0:00:00 Unknown_00: you can be kind of good at it right well in his case he just never gets better um it's uh for people listening because a lot of people probably probably aren't 100 tuned in or don't don't follow the low tech stuff closely because a lot of people from from my sphere aren't goons so just uh real quick uh what is your association with something awful and what is your association with low techs Unknown_02: Um, uh, okay. So first of all, my name is Logan day, uh, at something awful. I, um, was the COO. Um, people kind of joke that, um, I had a very, you know, I, I had a, I was like a pixel pusher kind of job because I was also in a committed relationship with low tax. Unknown_00: uh from my memory and my memory is poor so feel free to correct me but what i remember was low tax fervently denying at the time when he went out to to utah uh that you guys were not in a relationship and it was strictly business was that true then um no um i will say however that there was a script um because that was that was our cover story right is that um 0:01:24 Unknown_02: he was coming out to pitch a script because I have experience pitching scripts. Unknown_02: Somebody actually asked me from Kiwi Farms about that. Unknown_02: But anyway, he had a script called Cybertroll 2000 that I thought was funny. And I had a guy who was interested in investing in Unknown_02: indie film and it was you know it was an absolute disaster trying to pitch that script but that wasn't the uh that wasn't the the primary reason no um so am i allowed to say the name of your company the one that you emailed me from uh yeah giants in the sky yeah is that the the company that you used to pitch the script of this uh uh no actually uh so i uh i kind of pivoted um because i i was working in hollywood i worked at disney and sony and i just wasn't really feeling the whole corporate thing so i decided to start my own business doing um like creative for advertising marketing um you know i'm also a developer so i make a lot of websites what do you uh what language do you use 0:02:13 Unknown_00: Well, JavaScript, sorry. Unknown_02: I don't know why I stuttered there. JavaScript completely. I'm really shitty with backend. So it's like, you know, I'll... Unknown_02: Yeah, but I really enjoy UI and UX, you know, and so I would say, yeah, primarily front end for me. Unknown_00: So the Giants in the Sky company was the PR company that you ran that was going to be taking over kind of refurbishing of something awful. And Lotex, did he meet you through trying to find a PR person or did he know you on Facebook or? 0:03:15 Unknown_02: Yeah, we actually met because I found his Facebook profile through a mutual friend. It's actually kind of a funny story that he pissed her off with a joke about suicide. And she didn't find it very funny. And I was like, holy shit, is this the Rich Kayenka? Because the last time I thought about Rich Kayenka was when I was... 16, 17, after I stopped posting on the forums. 0:03:54 Unknown_02: So I was like, damn, this is kind of a blast from the past. And so I started commenting, engaging with his posts. Unknown_02: And we didn't start talking until the actual post said something along the lines of, why don't people recognize just how great my posts are? And I was the first comment, and I said something, I don't recall exactly what I said, but I said something along the lines of, well, maybe people would kiss your ass more if you acknowledge your orbiters more. 0:04:38 Unknown_02: He was like, what's an orbiter? And so I had to explain. And I distinctly remember that his reply was, let's orbit, baby. And that's all it took. Unknown_00: That was the line that reeled you in. You're like, oh, this guy's got what I like. Unknown_02: No, no. Well, his his wife showed up in that thread and she I forget what she said. It was it was just it was basically like a back off message. And I was like, OK. And so I just I messaged him and I was like, hey, is your wife mad at me? And he replied, probably. and i was like well let her know i'm sorry you know and we i we genuinely just started talking casually you know and we talked casually for like a month or so before um we got into like the heavy of well that answer is actually one of my questions i was going to ask was like did you know that he was in a relationship when he met him but i guess that uh kind of answers itself out of curiosity did the fact that he have a wife make him more appealing No, see, all right. 0:05:45 Unknown_02: He's a very good liar. He is a very good liar. He the way he put it was that he was actually very public about this on his Facebook, that his wife never fucked him. Unknown_02: And in his explanation to me, he said that it's an absolute love this marriage. It's the absolute, you know, and they had already agreed on a divorce. It was just a matter of like stagnation at that point. Um, and I never talked to his wife. Um, but I, I just bought this all hook, line and sinker, you know, cause I was like, you know, uh, and it's like, yeah, they were still married at the time. And I, you know, obviously looking back, it was a real, it was a real bitch scumbag move of me to like have an affair with this guy. It's just that I bought that lie that, um, 0:06:18 Unknown_02: they were already planning on a divorce at the, at the very least they were, you know, preparing to separate and, and, uh, yeah, I realized that I fucked up big time with that. Um, you know, I guess I earned the title of home wrecker. 0:06:59 Unknown_02: Um, but, uh, you know, the, the reality of the situation was that, uh, um, Unknown_02: Well, you said people don't exactly know the story. So can I kind of hash out kind of what resulted? Because you briefly mentioned he came to Salt Lake City to see me. Unknown_00: Yeah, well, I mean... Yeah, sure. So the story thus far is that you guys met on Facebook because you were a fan of Something Awful when you were a teenager. You recognized him. You started talking to him. And he sort of... I guess you kind of reached out to him and he reciprocated. And then after his wife interjected, you guys kept talking. And then eventually he flew out to Salt Lake City. Was there anything significant that happened between those events? 0:07:39 Unknown_02: Yeah, well, we talked a lot about... Unknown_02: you know, how we grew up and that we had a lot of trauma. Unknown_02: You know, it's no secret for people that I'm a little bit troubled. I have bipolar disorder diagnosed. Um, and so I've struggled with that for a long time and, uh, thankfully it's managed now. I will say that, but, um, you know, we talked about trauma. Um, let's see what else, uh, oh, I guess the big catalyst was, um, 0:08:16 Unknown_02: like late October, early November, my therapist of two years, I was in, I was doing a therapy for like DBT therapy because, um, I was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. Unknown_02: DBT is dialectical behavioral therapy and is considered the only treatment for borderline personality disorder. Um, and I, I had a very intensive treatment for that. I was very obsessed with overcoming those symptoms. 0:08:51 Unknown_02: And I was in therapy for two years. And around late October, early November 2019, my therapist sexually assaulted me. And it was extremely traumatic. And I wasn't telling anyone. But I told Rich for some reason, because I didn't super know this guy. He was just like, 0:09:25 Unknown_02: you know i was i was like there's there's no consequence if i tell this guy right like if i told my friends then they might yeah there might be some response you know they might push you to do things you don't want to do as opposed to yeah she's a safe bet Yeah, yeah, that was exactly my thinking. And, you know, I told a few of my friends and some of my friends were like, wow, that's fucked up. That sounds like some HBO shit. Unknown_02: Whereas Rich, his response was, you need to report him. Like, he seemed genuinely concerned for my mental health. He was the only person who was like, wow, this is incredibly fucked up. I'm so sorry this happened to you. You deserve better than that. You need to report him. And he was really adamant about it because I was I didn't want to report my therapist, you know, because I didn't want to, you know, ruin the guy's life, you know. And, you know, Rich was really adamant about it. And it's actually, it was, you know, when he flew out here to Salt Lake City, I went to the licensing board and spoke with the investigator. 0:10:10 Unknown_02: And Rich was sitting outside waiting. Unknown_02: So that was the big catalyst is when he said, Unknown_02: gave a shit about me being assaulted and then uh you know really pushing me to uh do the healthy thing did you guys have a plan to have a physical relationship in salt lake city before he arrived 0:10:58 Unknown_02: Oh, yeah, yeah. Unknown_00: Just curious. So, yeah, I think from what I understand, I mean, I think it's all speculation. I don't know for sure. Unknown_00: But I'm pretty sure, based on what people have said, that him being away over Thanksgiving in particular is what pushed her to try and... Unknown_00: Actually, I forgot until now that she didn't just leave him. She didn't just file for divorce. She fled the house. She took the kid and just left the house over the Thanksgiving holiday. When he came back from Salt Lake, she was gone. That's when one of my favorite streams that Rich ever did was the one where 0:11:30 Unknown_00: People were asking questions about why his wife was in a battered woman shelter and he was having fun on YouTube. That's probably the peak of gaming garbage. Unknown_02: No, the peak of gaming garbage was when he did live bands on... That was the same stream. January 1st. Oh, really? Oh, shit. 0:12:05 Unknown_00: Okay, keep going. I mean, I guess it was a little bit after, but it had been brewing, kind of. It was one of those things, like a precursor to Low Tech's being kind of kicked out of something awful was the divorce stuff going on. So after... I'm trying to remember, when did you move from Salt Lake City to live with... Unknown_02: Okay, so Rich showed up on November 14th, and he was here until, I want to say, November 20... 0:12:42 Unknown_02: six. Yeah, November 26. Because it was like November 24, or 25, that he learned that his wife had fled to a domestic violence shelter. Unknown_02: And so he flew back home. And then I flew out to meet him on the 27th. So he and I spent Thanksgiving Thanksgiving together on the 28th. And Unknown_02: Uh, I was out there pretty often, you know, um, I would say I would spend a month at a time and then I would come back to my apartment here in Salt Lake city for three weeks or something. And I would go back out. I w I was, I was spending a lot of time in Missouri for sure. 0:13:24 Unknown_00: So literally like the day he came back to, uh, where he lives, he flew you out to be with him and you stayed there for a month. Unknown_02: Um, Unknown_02: Yeah, yeah, I didn't spend Christmas with him. I do know that Christmas and New Year's were not spent together. Unknown_00: Was he paying for the flights? Unknown_02: Oh, yeah, yeah. Unknown_00: Okay. Yeah. So during this time, during the honeymoon period, were there any problems? Because this is when I remember you coming on board and people trying to warn Lotex, don't do this. This is a mistake. And he was like, no, no, no. This is brand management, strictly business. He made very public announcements about you coming on board as the chief operating officer, the CEO. Yeah. and uh from actually you know to your credit from what i've learned from people who are moderators and admins on something awful apparently you did uh do the best job of trying to corral people together the staff to talk to each other than low techs had done uh in the prior decade so i mean it's not i that's that's what i've been told does that line up with uh with what you understand 0:14:46 Unknown_02: Well, that's very kind of them to say that. Yeah, I had a team of 22 people that I dealt with directly on a Slack. It was writers, developers, you know, I was interacting with the people who make the apps, the awful apps. Unknown_02: I had some social media people. Unknown_02: And, you know, obviously I was an admin. I was an admin strictly to be able to make announcements. I did absolutely no ads. moderating. I had no interest in moderating. But I had access to the mod form. And, you know, people were rightly suspicious of me. 0:15:18 Unknown_02: You know, who wouldn't, right? Who's this random 25-year-old girl who is probably a little unhinged? You know, what is she doing here? And, you Unknown_02: You know, I also made an ass of myself in front of the community a few times. Um, cause my, my, uh, my method is to fail really hard over and over and over until, you know, I get it right. And so, um, I started, I mean, it was, it was kind of funny when I first started working, um, because. 0:15:53 Unknown_02: You know, there were all these people that were doing things for something awful that Rich never acknowledged. He never talked about that. Like, you know, I sent out a call for the front page, you know, who wants to write. And, you know, people were sending me proposals, but then they were also, you know, they were like, hey, have you talked to... Unknown_02: this guy, cause he does Photoshop Friday. And, um, also that I, I forget how I learned about Jeff free of Yas boss, but, uh, I learned about Jeff and I was like, wow. Okay. So Jeff is the one effectively running this website. Got it. And rich literally never said that until I had to figure it out for myself. Um, so I, I really interacted a lot with Jeff. Jeff's a cool guy, you know? Um, and all of these conspiracy theories about Jeff, you know, being a front man for low tax or something like that. Now it's Jeff. 0:16:31 Unknown_00: Um, low tax has sold something awful LLC to Jeffrey of Yaz boss. And there are conspiracy theories that the arrangement is that Jeffrey will de facto own it, but contractually he'll be obligated to pay a percentage of all something awful LLC proceeds to low tax forever. Um, Um, now there hasn't been any kind of like publication of contracts or anything. I don't know if anything's been made formal yet, but, uh, from, from every, from everyone that is talking in any capacity of having knowledge of this, they're all denying it. Uh, that's one of the Jeffrey's big promises to something awful is that, uh, low tax will in no way, shape or form benefit from something awful moving forward, except for the proceeds of the sale. 0:17:57 Unknown_00: That's my understanding. Unknown_02: I, I firmly believe that something awful going forward will be owned by goons. You know, I, I almost see it as like a flat organization, you know, where it's, it's like a, like a workers collective for lack of a better word. I hate to use that very politically charged term, but, uh, you know, like, cause the, the moderators and the admins, they've been working for years for free and they've been running this site for him. So, um, Unknown_02: No, low tax will not benefit. And at this point in time, they have signed a non-compete contract kind of thing where Jeffrey has 90 day exclusive rights to purchase something off LLC, but no actual purchase has been 0:18:30 Unknown_02: That's interesting. Unknown_00: I did not know that. When you say non-competition clause though, are you saying that low tax can't then immediately start up, you know, something awful or dot.com and try to run that as, or are you talking about like the exclusive rights to the purchase only? Unknown_02: Yeah, I meant exclusive rights. Sorry. I don't mean to be confusing. I will say that, um, I, uh, I was negotiating with Jeffrey briefly, um, because he wanted to invest in something awful. Um, And, you know, we kind of went back and forth on numbers, you know. 0:19:19 Unknown_00: What was he hoping to get out of in return for his capital? Was he hoping for some kind of rights or advertising or? Unknown_02: Well, he would obviously get, you know, Part of the percentage of the profits. Um, and we kind of were hashing that out for what, what investment for what percentage of profits, but he was primarily concerned, I would say exclusively concerned with being able to run the forums. Um, he basically didn't want a low tax to be like, you know, doing anything interfering with his decisions. Yeah. Yeah. Like he was, his explanation was, you know, low tax and I can work together on things, but he doesn't have veto power anymore. And I was like, yeah, that seems reasonable to me, especially because Jeffrey loves the forums. I'm talking like, you know, I've talked to a lot of people, um, associated with something awful. And, uh, uh, Jeffrey is the most unselfishly, uh, 0:20:38 Unknown_02: committed to that website. He, he has, he didn't buy this site because he sees it as a good business opportunity. I didn't start doing the work because I saw it as a good business opportunity. I just think it's a, it's a very unique community. And I think that there's a lot of talent amongst goons and I wanted to be able to promote that. And Jeffrey wants to do the same. 0:21:14 Unknown_00: I don't know a whole lot about Jeffrey. Is he politically aligned with the rest of Something Awful? Is he very, you know, this new progressivism? Unknown_02: I don't know. To be honest, Jeffrey is a very private person. There's not a whole lot that I know about Jeffrey. I do know he's a good guy. Unknown_02: He cares a lot about the forum, so I think people should trust him. Unknown_00: Well, that's something that I was actually thinking about is I don't know anything about Jeffrey, but chances are we're probably going to learn a lot about Jeffrey because once his name is all over contracts and the new owner of the LLC, all of that's public information. And I hope for his sake that he's ready for the kind of scrutiny that gets attached to something like that because... 0:21:58 Unknown_00: I don't think I've seen any pictures of him. I don't think I've seen... I'm sure maybe he's posted them. Maybe they've been posted on the thread. I don't have a mental image for him. Unknown_00: But you can see over time what kind of scrutiny and publication of personal stuff that low tax has been exposed to. And if Jeffrey isn't ready, he may find the ownership aspect to be a lot less fun than he hopes it is. 0:22:35 Unknown_02: Um, you know, I hear what you're saying, but also you have to understand that rich Kanka loves attention. It doesn't matter what kind of attention, good, bad. He loves attention. Um, he, I, this is something that he's said publicly. So, and I'm going to repeat it is that rich when talking about Kiwi farms would say, nobody would be that obsessed with me unless they wanted to have sex with me. I was like, Hmm. That's an interesting point of view to have. Okay. Unknown_00: That's like a common deflection. That's what people go to immediately. If you start talking about someone in any detail, it's like a quick go-to response that a lot of people have. Like, oh, you're just like into me. You're sexually attracted to me. 0:23:15 Unknown_02: See, that's not something that I've ever assumed because I've been pretty heavily scrutinized. I've been doxxed a little bit. Unknown_02: And I never assumed people wanted to have sex with me. I think that people are just intrigued by all of these very unhinged people, you know, because Rich Kayenka is, you know, he's not all there, just like me. And 0:23:49 Unknown_02: You know, Jeffrey, on the other hand, he's he's he's like a rock. You know, I don't he doesn't like attention. He's strictly professional, you know. And so I I think under his ownership, the whole concept of, you know, head of something awful will be very different. Unknown_00: So there's not going to be a rebound with Jeffrey after low taxes? Oh, God. Unknown_02: I want to be single for a while, man, because I've got a lot of recovery and healing to do. 0:24:25 Unknown_02: It's overwhelming, man. Unknown_00: Yeah, I bet. Unknown_00: Do you have any idea how much he paid low tax for? There is a rumor that Jeffrey is independently wealthy because of cryptocurrency. And I'm curious if that's true. And I'm curious if you have any idea what a ballpark would be for how much was paid for something awful. Unknown_02: The Bitcoin thing is bullshit, first of all. And second of all, I don't know how Jeffrey has his money. Unknown_02: And, you know, I'm kind of torn on, you know, 0:24:58 Unknown_02: uh how much i can say because like i said jeffrey's very private and i don't want to uh you know air his business um but in our negotiations it was definitely in the lower six figures that's pretty good Unknown_00: though not necessarily good enough to live off of. Unknown_00: I mean, for most people, it wouldn't be enough to coast off of for the rest of your life, for sure. But for Lotax in particular, he had been earning over $10,000 a month for... Unknown_00: I think the entirety of 2019 and now, uh, you know, he'll be getting, getting a lump sum of cash, but that would last like if, even if it was like a quarter of a million dollars, that's like two years of what he's accustomed to at this point. Right. Was he, was he spending as much as he was making when you were with him? Do you know? 0:25:51 Unknown_02: um you know i don't know all the details of his spending but i know the something awful financials i know exactly how much something awful makes and um combine that with his patreon um he was he was pulling in a good 20 grand a month at least wow really the site itself makes that much Unknown_02: The site itself doesn't make that much. 0:26:23 Unknown_02: In April, the site made 15 grand because I think there was a talks thread where people said, you know, if Bernie doesn't get the nominational self ban and then they all reread. And, you know, it's like, yeah, it was it was 15 grand. Unknown_02: On average, the site makes. Unknown_02: Like six grand a month. And then advertising makes another grand on top of that. And that was something that I was working on a lot. So whenever Rich says that I didn't have a position, it's like, just talk to the... I was the only person talking to the ad people. I even talked to Kevin Bowen, Fragmaster, because he works for Hearst doing programmatic. And he and I talked ad stuff because he used to do ad stuff back in the aughts. 0:27:08 Unknown_00: Yeah. I mean, there is a demand for an ad network like that. Like if, if you guys publish ads on the Kiwi farms, I would fucking do it. And like a heartbeat because I, I, uh, I miss a lot of income by not having publishers, you know, for, for ad networks. And I'm just, I'm not saying that you guys would be able to do that. I'm just saying that there is a demand for that, for, for niche, especially ad networks that are more targeted towards certain audiences. Unknown_02: Yeah, man, if I were in a position to do business with you right now, I would do it. 0:27:47 Unknown_00: Oh, no, I think I've learned my lessons. Unknown_00: Oh, yeah? So to get back to the timeline, I think we're about up to December. So December he spent without you. You were back in Salt Lake, right? Unknown_02: The end of December. Unknown_00: The end of December you came back? Unknown_02: Yeah. Unknown_00: So were you there for the New Year's stream? Unknown_02: No, no, no, no. I was not. I watched it. I was sitting in my apartment. It was funny because I was hanging out with my neighbors. We were having a party. And I was like, you know, because Rich had me as a moderator for Gaming Garbage. And so I would go in and, you know, kick all the Kiwi Farms guys. 0:28:20 Unknown_02: And... Unknown_02: So, uh, I was like, I got to bounce and do this stream. And it was so funny. Uh, that stream was impossible to moderate. It was the craziest thing I've ever seen. Well, you know, what has happened since June 24th is the craziest thing I've ever seen. But, uh, the, the January stream was, I don't know, you know, cause he was, he was super bummed because none of his children were around for Christmas and, um, yeah, it sucks big time. And, uh, he, I guess he was bored or something. Um, and he just, you know, I don't know what happened that everybody from Kiwi Farms and probably something sensitive as well just hopped on that stream and it was like rapid fire. 0:29:31 Unknown_00: Well, you're talking about like from moderating the stream, but he's done this before. I've actually had a conversation with Ashley Because a long time ago, during the schmorky stuff, that's when Low Tax was posting on the forum. And I got into a call with him and Ashley. And Ashley was trying to encourage him to take possession of the site more closely. And I spoke to both of them. And she really, really wanted me to give him advice on how to rein stuff in. Unknown_00: and because he he seemed genuinely passionate about fixing something awful because in the something awful threads when people were making fun of schmorky they would frequently you know because he was like a pedophile they would frequently uh disrespect preferred pronouns and all this stuff and And there was a very serious disagreement in the Something Awful community if it was okay to deadname and misuse pronouns for an actual child-attracted person, like Schmorky, who's just like a clown. And Lotex was so pissed off by this, he really wanted to see some sort of change in something awful. So during this sort of uplift, I spoke with him and I spoke with Ashley. 0:30:21 Unknown_00: And it led nowhere. Because what happened is when he started to try and say, we're going to change and we're going to be more like how we used to be. We're going to be funnier. We're going to be less politically correct. he got a lot of pushback and he the moment he gets any pushback he seems to completely collapse because she's like he won't talk to me storms out of the room he go he goes to collapse on the sofa and then he's just out for the for the rest of the day and there's no getting to him yeah no um when was this conversation by the way oh i i don't know it was right after the smirky stuff i don't like things things move so quickly that i forget the dates 0:31:32 Unknown_02: A few years ago, at least. Unknown_00: Yeah, I want to say 2018. I don't know if that's right. I don't want to commit to any date, though, because I'm bad with memory. Unknown_02: Okay. Well, the only reason I ask is that when I knew the guy, he did absolutely jack shit. I tried to do a brand discovery session with him, actually, because I was like, okay, you say that Unknown_02: something awful needs to change. Let's really define the brand and kind of go from there. And it was so depressing just how little he gave a shit. 0:32:07 Unknown_02: He had no creativity, no imagination about what something awful could be or even what it is. He just said that the forums are too angry. And, you know, it just bummed me out because the guy did nothing with this business. Unknown_01: Yeah. Unknown_02: It had lapsed for a decade at least. And so I saw the gold mine of. 0:32:45 Unknown_02: uh, something awful to be the community. You know, that's why I reached out directly to the community to see who wanted to write. A lot of people wanted to write that I didn't actually bring on, didn't answer their emails, or it was just weird in emails. It was because it was super overwhelming. So you got to understand in the beginning, rich, rich likes to have control. And, um, in the beginning, uh, you know, when it came to the writers, Uh, he was like, Hey, if you like their writing forwarded to me and I'll say yay or nay. So I do that. 0:33:18 Unknown_02: And, um, sorry, window popped up. Um, I would do that and, uh, he would never read it. So, uh, at a certain point I just said, uh, you know, can I just approve it? Yay or nay myself. And he said, sure, whatever. And so that's how we started building my team. Unknown_02: And, uh, oh man, Fizz Khalifa, he, uh, uh, well, no people who haven't been paying attention to the forums as much as I have, they won't know that guy's name, but, uh, he was one of my writers and, uh, I thought it was hilarious what he did with two articles, um, around all this, but anyway, I digress. What I meant to say was, uh, um, When I, when I actually started getting a lot more authority, I had ads authority from the beginning cause I'm experienced with that. But, um, I remember he was driving me back to the airport, um, to head back home to Salt Lake city and, ah, gosh. 0:34:04 Unknown_02: Um, I want to say like the end of January, February. somewhere in there. Um, and I just on a whim turned to him and I was like, Hey, rich, I know you, uh, don't like doing any of the business stuff with something awful. And I know it's a pain in the ass for you. So I was wondering if I could just take over. 0:34:38 Unknown_02: And, uh, he was like, yeah, sure. Unknown_02: And, uh, you know, it was, uh, it was not, any kind of, I don't know, I guess you could say I warmed my way in, I finessed my way. But it was really just a matter of like, I felt really passionate about this website, this business. 0:35:21 Unknown_02: I know how to run a business. And, you know, I guess that's what the, you know, the moderators, admins, some of the writers had said, you know, it's like, I did put some effort into creating some semblance of structure. That was a big thing for me. Unknown_00: yeah so um whenever i think of the low tax i think of i guess how ashley described him when he gets pushed at all just someone who's really really high on painkillers all the time um i don't i mean i know the box wine thing is like a meme i don't really i don't know if he drinks i would assume not i would just assume that he's like strung out on painkillers is that like a a good representation of how he is on a day-to-day basis 0:36:07 Unknown_02: You know, it's like I don't want to shit talk the guy. It's like, you know, he he went on a podcast, the Dick Masterson podcast, and he he he really laid into me. It was kind of rough. Unknown_02: So I'm not going to you know, I'm not going to sit here and say, you know, really awful things about low tax. But he did take a lot of. Medication. Unknown_02: Medication. Unknown_02: and uh he is it all for for physical ailments or did he take like i don't know i'm if you don't want to answer that that's fine but no he takes like psych meds too for like anxiety uh anxiety and he takes an antidepressant oh oh yeah he's mentioned that before so uh i i mean i guess it 0:37:04 Unknown_00: Is the gold belly thing true? The buying the expensive pies all the time? Unknown_02: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. Like, okay, he would just get bored and order $500 worth of he really got into cookies at the end. That was the like, before it was like pie in a bag, and we would get cakes. Unknown_02: And at one point, there were these like, like Unknown_02: I don't know, like cupcakes in a jar. That was kind of cool, I guess. Um, and then, uh, he really got into cookies from a company called the Cravery and he had a subscription with them, man. Like he got, he got it, you know, and they have a monthly cookie box. So we got that every month. And then he also ordered, you know, like at least four or five more boxes on top of it. Each one of those like $60. 0:37:37 Unknown_00: Is he fatter than he looks? In the New Year stream, he really didn't look that fat because he stood up to show his pig pants off. He didn't look that fat. Is he fat now? Unknown_02: He's got a middle-aged dad bod, I'll say that. 0:38:23 Unknown_00: Okay, so there was a time when this was happening, by the way, just for people who don't follow it, that he and his mom, I guess, were cleaning up your room, and he showed a picture on Facebook that was a trash bag full of, like, Unknown_00: artisanal beers like really really fancy like micro brewery stuff and then like a right on top you know picture perfect it was like a box of antipsychotics that don't jive well it was actually the information packet Okay. Yeah. It was the information packet for some kind of, um, antipsychotic mitigation. And, and his, his, uh, his statement was something like this, this is what you were doing and you were drinking a lot and mixing it with this antipsychotic, which shouldn't be mixed with alcohol. So, uh, the immediate report from someone on the forum that I remember very vividly is that those brands of beers, uh, are popular with men and not really the kind of thing that like a woman, especially a young woman gets fucked up one. So I'm curious what the story is with the, uh, with the beer and the, the antipsychotics that the picture was of. 0:39:11 Unknown_02: Okay. So it's true. I do take an antipsychotic called Latuda. It is for bipolar depression. Unknown_02: Um, And it is true that for bipolar people in general, and especially when you're on these kinds of medications that you should not drink. Unknown_02: However, I will firmly until my death state that I am not an alcoholic. 0:40:03 Unknown_02: I mean, you know, I guess I can say that and people will believe what they want, but I had a beer like, maybe once every other day. I just had like, you know, I just kept them upstairs. Unknown_02: And, you know, it's like, yeah, like you said, I wasn't getting fucked up. Unknown_02: Like, you know, the events of June 22nd and 23rd, I remember vividly. You know, I sound really fucked up in that recording. I don't know if Everybody who's listening to this has heard the recording that Rich made of me. 0:40:41 Unknown_00: Rich recorded you and him having a conversation. I think it was like nine, ten minutes long. And both of you sound extremely tired, first and foremost, and also kind of drunk. Unknown_02: Yeah, so I was actually on Ativan. So I'm prescribed Ativan for panic attacks. And that day had been, I mean, there's a whole story behind it, but that day had been extremely contentious. Earlier, I had taken two milligrams of Ativan and slept for most of the day. And then I woke up and I took another Ativan and I started posting on Kiwi Farms. That's the best thing to do. 0:41:19 Unknown_00: That's the part of time posting. Just ask the people who post there. Unknown_02: I'm just, so... Unknown_02: Frankly, I took too much Ativan. I should not have taken that much Ativan, that was dumb. Unknown_02: And I don't take Ativan every day. It was just one of those really, really awful days. And then I remember shortly after I took the third Ativan and then I was in the midst of posting And then, you know, Rich texted me, uh, he was like, I want to get dinner. I want soup. And I was like, okay. So I went downstairs to like, talk about dinner and that's when we got into the conversation and that's where the recording came from. So yeah, I'm, I'm a little, uh, strung out on Benzos in that recording. 0:41:55 Unknown_00: There was, immediately after the fallout, when the Patreon started dropping, you kind of flipped back and forth publicly in these weird statements that made everyone... Everyone either believed one or two things. They either believed that you were being coerced by low tax into posting these things, or they believed that you were trying to make people believe that low tax coerced you into posting those things. So I'm curious, why in the 72 hours after things started going south really bad publicly, you made several statements saying that you love Lotex and you were sorry, didn't mean to ruin his life, that you were a liar. And what spurred those on? 0:42:41 Unknown_02: All right. So I'm not a psychologist. However... Unknown_02: I was in a relationship with this man for something like seven or eight months. 0:43:23 Unknown_02: And I think he has a personality disorder. Unknown_02: Now I can't say that for sure. Unknown_02: But I have a suspicion that he has narcissistic personality disorder. Unknown_02: And I had a very, I had what is called a trauma bond. with this man so um i was uh you know he controlled a lot of my life you know like uh it was he paid you he was your employer your boyfriend i guess you lived with him too so he was like your landlord what do you mean 0:44:10 Unknown_02: Yeah, and also there were things that I, you know, could and could not do. Like, for example, I used to vape. You know, I used to be into vaping. And it was like, I don't like you doing that. You need to stop. So I did. I quit vaping. Like, I just quit. Because it was like, you know, if Rich says something, then I must do it. And, you know, I'm... Unknown_02: anyway, I'm sorry. I'm trying to find my words here because I, I don't want to be, uh, slanderous. I just want to present my perspective, you see. Um, but what had happened was on June 22nd, um, it was a relatively normal day. And then, uh, the, uh, 0:44:47 Unknown_02: First incident happened that if you are not familiar with the first incident, you can read the police report. It's a pretty accurate summary of what happened. I spent the night at the Best Western about a mile away. I woke up in the morning and Rich had his epidural that morning. So in epidural, they injected corticosteroids into his spine 0:45:22 Unknown_02: And I gave his phone a call. I wasn't feeling too good because, you know, the night before I'd been struck in the face. Unknown_02: And now I was in a hotel in a strange city. So I called his phone. His mom picked up and she said, we cannot have the police coming to that house. You need to leave. He needs to leave. 0:46:00 Unknown_02: focus on his children, getting custody of his children. Unknown_02: And, you know, by that point, I started becoming hysterical. And I was like, please just have Rich call me because I had a lot of shit at his place still. Like I had like my laptop was there, you know, a lot of expensive personal items. Unknown_00: How long had you been living there at that point? Like continuously without being flown in and out? 0:46:33 Unknown_02: I had been there since early May. And by this point, it was late June. So yeah, because I he flew me out to be his caretaker, you know, because he was, he had this spine thing. And it was, I mean, people ask if it's real. And it's like, Unknown_02: I guess so. It's like he would say that it hurts. Unknown_00: He would complain about pain a lot is what you mean. Obviously, you're not a doctor. You can't say with any certainty how real that was or if it was just him as an excuse saying that. 0:47:13 Unknown_02: Yes. Unknown_02: I did a lot of work. I cleaned that house from top to bottom. There were days where I just, I cleaned for like seven or eight hours straight. Unknown_02: You know, I changed his bed sheets. I think, I think on one post on Kiwi farms last night, I said that I tried to unclog the toilet. Cause he took this massive opioid shit. Unknown_01: And, um, I am a professional shitter. 0:47:45 Unknown_02: Like I've clogged many a toilet in my life and time. And if I cannot unclog a toilet, you have literally shat cement. Like that's a problem. You need help. Um, Unknown_02: Anyway, where was I going with this? Oh, you asked about the... I had asked how long you had been staying there. Unknown_00: Yeah, because I know at least in Florida, if you stay like a month at someone's place, you're legally a tenant, even if they hadn't charged you, even if you didn't have a contract. And you can't just tell someone to leave a place where they live. You have to give them at least a week's notice in Florida. 0:48:20 Unknown_00: But it depends. It's a state thing. So I'm not sure. Did you sort that out? Did you get someone to guide you through the tenant system in that state? Unknown_02: No. Because what happened is I came back the next day. This was June 23rd. And Rich was absolutely irate. And that's an understatement. Unknown_02: he was screaming at me and I was just, I was hysterical. I was like, please Rich, let's just fix this. 0:48:54 Unknown_02: And, Unknown_02: Then the second incident happened and I know people are waiting for the second police report, but I'll say this. I have tried to acquire the second police report and it cannot be released because there is an ongoing case. The police report will be able to be disseminated when the case is closed, hopefully on September 1st. Unknown_00: You mean the ongoing investigation? Unknown_02: Yeah. Unknown_00: yeah because the case i mean the case wasn't closed until there's like a judgment um exactly or charges i mean for a case to be whatever anyways yeah people i mean what happened at the second incident because the first one i'm aware of um that he claimed you you struck him in such a way that it caused him physical pain and like some sort of action figure with a switch on his back he his limbs uh sprung to life and slapped you across the face he got up and his toes were slippery which is probably one of the favorite the best things that anyone has ever said that he got up and his toes were slippery so he fell forward and struck you across the face yeah yeah i mean 0:49:47 Unknown_02: That doesn't jive well with my very vivid memory of being backhanded across the face and I'm lying on the floor and this man is standing over me, okay? Just looking down and I'm like, help, somebody help me. And it sucked big time. But the second incident, I'm not gonna go hugely into it, but I got a black guy. Unknown_02: The cops were called yet again. He called the cops both times, I will say that. 0:50:37 Unknown_02: Um, and, uh, uh, the cops showed up, uh, one of the same, uh, cops from the day before. Um, she was like the head cop, I guess. I don't know. Um, both, uh, both female cops, both times. Interesting. Um, but they, uh, they showed up and they called paramedics and the paramedics gave me some eyes for my eye and they were like, you know, uh, do you want to be examined? Unknown_02: Uh for injury and I said no um, but that wouldn't be a problem because uh, they put they drove me back to Uh, that's when they gave me my case number and they gave me this pamphlet about domestic violence And they drove me back to best western. I had all my shit with me this time and uh I went to the summit grill next door and 0:51:25 Unknown_02: I collapsed. I remember ordering chicken strips. Unknown_01: So fucking I love chicken strips, man. Unknown_02: It's just can't get enough but and I it just went Unknown_02: black i don't know you blacked out did i mean did you get evaluated for a concussion afterwards yeah they drove my ass to the er um they give you your chicken wings before before they i got i got i got like one bite dude it was such a it sucked but anyway so i was in the er um they did all sorts of tests on me obviously like blood tests 0:52:20 Unknown_02: lab serum test, but then I also got a CT scan, MRIs. Unknown_02: They also examined my hand, but I was a little out of it. I don't remember much. I do remember talking to my parents, but I woke up with a dead phone, and I'm in the ER, and they're Unknown_02: not letting me leave until, uh, I don't know. They, I guess they just wanted to make sure that they wanted to observe me. And, uh, finally I'm getting ready to go. And, uh, they, uh, they had diagnosed me with alleged assault. 0:52:57 Unknown_02: And, uh, I have the paperwork still from that. I have the fricking ambulance bill. Um, but so I went back to a police report. Unknown_00: Did you send that to the police? Unknown_02: Um, no, actually, but I sent that to the police and there's the ongoing investigation. Unknown_00: You may want to do that. Unknown_02: I mean, the police know a lot, like I'm in very close contact with the detective and also the prosecutor. Um, 0:53:36 Unknown_00: well just not not as a lawyer but as uh as a forum operator who enjoys public records i would strongly suggest and request that uh you send those to the the prosecuting attorney if nothing else yeah yeah okay yeah i probably should um but uh Unknown_02: Anyway, so back to the story. I went back to the hotel, and I was tired, tired as shit. So I was sleeping, and then my phone goes off, and it's Rich. And he says, your posts have... 0:54:10 Unknown_02: They're, you know, they're ruining my life. You have to do something. You have to, you have to fix this. Unknown_02: And, you know, obviously I felt terrible. I was like, I felt like it was my fault. And so he was like, I was like, okay, what should I do? And he said, make a text post, say that you lied. Unknown_02: And so I did. And I go back to sleep. I'm not even like checking social media at this point. And get another I get a call from Rich. He's like, people aren't buying it. You have to make a video. 0:54:45 Unknown_00: I was going to ask about the video. It's about three minutes long. I'm not going to play it or anything, but to sum it up, it's basically you in a t-shirt. Unknown_00: I don't know if I can see a black eye. I do have it up in front of me. Unknown_02: I'm wearing makeup. Unknown_00: Okay, so you're in front of the camera, you have the phone up, and you sound on the verge of tears, I'm not sure if you're crying, and you're saying that you lied about the incident, and that, oh, that you were drinking, that you were drinking, and that's why it happened, which became the narrative, the running narrative going forward. You mentioned on the Dick Show and elsewhere, he's basically just called you an alcoholic who chronically... 0:55:26 Unknown_00: mixes pills and alcohol and that explains everything and he hasn't done anything wrong well I mean you know it's not just an alcoholic but a crazy bipolar alcoholic you do explicitly say in the video that you are an alcoholic you use that word yeah because that's what Rich told me that was the narrative that Rich wanted to push forward 0:56:03 Unknown_02: Um, I don't think I'm an alcoholic. Unknown_02: Um, you know, I've, you know, I guess it's just like, there's no way that I can like prove that it's just the, you know, he thinks I'm an alcoholic. I don't think I'm an alcoholic. I did everything possible to. Unknown_02: please that man i did everything and uh so did he tell you like over the phone that we're gonna you're gonna say that you're an alcoholic because that would that would help with the patreon help with the site yeah he would tell me what the narrative was he was like you were too drunk to remember you don't know what happened You lied, so here's the actual story. 0:56:47 Unknown_02: And that's when he told me the toe slipping, falling to the ground thing. Unknown_02: And when you're in that kind of abusive relationship, You, uh, don't really know what's reality anymore. Like I know what I experienced. I have the vivid memory, but he, you know, I, I trusted rich and I didn't want to lose rich. So I was going to say whatever you wanted me to say and, uh, making that video. Oh God, I didn't want to make that video. That sucks so much. Um, and yeah, a feeling of embarrassment or like, what were you feeling when you went into it? The feeling was, uh, first of all, utter despair. Um, because I, you know, my world was unraveling. And then second of all, um, fear, intense fear, uh, because, uh, you know, I felt like it was my fault that I was ruining this guy's life. You know, like that was not my intention. I didn't go. I, when I made those posts, I don't know exactly what I was trying to accomplish, to be perfectly honest with you. But, uh, you know, I certainly wasn't trying to like completely up and this guy's life that's. And so I felt like a monster. 0:58:00 Unknown_00: So any conspiracy that you were trying to make people think that you were being concorous is wrong. He was genuinely asking you to help him in recovering whatever value he could extract from something awful. 0:58:41 Unknown_02: Yes. Unknown_00: Okay. Unknown_00: So did you ever get your stuff back? There is a very burning question that I have coming up. Just in general, did you get your stuff back? Did you get out of the city? Are you back in Salt Lake? Unknown_02: Yes, I'm currently sitting in my apartment in downtown Salt Lake City. It's a beautiful day. Unknown_00: I think people ask, are you a member of the Church of Latter-day Saints or a former member? Unknown_02: No, no, and I never have been. I'm actually from Los Angeles. 0:59:11 Unknown_02: I moved out here because my sister went to the University of Utah for video game design and I wanted to be closer to her and other family, you know, because it's just, I was away from my family for so long and Thought I'd come out here. Unknown_02: But no, I'm not Mormon. Unknown_00: So the burning question that I think a lot of people have, because she's becoming increasingly relevant, once again, because she's handling affairs regarding his divorce, his custody, and also, I guess, in sweeping you up. Unknown_00: What are your experiences with Lotex's mother? Unknown_01: Oof. Unknown_02: Um... 0:59:57 Unknown_02: Low taxes mom. Unknown_02: Well, she's a character. Unknown_02: She is definitely a control freak. I don't think that's an overstatement. Unknown_00: Of people around Rich or of Rich directly? Unknown_02: Both. Okay. Unknown_02: And he resented her a lot for it. You know, like, he considered his mom abusive, but he also relied on her a lot. 1:00:38 Unknown_00: He currently lives at one of her properties, right? Because she's wealthy and she has multiple properties. Unknown_02: Yeah, they have a nice freaking house. Unknown_00: uh so i mean like does she like how often how often do they speak does she like stop by every day to check on them she wouldn't stop by every day but they would text every day you know especially about the divorce um you know um rich would do things that um Unknown_02: would piss her off. He really loved emailing his ex-wife, who he's currently going through a custody and divorce battle with. She specifically told me, she was like, tell him to stop emailing her or I will stop talking to him. I was like, damn, that's quite the ultimatum. because they were thick as thieves. 1:01:12 Unknown_00: What do you mean by that? Unknown_02: Oh, it's just like, you know, he, he relied on his mom for just about everything, you know, like, Oh, okay. Unknown_00: Sorry. I misunderstood. I thought you meant like if he did not stop emailing her, then the ex wife would stop all communication with them. So, but you mean that she threatened to walk out, his mom threatened to walk out on him if he did not stop sending Ashley, the ex wife emails. 1:02:03 Unknown_02: That's correct. Sorry for the confusion. Unknown_00: No, no problem. That's fine. My friend. Uh, so, Unknown_00: Was he sending Ashley unrequited emails just out of the blue about his feelings or what? Unknown_02: Well, all he felt for her was anger. He absolutely despises Ashley. And I know he absolutely despises me now. But he felt... He used every opportunity he could to... 1:02:48 Unknown_02: um be snarky towards her and uh obviously that doesn't look too good in court um and obviously you know just like now you know the thing is the reason i'm willing to do podcasts and posts and stuff like that is i don't have a civil suit that's going on um i might in the future you know um Unknown_02: Uh, but right now this is a criminal case. Unknown_02: And so, um, I am not the one being tried. And, uh, so I think I'm in a very unique position where I can share some things about Richard Kayanka that, uh, previous, uh, previous, uh, partners Yeah, that's the word, um, have been unable to share. So, but you know, also I don't want to come across as like, um, you know, you know, no, no. And I hope you're not getting that impression. I mean, I know there are people who are going to dislike me no matter what, you know? And I, I know that people are, you know, some people think I'm just absolutely crazy. I know that the BPD thing is a favorite. Um, I know on Kiwi farms, like it's the, the dislike for me is vitriolic to say the least. Um, though there are some people who are really nice. Um, but, uh, 1:04:25 Unknown_02: uh i'm getting discord messages people don't like that i'm on this i guess everybody's listening hey guys oh everyone everyone at something awful is a huge fan of mine don't that's just them and their sarcastic yoon humor trying to dissuade you from talking to me i promise um i don't know it's like you know it why am i doing this um 1:04:59 Unknown_00: Is it like that you want to make people aware of what low tax is like? Are you trying to help something awful in a way? Is it like a personal thing? Because I mean, what are your prospects coming out from this? Yeah. you know, cause he's, he's said some pretty terrible things about you. It's really, that must scare you for moving forward. You're, you know, like a young professional, any kind of negative SEO for this kind of shit is going to hurt. Unknown_02: Yeah. Unknown_02: Um, I mean, I've been thinking about my future. I think I want to pivot again, but, um, PR business now. 1:05:38 Unknown_02: Uh, well, it's like, you know, I'm, uh, I don't know. It's like, You got to live your life. You can't just stagnate. Unknown_02: Also, I'm so over client work, man. Fuck client work. Anyway, why am I doing this? I think I would like to share my side of the story. I talked to Vice yesterday. I told them pretty much what I'm telling you now. I'm glad you reminded me of that. Unknown_00: Because he said that he spoke to Vice, right? And then you spoke to Vice. I'm sure whatever Vice comes up with is going to be exciting, to say the least. Sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off. 1:06:15 Unknown_02: And I know, I mean, I just got a Discord message that you're full of shit. And it's like, maybe you are. Maybe you are. I just, I want, it's like, you know, I'm in a position where I can't win, right? Um, so I'm just gonna, I'm gonna do what I want, you know, I'm not gonna, I don't think I'm. 1:06:54 Unknown_02: You know, like if people don't want to, uh, support me because I talked to no, or people don't want to support me because when I'm bored at 11 o'clock at night, I answer some questions on Kiwi farms. Like if you, if you don't like that, fine. I, you know, goons didn't like me in the beginning. Unknown_02: Then they still kind of don't like me. A lot of people don't like me. So it's like, what, you know, what, how do I win? You know? And as far as I'm concerned, winning, if there is such a thing is to, you know, share my side of the story and just kind of like, let people know that I'm not a crazy person. I don't know. When you talk to me, do I strike you as particularly unhinged? I'm trying to be honest with you, man. 1:07:39 Unknown_00: Well, kind of. I mean, I do hold true to the stigma about BPD. I think that BPD is something that you have to have a lot of patience with. So I'm not trying to guide you into saying anything. I have a lot of questions just because I'm curious about low techs. 1:08:22 Unknown_00: And I think that you have a story to tell, which is why I asked you to share it to kind of meet halfway. And I'm actually kind of interested in... I want to say that you've completely failed to give me an answer to what you want people to take away from you talking about low tax. You didn't say it's necessarily to save yourself or to save something awful. It's not to spite low tax. So... I mean, is it just kind of boredom? Because that would be, I mean, that would be, to be fair, that would be a very BPD thing. Like, okay, I'm bored at 11 p.m. Let's have a talk with this weirdo who runs this weird forum that doesn't like either me or low tax. That would be pretty in line with my expectations for that. 1:09:03 Unknown_00: Well, all righty then. Unknown_02: I'm trying to be nice, okay? Unknown_00: Believe it or not, I promise. I'm trying to be nice. Unknown_02: Okay. man you know i've lived with mental health stigma my whole life and i've seen the the insults i've seen lobbed my way it it is impossible to insult me anymore i actually find it funny one guy called me a fatso last night and that i actually laughed out loud that was that was fucking awesome um i also love mormon bpd co-core that's a great moniker less than any picture in kiwi farms Yeah, well, my old account that I forgot to log into. 1:09:46 Unknown_00: You can log back into that one. I changed your email. Unknown_02: Oh, cool. Well, so what am I trying to get out of this? I, you know, it was the same as why I got on Kiwi Farms last night. Like, I want people to kind of, you know, understand me. Unknown_02: little better because i i was in this shadow of low tax and um you know it's like i i think i think uh oh god i'm getting so many discord messages it's just like just need it let's keep going well it's 1:10:41 Unknown_02: all right, I'm going to be vulnerable for a second. Unknown_02: And so the reason why Rich likes to call me crazy or specifically say bipolar is that that's like my biggest insecurity. Unknown_00: Is being seen as crazy? Unknown_02: Yeah. Unknown_00: So when people on the forum call you crazy, you feel the need to kind of defend yourself from that, right? 1:11:15 Unknown_02: Sorry, I don't mean to. Oh, it's okay. Unknown_02: I know it's embarrassing to fucking cry on it. Unknown_02: Kiwi farm stream. But yeah, like I've spent years, literal years to... Unknown_02: Stop being a toxic asshole. Unknown_02: I've been in therapy for a very long time. I take my meds religiously. Unknown_02: And yes, I'm a very eccentric person. And I'll always be a little troubled. 1:11:49 Unknown_02: But what people don't understand is that prior to meeting Richard Kayenga. Unknown_02: My life was perfectly fine. I was living the normal life of a 25 year old woman. Unknown_02: And I was thrown into this world and I didn't know how to react. I still don't know how to react because I have anonymous people obsessing over my life. Like I was taught, I went to my parents' house for my dad's birthday yesterday. 1:12:27 Unknown_02: And I was talking about you guys and I said, they know this address because they did my background check and they saw that my business is registered at this address. And my dad's like, yeah. Unknown_02: And they were like, my dad's like, oh, shit, I got to get a gun. Unknown_02: But, you know. Unknown_00: Yeah. Unknown_02: Yeah. Unknown_02: He's a, you know, it's like. 1:13:03 Unknown_02: I'm not. Unknown_00: So, I mean, did low tax know that you have like an insecurity about being called mental and that's why you kind of like honed in on that. Is that what you're. Unknown_02: Oh yeah. Oh, for sure. Unknown_02: Like, cause it's like, man, I've put so much work into it, more work than Unknown_02: I think most people put into anything. 1:13:39 Unknown_00: You really shouldn't drink with antipsychotics. When you say an absolute like that, I put in more work into this than anyone has put into anything. That would definitely include not drinking with the medication. Unknown_02: It's true. Unknown_02: Can't deny that. Unknown_00: Do you think that you behave differently when you drink every other day? Unknown_02: No. Unknown_02: Rich and I would get into arguments, but I think it's simply because I had a harder time putting up with his shit. 1:14:27 Unknown_02: And it's like Unknown_02: You know, I mean, you're right. I can't argue with you. And you're right. That was a very hyperbolic absolute of a statement. Um, I, I guess, may I rephrase? Unknown_02: Um, I've put a lot, a lot years, hours, days, weeks, months into, um, getting a handle on my diagnoses and, uh, 1:15:02 Unknown_02: I was never good enough for Ridge. Unknown_00: is there anything that happened that he said or did when you knew him? Cause I was going to ask at one point, um, at what point after, I suppose after you moved in, after in 2020, when you started living with him more, um, did things become rocky? You know, what, what sort of early symptoms were there? What sort of problems did you guys have recurring fights, that kind of stuff that kind of indicated that there was a problem? 1:15:34 Unknown_02: Um, Unknown_02: I think the big thing for, sorry, not to interrupt, but I just wanted to say, cause my, my, my feeling with that is I feel like if there was like an incident, like one just random physical incident, I, I, I don't think that kind of thing comes out of nowhere. Unknown_00: Right. So there's probably been something that happened either that day or leading up to it. That was, uh, you know, probably noticeable in retrospect more. Unknown_02: Yeah. I mean, I was very much emotionally, um, mentally, verbally abused. His favorite thing would be to insult me and then say, oh, it's a joke. 1:16:06 Unknown_02: Don't you get jokes? Unknown_02: And which is so strange because he said that he was attracted to me because I'm funny, which is like, okay. Unknown_02: But the big thing that I noticed over the course of the relationship is that I was the one putting all the effort into changing who I was to suit him. 1:16:40 Unknown_02: Whereas if I were to have offered him constructive criticism, he would get very aggressively defensive. And I would say, Rich, you're being defensive. I don't mean to attack you. I'm just saying, I'm just trying to offer feedback. And he's like, both of my exes use that word. Don't use that word. And I'm like, feedback. No, no, defensive. Oh, okay. And he just hated the word defensive. And I was like, well, don't you think that if three separate people have said that you're defensive, that maybe you're a little defensive? 1:17:21 Unknown_00: Yeah, I can believe that. Unknown_00: Besides the vaping stuff, what other requirements did he have of you over time? Unknown_02: I was... Unknown_02: Sometimes I would get sad in the evening due to some trauma that I experienced in childhood. So I was required to run every day at 5pm. Otherwise, I would be given the cold shoulder I would get yelled at. Unknown_02: So running at 5pm. Let's see. 1:17:53 Unknown_00: Sorry, I'm confused about how those two things link. Were you prescribed exercise and he didn't want you to exercise at that time? Unknown_02: No, no. He was the one who prescribed me the exercise because he thought that it would make me... It would stop me from being sad. Which ostensibly seems like a thoughtful thing and I thought of that too. But if I missed a run, then that was a slight against him. And the... 1:18:26 Unknown_02: statement was always you're not respecting my feelings and uh that's all i ever did is respect rich's feelings um i respected rich's feelings more than i respected my own Unknown_00: Out of curiosity, because I know there's another person I know of. I wish I could remember her name. Oh, Aiden Paladin. She gained weight because she was on antipsychotics. Did he ever bring up weight or anything? I'm not kind of linking the running into the sadness. People in chat are talking about it, too. Did he bring up weight? Is that why he wanted you to run? No. 1:18:57 Unknown_02: No. I even asked him a few times. I was like, hey, Rich, should I lose some weight? He's like, nah. Unknown_00: Of course he's going to say no if you ask him. Oh, well. That's a guy thing. You can't say, yeah, I think you're getting a little bit fat. You got to go run. That's a bomb you're setting off. Unknown_02: Oh, well. Unknown_02: Learn something new every day, I guess. 1:19:34 Unknown_00: I was just curious because I was wondering. Unknown_00: I can't think of anything unless there's more you wanted to say. In particular, again, I'm really interested in hearing about his relationship with his mom because that's the weirdest thing. Unknown_02: It's just think of a helicopter mom. She's a helicopter mom. He Unknown_02: know if he didn't have her then he would be like i don't know where he'd be he needs her um in order to like you know live live this lifestyle that he's become accustomed to um i guess i want to say to both goons and kiwi farms and something sensitive if you're out there here's a call out here's a shout out um you know 1:20:35 Unknown_02: you can, you can hate me. Um, I don't know if this podcast has changed your opinion of me at all. Um, but I think that, uh, what I want to say is that, um, Unknown_02: I'm a 26-year-old woman who has made a lot of bad decisions. 1:21:11 Unknown_02: And I don't think a lot of people know what it's like to be scrutinized as closely as I've been. Unknown_02: And I, you know, even after all these months, I still struggle with understanding it. Unknown_02: And maybe someday it'll make sense, but I hope that some of you at least going to exercise some empathy that, um, I accidentally fell into this situation. I never would have chosen it. 1:21:50 Unknown_02: I still, I wish that Rich's life had been ruined. That was never something I wanted and. Unknown_02: I also want to say that how I treated his exes when I was his narcissistic supply, I feel like a monster about that. Unknown_02: Because I bought every lie he sold. Unknown_02: And I called his ex-wife a dumb cunt on Facebook. after she had fled to a domestic violence shelter and stayed there for, to like, from my understanding to this day, I don't know, but it'll take a long time for me to forgive myself for that. And it'll take a long time for me to recover from even being part of this. Like before all this, I didn't know what Kiwi Farms was and 1:22:27 Unknown_02: Um, to this day, I wish I had not friended Rich Kayenko on Facebook. Like if only that had never happened then. Um, so it's like, you know, uh, I guess I, I'm just begging for empathy. If, if you have any to spare. 1:23:20 Unknown_00: Out of curiosity, because that's kind of like a general message to, I guess, something awful in broader people, a broader community that might hear about this. Unknown_00: I'm curious if you think that the backlash towards Rich... is specifically your your case your instance with him your claims against him or um just sort of like a build-up of tension and being done with rich or something else i'm curious what your take is of what triggered uh the because if people don't know he had a patreon i think of about was it eight thousand dollars at that time was it eight thousand dollars and it it's probably the fastest decline of a patreon i've ever seen it hit um it was like less than two thousand less than a week it really did just completely deflate i'm curious again if you think that that's uh because of you and your you know testimony and experiences specifically or something that he did or just like a culmination of being fed up with him well first of all he has uh 1:23:58 Unknown_02: a number of police reports from being accused of domestic violence from two other women besides myself that a lot of people didn't know about. And I don't know, for some reason, I have no idea why my story made a difference because a lot of people didn't believe Lady Ambien. Unknown_02: Kiwi Farms did, which is like, I actually... posted last night, I was like, the fact that you guys spread my story, because Jake P, he got permabanned for being a Kiwi. 1:24:57 Unknown_02: If you're not familiar, Jake P started the Yikes-a-roo thread that went up to over a thousand pages. Unknown_00: Oh, did they ban him? Because he posted on the forum? I didn't even know that. Unknown_02: He's perma. Unknown_02: Anyway, so... Unknown_02: I don't know why I was the straw that broke the camel's back because people didn't believe Lady Ambien. Unknown_02: People didn't even know about the accusations from his first wife. And I don't know why. Maybe it was because I had very publicly made an ass of myself and people knew that I was a very dumb, young, broad. 1:25:39 Unknown_02: And I guess I was a source of a lot of Unknown_02: entertainment um and i i guess i was a little more community facing yeah i was thinking that's probably it is the fact that he he presented you kind of as under unusual circumstances at a time he was having issues with his wife and they might have just accepted that but then you know like how many months later eight months later it kind of all topples over and they're just like ah fuck this fuck this guy well Also, he really bungled the whole situation with FYD. Oh, that's right, yeah. 1:26:22 Unknown_00: So, for people who don't know, he... Oh, I'm confusing it. I'm confusing it with FYAD, aren't I? Unknown_00: Oh, I just say it FYAD, yeah. Fuck You and Die. I thought you said F-Y-O-B. No, F-Y-A-D. Fuck You and Die was like an introspective board where people would take shots at something awful. And a lot of people didn't like that, particularly the boards that had a lot of trans posters because they believed that it was a transphobic board and they were making fun of them for being trans and stuff like that. And I think... low tax was it low tax that just deleted the board at the request of mods or what yeah they just said delete this board and he's like okay well I mean he it was a couple of a day ordeal I remember it pretty vividly like it pissed him off something fierce because he didn't like having to deal with that but when he you know he tried to I guess he tried to put out the fire and couldn't do it so he was like all right 1:27:08 Unknown_02: I'm just going to get rid of the board. And, uh, that I think that was a, you know, a lot of people on both sides of that issue felt that it was poorly handled and, uh, people haven't liked low tax for a long time. Like he, you know, on the forums, they, they are recounting countless stories of interactions with low tax that, you know, kind of, he may not have been the nicest person. 1:27:41 Unknown_02: And, uh, Unknown_02: You know, I, it's, it's, uh, I, I don't think it's entirely my fault, but I do feel a lot of, uh, I feel a lot of guilt and, um. 1:28:25 Unknown_00: For what? Unknown_00: Just for, for the lack of, you know, the Patreon falling and the downturn or. Unknown_02: I mean, he's told me that I, you know, he, I've talked to him on the phone and he was bawling. saying you've ruined my life is he crying on the phone yeah yeah it's pretty rough yeah and you know i have a lot of empathy for that i mean the guy abused me for months but um i did love him 1:29:09 Unknown_00: would you say that he loved you at any point or do you think that it was like a facade the entire time i don't think rich kyan could can love anybody but himself um Unknown_00: Okay. I think that that's all I got. Um, unless there's something that you want to add, you needed your, your whole, you know, your statement towards something awful and, and, and people listening, uh, any, any other information you think people should go away with? Unknown_02: Um, I mean, I guess not. I hope this was informative. Um, I, I suspect I'll probably get even more hate now, but it was nice to talk to you, Josh. I appreciate you reaching out. 1:29:56 Unknown_00: Well, thank you. I thank you for taking the time to talk to me. And one final question just for comedic relief. Did he ever share with you the cookies and pies from Gold Valley? People were asking. No, you never had one? I said, yeah, yeah. Oh, okay. Thank God. Unknown_02: Yeah, I had a few. Unknown_02: Um, I really liked, I like chocolate. So, uh, one time he bought these massive cookies. I'm talking like, like, like a foot around, like a foot diameter foot radius. There we go. But foot diameter, there we go. Um, a little, little frazzled. after this conversation um and uh they called them uh like monster cookies or something and it was this chocolate cookie i could not finish it never in my life have i ever thought that there would be too much chocolate but in that moment there was too much chocolate that's a that's a pretty pretty sweet story sitting around eating cookies together yeah i suppose on the couch because in my mental image it's always low taxes on the couch eating well it's like an otter 1:31:06 Unknown_02: He lays in bed, but some of my best memories are he has this killer Plex server. If you can get on that Plex server, it's great because he loves really weird movies like Hong Kong martial arts films from the 80s, bad 80s movies in general. And we would just watch these things and riff back and forth, almost like our own private riff tracks kind of thing. And it was so much fun. It was a blast. Unknown_00: All right. I think that's it. Thank you for, uh, for your time. 1:31:44 Unknown_02: Uh, thank you. And, uh, I'll see you on the forums. Unknown_00: You're going to, you're going to go right back. You're going to answer some questions there. Unknown_02: Oh, I don't know. I, I got, yeah, whatever. Unknown_00: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, well, all right. Take care. Unknown_00: Take it easy. Thank you. Unknown_00: All right. I guess she hung up first. Usually you talk to people a little bit afterwards, but whatever. 1:32:16 Unknown_00: Sorry for my absence, everyone. I'm sorry. I've been cast into oblivion. The immigration authorities the world over have very specifically decided that I am going to be stuck in Serbia for the rest of my natural life, so I just got to find a fucking stable internet connection and tough it out. Unknown_00: I apologize for the absence. Unknown_00: and I'll see you next time take it easy