charisma. People say Riz. Oh. So you have W Riz if you can like, if you're like good with a girl, you're suave. What is wrong with you?


Unknown_04: Why can't, there, look, we have this, this language. It's called English. It's been around for thousands of years. There are so many words that are so long and complicated and when they orate them correctly, people are like, wow, that sounds really elegant and nice and well thought out. And then y'all are just like, she is.


Unknown_01: It's not what you just said. You have L Riz. L Riz.


1:27:34
Unknown_04: Yeah, man. That's some L Riz right there. That's a big old L. That's...  Where can you stop?


Unknown_01: Elriz. Elriz. Kiwi Farms says Elriz, guys.


Unknown_01: It's the biggest criticism people should have to say. Elriz.


Unknown_01:  Cis white meme says, screw what women think, just go MGTOW.


Unknown_04: No, dude. Listen, there is a real incel to UNIC. I don't know what word I'm allowed to use because you told me not to use any of the words. There's an incel to UNIC pipeline. So when you start saying, no, I ain't going to grow no fucking potted plant. I'm just going to MGTOW. Okay, listen, with the MGTOW thing, the truth to MGTOW is that any time I've ever had success with women, I was doing my own thing.  i was focusing inwards and then i had like happenstance meetings with women and because i was already like preoccupied and it was like a natural occurrence it was a more like easy hit off it's bad it's very bad to seem desperate yes if you if you're desperate for a woman women okay women can smell desperation in a man like a dog can smell a cadaver buried eight feet under uh like a buried skunk okay they can they can  they are by evolution, by necessity, trained to identify weak, pathetic, groveling people. And you never want to be that. So I think they they also like even even beyond the evolution thing, it's like even if you're a man, like imagine if


1:28:47
Unknown_01:  the girl that you're trying to date like just wants a boyfriend and like she doesn't particularly care that it's you like like that like that would be a really shitty feeling as opposed to like if the girl wants as opposed to like if the girl wants you then that's like you know particularly like like i mean guys guys will fuck anything it doesn't really work well okay but that but that's fucking i'm talking about like actually dating you know what i mean like if you're if you're if you're going at it with like a level head  like you know trying to actually have a successful relationship you don't want to be dating some woman who just like no you would anyone else you don't you being desperate in general is a sign that you are not in a position in your life where you can take care of yourself and nobody like people have a hard enough time doing that already so nobody wants to take on like a project and some and some women do but then they learn that when they take on a project that the guy sucks


1:29:25
Unknown_04:  Yeah, they, like, they regret it. And then the guy, like, becomes too attached to her because she's tried to help. And then they want to, like, kill her and wear her skin. So, evolutionarily speaking, there's a reason why people are like that.


Unknown_01: Guys, listen. MGTOW talk with Josh. Red Pill talk with Josh.


Unknown_04:  Just don't. The thing is, is that I truly believe that relation, a relationship between a man and a woman is very important to the health of people. I think that people who grew up in their forties and fifties and they think like, I don't need, I can always, you know, become a player. I don't need no man. Men and women. If you're like 40 years old and you're like, I'm still at the problem in my life, I'm not going to hitch myself to some hoe. I'm going to do whatever. Like those type of guys are equally pathetic as the fucking cat ladies who are like, I don't need no man. I'm a strong, independent woman.  people need to be in relationships they need families if you turn 40 and you have all this wealth and success and you have like nothing to do with it you're going to become very depressed and i've seen it happen time and time again um so don't it's very popular to just like hate even 40 is too late though you got to have it figured out i think by like 30 30 yeah you gotta be getting that shit  Yeah, I mean, you have to be progressing in your life. And it sucks when you can't play video games and do the stuff that you want to do. Does that mean that we're going to see Josh Jr.?


1:31:01
Unknown_04: If I have my way with it, no.


Unknown_01: Damn.


Unknown_01: But sometimes, I mean, obviously, you know, whoever you marry is going to want to carry on the Kiwi Farms mantle. No, I'm saying when it comes time for that, I will disappear off the face of the earth and nobody will ever find me.


Unknown_00:  Oh, I see. That makes sense, yeah.


Unknown_00: Damn.


Unknown_01: Well, that's kind of white-pilling. That's kind of nice to hear. Listen, you're not all bad. You're not all MGTOW. You're not all Andrew Tate. I know you actually don't like Andrew Tate based on your stream the other day. I think you called him metrosexual or something like that.


1:31:36
Unknown_04:  I mean, yeah, he's like trying to impress people by looking like a like a gay Turkish man. He looks like he does look like a gay Turkish.


Unknown_01: He looks like Xerxes from 300.


Unknown_04: I don't know if you've ever watched that movie.


Unknown_01: I do. I have seen 300. Yeah.


Unknown_04: This is Sparta. Exactly. And then there's the guy and he thinks he's a god and he doesn't die at the end. He just gets like his cheek cut. But it's like, God, don't you're a phony. You're not actually a god at all.


1:32:07
Unknown_01: Exactly.


Unknown_01:  i'm gonna cook my my iron and then i'm gonna come i'm gonna come back to visit you josh all right listen i'm not gonna abandon you i know you've been lonely in this minecraft world you've been running away from your problems but i'm here to comfort you to make you know that you're loved in minecraft okay minecraft i even built like a furnace house i'm down here i'm like exploring because i'm a little bit you know how to get back up that's the real question yes i do um okay you're trying to get back up  In a sec, yeah, I'm just gonna get some iron.


1:32:43
Unknown_04: It's just like, usually the caves have like water and lava and shit. This is like an icky... Yeah, this is a new kind of cave. Icky, like a hole in the ground. We're not going out again. What? We're not going out again. We have to eat, right?


Unknown_00: No. Okay, so... Okay. Yeah, okay. What are you doing?


Unknown_07:  Oh, okay.


Unknown_01: Alright, um... Yeah, alright. Let me, uh... I think I got all my shit now. I got my coal. Alright, where are you? Where are you, little Joshy?


1:33:16
Unknown_04: Above you.


Unknown_01: Above me? Oh, shit, okay. Alright, is that the way out? Up there?


Unknown_04: No. You wanna get out? Here, follow me.


Unknown_00: Alright, I'll follow you. Ugh. Ugh.


Unknown_01:  I should probably read Super Chats. I've been ignoring them completely.


Unknown_04: I also have Super Chats. I'll probably read them at the end though, once we're done talking. I'll get through them.


Unknown_00: I guess I will as well.


Unknown_04: What do you usually stream about? I've seen some streams of that guy who drinks tea and talks about Chris Chan, I think.


1:33:54
Unknown_01: Dino Samuel?


Unknown_04: Yeah, he's like a VTuber cat now, right?


Unknown_01:  you for showing me the way out uh i actually i don't know what he's up to i don't really watch his stuff i've never uh for chris chan stuff i'd rather just like read it than watch like 18 million videos about it so i've never really watched his videos i don't really know i have stark criticism of his of his commentary because the story of chris is very interesting


Unknown_04:  The main issue is that that he has is that it's still unfolding He was like 90 episodes into his thing when Chris fucked his mom which kind of changes It would be like if you started doing the Tiger King Documentary and then he went to jail like halfway through it like oh fuck this like really changes like what I'm talking about this is the biggest thing in his life so far and  um he so he had but even before then he had the benefit of hindsight for a lot of his documentary and he made no narrative calls to try and build an interesting story it was sort of like this happens and then this happens it's like well isn't that his whole thing like he just it's a very boring dry kind of  yeah but it's like that exists that's called you know that's called the quickie forum or the the quickie um so i i thought if you're gonna do a documentary even if you want to be completely objective it's like you should be you should be explaining things in a narratively satisfying way that he has opted not to and i'm not particularly sure why so in that regard i'm very like critical of like why would you intentionally make things less interesting you know what i mean


1:34:38
Unknown_01:  Yeah, sure. I guess that makes sense. I mean, I think that's just kind of, he's, he's just kind of in that format now, but you know, people eat it up regardless. I mean, he gets like pretty good views considering the fact that every video is so just like straightforward and there's no like evolution or anything. Like it's been the same pretty much since the beginning. He gets pretty good views for that. So I guess he's just kind of comfortable in that formula, you know?


1:35:26
Unknown_04:  I mean, the content makes itself with risk. There's a reason why. Yeah, it's very easy.


Unknown_01: That's the thing I found. It's very easy to get comfortable with making videos. Like it's easy to like if you're making like seven, eight grand a month, like that's a pretty great income.


Unknown_01: That's a pretty great income. You know what? I'll look at this.  My girlfriend's asking me about the food she wants her to make me. I have to read this out, guys. I have to read this on stream. Baked mac and cheese, W. W, guys, baked mac and cheese. Spaghetti and meatballs, W. Chicken kebabs, rice, hummus, and naan. Is this like packaged food, or is she actually going to make those?  No, she's going to make it. She's going to make it. Burgers and homemade fries. W. W. Riz. That's a lot of work. Making like real fries.


1:36:03
Unknown_04: It's a pain in the ass.


1:36:33
Unknown_01: That is a pain in the ass. Well, I think she's... Homemade fries. Are you actually going to do that?


Unknown_01: You have to ask your mom. Steak, asparagus, mashed potatoes. That's going to be a fire. Guys, W. Riz dinner.


Unknown_01: I think it'll be fine. Thank you. Yeah, that sounds good. Is that what you were trying to ask me the whole time? Is that what you were trying to ask me the whole time you were in here?  Okay, well, I haven't read I haven't read that off yet. But um, yeah, but I mean Back to what we're talking about. Mr. Moon I think it's really girlfriend.


Unknown_04: It's rare to find one that can cook these days. Most just eat hot chip and lie Well, she's uh, she's she's she's learning.


1:37:05
Unknown_01: I think she's learning because she wants to do the trad kind of thing So she's trying to learn to and she's honestly she's doing good. She made a roast recently that I enjoyed good What's her phenotype?  phenotype uh she's irish and english scottish yeah irish english and scottish she's from canada though she's actually from the same area as keffalus are you canadian i'm not canadian no i'm from i'm from maine maine wow my grandfather's from maine his family spoke italian um while he was a child but unfortunately doesn't remember any of it oh yeah i don't speak italian but i do live in maine um  But yeah, that's where I'm from. But I think it's really easy to get comfortable. I've known a lot of people who get to a certain size on YouTube and they start making money. And they just kind of become complacent and comfortable with where they're at. They don't really care to try to progress.


1:37:49
Unknown_01: I think that if you want some unsolicited advice, I don't know how applicable it is to you.


Unknown_04: I would try and find a plan B. Because like...  from what i've noticed the reason why all those youtubers get burned out is because they have this this setup where they have a very successful formula but they get bored of it they get bored of their own formula eventually and they are uh stuck where they try new things and it hurts their like actively causes subscribers to leave and their seo goes down because their pick through is last and whatever the fuck pisses off the algorithm um it's good to have like a plan b where


1:38:41
Unknown_04:  You have built in support some other way than just like your primary gig.


Unknown_01: I'd have to figure that out because I've just been going so hard in the paint, so to speak, on YouTube, trying to make that as successful as I can. I mean, thankfully, it's like if it were to die today, like I would have money saved up for a little while. It wouldn't be like immediately over, but.  Yeah, I do have to kind of figure out some other kind of like revenue stream.


Unknown_04: Yeah I'm sure your friends told you this we need to make sure that you have like X amount of months of living expenses covered and I'm sure based on what you're telling me that you have a lot of that but like Don't don't do it like boogie does where he spends he gambles those fucking money on cryptocurrency and then buys a tesla and shit No, yeah, I mean i'm not gonna do that but I do um I do understand like like i'm very money conscious and like time conscious and aware of the fact that like


1:39:26
Unknown_01:  You know, like any YouTuber, I'm probably going to have a limited amount of time where I can do this and it's going to make me money. And that's just kind of how it is with any creative thing. Like if you're an artist. Yeah. I mean, like literally a limited window.


Unknown_04: YouTube can ban you at any time. Like that's the main thing. It's like this is not.


Unknown_01: I'm not so worried about that because I'm pretty careful. No, you don't.


Unknown_04:  You got to be worried about it because they they like You you say i'm okay with the rules right now I've always got the thing is that youtube can change the policies at any time and then retroactively Like in law like in a legal system. This is called. Um


Unknown_04:  Ooh, I fucked myself by trying to figure out what it was called in Latin. But it's a thing. Ex post facto.


1:40:02
Unknown_04: So in law, they can't do this where they can just change the shit retroactively and then enforce it ex post facto. But with YouTube, the contract says they can terminate you for any reason or no reason at all. So if they change it and then look at your videos retroactively and say, oh, you infringed our current policies in the past, they will just ban you for it and you have no appeals process.


Unknown_01: I mean, that could happen.  I'm less worried about that. The thing I'm more worried about and I think is more likely is just like, you know, my content just like doesn't improve that much. It just gets kind of stale. And I just, I just fall off in the traditional sense, you know, and I'm very aware that that could happen. And I'm a, I'm not, you know, I'm not so egotistical that I don't think that like that could ever be a possibility. And I think a lot of people are, and that's why they get too comfortable. And so that's why I'm always trying to like think of the next step to get to that next level of popularity, that next level of income.  um because you know you just don't know how long it's going to last and you kind of have a responsibility to use the opportunity the best you can i think yeah yeah yeah yeah and once you have like more free time and you like explore what your interests are and stuff you can invest in the businesses and things that you would be content managing like after the fact um


1:41:17
Unknown_01:  Yeah, having a business outside of it is important. That's something I do need to think about. There's a reason why Logan Paul branched.


Unknown_04: I mean, he sucked at it because he fucked up and he made himself look like a retard. But there's a reason why all those people look for things to invest their time into and branch their content with because they know. Everybody knows that.  susan is just looking for the reason to lynch you she will she will jump at the first opportunity she gets a thrill a sexual a deep six sexual thrill out of ruining the careers of young men who think that youtube is a reliable platform it's not just that it's also just i mean in any in any job right that's like creative like where you're not you know uh or really just any job in in general it's gonna have a backup plan but especially if you're creative right like all musicians know this it's like


1:42:00
Unknown_01:  You've got to have some kind of backup plan at some point, whether it's like if you don't make all your money through one avenue, you make it through merch or your website or concerts or whatever. Like if you're in a band, you know that you need to be figuring out multiple avenues to make money and constantly expanding that to to kind of think like beyond like, you know, you can't be thinking like, where am I going to be in one year? You need to be thinking like, how am I going to set myself up now for the next 10 years? And that's definitely something I'm conscious of all the time and I'm trying to be aware of.  But at this point it's like, I'm also, I have greater, like for me to be irresponsible with my platform would, you know, I don't really care about how the audience feels, but at this point I have multiple people working for me who like depend on me for a wage. And so if my channel were to, you know, go under, like they would be out of a job for a while and that would suck, so.


1:42:42
Unknown_01: Yeah. It's stressful when you have like dependents, like people who rely on you to make smart decisions.


Unknown_04:  when you have that kind of uh burden it like when you start off and you have like your your thing like i had my forum and i had like this thing if you ever have earned a position where you have like people who rely on you to keep this thing up um you feel really restrained and i think that's also a thing that a lot of people who are successful long term with youtube  are resentful of is like losing creative control because you have an obligation to people who um are a part of like your program i mean i mean i mean that's the thing you don't want to lose creative control but in terms of uh


1:43:32
Unknown_01:  like freeing up responsibility to work on other things like the reason i'm able to even do these streams right now is because i'm not fucking killing myself working you know 50 hours a week trying to make a 40 minute long youtube video which i would be otherwise uh if i didn't have people helping me out but now that i have them it's like now i can do these streams and provide more content and you know provide more entertainment and stuff why are there like dinosaurs outside is this a new thing  Yeah, so if you don't sleep, they come out. After like three nights, they come out. So we've got to start sleeping. We've got to start snuggling up at night just a little bit.


Unknown_04: Can't sleep only at night or during thunderstorms. It is a thunderstorm.


Unknown_01: Yeah, we can't sleep now, I think. Is it a thunderstorm or is it just normal rain? I think there's a difference in the game.


Unknown_04: Why are the zombies out and the pterodactyls?


Unknown_01: They're out because it's raining and that prevents them from the sun hurting them.


Unknown_01:  What is this thing called again? A ghast? Ghast with the big fat boys in the nether. Oh, yeah. Fuck, what is this called? I used to know.


1:44:25
Unknown_01: Pterodactyl. Cool.


Unknown_01: Yeah, yeah. But definitely, you know, YouTube, important to expand. You, I guess you probably don't want to talk about it, but.  Are you trying to expand your services outside of Kiwi Farms or is it just your sole focus?


Unknown_04: The issue is that I have time constraints.


Unknown_04: My trade is programming, and programming is something that's very hard to motivate yourself to stay in. You have to be in the right mind for it, right?  um so if i if i program i i it's like it's very stressful because if i'm doing something if i'm programming something that i want to for fun i i feel anxiety because it's like i should be spending this productive time building something for the site or there are so many things that i would love to build that i i never have time for i never end up doing


1:45:02
Unknown_04:  And one of them is I need to replace the forum software because one of the things that I was banned from is from updating Zinforo. So I have to find new forum software. I think that the existing alternatives to Zinforo in the market suck. So I have to literally write my own forum software from scratch. And that is an enormous undertaking, especially from one person.  the other thing is now without cloudflare i have to kind of roll out my own ddos protection and i'm working on that right now and um i've made some good products with it actually just this week but i think that what i would like to do long term if possible is um once i have something working for the kiwi farms i can kind of roll out my own high-risk ddos protection for people who don't want to support cloudflare  And ironically, that's something that Liz Fong Jones does through their bullshit company that they use to harass my service providers with.


1:46:17
Unknown_04: So that's one of the things.


Unknown_01: What does the majority of your day look like in terms of work? Do you work? I work like a normal work day.


Unknown_04: I am someone who I've never had a very healthy relationship with productivity. I've always, even when I was a child, I was very bad at schoolwork.  So sometimes I will get into a fit. I will have a manic phase. I will sit down and I will program from 8 a.m. till 8 a.m. and sometimes a little bit more. And then I'll go to sleep for like 12 hours and I'll wake up and I'll order something and I'll just keep programming for 24 plus hours at a time. And then after two weeks, I'll be so exhausted. And then I'll think, you know, I'm gonna take a break. I didn't, geez, I've been so productive. I'm gonna like play some Dota or something. And then two months later, I've done absolutely nothing else but play Dota.  so i have i i'm only pulled out of that when something happens if there's like an emergency situation then my focus i'm i'm someone who's very motivated by necessity when necessity strikes and there's like a clear deadline that or the clear problem to fix i will stay locked in on that without complaining without any issue for months even like when the attacks happen and i have to figure out what to do about keppels and and the bull the  I am zen-focused. But when it comes to self-motivating to make an ambitious goal like a custom forum software come to completion, it's very difficult. In the time that I've been around, I've never found a healthy way to manage that work. I'd imagine anything that's kind of a blessing and a curse because, like you said, when you need to go, when it's go time, you will get shit done.


1:47:41
Unknown_01: But otherwise, it's like sometimes the progress can just be slow. I'm someone who...  My work is very, like, consistent. Like, I work every week, like, 9 to 5 roughly. I get things done. I have deadlines that I always meet.


1:48:14
Unknown_04: That's great, man. You want to be that person. That's that Donald Trump shit where you get up early and you, like, just do your work. That's the right attitude to have. That's very fortunate to be like that.  I don't know what the fuck my issue is. I wish I was a more normal person, but unfortunately, maybe fortunately, I'm insane. And I'm motivated by unknown factors that seem to be almost kind of out of my control.


Unknown_01: What even does motivate you at this point to keep a side up? Is it out of principle? I mean, it doesn't seem like it's benefited your life in some ways.


1:48:46
Unknown_04: I've already said this. I like it.


Unknown_01: I'm not lying.  I don't think you're lying. It's just like, from my perspective, it's like, okay, if I was you watching all these, like, like even, even looking at someone like me, who like is a more mainstream kind of figure who has made a ton of money off of the info from your site. Like, are you not, I don't know, somewhat resent, like, I'd be kind of pissed off. I'd be like, fuck this turkey top kid.


Unknown_04: I'm, I'm grateful when people give credit. That's all I can ask of people. Like, what am I supposed to do? Like shake it down. Cause the thing is, is I don't own the content on my site either. It's all, it's by random people.  All I do is host it. I'm a curator. I keep the site up and I keep things organized and I keep the community cohesive as best I can. But the fact is I don't own the information that you use for your videos. I don't even post the information usually that you use in your videos. I just keep the site up.  Um, and I would say that, you know, the actual posters are not even any more entitled to money than I would say I am. It's just, it's just a story. And thankfully the forum exists as a place where people can talk about things. And then if people want to turn that into a video, then they can, um, though to some effect, you have to remember that being able to tell like a story of redneck white trash, getting married at Las Vegas and having an Elvis wedding is not that funny in and of itself.  Being able to take that kind of content and turn it into something that's entertaining that people want to sit down and watch for an hour to three hours. Like that's a kind of contribution, artistic contribution in and of itself. So to an extent, it's like, yeah, I wish...  i got paid royalties but that's not just like i wish i had that money it's like i wish i could use that money to like hire people to work with you know how nice it would be if i knew like rust developers who could sit down and like say like hey this is what i worked on today and i'm like thanks let me check your code i'll do like a code quality check or whatever and i could like sit down and have these conversations with people developing stuff with me that would probably help a lot  But hiring developers or even paying people at all is completely out of my budget. And I feel like the people who want it, people who do good work should be paid for it. So I'm not going to... I've asked people to help me for free, but I can't expect people to help me for free because...  why should they i wouldn't help people for free i've been involved in open source software for basically 10 years i've never submitted a get a push to basically anything ever because i have other shit to do and if i can't do it i can't expect other people to do it either right fair enough well it's very uh very mature of you josh very i don't know


1:51:21
Unknown_01:  Good good take I like that here.


Unknown_04: I agree. I don't know if you know your movie sucks But he he has what he considers like a pro art and creativity stance, right? I think that people should be allowed to take things and do what they want with it and remix it how they want because That's it's healthy. That's healthy for Society for people to have as much free expression and artistic creativity and license as they as they possibly can I


Unknown_01:  I do know him, actually. He's the only other person that I have added on Telegram. He's the only person who's asked me to use Telegram to talk to him.


1:51:57
Unknown_04: Surprisingly, surprisingly base, YMS. I wish he would stop posting his BBC porn on fucking Twitter, because I want to like Adam so much, but he's like a true libertarian homosexual where it's just like, bro, this is so embarrassing.


Unknown_01: I want to just ignore the BBC stuff and just  I'm not homophobic, really, but I don't want to see that. So I just ignore it. And I just, like, when I, you know...  I used to talk to him on my old Twitter before I got it suspended. I just wish more than anything that there were more people who I liked and who I saw eye to eye with on more things who I could respect personally, who weren't posting themselves getting fucked in the ass by black men on Twitter.


1:52:41
Unknown_04: It's like, why is there nobody out there like me who is like me? Why is it always like, why is here? Okay. Here's a fun question. Why is the racism community so diverse?  Why is it gonna be the racism community the racism community is the most diverse place or racism community? I'm proud car carrying member of the racism community many of my fans are too Okay, and why is it so diverse?


Unknown_01: I mean probably just because uh Like racism is kind of shunned shunned so people who are racists have to just cling together Whatever target conversation that you could just got me into  I'm sure this will look really great when it's clipped everywhere.


1:53:18
Unknown_04: Look at the Keppel's community. Look at the...  the people of gender, and they're all very similar. They all say the exact same things. They all believe the exact same things. They look exactly the like with some minor dishevelment, separating them in distinction. And you're like, you look at the racism community and you've got all sorts of people, all walks of life, gay, straight, of different religions, hating each other for a plethora of different, very well...  research reasons and you're thinking wow what a what a beautiful world these racists are then you look at the people of gender and it's just like they're they're marching in goose step and down the alley like for the for the cause and it's like oh it sounds like it sounds like the people the racism community is more progressive and diverse these days it is people of gender it truly is there you go gosh there you go how how how heartwarming and wholesome shungus 100 moment


1:53:54
Unknown_01:  And you know, the most racist people, they got to learn about other cultures.


Unknown_04: If you really want to offend somebody on Dota, talking smack to someone, and you see, ah, they're Turkish, you have to know a little bit about Turkey. You have to know who Ataturk is, and how to offend the Turkish person, you have to offend Ataturk. And you would only know who Ataturk is if you studied Turkish history. So it does, it makes you a more knowledgeable person.


Unknown_01:  Okay, they're back. We need to sleep, Josh. We need to go to sleep, buddy. We need to do it. Just come in this house. We got some beds. I'm not hungry right now. I just ate. I'll eat it later.


1:54:50
Unknown_01: Thank you.


Unknown_00: We're getting bed.


Unknown_01: Oh, look at that. All right, I'm going to clear the weather, actually. I'm going to cheat a little bit.


Unknown_01:  are there i actually did it already so there we go okay um oh josh i want to criticize you too much for the minecraft stuff i feel like you should build a house at some point i'm actually i was just about to say i feel like if i played a game of minecraft and i did not build anything to show that i was here what have i done exactly i'm going to build a monument to your presence i'm going to work on that right now actually


1:55:56
Unknown_01:  Oh shit, we're watching.


Unknown_00: I haven't checked the live count.


Unknown_01: There's 1200 people watching.


Unknown_01: This is my most viewed stream ever. Yeah.


Unknown_01: I guess I'm a little bit. I think the flamenco one came close. That was like a thousand.


Unknown_04: God, it's embarrassing.


Unknown_01: I think.


Unknown_04: How do I make bricks? Do I have to use smooth stone for the bricks? That's right, right? I have to use smooth stone.


Unknown_01:  I think so, yeah.


Unknown_04: All right. I got confused. My boomer brain.


Unknown_01: If you look in the recipe book, like if you go on crafting table and click the book and then type in what you want, like brick, then it'll tell you how.


1:56:32
Unknown_00: Tell you what you need. I don't really have a cobblestone.


Unknown_00: Put it in there.


Unknown_00: In here. There is some. There we go.


Unknown_04:  so if you were a farmer right just pretend what animal sure what kind of animal would you want to raise um well i like the way pigs taste so maybe a pig you're using every furnace holy shit you're going all out all right my bricks


1:57:15
Unknown_01:  I understand. Maybe you're going to get bricked up, Josh. Maybe a maybe pig because I like the way they taste. But also, you know, I like cows. I don't know. I mean, just everything. Maybe a turkey. Turkeys will be good.


Unknown_04: OK, here's the thing. If you're if you're listening, you're like, I want to I want to become like Ted Kaczynski. I want to hide away in the woods.  um chickens are a great way to go i think i've done my research into this chickens are very loving they create eggs regardless of what you eat like for instance with cows you have to give them progesterone to keep them lactating but with uh chickens they lay eggs all the fucking time and then you can make more chickens and to keep actually like fuck though you gotta have the hand or whatever no no


1:57:55
Unknown_01:  no no no eggs eggs like a chicken or like a woman's period it's simply a part of the cycle and they do it whether or not they are sexually active or you know it's just something that they do so chickens um turkeys and ducks actually lay eggs there's a thing called an indian running duck that is um it can't fly so you don't have to clip the wings so if you're like squeamish about like gelding an animal which means to make it a eunuch you have to make it a pig of gender for instance if you want to geld a pig


Unknown_04:  I think chickens would probably be a good entry animal for people to raise who are like, I want to become more self-sufficient and worldly, but I don't want to have to invest myself fully into a schizo lifestyle and learn how to become an agriculturalist.


Unknown_01:  It can seem nice. Yeah, it just does. It's something I want to get into. It just seems like a lot of work.


Unknown_01: And also, you really got to have your own property to do that. And I don't have that right now.


Unknown_04: Well, someday. Yeah, you should look into that. You and your girlfriend progress. You should start looking into getting a house sooner rather than later.


1:58:56
Unknown_01: I do. I do stock realtor.com and Zillow. Where I live is a pretty expensive area, I will say. So it's just I might move somewhere else. But I'm also paranoid about living anywhere but where I live. Can you say where you're at?


Unknown_01:  Southern Maine, like near New Hampshire.


Unknown_03: Maine is like, dude, Maine has beautiful land for cheap.


Unknown_01:  Um, yeah, but that's like in bumfuck nowhere. Like I like to live like somewhat close to civilization Nah, bro, as long as you're 30 minutes away from a walmart dude in your lifetime Jeff bezos is going to be using drones to like area like it'll be like call of duty you'll be running out of your house and then like Dropping prone in your lawn and then the crate will come down.


1:59:41
Unknown_04: You'll open it up It'll be all your groceries and dragon dildos and batteries and shit Like you can live in bumfuck nowhere and live well in your lifetime


Unknown_01:  You can, you can, you can live well, but I'm just not ready for that yet. Like I want, I need to be a part of the right now, especially as like a YouTuber, like I need to kind of be a part of the culture and not be totally unrelatable. I don't think I would be a very relatable person if I was, um,  if i made a bunch of money and then i just off in the middle of the woods and like don't talk to anyone become this like out of touch like like boomer no no no that's you're wrong um i live in the middle of serbia and i have 2500 people watch my streams do you think any of them have any the fact that nobody can relate to my life experience is what makes me interesting to people


2:00:20
Unknown_04:  Don't ever for a second think, I have to move to LA and network with fucking YouTubers.


Unknown_01: I'm not going to move to LA. Don't do that. I'm not going to network with YouTubers either. I just want to feel like I'm in the culture. I'm seeing normal average people every day. You know what I mean?


Unknown_04:  I mean, like, dude, like, literally, you can say, like, I've moved out into the sticks and I'm going to raise fucking ducks and turkeys and stuff. I'm dead serious about this. And then you can set up turkey cam and you can give them, you know, the ones that you don't.


Unknown_04: No, this is what Tim Pool does. He has a Twitch stream where you can feed his chickens. You can tip Twitch money to feed Tim Pool's chickens. And he makes $30,000 a month for it. I'm telling you, don't ever think like I can't do X because my fans won't like it.  that that's how you get the burnout mindset you want to be like i think it's just that my fans don't like it i think that i wouldn't like it right now as well maybe i mean you're quite young you have to you have to fuck up your whole life a little like i'm like i'm like 20 right now like maybe i'm when i'm like 30 i'll do that yeah that's that's fair i'm just saying like don't ever think like i'm gonna limit my options because i have to be where where the cool happening like dude never never ever live your life i'm not not where the cool happenings are i just mean like like like where i live even now is like most people would consider a bumfuck nowhere but


2:01:33
Unknown_01:  um i just like i like to be around like a bunch of restaurants and you know some culture i like to go to concerts and stuff like that i mean i'm a young spry guy josh you know boomer lifestyle once once the wahman acquires the cooking once she hits about once she can cook lobster you know with a low burn rate then you can go ahead and move out to the sticks and you won't have to be like oh i miss uh baggioli's my favorite italian restaurant you have to worry about that  lobster is a big thing here you like lobster a lot your seafood head it was actually a runescape reference but i know that you're in maine so it was kind of apropos um yes i haven't had i haven't had lobster in a while actually i lie i had surf and turf one day i went out to an fancy restaurant and i bought surf and turf and it was really really good um i'm actually i like crab crab is probably my favorite


Unknown_01:  yeah I I don't like eating the lobster like the bug like I don't like eating it that way I'll eat a lobster roll but visually just the the insect really disturbs me I don't I don't like it um  Even watching other people eat it is kind of gross to me. I can tolerate that. But when I'm the one pulling, peeling apart this like sea bug and like pulling out its meat, like that's just the most disgusting thing in the world. But if it's, if it's like, like even, even if I can imagine the process, as long as it's not right in front of me, if they, if people like take it out, put it in a hot dog bun, put fucking mayonnaise in it, then it's like, then it's pretty good.  I'm willing to pay like I'm willing to pay the fucking I'm willing to shell out the $26 for the lobster roll the Bounties of this earth were put here so that we could tear it apart like cavemen and enjoy it They'll never be ashamed to enjoy thing. I do I I do enjoy it. I enjoy it after someone else has done that. I


2:03:11
Unknown_01:  You have to acquire a more worldly connection with your food, I think.


Unknown_04: One day I have to do it. I say that, but I'm not out there butchering cows or whatever. I would like to have a more familiar position with my food and how it's made and the entire process from calving to...  Butchery and the how how a cow is trying to tell you when you grow when you grow a medicare fucking soil Yeah, when medicare is compost and I grow my gem potatoes and I start making some liquor and french fries out of that hell Yeah, I have to know where my food comes from and people are so far detached from where their food comes from That's why that eat the bug shit has any chance of happening. I already don't I  I'm not going to see it. I'm just going to have my insect protein powder as a part of my diet. No. The closer you are to your food, the more you'll enjoy it, the more you'll respect it, and the more that you'll have a taste preference that they can't take from you because you won't want to give it up.


2:04:00
Unknown_01: It is kind of just something I take for granted, the whole food thing, because I just go to Burger King. I get my waffle with fries. Life's good. I don't even have to think about it.


Unknown_04:  yeah and that's um like especially if you do care about animal welfare like that is like the worst shit in terms of how animals are treated and what kind of life they have before they're eaten i kind of care about it but i don't i don't care about it enough to stop eating burger king yet so that's kind of the stage i'm at i mean that's where most like you're you're a zoomer you have you have yet to


2:04:51
Unknown_04:  develop appreciation for certain same as being like doomer like oh i don't want to i think that we're just thinking in part thinking that you're fucked and thinking that there's nothing to be done it's sort of a way to shift responsibility and i'm not just saying that you specifically like oh you're a lazy cunt  i'm not trying to say that it's something that is a part of human nature like with incels in particular if you've ever met like an incel and talked to them they'll say they'll give you like a thousand reasons why they can't get a girlfriend and then if you try to help them in any way they will sabotage their own things so they can just throw their hands up at the end and say look i told you there's no point even trying i'm just not meant to have a girlfriend and those people suck you don't want to be those people they suck ass


Unknown_01:  Me that's different because in my eyes, like, uh, like trying to grapple with the realities of like the dating world is a lot easier.  been grappling with like the realities of like all of these politicians and like you know people at the top of these tech companies in silicon valley that have a vested interest in like destroying free speech yeah yeah exactly but you know what they you know what those people do that make that kind of humbles them they shit and they eat and they breathe and they sleep at night and they do all these things that everybody else does


2:05:48
Unknown_04:  that in truth does not really make them better or more deserving of like a a control over the world than anybody else um and i i see no reason to simply be speechless as they do whatever they want  Because, yeah, Jeff Bezos is really, really rich right now. But you know what could take that away? Basically anything. He could trip getting out of bed, tumble down the stairs, and fucking break his neck. And then all his money went another second by, right? And that's all of them.


2:06:43
Unknown_00: True. True. They're only human.


Unknown_00: I already have a shovel. What am I doing?


Unknown_01:  uh what's up chat i haven't been i haven't been talking to you guys the parasocial relationship is growing weaker every moment you've been too engrossed yeah well usually usually i'm very attentive to chat i'm like this guy said this but this guy said this but this stream has been ignoring all together probably is the best way to go about it i feel like most streamers don't read a chat the whole time but


2:07:23
Unknown_04:  um i don't know you want to engage chat a little bit because it's nice i i've been in the audience before before i started streaming i was in the other people and i were you watching like medicare um yeah like medicare it's fun when you like are saying stuff and or even before before then i was literally i was in um i was a i watched the kill stream a lot and it's fun when you like to say something in chat and people like notice it and read it out like hey that guy brings up a good point it activates your neurons and the reward center of your brain i like them


Unknown_01:  His show's doing well on Cozy these days, yeah. Ethan Ralph's show.


Unknown_04: Supposedly. There's a lot of speculation about what those numbers mean. It's hard to get a firm understanding of his financial situation. I heard somewhere he was making like 7k a month.


Unknown_01: That's what he claims.


Unknown_04: He claims he makes like a thousand dollars a week or some shit. One to two thousand.


Unknown_04: That's pretty good.


Unknown_01: It's not bad.


Unknown_01: Especially living in Mexico or whatever. I'm sure it's not super expensive. All you can eat or whatever.


2:08:26
Unknown_01:  Have you ever had a Meteora request from more like YouTube type people? Like outside of me? No. Or am I like the only one?


Unknown_04: I get contacts, obvious hit piece, like contacts from bullshit journalists. But I don't, I get contacts from people who have like no audience whatsoever.


Unknown_04: Sorry, I really don't want to.


Unknown_01: Yeah, like five subscribers. I understand that, yeah.


Unknown_04: Nothing personnel kid, but I just don't feel like it.


Unknown_01:  Yeah, that makes sense.


Unknown_01: Damn, that's interesting. Honestly, I would expect at least like...  Honestly, one thing that surprises me is that Keffels has never reached out to try to debate you or something. I feel like she probably would think she would own you in a debate.


2:09:06
Unknown_04: I don't think I would accept. I have nothing to say to Keffels. I think that they're a complete and total blight. I don't want to get... Because my thing is that, like I said, it's all team sport. There's no... The outcome of such a discussion has no bearing on anybody's opinion. It changes absolutely nothing.  The only thing it could possibly do is that Kefals could clip shit out of context and then be like, Epic trans gamer owns epically. Boss transphobe.


2:09:39
Unknown_01: Yeah, I mean, in that way, it's just entertainment, right?


Unknown_04:  Yeah, but i'm not i'm not entertained by their escapade. I think that what they have done Should constitute uh, torturous interference in my business the amount of time that has taken to maneuver around The bullshit and the active threat that it has posed to the free internet um by going to links that nobody has ever seen before as far as um pulling the plug on a u.s legal website without court order at the highest levels of the internet  I'm not laughing. I think that they are a fuck-up and they are fucking up things that they don't even understand and if the Government was allowed if the private companies were allowed that level of control over what we see day to day the implications of that would make your make your fucking skin crawl and they just don't care because they sit there and they jerk off to anime and they jerk off to their own image when they're wearing a dress and they don't give a fuck about what it actually means to  other people because they don't they have no investment in the future keffels i think i think their investment is in their own identity right yes exactly they have no like you if you have a kids you'll have an investment in the future you'll think like i don't want the world to be as shit as it is for me for my kids i want them to grow up in a better place keffels will never have that tether to reality it is always keffels wants it to be good for the next generation of trans kids  No, what Keffles wants is to be good for them now. The whole shit about trans kids and sticking up for trans kids, that's literally just sucking their own dick, saying, I'm such a hero. I'm such a fucking hero for people. Respect me. Love me. Watch my streams. Give me money. It has nothing to do with standing up for people who are underprivileged.


2:10:37
Unknown_01: See, the thing is, I think Keffles is very self-interested in, like,  But I also think she probably wants, like, the best for most trans people, you know? You don't think at all? You think it's all a rift?


Unknown_04: I think that Kefals would personally wrap their hands around the neck of a trans person and snap it if it meant that they would get ten more viewers on Twitch every day.


2:11:36
Unknown_01: Damn. That's brutal, Josh. That's very brutal.


Unknown_01: I'm hoping that she'll still talk to me after this conversation, because I...  I have a feeling she won't, but you know, she did reach out. So, you know, I'll, I'll do it. I will have the conversation.


Unknown_04:  I mean, yeah, go for it. But I'm telling you that the it's just it's pure entertainment. It's Jerry Springer. At the end, I'll be like Turkey, Turkey, Turkey, because that's that's all that's going on. There is no higher intellect going on. There's no mind changing. There's no gears grinding. It's just like watch YouTuber and Twitch talk about girl dick. And what is the really the good thing about the girl dick or the girl dick is not actually the good thing. And that's like.


2:12:09
Unknown_04:  it yeah i guess i mean i guess but you know for my own personal interest like even if the audience doesn't get that much out of it like in terms of like intellectualism like i would like to at least like if i have this opportunity to speak to someone who i disagree with like i feel like i should at least try you know like like even with someone like you like i didn't convince you of anything in this conversation but i did like get insight you know  Well, I mean, what are you trying to convince me of? Do you have an opinion that you want to tell us about?


2:12:45
Unknown_01: Well, I expressed my opinion of, like, you know, like, I mean, we talked about the doxing stuff. I mean, I didn't expect you to move on any of that, but I was just, like, talking about how, like, you know, it's probably bad that people get doxed, and I don't, like, you know, I don't think that's cool, and I don't think dreams are to be doxed, and if I was running your website, like, I probably would be, like,  Okay, Dream, you can't be doxxed. Corpse Husband, you can't be doxxed. You know what I mean?


Unknown_04: Imagine there are several thousand, tens of thousands of websites or threads on the forum. Do you know how swamped – and then think about it. Right now the message is I will not remove information without a court order. That's it. That's my stance. Very simple. Imagine if you had to actually litigate. You had to put on – That's fair.


2:13:18
Unknown_01: I mean that's totally fair in practice, but in terms of outcome, like I just think it's a bad thing to happen on your site.  Not once, never, has anyone ever told me, any ISP, fucking Cloudflare, the police, or whatever the fuck, hey guy, you know, your website, some iffy stuff, but if you just didn't post addresses in particular, then we could host your website.


Unknown_04: Never. Not once. No ISP, no service has ever drawn the line on anything and explicitly outlined what they were unhappy with. What they're unhappy with is people complaining.  They don't want people like Keffels and Liz Fong Jones throwing a fit on social media. That's all they give a fuck about. The doxing thing is literally just like a moral stance.


2:13:55
Unknown_01: Well, that's what the companies care about, of course. I mean, we care about the bottom line. That's what I'm saying, like YouTube.


Unknown_04: But you say, like, as far as, like, you know, if that's what you want out of your community, that's fine. That's up to you for what you're running. But don't think, like, it would make things easier for me. I'm purposefully making my life harder because I allowed that. It would probably make your life harder, I think, to do that. Yeah.  Um, like again, if it gets legislated, if the us says, okay, well, we're going to improve data privacy and we're going to make it so that you have some control over what marketers can sell about you. Kind of like, um, in the EU, if that happened, then I would just have to deal with the reality that there are now limitations on what can and cannot be posted. I would have to make like a, you know, law name at uefarms.net to process requests and look into the validity, but.  The fact is that right now the doxing question is an aside. It's merely a talking point by the media. It has no bearing on if the website stays up or not.


2:14:36
Unknown_01:  and one thing you talk about a lot in terms of the law is uh section 230 i know there's a court case right now going on is it i think it's gonzalez versus the youtube um or google i believe the the case is over uh seeing like hateful videos on youtube and trying to hold youtube responsible and i believe it would set some kind of precedent about section 230 it's something you talk about a lot um i've never heard of this case i imagine that it will not go anywhere it's actually the supreme court i think


2:15:26
Unknown_04:  if you want to send me a link but i've not heard of this at all um section 230 in brief as quickly as possible there is a law on the books that has been around since the 1990s and basically what happened is that in the back in the day it used to be that no matter what was posted on your services you could not be liable for other people said which has an unintended consequence of making it that if copyright infringement was uh permitted and uh you hosted like copies of movies and  then there was nothing that a copyright holder could do to take down piracy. So they made Section 230, which basically says that they can... Well, they made the DMCA to get around that, but Section 230 was before that, and that created like a loophole where... Oh, I died.


Unknown_04: Where people... I sent you a link, by the way, just to the Google blog about it, about the future of the internet.


Unknown_01: And it's about the court case, specifically.


Unknown_02:  I might steal some shit in your house because I lost my stuff.


2:16:28
Unknown_01: Feel free, buddy.


Unknown_01: All about sharing here. What's mine is yours.


Unknown_04: So, actually, let me just walk it back. I'll restart. Section 230 is a law that says a service provider, which means Kiwi Farms, the host of Kiwi Farms, the internet service providers, the domain registrar, cannot be held civilly liable for any...  any claim, any kind of civil case that arose from content posted by an end user of that service. So John Doe goes to Kiwi Farms, says something that's demonstrably not true, sparks a defamation case. You must sue John Doe. You cannot sue me. You cannot sue my host. You cannot sue the internet service providers that I use.  This is a very good law. The other part of Section 230 is the second paragraph that says no service provider shall be held liable for damages that arise for removing content. So if I remove John Doe's post and that somehow causes him injury, he cannot sue me for removing it.  and this is the contention because youtube when they take down people's channels when they ban people from adsense when they remove you from google index search when they do all this to with you it causes real demonstrable financial harm that you can prove in court but section 230 immunizes them from any consequences any legal consequences  of the damage they inflict so for instance if you are a gun store you're you run a store it's called sneeze feed and seed but you also sell guns facebook can deny you the ability to run advertisements at any time they can say well we don't like the fact that you sell guns and then if all of if most of your new customers are coming in from facebook ads then you're injured by this by this damage but because sexual uh 230 second paragraph that you cannot sue them for those damages you can't you can't challenge the decision to remove content at all


2:17:49
Unknown_01:  so without it it would get rid of like or it would greatly harm sites that have usually generated content like youtube right which obviously so many people upload to youtube there's no way for them to police all of that and make sure it's all not hate speech or whatever right correct like the fact is is that without section 230 um the the first paragraph


Unknown_04:  It would necessitate artificial intelligence for any sufficiently large platform. So if you think YouTube's policies suck now, wait until there's AI bots that are policing hate speech or whatever they think that'd be hate speech. This stream would already be taken down because the bot would definitely hear some combination of something I said and be like, beep, boop, this is offensive to someone probably, and then they would take it down.


2:18:48
Unknown_01:  Are there a lot of parties trying to repeal Section 230 right now?


Unknown_04: Yes. It's a complicated thing. Section 230 is always under fire because a lot of people want to sue big companies for damages that small fries create on them, specifically major media platforms that want to hold websites that in any way facilitate piracy, even indirectly. They want to hold them liable for that kind of stuff. So it is a big deal. Protecting Section 230 is important.  If they want to remove the second paragraph for things they can't be held liable for deleting stuff, that would also be good. But the thing is, I don't know if they can accomplish such a sophisticated undertaking without completely fucking everything up in the process.


2:19:32
Unknown_01: Yeah. Okay. Well, hopefully that doesn't get repealed because that would suck. That would really, really, really, really, really suck. I want to read a little bit of this case I sent you a link to.  In February, the Supreme Court will hear arguments in Gonzalez versus Google, and this decision could radically alter the ways that Americans use the Internet. The case centers on Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act, blah, blah, blah. Talk about what it means.  And basically they're saying that if the Supreme Court were to change the widely accepted application of Section 230, it would result in a digital experience for everyone that reflects the exact opposite of Congress's legislative intent. It would impede access to information, limit free expression, hurt the economy, and leave consumers more vulnerable to harmful online content. Don't take our word for it. A broad cross-section of experts, academics, organizations, and businesses from across America also recognize the importance of Section 230. I guess there's no details on the case here, unfortunately, but I kind of want to figure out what it is.  yeah solid you know i'd be interested um we'll go to the news tab um google playing stream court with worse fight over big tech looms you know stream court or maybe this one from voa news can you like search the term that case eff the letters eff they will have a very good breakdown oh yeah actually i donated them recently they gave me a t-shirt they hate me but i still support them i don't care


2:21:06
Unknown_04:  There you go.


Unknown_01: EFF amicus brief.


Unknown_01: This is like a court thing. I don't want to read this.


Unknown_01: Here we go. Blog. It doesn't look like they put out a real article about it. They just put out this court document or something.


Unknown_04: Okay, I'll pause. Google versus Gonzalez.


Unknown_04: Oh, this is in the European Union.


Unknown_01:  Battle for online speech, move to U.S. course, 2022 review.


Unknown_04: Okay, here it is. Gonzalez v. Google, docket 21-11-333 is a pending case of the Supreme Court of the United States, which deals with the question of whether or not recommender systems are covered by liability exemptions under Section 230 of the Telecommunications Act in dealing with terrorism-related content posted by users hosted on their servers. The case was granted certiorari alongside another Section 230 terrorism-related case, Twitter Inc. v. Tamim.  so i think that systems would be the algorithm yeah yeah i think that this is saying like should google be held reliable for recommending content like if you say like i'm vibing out to this isis video this like um the swinging swords isis anthem i really recommend more right  it'll be like do you want to watch this video by like isis propagandist like on the side should google be held liable for that um i would say no because that means that google would have to create some system to figure out what to recommend and i don't think that they should i think that they should recommend videos i want to see not black trans creators of the of the month i don't want to see that i would i would prefer to see the isis videos thank you very much


2:22:41
Unknown_04:  So that's it. Yeah. Section 230 in general should not be appealed or modified.


Unknown_01: I don't know why the court case started, but I can't seem to figure it out from a quick Google search on stream.


Unknown_01: Who's Gonzalez? Who's this?


Unknown_01: Speedy? The Rat? I love that guy.


Unknown_04:  I mean, it could be something stupid like, my kid died in a terrorism accident, and then they found out that the attacker was watching videos on YouTube. And then he's like, I want to sue YouTube for a million trillion dollars, because obviously YouTube has a lot of money. And that's basically every lawsuit.


2:23:13
Unknown_04: Just some fucking guy trying to make a buck. It's really disgusting. That's me.


Unknown_01:  Little update on some drama you talked about a while ago. Obviously, you know who Shoe On Head is. Are you aware that she got some drama with Hunter Avalon?


Unknown_04: I don't know who Hunter Avalon is. The name is the faintest level of familiarity possible.


Unknown_01:  hunter used to be this um like right-wing content creator on youtube and uh he he was like one of the biggest ones like like back 2015-16 he was like a big anti-sjw person but he was explicitly like i'm a conservative right that was his thing but um recently he's become more like left-wing like he made a video called like leaving the right and he's debated people like nick fuentes and john doyle but um recently that's where i went ahead and got some uh drama stuff  Yes, yes. He got in an argument with Shu on head, and I think Shu accused him of being okay with child porn, and somehow he owned her so bad that she deleted her own Twitter account.


2:24:09
Unknown_04: I thought she deleted her own Twitter account because someone paid her $50,000 to shut the fuck up.


Unknown_01:  Do you actually believe that? I don't believe that.


Unknown_04: Oh, that's what I was told.


Unknown_01: I've seen some people claiming that, but she deleted it at the same exact time that that argument went on. And according to Hunter, he seems to think that it was related to that. I don't believe someone gave her 50 grand.


Unknown_04: Here's my take on Shu. I hope she finds a nice man who's willing to tolerate the fact that her first boyfriend was a black guy that she has desperately tried to erase any evidence of. This guy, her first boyfriend, by the way, actually died.  he died yeah i've seen your stream about her yeah and she she said nothing about it and then after i pointed out the fact that he had died like in the stream she went that or like on the forum she went back and donated to like his funeral expenses after the fact because she found out from the forum but she doesn't want to it would hurt her image of being like a cute uwu trad wife italian lady i guess to know that her first boyfriend was a black guy  uh i'm just saying like i don't hold any ill will towards june i think that her body is screaming at her and this internet isn't making her happy and i hope that she finds a way out of the situation she is the thing is she already has a i i you know i'm sympathetic to her she already has a way out like she has a bunch of unless she spent all her money and we just don't know as far as i know she like lives with her parents she lives with her parents and she doesn't do anything like that's my understanding of her too it could be completely different because you only see a glimpse of people on the internet but  Um, well, that's what I'm saying.


2:25:47
Unknown_01: Like she has an out, like if she finds a man, like she has enough to financially support them and start a family for years, you know?


Unknown_04: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. Um, I don't know. I really don't know. I don't know what she's up to. I think that she is stuck between, um, a position where she likes the attention. She likes being famous. She likes the positive attention she gets online, but she, um, has other things in mind. And these two, um,  Not compatible. Yeah are not compatible She she has an incompatible lifestyle with what she wants to make of her life And it's not what armored skeptics up to recently.


2:26:23
Unknown_01: Oh his life.


Unknown_04: Yeah his He deserves about if anyone feels bad for armored skeptic after he dumped June he hooked up with this very attractive Australian woman. She got cancer. She had breast cancer. He immediately dumps her. Oh


Unknown_04:  So if you see him cry and say, nobody wants to watch my Bigfoot videos, then I'm like, eh, well... I've heard that.


Unknown_01: I don't... You know how true that is? Do we actually know that?


Unknown_04: I'm pretty sure. I would be surprised if my... Even if that is the case, like, okay, that's a shitty relationship scenario, but I...


Unknown_01:  i feel bad for him if he's like like broke like he's he's talking about how he's like starving i feel i feel bad i feel bad for anyone who goes broke like almost anyone who goes bro this dude this is like a pedophile i wouldn't care this dude was just in a relationship with june and he was in a relationship with someone else and he could have very easily made a very happy little life with himself in june he opted instead to treat her like a dog


2:27:16
Unknown_04:  And to break up with this woman because he had a cancer diagnosis. And now he's broke because he doesn't know how to put out entertaining content by himself. And it's like, you, my man, you fucked up your whole life. And I don't know if I'm supposed to be sad for that.


Unknown_01: I don't know that you're supposed to be sad. Maybe I'm just, uh, you know, I haven't, I haven't.  Known a lot of people like him, so I don't have the personal interaction. Maybe you have but with anyone I'm just looking at what's public.


Unknown_04: What's been made public. I'm not saying yeah Look at video of June the pine shoe on head at his feet with a collar on drinking out of a dog bowl That was his decision. He decided to live this life and I


2:27:52
Unknown_01:  i just feel bad for anyone who's like broke especially at his age like he's too old to be broke you know what i mean he's like 40. he's in a house he's saying that he can't afford his internet payment it's like you want to see broke move to bulgaria you'll see some broke ass people um he's doing just fine


Unknown_04:  You can get a job cold hearted, cold hearted, Josh, cold hearted. I look and don't even think that I'm like, I have no empathy. I have a lot of empathy for people, but I'm also, I'm also a Jada enough old man where I can just be like, yeah, you kind of did this to yourself. I mean, I hope this is a learning experience for you on how not to treat people and how to be thankful for what you have, which is an important lesson that everybody must learn if they're going to be happy.


2:28:26
Unknown_01: Yeah, I agree with that. It's good to, you got to learn how to treat people. Well, that's part of life, especially at his age. He's a little old to be.  I don't know. I mean, people can live their lives, whatever. But when I'm 40, I'm hoping I'm not like, you know, leaving some girl because her tits are going to get cut off. She has cancer or whatever. Like to even be in that situation in the first place is like you had to do some stuff to get there, you know.


Unknown_04:  I mean, maybe that's not even true.


Unknown_01: I mean, hopefully it's not, I don't, I don't, I don't know. Like once again, I've heard eight times from people. I don't know if it's real.


2:29:05
Unknown_04: And the thing is, it's like, I hear a lot of stuff and I try to assume that it might be a joke, whatever. I'm so often disappointed by how it's not.


Unknown_04: I try to assume the best and it's always the worst. I'm never proven. Right.


Unknown_00: Yeah. Yeah. Well,


Unknown_01:  Yeah. You gotta try, though. You gotta try. I can't always assume the worst of people.


Unknown_04: Try your best.


Unknown_01: You have to balance your naivete, your desired level of naivete, with realism.


Unknown_04: So that you don't hurt yourself in the process of just assuming the best of the people. Especially people who are close to you. You don't want to make friends with fucking losers.


2:29:41
Unknown_01:  yeah that's true well that's something i've become aware of i've talked about on stream like just not being not being friends with people who are you know soul sucks detriments to your life that's uh it's a little sam hyde advice probably i've taken but it's good to not be careful sam hyde advice that guy is crazy i he has good uh he has good especially art related advice and some of his life advice is good yeah


Unknown_04:  I don't know.


Unknown_01: He's crazy.


Unknown_04: I wouldn't want to be Sam Hyde. This is my point. As in some people in my life, Sam Hyde is like so famous. He is a million trillion dollars and yada yada. I don't want to be Sam Hyde. I'm not envious of the man. I think that some of what he's done is very funny.


2:30:13
Unknown_04: But definitely not thinking like, damn, I wish I could wake up and be Sam Hyde tomorrow.


Unknown_01:  I don't wake up and wish I could be him. I just think that he has some decent advice now and then, you know what I mean? Everybody has decent advice.


Unknown_04: That's another thing. Here's another skill that you have to learn eventually is everybody, not just you, but people in general. One of the main things that I had to learn in hosting my forum is how not only to find advice, but when...  How to discern good advice from bad advice? Because you'd be surprised at how good advice comes from unlikely sources if you really think it over. But bad advice also comes from good sources.


2:30:49
Unknown_04: You have to make a judgment call as part of being an adult on who's actually worth paying attention to. You don't want to shut out all advice, and you don't want to blindly listen to people either and assume, oh, well, he's successful, so he must know something that I don't.  or at least i wouldn't say that i just think that like sometimes when people when someone says something it has more experience than you like you shouldn't live your life totally based off of it but it might come in handy to just you know think about a little bit yeah yeah yeah you can think about whatever i mean i'm not saying you know i'm not one of these people that's like he's my internet dad or whatever which is a phenomenon a lot of people seem to have because i have an actual dad who gave me advice um that's that's a modern luxury you know


2:31:46
Unknown_01:  Yeah, apparently I've been told that. I mean, I just I think I just come from a nice area, like upper, upper middle class white people. So all the families are just together. Not a lot of divorces like good. I think Maine is 98% white. 95 for the problematic.


Unknown_01: I mean, I just had a nice childhood. I don't know what to say. I don't think it's necessarily related to that.


Unknown_01: But, you know,  No comment, dude. No comment. I had a good childhood. Don't make it a racist thing.


2:32:19
Unknown_07: Don't make it a racist thing, Josh, okay?


Unknown_01: I know you want to. Try not to. We're not gonna let you. Maine is wholesome. Okay? We're nice.


Unknown_04: I cannot find any coal to save my life. I'm over here trying to burn all the coal I can. I just can't find any.


Unknown_01: Okay.


Unknown_04: Yo.


Unknown_01: Go out! What's up?


Unknown_01: What's up? Oh. Oh.


Unknown_01:  Oh my god, okay. Hey girlfriend, can you make me food?


2:32:53
Unknown_01: No, I want grilled cheese. I think we do. We have the Italian bread or whatever.


Unknown_07: Make me like one grilled cheese and then we can go grocery shopping after I'm done on stream.


Unknown_01:  The one says Josh moon is poopy. Will you address these allegations?


Unknown_04: What is your chat? Like, by the way, I'm only looking at mine. Does your chat hate me? Do they think I'm like an insane person?


2:33:26
Unknown_01: No, I mean, they're my, my chat on this channel is more, um, kind of internet culture oriented. Like they're less normie just because like I'm on my second channel and I was on my main channel. I think a lot of them would be more dubious, but, um, I'm a second channel. Like I've talked about QB farmers on stream and stuff. So they're, they're not totally shocked for talking or anything.  it seems to be a lot of your a lot of like kiwi users in chat actually oh yeah because i advertise my stream some but i don't know yeah it probably is the algorithm you probably have people finding it naturally because they the algorithm knows susan lojiki knows that you use my site yeah maybe maybe maybe she knows it's like that you know that game theory meme with a picture of the riddler that says does he know it's like that you might not know that reference might be too esoteric for you


2:34:10
Unknown_04:  That's too Zoom rhetoric for me.


Unknown_01: I don't know anything about game theory.


Unknown_04: What the fuck is a game theory? Do they theorize about games?


Unknown_01: You've really never heard of MatPat Game Theory? No.


Unknown_01: It's like one of the biggest gaming channels on YouTube.


Unknown_01: It's like theory videos about... I haven't watched in a while. What is Bowser, Princess Peach's real grandfather?


Unknown_04: Is that kind of shit?


Unknown_01:  It's stuff like that. The series that got him really big was about Five Nights at Freddy's, which I'm sure you know.  And he was just, like, theorizing about the story. But unironically, there's some really crazy shit that has come out of the Game Theory channel. One of them was there's this other host other than MatPat. MatPat is the main guy, the most famous guy. He had this host on for a while named Gaijin Goomba, who he gave his own series. Ooh, that sounds familiar. He's fat. He's just a fat guy. He really likes, like, Pokemon and, I don't know, Mario or whatever. Let's see.  But he had this series called, I think Culture Shock was the name of it. And one of them was about how the Minecraft villagers are actually Jewish.


2:35:17
Unknown_04: Because they've got big noses.


Unknown_01: I don't think that was his reasoning entirely. One of them is like the golem.


Unknown_04:  yeah that's the thing from uh jewish folklore is that um the golem was like a a thing brought to life by by the hebrews and i think it's not a totally meritless like thing but it's just it's funny that there was like a video on youtube about that and their merchants the story of the golem is actually really fascinating it's um i think that how it goes is that the the hebrews created life effectively and that pissed off jehovah so they were punished for it  So the golem rose up and destroyed them for punishment of creating life.


2:35:53
Unknown_00: So the golem is often used as a metaphor for like a Frankenstein's monster when the creation rises up and destroys the creator.


Unknown_01:  yeah like ai like ai when ai decides that um susan waziki should belong in the pits they're gonna the ai is going to file a police report and say that she was found guilty of something and then she's already starting her prison sentence then the ai police bots will arrest her is ai like anywhere at all like is it even


2:36:31
Unknown_04:  Um, when you talk about AI, usually talk about machine learning and machine learning is very impressive. Um, but it's mostly, it's mostly a surveillance apparatus. It's mostly like recognizing faces. The Chinese use it extensively. Chinese people, the Chinese government has street like cameras on every street corner. Nobody watches these, but they go through the program. It matches people's faces. And then it records that this person was at this place at this time and they can keep track of like crimes and shit.


Unknown_01:  like a mat like that's not true intelligence it's just like a math algorithm right yeah there's artificial intelligence it's it's impossible to say if even such a thing is is possible because if you like let's say you took me and you put me on a computer and it could replicate this conversation to its completion without a hitch the thing is it's like is that really


2:37:22
Unknown_04:  Is that really like a human? Is that really a person? I mean, the human the human brain is just so complex.


Unknown_01: Like how many cells make it up, like hundreds of millions or whatever of brain cells like billions? Yeah, it's such an impossibly like complex thing to even comprehend. Like we can't even simulate like like an infant's brain.


Unknown_04:  Here, if you like playing video games for your fans, I actually played through kind of like a walking simulator type game called Soma, S-O-M-A. Soma is the Latin word for life, and it kind of touches on this concept of what is life in this sort of artificial intelligence, where the line between life and artificial intelligence is blurred.


2:38:02
Unknown_04: If you have an interest in this topic, you might enjoy that game, and your audience may also enjoy it.


Unknown_01:  Check out Soma. Any other media recommendations? I looked at your music playlist and I saw a Slipknot song and I was very pleased.


Unknown_04:  My my music list is very eclectic. I like to add stuff over basically decades to that list That's the only slipknot song I like What time when you're string we talked about liking a roll-in by Limp Bizkit because your mom used to listen to it.


Unknown_01: Oh hell. Yeah Hot dog hot dog water in the water. Yeah, the starfish and hot dog flavored water fire album.


2:38:38
Unknown_04: I do like that. Um, I like Media well, there's okay. There's a book


Unknown_04:  I don't even know if I want to bully you with this book suggestion. Go ahead, bully me. So there's a doctor out there, Dr. Theodore Kaczynski. Oh, my God.


Unknown_01: He wrote a book called Industrial Society and Its Future.


Unknown_04: And if you are ever interested in especially literature written by eclectic authors, you may enjoy Dr. Theodore Kaczynski's essay, Industrial Society and Its Future.


2:39:13
Unknown_01:  I'm aware of, yeah.


Unknown_04: You're aware of Mr. Kaczynski? He's a mathematician. He's very famous, actually.


Unknown_01: Yeah, I know who he is, yeah. I'm aware of his other work in...  The detonation field. Pyrotechnics. Yeah, pyrotechnics. There you go. Yeah, I'm aware of his work.


Unknown_01: You're doing yourself a lot of favors on this stream, talking about the racism community.


Unknown_04: I'm not here to impress anybody. I genuinely suggest that. It's not even a joke. The things that he talks about are very prescient. He makes a point about things that you're not allowed to talk about, but he explains why you're not allowed to talk about them.  um it's not a book that act i mean it might but it doesn't actively call for violence it's very very interesting and if you are someone who's interested in especially like abnormal psychology and weirdos and stuff ted kaczynski was an interesting person and he wrote a thing that he was very passionate about and had a clear rational through thought on why he thought the way that he did  and some of it you read and you're like wow i can't believe that somebody wrote this in like the the you know the 70s it feels it feels impossible that someone could have written this in the 70s um if you are brave enough can you teleport me i did read i read a little bit of a book recently i haven't i haven't read in a long time sorry what's up can you teleport me to you i've lost myself lost yourself yeah yeah i can tell for you tp what a retarded name you have on minecraft  American Diaspora. It's not retarded.


2:40:43
Unknown_01: Make your name like Poopbutt or something cool like that. Poopbutt. There's a million Poopbutts. Make it WKiwi. WKiwi.


Unknown_04: Then I get banned by Microsoft because this isn't a single-player game anymore.


Unknown_01: Oh, yeah, that's true. You will be banned, probably.


Unknown_01: Actually, technically, now that your name is on stream, they might ban your account anyway.


Unknown_04: That's okay. I've only had it since 2011.


Unknown_01: Yeah.  Do you play Minecraft at all? I assume not, because you were trying to figure out how to install it, I think.


Unknown_04: No, I've installed it every so often. I played it with my cousins when I was younger. I still had cousins.


2:41:16
Unknown_01:  I've always had this question about, there's this picture of you that I like a lot in a striped shirt. I think it was when you were working with 8chan. Can you explain that experience of working with 8chan and what that was like?


Unknown_01: It was very stressful.


Unknown_04: For your job?  basically i pitched i started i was invited okay this is a long story i'll start at the beginning when the kiwi farms was very very new uh we had a threat on wizard chan wizard chan was an image board ran by incels or incel frederick brennan the crippled guy that ran hn um was the head wizard of wizard champ he was an incel  We had a thread on wizard Chan and we made fun of the Wizards and Frederick Joined the site directly and he talked to me for a bit and he said, you know, he didn't have any ill will and I


2:42:06
Unknown_04:  we weren't really friends but we kind of had like an understanding we we uh got along just fine and then at a certain point he decides um actually what happens is he gets a girlfriend and he has sex and this is the ultimate betrayal to the wizards uh so he ends up getting ousted from his position as uh head as head mage right yeah and um


Unknown_04:  Then he boots up another project, which, of course, is an image board. And this time it's Reddit meets 4chan. His words, not mine. And that was 8chan. So two greatest things ever in one.


2:42:52
Unknown_00: Yeah, peanut butter and chocolate.


Unknown_04: It's the best.  So he starts getting to work on it. And then during Gamergate, it has a big uptick in like users because of all the people leaving V because of the Gamergate shit. And he needs mods. And what's a mod of a big website that he knows about? Well, it's me. So he invites me over and says, Josh, I need mods for the Kiwi Farms. Would you mind?


2:43:24
Unknown_04: Would you mind helping me out? I said, of course, I'd be interested to do that. So it was a global volunteer.  And while I was a global volunteer, there were moderation issues related to GamerGate where I had to do a lot of manual moderation. And I thought I could make these tools better. So I did. I submitted work to 8chan to improve the moderation tools.  And then while working on it, I realized 8chan software sucks. I said, Frederick, we can take this and we can rebuild it and we can make it better. And he took a little persuading, but after a while he saw the light. He said, that's right. We need Infinity Next.  So, I started working on Infinity Next. 8chan got acquired by the guy who took over, Jim Watkins, the guy who's now the QAnon guy. And he and I never got along. He hated me.


2:43:55
Unknown_04: And he sort of wanted the project to fail. I think he offered no sponsorship, no help. The main thing is that he wanted to own it outright.  And I told him I already crowdfunded $12,000 for a open license. And I don't even think it's legal for me to close the license now. And it's like, to be honest, I don't even want to.


2:44:32
Unknown_04: And his response was to literally get up and storm out of the coffee place we're at in the federal range.  um but you know while i was there i hung out with jim and i hung out with um a bunch of interesting people i went to japan for christmas i saw star wars in theater in hokkaido and i had a very interesting and memorable time and uh the 8chan's fate is genuinely one of the saddest things that i have to deal with it is um i really felt like  It's still around. It's just a zombie.


2:45:06
Unknown_01: It is? I thought it was like dead now. Just a zombie.


Unknown_04: And it's a deep personal failure of mine. I did not save HM because I loved it a lot. It's a sad story.


Unknown_04: It is. It's very sad.


Unknown_01:  It involves GamerGate. I was curious about your thoughts on GamerGate because GamerGate was like, that happened right before I was really online. Like I really came online like 2015, 16 when I was like 14. So GamerGate was right before my kind of time. And I kind of understand it, but I don't totally understand it. And I'm just kind of curious what your impression of what happened there was. Because you've talked about it a little bit and how you think that it's kind of the origin of cancel culture.


2:45:39
Unknown_04:  It was cuz what happened is is it started over a Game thing like Zoe Quinn put out a game It was basically just a website that you could click through choose your own adventure type thing very very primitive Not really what most people would consider a video game, but it won all these awards for like best indie game  and it came out that zoe quinn was the guys who were involved in all these publications and she got best any game because they they were her and it kind of shocked people that the media is lying even you know it's it's a small media right the gaming it's just lying to people  For stupid shit. And people at the time, they held up the media in such high esteem. They broke all the leaked papers by Snowden and WikiLeaks. And then all these great undercover investigations that people remember the media doing. And people just assumed the media is...  you know the fourth pillar of our democratic society it's important that we have these companies that are publishing stories and financing investigation and then even though it was just games journalism the fact that after this happened and people started this outrage that mainstream publications came to the defense of the games journalist companies and they were all like involved with each other through advertisers and through  uh owners and and media networks and they people a lot of people realize a lot of people who were just completely asleep myself included realize these people are all fucking liars and there is not a shred of dignity between the lot of them  and that that was sort of gamer gate and that's why it became like this big thing because a lot of people were just like wait a second if i've been lied to my entire life about something as stupid as this what else have i been lied to and when you start asking questions like that it leads you down a dark hole that you you don't ever come out of


2:47:12
Unknown_01:  But how would that be the origin of cancel culture? Is it because of what people did to the journalists?


Unknown_04: Well, they started it. They wanted these publications to hurt. So what did they do? They went after all the financial estimates. They emailed the fuck out of all their advertisers and ad networks. They went after individual companies that were sponsoring Kotaku. And the end result is that their advertisers left in droves and Kotaku went bankrupt.


2:47:59
Unknown_01:  Right.


Unknown_04: And now that's just, that's just what everyone does.


Unknown_01: And that was kind of a, that was like a right wing movement though, or like at least not, it wasn't left wing. It was more sort of, you know, of that ilk, right? Gamer game. Yeah, it was definitely, it was more. Like Mr. Medeker, he was more right wing.


Unknown_04:  yeah it's hard it's really hard to put like a definition to you because it was just games it was literally just games there's this really uh but it was like a big part of it was like anti-identity politics and games yes because it was a lot of stuff it's hard to say gamergate was eggs because to everybody it meant something completely different ultimately yeah


2:48:48
Unknown_01:  What was it to you? It was just, it was like a waking up moment of like, well, these journalists are liars and they need some shit on. To me it was a big fucking problem because I had to keep, here's what, this is what got me to start developing for HN was that Gamergate had this image war.


Unknown_04: They wanted to say, we're not like a harassment campaign. We're just trying to get ethics and games journalism. So the Gamergate board owner did not allow doxing.  and then zoe quinn got ducks on another board that was called like war or something and that was just like a completely like an old fan is that what this is this is on a channel so the the slash gg board did not allow doxing zoe quinn got dox on uh gj it got deleted immediately  But then the guy reposted the information to a different board. And I was the GVOL on the on the only one awake at the time. It hundreds 600 plus reports came in on this one post on more saying, guys, Gamer Gators, we got to rally around to report and flag down this docs because we have to protect our image.  And I just rejected, I had to go one by one over hours and reject these reports, one after the others. And then I put out like a cap-coded statement like, there is no rule against Ox on 8chan. And this got reported on as like, evil 8chan Gamergate website attack. Zoe wants to murder her. And that's how that got started. So the first contribution I ever made to 8chan was a way to dismiss all reports on one post so that I would never have to go through and click 600 fucking dismiss buttons again.


2:50:05
Unknown_05:  thank you damn well that's a really interesting story i uh i'm planning to do a video about gamergate uh i do have a script written about it so i was kind of curious your view of it but um the script is 27 000 words uh which would roughly equate to like a three hour 20 minute video so i'm kind of just avoiding even getting started on it but because there's so much in there but um


2:50:46
Unknown_01:  It's kind of and it's kind of weird to think about because you know, there is like a meme that it all goes back to Gamergate But in a way it kind of does I mean the whole like without Gamergate there wouldn't have been a video No, no on Gamergate in general. Oh god, dude When that happened younger you were like 11 I  Yeah, yeah, yeah.


Unknown_01: Yeah, well, 2014, I was 12, so yeah.


Unknown_01: But yeah, so it's kind of like a big undertaking. The script is really long, but it is, you know, it does all go back to there, because without Gamergate, there wouldn't have been anti-SJW guys. Like, you wouldn't have had Chew on Head. And without them, you wouldn't have had BreadTube. Without BreadTube, you wouldn't have had Keffles. And it's just like, it's this whole, like, the whole internet, like, goes back to there, you know.


2:51:33
Unknown_04:  Yeah, a lot changed. That's when that's a lot changed in that era, not just involving


Unknown_04:  gamer gate and video games and shit like that uh when around 20 or 2008 if you looked at the top 10 most popular websites in the world um it was very diverse there was a huge number of websites or sorry not top 10 but the the 50 of web traffic went to thousands of websites in 2008 and then by 2012 it was hundreds of websites and now it's like three companies  Half of all internet traffic is monopolized by a dozen websites owned by three companies. But in 2008 and 2012, it was only just starting to narrow. And the options for having a choice in who you patronize was just starting to limit. That was when Obama was just getting in for the second term.  And I think he posted – he allowed legislation to pass that allowed the CIA to directly – he repealed the laws, what it was, that allowed the CIA or prohibited the government from –  It was about propaganda. The government was not allowed to propagandize the people, the U.S. citizens. So he basically made propaganda legal. And it's just a lot all changed at once. And the world became so much, the world is so interconnected now and so big, but it's so small all at the same time. It's way smaller than it used to be. And that's the real sad shit.


2:52:44
Unknown_01: Yeah.


Unknown_01: I mean, that's kind of a,  a black filling thing, do you think it could ever be reversed or is it, we're not here now?


Unknown_04: I can tell you right now, the one thing that could happen in overnight, like spring open the doors of creativity online. And that is if payment networks,  mastercard visa card discover amex were legally required to allow any legal business to use their service because right now they are not only allowed to arbitrarily terminate service with basically anyone for any reason or no reason at all they're essentially required to  uh title three of the patriot act which is now shuffled into some new legislation makes it so that the government puts the onus of stopping certain financial crimes on the banks and if they accidentally prevent it they're criminally and civilly liable for whatever the government wants to throw at them these companies are like psychotic and stopping risky businesses and as a result so many um startup companies are cut off at the knees immediately where they can't process credit cards  and if i was allowed to just run a credit card processor and charge people for you know stupid like something awful has i would be able to do so much i would be able to hire people and pay for i would pay people for the things they already provide me that they deserve more money for and tons of so that alone would overnight like reshape the internet because right now the huge reason why these companies hold a monopoly is that they there is no competition allowed  uh it it's just um because the banks don't allow people to to run their own business yeah well hopefully hopefully that's something that can be fixed in the future i'd imagine it would take a lot of money to even try to figure that out um i know there's a bunch of alt tech going on right now with odyssey and whatever and i i'm not totally you know sold that any of those sites are going to have major success but i like the spirit of it  yeah the main thing is um there's always a way you know there's crypto and if it means that we'll have to mail checks to each other and so be it because there's apps now that you i'm gonna look into see if there's a phone app that lets me cash pictures of checks without having to have the check in my hand physically  and it's like if that's how we're going to have to do it fine people people will eventually even though they're very lazy and very slow to adopt alternative technologies like you know odyssey and rumble they will eventually and they will get more irritated with the way things are going and they will eventually give up and start looking again um like with my bank you can uh


2:55:21
Unknown_01:  like just take a picture of a check if you have it and then you can cash it that way without having to go to the bank yeah for sure for sure you can do that um the main thing is that i i don't have like a a person to receive mail for me because they harassed they harassed the fucking indian guy who forwarded my mail to me until he resigned so now i don't even have a mail forwarder


Unknown_04:  It's like they try to strip you of everything. They try to strip you of legal services, essential services, business services, and it's nauseating. But for as long as I can, I'll try to deal with it.


Unknown_01: There's a will, there's a way. There's a will, there's a way. That's what I always say.


2:56:12
Unknown_01: Now that you told me to say that. It's true.


Unknown_01: Okay, well, that's good to hear.


Unknown_04: Is there anything else? Because I think I have to get off now.


Unknown_01:  I just have a few short questions about something awful. If you don't mind it, then I'll get through.


Unknown_04: Right.


Unknown_01: So someone who made us something awful documentary messaged me about this because they wanted to get their questions read.


Unknown_01: Fuck, where is he? Okay.


Unknown_01: You mentioned offering to help low tax with a site and even being in calls with them before. What were those like? And how did that relationship start and end?


2:56:45
Unknown_04:  So, yeah, I guess I forgot about this. So there's a period where, if you don't know, low tax ran a website called Something Awful. Something Awful has sometimes been mistakenly credited as the progenitor of the Kiwi Farms.  It's not directly. I think bad spot was a goon, but that's about as far, maybe blocking forums, which has more of the vibe that I think the site's taken on, but that it was a goon. Anyways, something awful was going through a period briefly where basically low tax was an pill head. He was a lazy piece of shit, worthless pill head.  and his mods had taken over his site for him, but because he got to collect the money, he didn't really care. Well, there came a day where his old friend, a super important contributor to something awful called Schmorky, was outed as a pedophile, basically. And Schmorky was someone that Lotex had to let his daughter around when she was a very little girl. So this was something that was very personal to him. It angered him deeply.  in the the issue was smorky was non-binary so people were like whoa goons fellow goons we can't make fun of this when we when we criticize this pedophile into diaper play and children we got to make sure that we do this the right way and don't bring up the fact that he's non-binary  And low taxes like wait a second if I go to Kiwi Farms this website that all of you hate and say is the worst place on Earth there there's so much funny stuff about this that I like and why are we not like this? We used to be like this and there was a part where he almost wanted to Fix the site and I said low tax. I will help you upgrade your site. I'll fucking handle the service for you You make so much money  Just pay me this like $20,000. I'll clear the site for you been trying to go for eight years I will help you I will I will help you get rid of these fucking people and I will help you correct the ship and make it your site that you like again and He didn't want to and that's it and then he died he killed himself and


2:58:49
Unknown_01:  Yeah, bought his Nissan GTR, leased it or whatever, and then ended his own life. He had a few short follow-up questions, if you don't mind, about low tax, then I'll let you get off. Okay. All right. At one point, Rich was genuinely beloved by a lot of the internet. Did your perspective on Rich change over the years, especially after getting the perspective of hosting a forum yourself?


Unknown_04:  um so the issue is i don't know too much about him there were some things early on in the forum that i tried to copy from something awful i um for instance i had like a fake law uh law personality called lauren o'landry that i used for like maybe one or two years and of course the acronym for lauren o'landry is lol  He had a similar fake lawyer that answered shitty legal complaints in snarky ways. And I think that Lotex was a genuinely talented humorist. His writing was funny sometimes. And I liked his post on the forum. He often made me laugh.  um so respect to the guy for like doing his business and getting set up and stuff but that's about all i can say he was definitely destroyed by his pill addiction um he was definitely so numb to the the concept of feeling pain that any discomfort was you know unacceptable to him


3:00:07
Unknown_01:  All right. Just a few more questions. What place do you think Rich has in online history in both the most charitable sense of how he shaped it as well as like the negative kind of personal flaws? I guess you kind of answered that already with how you felt. But I mean, do you still like pay a lot of respect to him in a way for like something awful? And it paved the way a little bit, you would say probably for Kiwi, even if it's not like the inception, right?


Unknown_04:  hard to say because again i wasn't around at its prime time i was always on 4chan i didn't have uh money for for an account so i never joined something awful um but even something awful i think inspired uh inspired 4chan in some ways i mean like for sure i i respect him for


3:00:52
Unknown_04:  for for what he did but the fact is that he gave up without a fight and his memory is now that he left his he left multiple children without even a suicide note he didn't even leave a suicide note explaining that why he was going to kill himself he pussied out to the highest degree possible and i have no respect for him for that i guess the last question would be where is schmorky where is schmorky yeah he changed his name to to uh stone toss he's doing quite well  At last I heard his NFT sale went really well.


Unknown_01: Fuck off.


Unknown_01: You do actually not know. This is just now. No one knows.


Unknown_04: No, nobody knows. He got out as a pedophile and he hid. And I think that people might have found some accounts that might have been him. But the stone toss one is the funniest narrative. So that's the one that I'll stick to.


Unknown_01: Yeah, it is funny.


Unknown_01: Yeah, definitely the same guy. No doubt. All right. Well, appreciate you coming on stream, buddy. Is there anything you want to I guess I'll do the due diligence. I think we're going to plug before we cut it off.


Unknown_04:  um no not really i do a pod your fans probably won't like it it's called meta the internet m-a-t-i dot live matthew.net.com um yeah like i don't want to like show my website i'm going to say come visit the kiwi farms you'll probably not like it if you're you know if pronouns are important to you and you think that it's a human right to be called the pronoun that that you expect  um my main thing to especially young people is don't give in to like sorrow i think so many people are just willing to like excuse themselves from responsibility by saying there's no point even trying to do anything about it there's not as long as you breathe there there are things you can do and uh they want you they want you hopeless and if if if it was already hopeless we would not even even these little conversations wouldn't be possible


3:02:11
Unknown_01:  Okay, gotcha. All right. Well, appreciate you coming on. I'll let you go. But yeah, thank you for coming on. I think it was a good stream. People liked it. As I said, it was, I think, my most viewed stream ever that I can remember 1,200 people. So yeah, appreciate everyone who came out. I'll hang up on you. I'm going to read my own super chats. But yeah, take care, buddy. See ya.


Unknown_04: Take it easy. Okay. Sorry, I'll check my super barriers and then I'm tired. So I'm going to play like a game of Dota maybe.  Okay for the people six people who donated you let fans any success Do you think you could ever stream a few Simpsons episodes at some point? Um, I am what I might do Gumroad content. I think I said I was gonna look at like the One of the most recent Simpsons and then watch one that people tell me to watch I don't know if I would ever stream it though. I might just do like a running commentary or clip something together Danny for 777 says hey George George stir  I ordered three packs of patches less than an hour after they went on sale. I know you're not shipping them, but do you think I'll get them by the end of the month? I'm moving on the 29th. Yes. The patches are in inventory, and they should be going out on Monday for the next 500 people. Ah, fuck, I should have, shouldn't I? I'll tell him, actually.


3:03:51
Unknown_05: Uh...


Unknown_05:  Which one should I shill? By the way, tell your fans to get on Fediverse, like post.com or chudbuds. It's Twitter, but not gay.


Unknown_05: KiwiFriends.cc was a thing, but now it's not because of the platforming, but it might come back soon.


3:04:27
Unknown_04:  okay that's i sent the message uh jamie chameleon for five says jersh is crushing tidal waves a box thanks to his plant much respect i'm currently building a garden hey hey you don't know man women women like a plant they respect plant chads  I frequently ban people who post outright bullshit. I do not want people to just make shit up on the forum.  frog god for five says if you kill a frog in this game you're going to be sent to an unhappy frog zone also jail i'm also always watching you close sky since that machine and pigs gameplay mr prune always watching i didn't even see a frog i didn't see any coal either i didn't see a lot of stuff that i needed unfortunately to get my build anywhere near completion that's how it is


3:05:26
Unknown_04:  All right. Well, thanks for watching, I suppose. I hope you have enjoyed my little chat. Take it easy. Bye-bye.