A Conversation with PPP 2020-05-28

0:00:00
Unknown_02: So for me, it's not like I can say to you, oh, this isn't in the normal operating procedure of the site. All I can say is that my impression of the site, and I think what most people have the idea, the legend of Kiwi Farms, is a site where it's totally free speech. It's pretty much almost a free-for-all. Do you know what I mean? There's very little editorial control. You can pretty much post what you want, even if it does border sometimes on being rumor or hearsay or conjecture. I mean, would you agree that that's kind of an accurate assessment of what the site is? Or how would you kind of define it? Because that's what I think it is.

0:00:36
Unknown_00: So part of the problem is that a lot of people who, as you pointed out, don't use the site believe that there is some sort of foul play, specifically because they see things that seem odd to them because they've not used the site. When there are special circumstances, then moderators have stepped in pretty consistently in the past to... Try and keep things on top. The big thing is that you kept calling the trash fire thread a containment thread. And that's pretty typical with how we handle events. I actually had to make the trash fire thread for IBS way back when because there would be all these crossover events that didn't adequately fit into one person's thread. So it's like, let's make a... When this stuff happens... We'll make a crossover event thread. And that's what that is. When I locked the dick thread because of all the brigading and intrusion in it, I didn't actually have a plan on what to do.

0:01:10
Unknown_00: And you very specifically said that the trash fire thread that was created was something made at my instruction to take heat specifically off the dick thread. I actually didn't have that in mind when I locked the thread. I was going to wait a couple days before deciding what to do, but someone took the initiative to make that thread, and I decided that that was a good idea.

0:01:58
Unknown_02: So when I say these things, right, it's not to say 100% this is why Josh has made these actions. It's how it appears to me, right? Because, like, right away, so the first thing is, right, you have a new Project 2 account. which you make, I think, 1,800 and something a month on from docks.

Unknown_00: Between 12 and 14, because about a third of things bounce. Because on Patreon, if a card bounces, they're automatically unpledged, and that pledge doesn't count towards the total.

Unknown_00: That's not a feature on your project, too. So people who pledge with a gift card or whatever, and that gift card gets depleted, it doesn't actually remove that from the pledge moving forward.

0:02:41
Unknown_02: Do you know why that's not a feature?

Unknown_00: It took a while. It actually took a long time for Patreon to add that. It took several years for Patreon to get around to doing that.

Unknown_02: It's just because if it's supposed to be the true alternative, right? And Dax Herrera is supposed to be, like, he says that he knows how to code. Like, he's a coding wizard who's been around since 1997. He built the site himself. And if you wanted to make it a legitimate competitor to Patreon, you would think it would have that functionality, right?

Unknown_00: Yeah, eventually it would be a good idea.

0:03:15
Unknown_02: I mean, because you're pretty tight to it. Have you ever decided that you were going to go at it or asked him, hey, can I help you add this? Because you probably could, no?

Unknown_00: I did offer to do work for the site when it was brand new, but he said no. And I'm pretty sure he said no just to avoid that kind of financial entanglement. As it stands, he has never actually given me any of his own money.

Unknown_02: Well, when you mention financial entanglement, it brings to mind... I don't know if you saw the clip I played on my show yesterday, and that's on Leo Pirate's channel, where you say, in some ways, my success is tied to Dick's success.

0:03:53
Unknown_00: Yeah, I saw that. It made me laugh because someone had to pull up my Life is Strange streams to find that quote, which I hope they enjoyed. I know.

Unknown_02: I know. Well, that's why it didn't come up until now, because all the autists have been digging through trying to find it. They found it. And for them and for me, that suggests that there's a certain degree to which you are dependent on Dick Masterson for your livelihood, for your income. Your success is tied to his success. And when I say, for instance, if my success is tied to my grandfather's success in preaching, I'm going to defend him to the end. to make sure that my success perpetuates through his success. And so for me, when you say your success is tied to his success, it would imply to me that your behavior then would be to defend him from any and all kind of attacks. Do you see where I'm coming from with that?

0:04:33
Unknown_00: Well, that's implying implications. When I say my success is tied to his success, I very specifically meant in the case of New Project 2. If New Project 2 succeeds, which I hope it does, then it will be a stable platform for me to continue to collect donations from supporters. But New Project 2 runs through Dick Masterson or Dax Herrera's bank account.

0:05:09
Unknown_02: It's been coded by him. It's highly tied to the public perception of Dax.

Unknown_00: Yes, I agree with that.

Unknown_00: Right. So like all the banks dumped him because of potential associate, not to say it was you or anybody in particular, but because of associations.

Unknown_02: Right. That made him look bad. And so if he looks bad, the site suffers. Do you know what I mean?

Unknown_00: Well, the perceptions that he has to be wary of are things that would get him on the Anti-Defamation League hate watch, because those are the things that get bankers involved, is hate speech. I would be very disappointed in him if he made the move to let someone on like Richard Spencer, who is definitely on a lot of hate lists.

0:05:46
Unknown_00: He said that he wouldn't let, for instance, Milo on, right? Really, Milo? Yeah. Is that because he's Jewish?

Unknown_02: I don't know. I mean, Dick himself, I guess, is half Jewish, so I imagine it wouldn't be for that reason.

Unknown_00: Is that true?

Unknown_02: This is what I've heard. I've heard that he's half Mexican, half Jewish.

Unknown_00: I think people just call him Jewish to fuck with him. When they call me Jewish, that's not because I'm actually Jewish.

Unknown_02: It's just your behavior is Jewish.

0:06:26
Unknown_00: I just have cold hands. You don't have to hate.

Unknown_02: So this is the other problem, too, with the website, right? Not to detract from kind of where we're going with you being tied in with his success, but it's not really a true alternative because Milo Yiannopoulos, who, you know, at one time was such a big figure and so renowned that Ethan Ralph used to call him Master Milo. You know, people used to really love and respect Milo. He was the biggest conservative star in the world for like a year straight. And he's been deplatformed from everything because of comments that he made that I don't approve of, but that seemed to be offhand comments.

0:07:04
Unknown_02: And, you know, he's like the biggest victim of censorship there is. So you'd figure he'd be allowed on New Project 2 if it was really about protecting free speech and offering an alternative, right?

Unknown_00: I mean, I don't know specifically who he says is and is not allowed. Like, I heard that he said he wouldn't let Coach on, which sounded a bit weird to me, because why not? I'll tell you about that one.

Unknown_02: Like, Coach, apparently he says...

Unknown_02: He did a stream called How Blackmail's Done and How It Works, which, of course, he would know being coach.

0:07:38
Unknown_02: You know, it was about New Project 2 being a scam and this and that. And he said that Dick had sent him the forms and everything to apply for one, but that he never did it. So I think Coach is allowed because of the relationship they had in Knoxville.

Unknown_00: That's so stupid. Since you brought that up, actually, I think Jim already covered this, but with those IRS forms, it's standard. And the argument that the companies are too expensive to form, I have like four because it's like $50 a year in Wyoming.

0:08:13
Unknown_00: Um, it's very inexpensive to get a LLC up. It's very, it's free to get an EID from the IRS. And then you can just use that EID in place of an SSN, you know, and you get like a registered agent and the mailing address since it's cheap. It's $50 a year. Yeah.

Unknown_02: There's nothing per se wrong with Dick Masterson filing a 1099 form, right? I mean, everybody has to do it legally to comply with the law. The whole point about the 1099 form was just that there was a debate going on between me and you in the chat.

Unknown_02: About whether or not DAX had access to your social security number, right? So because he has to file a 1099, he has to have access to your social security number.

0:08:49
Unknown_00: Incorrect. He has to have access to your social security number if you are filing a 1099 as an individual. If you're filing as a corporation, you get an EID instead of the SSM.

Unknown_02: Okay, okay, but at the end of the day, he still has access to your personal information.

Unknown_00: He has access to my phone number, my business address, which is on the site, and he has access to my EID. But once again, right, we have to look at the fact that an LLC is something that not everybody is going to set up.

Unknown_02: I mean, Rakeda admitted that he didn't set up an LLC, even though he's a lawyer. It's an individual filing. and he received the 1099 from New Project 2. So, like, when even Rakeda, who's a lawyer, isn't doing it that way, I just wonder if the average user of the site would take time to form an LLC.

0:09:28
Unknown_00: Then it's stupid. Like, that's... yeah well i think you'd be stupid to sign up for new project two in the first place well then you could say the same about anything like he makes tons of money off super chats does he not have an he should be using the same eid he uses for that and for his new product if he's collecting those super chats on his fucking ssn and then the eid then that's stupid he needs to get a tax attorney to get an llc for that shit because that's personal income not corporate income

0:10:11
Unknown_02: So I think, I think that people are kind of familiar with how like new, if they're not, you want to give them kind of a synopsis. Cause I think you know how it runs better than I, um, because he uses the third party payment processor, right?

Unknown_00: So I mean, it's not an option. You can't like, it costs like a million dollars of investment to become a payment processor yourself.

Unknown_02: Yeah. So in your understanding, right? What access, like what info would be put into new project to that they would have access to?

Unknown_00: When you check out through New Project 2, and you can just forge, pretend to do a subscription to test this out, it takes you to a Visa or MasterCard payment gateway, which is entirely on a third-party service. So when you enter in that information, it doesn't ever touch New Project 2 at all. It never touches the server.

0:10:56
Unknown_00: What happens is you fill out the information directly on the authorized .NET payment gateway, and that goes to the payment processor.

Unknown_00: and the payment processor automatically triggers an api call with a token and that token represents that transaction okay okay so you're saying that what you know if you're just making a donation on new project to you know docs isn't going to have access to your info as a donator it will have the the email address that you use to sign up with and it will have uh the token yes that's it okay

0:11:34
Unknown_02: It's just hard for me to believe, though, that when you enter information into the new Project 2 site, because like when... You're not entering it into the new Project 2 site, you're entering it into the Authorize.net gateway payment protocol. Okay, okay, into the Authorize.net gateway. It's just for me, like when you look at the privacy policy, right, it says that they can keep any information... on you for administrative reasons, for security reasons, for legal reasons. So I just think any information that New Project 2 receives is kept on file basically forever, according to their own privacy policy, right? And so I think the concern isn't even more so with the individual users donating because there's really no motivation to really fuck with them. The concern is more so on the creator end of things, you know, with the information that you guys have provided to him that might give him leverage over you.

0:12:16
Unknown_02: Do you want to comment a little on the privacy policy of New Project 2? Because it's like it's half written. Seven of the fields are blank.

Unknown_00: I think it's like a stock privacy policy. You should probably pay an attorney to flesh that out to accurately reflect what's being stored. Like with 9chan, I kind of fleshed... I wrote it myself. I'm sure it's shit. I'm sure it's not legally applicable at all. I'm sure if I try to use that in court, someone would laugh it out. But...

Unknown_00: I tried to at least represent to the best of my ability what kind of information gets stored. Exactly, right? It's the same thing with Nick. I would say if you're legitimately using your SSN to collect income from New Project 2 and fucking SuperJazz, for God's sakes, get a company. What are you doing? With Dick, it's like, yeah, hire an attorney to get this legitimized.

0:12:57
Unknown_02: Right, so you would say that based on the privacy policy, the website's legitimacy is a little bit in doubt because it's half filled out and it's just a stock privacy policy.

Unknown_00: Yeah, I mean, it doesn't look good if you're someone who's really interested in that kind of detail. I mean, nobody usually reads those things, which I'm sure is why it didn't get fleshed out.

0:13:32
Unknown_02: Well, exactly. I was just so surprised because...

Unknown_02: I mean, this is part of the reason why I started to take it a bit more seriously was the moment Leo went to the privacy policy and went, hey guys, like seven of the fields here are blank. What the fuck? I go, no, that can't be true. Sends it to me. Sure enough, seven of the fucking fields on how your information is stored, you know, how we protect your privacy, like how we protect your privacy is blank.

Unknown_01: You know, that's the worst field to leave blank.

0:14:08
Unknown_02: That's the only field we really need to know. Really? Fuck. You know, in the privacy policy, how do you protect it? And then when you hear that your data can be stored forever.

Unknown_02: You go, well, fuck, this is kind of weird. You know, like just the other issue with the site itself. Now, again, I'm no fucking computer expert. I kind of default to you as the fucking wizard. So like it's a WordPress site. How secure really is it as a WordPress site?

Unknown_00: Pretty secure. It's like a meme to use WordPress for shit. But WordPress at one point powered half the internet. Like half of all public-facing websites use WordPress. So it's one of the most widely distributed, used, and penetration-tested applications. Yeah. And it does have a history of security vulnerabilities, but I'm pretty sure that he uses a third-party service to manage that, and they have their own line of security patches and stuff. Because I just don't know.

0:14:43
Unknown_02: When I look at the website, it looks really unprofessional. It looks like something that...

0:15:16
Unknown_00: It uses the default, I think the 2019 is what it's called, the 2019 WordPress theme with some of its custom. Because even I feel like with fucking Wix or something, I could whip up a site that fucking looks like that inside a day.

Unknown_02: Yeah, it wouldn't have the custom functionality or whatever, but that's basically what it is.

Unknown_02: so it's just like shit like this is supposed to be the alternative to Patreon this is supposed to be you know our big tech alternative but like the site's been up for what two years now hasn't it and it still looks like that

Unknown_02: I'm not sure how long it's been up. I know it's been up fuck longer than a year at least, though.

0:15:52
Unknown_00: The issue with that is in order for him to flesh it out more, he would have to hire a team. And that would be a lot of money. And the site doesn't make that much money. It has a volunteer basis for paying fees and stuff. Mine is like 3%. So you're talking like...

Unknown_00: Like $45 a month is what he gets from me. You know, I understand that it would cost money in this, but in my conversation with Dax, he told me he fucks his girlfriend on piles of money in the Barbie Dream Mansion. People who have a lot of money tend not to spend it. That is what I've learned dealing with people who are wealthy.

0:16:28
Unknown_02: It's just interesting to me. If this is such a passion project for freedom of speech... and for dissident voices and politics, that we wouldn't have put just a little bit more effort into this fucking thing to make it look like a professional operation and to fill out the privacy policy. And I understand that there are apparently vulnerabilities on the site where just going through, I don't know if this is the correct term, but just like the Google Cash or whatever, you can get behind the paywall. It's very easy to get behind the paywall of this site.

0:17:02
Unknown_00: I think the only person who uses that is Dick. So it would be up to him to fix it. I can imagine, like, yeah, I think you can bypass the RSS feed or something.

Unknown_02: Yeah.

Unknown_00: Like, I hate to use Voldemort's name, so I won't.

Unknown_02: but like he was saying like he wasn't the one that found that i'm pretty sure but yeah it's it's a thing where you can bypass the login requirement for the rss feed and i'm pretty sure that's intentional because otherwise you wouldn't be able to get rss updates from the blog um but yeah i don't know i mean that's that's again that's up to dick because nobody else uses paywalls on that site he's the only one that has paywall content It's just like if we're supposed to be the alternative to Patreon, you need to be able to offer a secure paywall for creators, right? It doesn't make sense to me. For who, though?

0:17:48
Unknown_00: For Podawful? We got to get Jesse up in there with his paywall content? We really got to fight for that. I don't agree with these things in the first place, right?

Unknown_02: I'm not really a big fan of monetized content on the internet, but that's a separate issue. I mean, the fucking the main thing is, like, if this is supposed to be right, an alternative to Patreon, if it's supposed to be the free speech alternative and to be to take the market away from Patreon, I would expect it to be a better developed site, better aesthetically looking. I'd expect the privacy policy to be put together. I would expect credit card functionality to work where shit just doesn't just bounce and stay on. You know, I would expect that you wouldn't be able to circumvent paywalls.

0:18:31
Unknown_02: And I would expect that it wouldn't be a fucking WordPress site, which you've said has some vulnerabilities. You know, I don't know if it's more so than others, but you know where I, you know where I'm coming from, where on initial glance, you go, this doesn't seem like what it looks like, you know?

Unknown_00: What it is, and I can tell you in the technical term, it's called a minimum viable product. That is something that you get up so that you can put it out there and people can use it. And then based off the success of the minimum viable product, you can reinvest money into building it into something that's more than minimum.

0:19:07
Unknown_00: If New Project 2 continued to be successful, he could afford to take the revenue of the project and reinvest that into building it back up.

Unknown_00: I understand that. It's just, yeah, I just, it seems like to me, like even at law, like I understand it being in this condition.

Unknown_02: It's like people are fucking losing out on money. They might be homeless. People are important. We need to protect them. So I'm going to put up this site in a fucking sorry ass shitty condition, but it's going to work. And you know, people are, people are going to get their money. I get it. The issue is that like two years on three years on, It's still looking like this. The privacy policy not being filled out. Functionality being missing. These things lead me to believe that this isn't a true serious alternative to Patreon.

0:19:41
Unknown_02: And we already have like...

Unknown_02: I can't really speak to the total veracity of this, but there's, like, Ko-Fi. There's Gumroad, isn't there? I don't know about Gumroad.

0:20:15
Unknown_00: I've contacted the Subscribestar people, and I said, like, look, this is who I am. What are my options with Subscribestar? And I just thought I'd throw it up there as, like, an alternative. If you want to use Subscribestar instead, like, it won't hurt my feelings, right? So they said that they'd bring it up in their weekly Friday board meeting. They have to bring it before the council to decide. Oh, fuck.

0:20:46
Unknown_00: I thought that was funny. We have a known domestic terrorist, an international fugitive.

Unknown_02: Joshua Moon tries to convince the council to allow him to make $100 a month. Fuck. You know?

Unknown_00: That's why I'm not complaining too loudly.

Unknown_00: If there is any kind of argument for being biased, my opinion of things like the privacy policy and looking like a default WordPress theme is probably extremely tapered by the fact that it works. It works.

0:21:24
Unknown_02: It works for you, right?

Unknown_02: But this is the other thing. Where I'm getting at with this is that

Unknown_02: To me, I started to look to me, like when I looked at the website and I said to myself, this doesn't look like a true alternative. What is it then? Is it a way for Dax to control other creators, to control what's being talked about, about him online?

Unknown_00: I think it's just more that it's a place for him to help people that he likes.

0:21:55
Unknown_00: Maybe that sounds like really nepotistic, like, oh, it's for people he likes, right?

Unknown_00: I think you're right. It's for people that he likes.

Unknown_00: For instance, here's a good allegory in my field. I have 1776 hosting. It's a default WHMCS theme. It's a default...

Unknown_00: Yeah, it's just like, you know, it's very basic. It has two announcements a year apart. It has, you know, rudimentary services. It's not an excellent hosting platform. It just isn't. The real service is that when a person complains to Cloudflare and that complaint is forwarded to the owner of the IP address, it comes to me. That is the entire product. So the people who tend to buy it are people who don't value price because my shit's expensive. who don't want the most convenient interface possible because it looks like shit. People who don't particularly care about space requirements because all my stuff's SSD and there's no expansion options. People who don't care about uptime because my fucking network just goes down randomly all the goddamn time and I have to fix it by having someone wheel a fucking laptop up and plug it to a fucking serial port. Old school style for me to fix it. Holy shit. So the people on my shit are people I know who know me and who want me to read their email, basically. And that's good, man.

0:23:10
Unknown_02: But going back to what you said, you're right. It's for people that Dick likes. My issue becomes, what if he no longer likes you?

Unknown_02: Right? If he no longer likes you, then he says, I have the right to refuse service at any time.

Unknown_00: I guess I'll bump off and find something else, or I won't.

0:23:41
Unknown_02: I mean, that's well and true, Josh, I guess. But the issue I have is, you've said, my success is tied to Dick's success. And people on his website are there because he likes them.

Unknown_02: And when you have those two statements, it presents a conflict of interest when there's a Dick Masterson thread

Unknown_02: And you've decided to lock it, right? It doesn't matter if it was brigaded or whatever. It gives the appearance of a conflict of interest. Do you see what I mean?

0:24:15
Unknown_00: Yeah, I do. But, I mean, it's open now. There's, like, four different threads for people to talk about related drama. It's ongoing. I know. And I can't really... I can't help... I can only help what I can do. You know what I mean? I can't... Well, you can't change the past, and I'm not asking you to change the past. No, no, it's not changing the past. It's I can only do... I can only do what I can do, and I can't force other people to perceive things differently.

Unknown_00: Can you... Because there's a lot of things that I use that I don't want to use. We can't control people's perception, but we can try and alter it.

0:24:49
Unknown_02: But why would I?

Unknown_02: Well, if people had a different perception of you, Josh, you wouldn't have as many problems as you have, right?

Unknown_00: Well, the people who are angry are not the people who are going to get me back into the good graces of the cabal. They're going to get me back into Patreon. The people who are angry right now are people... That's true.

Unknown_02: You got a point there. I'm just saying that

Unknown_02: Like, let's go through it one at a time, right? So where this starts, where your involvement starts in this that I consider suspicious, is you post about Dax's mansion in his thread, Defending the Mansion.

0:25:26
Unknown_02: And I just wonder why you've come in to defend the mansion. Like, why?

Unknown_00: Because it's a fucking expensive house, nigga. I want an expensive house. If someone said that my million-dollar... I don't give a fuck if it was a hut in the middle of Ukraine. If it cost a million dollars, you will refer to my mansion as a mansion, as far as I'm concerned. Because I... I mean, I would, okay, he's talking about moving. I think it would be funny if he sold his, you know, Beverly Hills house or whatever the fuck. Beverly Hills garage, Beverly Hills shack, Beverly Hills shanty, Beverly Hills double wide trailer with fleas and a cat. It would be funny if he sold that and bought a proper, a house that's very specifically 5,001 square feet in Texas.

0:26:04
Unknown_02: You've seen Jim's property, right? His new one.

Unknown_02: that to me is more of a mansion than dax herrera's property even though it's one-fifth the cost so i mean if it's a big house it's a big house i my thing was i thought the mansion was just the the price tag i thought if a house was a million dollars it's a mansion but no apparently it's very specifically square feet so yeah i was just wrong about what details a mansion i guess It's just like it's just it blows my mind, though, that you come into this thread to defend Dax Herrera, even though defending him publicly on your own forum would lend to appear to be a conflict of interest and trying to have him avoid embarrassment. And because if he's embarrassed and his public profile goes down, your success is tied to his.

0:26:57
Unknown_00: For having a civil dispute about Crack Shack or Mansion.

Unknown_02: If it was just this, right? If it was just this, it wouldn't be a fucking problem, Josh. You know what I mean? Crack Shack or Mansion, it don't fucking matter. Okay, hold on.

Unknown_00: We have to do the thing. Chat, press. Actually, can I get like a picture of his house? Surely someone must have a picture of his house. I want to do it. Oh, they do. I want to do a crack checker mansion just real fast.

Unknown_00: Cause I want to, and I want to remind people what it looks like. Cause you can't, you can't, you can't be an asshole and do the one where it's like from the street view. Cause he, he lives on the Hills. So it's like the top floor where you enter is just the top of the house. And you, you walk downstairs and shit and there's more of it.

0:27:32
Unknown_02: The street view is total marketing.

Unknown_00: Which is the one that we all use.

Unknown_00: Doesn't that change people's optics? Doesn't that have a conflict of interest when you only use the front house?

Unknown_02: I don't get paid for what I do. That's the difference.

Unknown_02: But it doesn't fucking matter. At the end of the day, whether it's a crack shack or a mansion is really irrelevant. It's just that you're commenting on it. But go ahead, do the fucking...

0:28:10
Unknown_00: Oh, it's not in the OP for something. The OP for his thread sucks. No, it sucks ass. Someone needs to write a new one.

Unknown_02: Yeah, I know.

Unknown_00: Why don't you do it? You have an account, right? No, I don't. No, I'll never have an account, Josh.

Unknown_02: I don't think so. I don't think so.

Unknown_02: If I have a thread, no, I have an account, I'll just go into my own thread all day, just like Ralph, yell at them, how dare you, how dare you say this about me?

0:28:48
Unknown_02: Fuck.

Unknown_00: What if he got mad at something in this thread recently I forgot about? Okay, here, I'll just do this. I couldn't find a better picture. Someone happened to post it.

Unknown_00: okay chat is this a crack shack or a mansion i need i need you all to enlighten me and i mean at least i don't know i was gonna say that the yard looks nice but the yard looks about as nice as my house did in florida and i didn't really take care of it yeah it's not it's not what i would consider to be a mansion like i think of mansions as like

0:29:23
Unknown_02: I don't know. Like when I was growing up, I almost felt like I lived in a mansion because it was like five bedrooms with like three bathrooms and fucking had a jacuzzi tub in it and a fucking veranda deck. And it was on three acres. I'd almost consider that a mansion, but I didn't. Like I consider a mansion to be like a real fucking estate. Do you know what I mean? Where you have, like, more than five bedrooms, you know, like 10 or 15, 20 bedrooms.

Unknown_00: Do you know what I mean? I've been to Graceland, and I guess that would be Elvis Presley's estate, and that would be a fair mansion, but...

0:29:56
Unknown_02: yeah because what happens right so the discussion comes up about the mansion like what my impression of it was and without reading the post back to you verbatim it's kind of we lose a lot of the context but it seemed to me like you got pissed that people told you it was a fucking crack shack instead of a mansion and then you locked the threat that's what it looked like to me like you got mad that people were saying no it's not a fucking mansion so you locked it you know

Unknown_00: What was actually the triggering event for that was it was like the third time where like five or ten new accounts joined specifically to start posting in the dick thread. Specifically to start tagging me into it. Specifically to try and get me to move that thread to a different board and change it. And I just don't like that.

Unknown_02: No, I get that, but can't you just ignore their pleas and just say fuck it?

Unknown_00: And just leave it open?

0:30:53
Unknown_02: I mean, I could have, I guess.

Unknown_00: I guess that would have been the smart thing to do. I get really indignant about it, though. Who the fuck do you think you are? I give way too much to have people tell me to win my say. Well, this is where my meme comes from, that it's opposite day with Josh.

Unknown_02: If I tell Josh to get his life together and to fucking pull it through... You know, he'll fall into self-dependency. But if I tell him to kill himself, he'll fucking improve his life tenfold. You know, you just... Whatever somebody tells you to do, you're like, fuck you, motherfucker. I'll do the opposite tenfold, cunt. You know?

0:31:26
Unknown_02: And so, like, that's what I'm saying is, you know, like, I don't understand why you wouldn't have just fucking left the thread open. Because then there can be no suggestion that you weren't just shitposting about the mansion. Instead, it looks like you got defensive about it because... Again, I hate to say this, but the cleanup you were doing for Mr. Herrera didn't work and didn't stop him from being embarrassed, and so you locked the thread.

Unknown_00: I didn't delete anything in that thread. I locked it because I needed time to think about what to do with it.

Unknown_02: Well, true. You don't need to delete anything in it because, one, it's in multimedia. So like, here's the thing, Josh, if you were really cleaning it up for dick, your best move would have been to leave it in multimedia, leave it unlocked and just ignore all this fucking bullshit, you know, but because but because you fucking lock the goddamn thing. And then started what I say is a containment thread. But the reality is it's not a containment thread because it was very visible. It's not like buried somewhere.

0:32:19
Unknown_00: It was featured.

Unknown_02: But what bothers me about that is then it stops people from posting in Dax's own thread about issues related to him. And so that when people then in the future go to look into Dax Herrera on Kiwi Farms, they don't get a full picture of Dax because 500 pages worth of fucking shit on him is in a locked thread in Trashfire that nobody's going to find a year from now. Do you know? Do you see what I mean?

0:32:56
Unknown_00: It's like with the actual Trashfire thread itself. The forum is a collaborative effort. You decide your own level of involvement. Like, very few threads are personally made by me. And I'll rush them out if I feel it's like a hot button issue. But if you... Like if someone wants to rewrite an OP for a thread, they have to submit it forward. And then I have to run like eight different database queries to manually change the OP to be that post. But I'll do it. I mean, it's just that as far as any of these people go, not one of them has had the gumption or the incentive to sit down and say, I'm going to write a really good page or a really good article about this and ask them to be the new OP. Okay. And that's what's different. Why do other threads get different treatment? Because the people posting to those threads understand the forum, understand the process, and they're not just transplants from image boards trying to execute some vengeance on this guy.

0:33:33
Unknown_02: Right. Now, but I mean, is there anything wrong with there being transplants from image boards wanting to execute vengeance on a lolcow?

Unknown_00: Yeah, it's because it's fucking gay and it's not funny.

Unknown_00: The forum is not like a weapon to be used. But is it about ethics and lolcow milking? Yeah, because if it's not funny, why even bother?

0:34:06
Unknown_02: Okay, I kind of agree with you. Like, I do agree with you that we shouldn't just be, you know, grinding axes against motherfuckers trying to ruin their lives.

Unknown_00: That's very specifically what a lot of this is. I think I still maintain that the entire reason that this is even happening, the reason why there's this look into New Project 2 and Dick is because Dick makes continued appearances on Ethan Ralph's show. And I think that a lot of this is just people trying to fucking end Ethan Ralph.

Unknown_02: There's undoubtedly a lot of people who hate Ethan Ralph that also hate Dax Herrera. It's just when you say like it's about ethics and low cow milking, right? It's just, for me, that's not the image I get of Kiwi Farms. Now, again, I'm not a regular user. It's just, like, when I read the tin of Kiwi Farms, I think, I can do anything now. You know, this is the Wild West. This is 2005 again, right?

0:34:40
Unknown_00: I try to avoid saying the site is a free speech site. And that's very, like, moot-esque to say that it's not a free speech site. But I try to avoid that description for the same reason I try to avoid the term liberal. Like, I'm technically a liberal. If you look at what I believe... I'm a liberal, but I can't call, I can't call myself that. Yeah, no, that's exactly like Sargon had the same train of thought. He can't call himself a liberal because you assign that to like the, the gender toad people and it's just a disgusting mental image. So it's like, let's come up with something new. I'll call myself a liberalist or a libertarian. So I ended up calling myself a libertarian, but I really don't believe in unrestricted rights for private corporations. I don't believe in the personhood of corporations. Um,

0:35:15
Unknown_00: You're not a big Mitt Romney guy? People, my friend. I try to avoid saying free speech, because free speech is a concept, and people have very different ideas of what free speech is to them. Everyone has a different idea of where the boundaries are.

0:35:49
Unknown_02: Where do you draw the boundary, Josh? Where is the boundary drawn?

Unknown_00: I try to say free expression instead. I think that people should be allowed to say what they want. And opine as they want and look into things and share things and evaluate things without any pressures. Because I know you as the guy who told the New Zealand government to get fucked. Right. Because they tried – the very – what gets me is – and I don't post a lot of the emails I get. We talked about my emails before we went live and I – talked about how I still get those very naive emails like, oh, I'm going to go to the police about this threat if you don't take it. I still get those. I just don't publish them because the naivety is almost cute to me. What I publish is the impertinent email where it's like they don't understand that they're asking for a request. They're making a demand.

0:36:27
Unknown_00: And that's what gets to me. The New Zealand police with a position of zero authority dictated to me that I will preserve IP addresses of users.

0:37:01
Unknown_00: So that I can send them the IP address of everyone who participated in that Brenton Tarrant thread. So that they could imprison people who were participants and who lived in New Zealand.

Unknown_00: That's what they told me. And I read that and I became unfathomably upset. I'm like, how fucking dare you say this to me? And I totally agree with you, Josh.

Unknown_02: This is one of the things where me and Godwinson disagree. He believes that you should have complied with the government's orders. I believe.

Unknown_00: Oh, I fucking hate the British. Why are they all awful?

Unknown_02: Yeah, I know. I have these, I have these conversations with them and I believe that you were right to do that. Um,

0:37:38
Unknown_02: It's just the difference for me becomes like there's that instance. The other one Godwinson will bring up to me is that I don't know if this is true. Did one of the moderators behead his girlfriend? And like... What?

Unknown_02: Was there some sort of person who got beheaded in your hosting images? Oh! Oh, you're thinking of the chick from R9K, Cracky Chan.

0:38:09
Unknown_00: Okay, yeah, I remember this now. Okay, the reason why he's upset about that is I think she was 17. What happened is she was like a drug user. And she baited along this guy from R9K from 4chan. That's from what I understand. And they had a falling out. And he got her into his car and slit her throat and took video of it and posted it on Instagram. And I put that up on the site.

Unknown_02: Right. And so this is fine, right?

Unknown_02: I thought maybe that one is different because there's not as much of a newsworthy or journalistic reason to keep it up. But I still believe you have a right to keep it up.

0:38:44
Unknown_02: But it's where this relates to New Project 2 and the dick thread and all this is you allow a person's beheaded head to be shown, you allowed the Christchurch shooting to be shown, but you won't allow 10 users to brigade a Dax Herrera thread. And that to me is weird.

Unknown_02: And with the financial ties you have to Dax Herrera... It's not... Okay, this is my perspective, and I developed this a long time ago, where I have a rule against backseat moderating.

0:39:20
Unknown_00: And I really hate it when someone makes a new thread, and they say, this is a person I am passionate about. I think they're funny. I watch their stuff, and I laugh at it. And then a bunch of people reply going, how is this a locale? This thread is so bad. You didn't do a good job on this OP at all. I don't see where the funny is. I hate those fucking people. Shut the fuck up. If you don't have something to add to the thread and you're not a moderator, don't tear it down. If you don't give a fuck, don't post. That's a guiding rule everywhere. If you don't care, don't post. And these people who go into a thread that's brand new, that someone made from the bottom of their heart, yadda yadda,

Unknown_00: and just try and shit on it, I consider that a form of censorship. I consider going into something and trying to shut down the conversation or redirect it or shift it artificially in certain directions, I consider that all a form of censorship to a point. Which is why, as I said, I like to use the term free expression. Because I think people should be allowed to express their opinion without external pressures. As opposed to free speech, which could be construed to mean I'm allowed to say whatever I want. I'm allowed to post Viagra ads on your website if you try to stop me at censorship. You know what I mean?

0:39:58
Unknown_02: When you say altering...

Unknown_02: the conversation or redirecting the conversation as a form of censorship. I know you're speaking about that specific context of backseat moderation, but you realize that that's what you did with the Dax Herrera thread and the Trashfire thread, right?

0:40:49
Unknown_00: In what sense?

Unknown_02: Well, you redirected the conversation from Dax's multimedia thread to the Trashfire thread, and you altered the conversation by locking both...

Unknown_00: By giving it a place to grow, it's a way to help the conversation by organizing it. No, I understand that it allows the conversation. That's a huge part of what being the forum Jani is, is organizing things. I mean, it's more of a clerical job. No, no, but I just, I mean, by your own words, right, to alter the discussion or to...

0:41:19
Unknown_02: Redirect the discussion as a form of censorship, so I just wanted to bring out how that kind of contradict it But I understand you were speaking about it in a specific context related I disagree that making a thread specifically for the event is in any way a misdirection or because you can still talk about dick There's three direction rights and and the thread opened at some point before that other thread closed So if you wanted to add something if you wanted to double post something into the other thread you're more than able to and But you would agree to me that by locking the thread, the DAX-Terrera thread initially, that alters the conversation, right, going forward?

Unknown_02: Because there's always going to be a question of why was this locked?

Unknown_00: That's really meta. That's like a butterfly effect kind of question. That's beyond the scope of a space station janitor. You know what I mean?

Unknown_02: Space station janitor. Look, man, I'm just saying there's some things here, and I think you would agree with me, where there are decisions that people could conclude have been influenced by the money that you get from DAX, right?

0:42:18
Unknown_00: In what way, specifically? Like, I'm inclined to like him more as a person because he has done things, he has put himself out in a position of vulnerability to assist me in my site, to advertise, to let me on. When I first showed up on The Dick Show, you can go and find this episode, I was very nervous. It was one of the first times I ever went on the mic to talk to someone about something that the forum was. And you could hear, if you think my voice sounds bad ordinarily, you should hear what I sound like when I'm extremely nervous You sound strong today. A lot better than most of your streams, to be honest.

0:42:57
Unknown_00: uh that's kind of a trump compliment yeah it's a backhanded compliment um but no specifically that episode when i was slated to come on uh he got an email from from vordrak and uh vordrak was like this guy is you know a pedophile this guy runs a website that kills people this guy is a terrorist this guy yada yada the whole vordrak spiel And Dick emails me like, who the fuck is this guy? I never had a guest who gets slated to come on. And then I can email a week before that's saying all this shit. That's crazy. And that, if anything, is what sealed Dick's interest in me and my site is that this motherfucker comes out the woodwork to try and shut it down immediately as soon as I get scheduled to come on.

Unknown_00: uh so uh i forgot what point i was going to make but oh no that's that's why i like him because he's he's done things for me that people don't have to nobody has to nobody has to give a fuck about me or my interest and yeah no from the count that uh i've got uh for i understand you've been on 11 times really

0:43:57
Unknown_02: yeah so you've been on actually five percent of all dick shows oh my god joshua moon and uh but so that was just some something that somebody sent me to say wow this guy you know he really is tied in tight with dick to where he's been on 11 times and uh he's getting eighteen hundred dollars from him and hold up hold up hold up is that the real ralph did ralph really say that

Unknown_02: Oh, my God. Who knows, man?

Unknown_00: No, hold on. See, here's this. Please, I have to repeat this if he actually said this. It's on DLive. I have to check. The Ralph Retort.

Unknown_01: There it is. View channel.

Unknown_01: This has to be it.

Unknown_00: Yeah. Ralph says, why doesn't he just interview Corey Barnhill next?

Unknown_02: What a piece of shit. What a piece of shit. Wow, dude. Is that really him? Yeah, that's him. He said that.

0:44:52
Unknown_00: He doesn't have a verified sticker on DLive, so I was unsure at first. So just one quick point to make right away.

Unknown_02: Ethan Ralph has had Corey Barnhill on his program how many times? He's also had you on his program how many times? I'm not even having you on my platform either. I'm on your platform. So the idea that he's having that somehow he can stand on a fucking moral high ground and spit on me or spit on you over Corey Barnhill is a fucking fraud.

0:45:25
Unknown_02: But, you know, this is the sort of guy that he is. He's probably drunk, fucked two, three in the afternoon, fucking wasted out of his mind. And he has nothing better to do than watch his enemies, you know, talk about something that really has fuck all to do with him, really. Other than that he's on the fucking site making his fucking pit in $300.

Unknown_02: Fucking bum.

Unknown_02: Hate to go off on a rant on him.

Unknown_00: He made $1,000, he said. Where are you getting these numbers?

Unknown_02: Well, on his new project, too, what is it, 300 bucks a month, right?

Unknown_00: Does he use new project, too, or does he use Patreon?

0:46:00
Unknown_02: Both.

Unknown_02: Yeah. Which is another thing that's fucking weird, is people using both when, you know... Oh, that's not weird.

Unknown_00: I mean, I consider all that, like, the Sargon argument. Like, if you believe this, why don't you quit Patreon? Why don't you quit new project, too? Because it's money. Money doesn't have a political affiliation, right? You know, exploit every resource that you have available to you that doesn't compromise your product or your core mission.

Unknown_00: Like, I use Cloudflare, and I have some qualms with Cloudflare. I use a lot of services.

0:46:32
Unknown_00: Like, I have a MasterCard and Visa card in my wallet because I need one. It's not because I support MasterCard and Visa card, you know?

Unknown_02: No, I understand. There are certain things where you have business with companies.

Unknown_00: We were having a conversation about religion before we started streaming. Yeah. And we brought up marriage as an instance of a materialistic thing, which I find I don't agree with at all. You say that. An ascetic lifestyle with dedication to Christ and God is the true virtue. And foregoing marriage because, you know, what is it? Adultery is committed in the mind, in the eye of the beholder, and not necessarily by having sex.

0:47:06
Unknown_02: Yeah, but let me explain this. Let me explain. So what I mean by this, right? There is nothing sinful about marriage. There is nothing wrong with getting married and having children. As you pointed out in Genesis 9-12, be fruitful and multiply. Matthew 5, Jesus goes over that same, quotes that same verse, right? There's nothing wrong with that. But the Apostle Paul points out in 1 Corinthians 7, I think 8-9, he says, it's better for you to not be married. He's speaking to the Christians at that time. And the specific context is this. Under the Roman Empire, they're under hard persecution for being a Christian. You could be killed for being a Christian. So if you have a family and you have children, they can be used against you by the state as a chip to influence your faith and to break down your faith. We live in somewhat similar times today where a lot of governments take issue with Christianity. And so for a lot of people, it is better that they not have a family. But the Apostle Paul says, if you burn and you're going to sin... You're going to commit adultery because you don't have a wife. It's better for you to be married. And most people, 99% of people fit into the group. It's better for them to be married.

0:48:20
Unknown_02: There's only about maybe less than 1% of people that it'd be better for them to be eunuchs for Christ and to focus their whole life on God.

Unknown_02: But the Catholic conception as well, that a priest has to be celibate, is incorrect. You don't have to be celibate to be a preacher. They changed that after the pedophile scandal in the 2000s.

Unknown_00: Well, rightfully so.

0:48:53
Unknown_02: But having garbage rules like that is what leads to stuff like this. When you add or take away from God's Word, as the Catholic Church does, because they believe that their tradition overrides Scripture...

Unknown_02: You end up with situations like this.

Unknown_02: So I believe that you speak where the Bible speaks and you're silent where it's silent. But I understand how it can be.

Unknown_00: I just wanted to make the point that even in the best case scenario where you are following your virtues to the letter, you can have this very acidic lifestyle where you forego anything that might compromise you. But practically, you can't live like that. You have to do things that show your ass a little bit so that you can do things, you know?

0:49:29
Unknown_02: Well, you know, Romans 3 says, right, all men have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. And that's very true. All men have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. We're all sinners, and even people who have been Christians 40, 50 years. My grandfather had a terrible temper, and sometimes he would sin in his anger. And I brought that up in my one video with you there. I was speaking to you.

0:50:04
Unknown_02: We all sin. We all have our strokes. We all have our temptations. There's no way to live a perfect life. But it's that pursuit of perfection that is the ideal, that you will never reach, but you try. But I understand what you mean. And in Ecclesiastics, we read, there is a time and a season for all things under the sun. You know, there's there's things that, you know, there's always a time for it. There's college, there's high school, you know, for drinking or for drugs or for whatever. But by the time you're Ethan's Ralph Sage, drinking every day is no longer, you know, it's no longer the time or season for such behavior. And so it becomes time to put away childish things.

0:50:40
Unknown_02: Right. But it's just there. All things are lawful, really, for a Christian to do. But not all things are helpful for you as a Christian to do. They're not expedient for you to do. They won't lead you to a better life. You know, the Lord can forgive just about any sin. know but you need to be able to be self enough to seek forgiveness realize you're not perfect and move on but in that in that allegory then what is what is my finding jesus what is my seeking repentance for what i've done i don't feel like i've done anything wrong well in terms of what in terms of new project two

0:51:26
Unknown_02: Well, only you know what you've done. I don't know what you've done, right? I only speculate on what you've done.

Unknown_00: Father PPP, it has been 20 years since my last confession. I must tell you that I accept money from a Jewish Mexican man in his New Project 2 WordPress blog. We have to remember, number one, I don't accept a title like father or pastor or anything like that.

Unknown_02: Those titles are unscriptural. Jesus says, call no man your father. And so if you accept a title like that...

Unknown_02: you're elevating yourself above others. And that's what the Catholic Church is about, is about having a clergy class and a laity class. That's not what I believe in. I believe in all Christians are equal. There are roles within churches. There are deacons. There are elders. There are preachers. But a title like Father, a title that there's no authority for in the Bible, I don't believe in. And also, you don't confess your sins to any man. A man can't forgive your sins. I can't forgive your sins, Josh. Only God can forgive your sins. You know, like the wrestling film, Only God Forgives. But the problem is that there is a public inquiry, which you are very much the head of.

0:52:36
Unknown_00: Not Jesse, you.

Unknown_00: Oh, no, no, he's the puppet master.

Unknown_02: It's Kraut. It's Kraut that's doing it all.

Unknown_00: Well, what do Kraut and Jesse, what do they expect? Okay, this is my thing. I've said that you've argued in bad faith before. What I mean is that, for instance, a long time ago, we had a guy called Jace Connors, and I did a stream on him. He's very funny. His whole shit was very funny. But there came a time where people started to believe that he was an act. And people found this actor from MDE called Jan Rankowski, who looked a lot like Jason in his MDE skits. He usually brings up the same kind of things that Jace talks about, like military stuff. And as people started to bring this forward to me, I was very reluctant to believe that it was all a ruse, right? And I said, look, look, I can believe that MDE and Jace talk about the same things and they look alike. What you have to find for me to believe you that this is the same person is you have to find me something that proves that Jace Connors owns something of Jan Renkowski's. Because if that happens, then I know for sure that it is the same person. Because that's not a coincidence anymore. And they did find that Jace had the Steam account of Jan Renkowski that he advertised on his MDE profile. So it was definitely the same person, and I couldn't deny it anymore. So if the question is, is there collusion? Are you influenced in a way that causes you to act contrary to your principles? My question would then be, in good faith, what could possibly be done to demonstrate that that is not the case?

0:53:50
Unknown_02: Well, it's not my job to try and tell you what you have to do or what you should do. And I can't do so because if I do so, you'll do the opposite of whatever I encourage you to do or say that you need to do to repent. And it's just it's first of all, it's not my place anyway to tell you that. Right. But honestly, there are steps that you could take to be a little bit more transparent with this stuff.

0:54:25
Unknown_02: In terms of not inserting yourself into the guy's thread, not locking the fucking thread, not creating these fucking trash fire thread and all this other fucking shit. Do you know what I mean? The trash fire thread, I still don't... Because that would have been 500 pages in the dick thread.

Unknown_00: And 500 pages in the dick thread is no more helpful to...

0:55:00
Unknown_00: finding out who Dax Herrera really is any more so than it is in its own thread. It just keeps the dick thread cleaner. It's actually a service to anyone trying to find information about him.

Unknown_02: I don't know if that's necessarily true, because in a few years time, I mean, you know, people aren't going to know.

Unknown_00: In a few years time, nobody's going to be thinking about this at all. Let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Unknown_02: Who knows? Who knows, really? I mean, I just don't know how deep the rabbit hole goes, Josh. I really don't know. You know, I just, what I saw happen was that Dick got made fun of because of these texts by Jesse. And, you know, a whole bunch of people that are affiliated with New Project 2 came in on Twitter to run defense force ops for Dick and say how much of a chad he was.

0:55:40
Unknown_00: And all that shit's gay as fuck. I'm not going to defend a 40-year-old man that motherfucking can defend himself. At this point in his life, he should be in a position of unassailable authority regarding his own life. You know what I mean?

Unknown_02: But this is what's fucked up, is you did defend him and his mansion and all this fucking shit and his thread.

Unknown_00: I just disagree. I just disagree with the appraisal of a house with a market value of a million dollars. I think a million dollars is a million dollars, and it doesn't matter if it's an apartment in New York City or if it's an actual rural estate in Wyoming for 50 hectares or whatever. It is if the asset is highly overvalued.

0:56:22
Unknown_02: If it's not actually what it's worth and the real estate market is overinflated like it is in Los Angeles,

Unknown_00: Yeah, and he should get the fuck out. And if it happens where the market crashes and he's holding bags, go ahead and make fun of him for it.

Unknown_02: But do you know what I mean? It's obviously not a mansion. In Vancouver, in Los Angeles, in New York City, these places aren't mansions that are valued at a million dollars. They're starter homes.

Unknown_00: I concede. I formally concede that it is not a mansion.

0:56:54
Unknown_00: At the time, though, I thought that the market value was what determined mansionhood. I was uninformed on the mansion question, but I have since been enlightened very thoroughly. It literally is not playing defense for Dick.

Unknown_02: But if we're crucifying the men on Twitter who called Dax a chad and defended the 40-year-old man who should be able to defend himself, you yourself are guilty of the same behavior because you jumped into his thread.

Unknown_00: I never defended Dick. I just think that it's unfair to try and fault him for having a highly valued estate.

Unknown_02: For you to say you've never defended Dick, I mean, that's what you're doing right now. In what way?

0:57:30
Unknown_00: By saying that he's not extorting? I'm not defending him by saying... You're questioning me. You're saying that I'm being extorted into a position where I'm being nicer to him. That's not a question about me. I'm not defending him. I'm defending myself.

Unknown_02: I don't know, man. It seems like with this whole mansion thing, with locking the thread... I just don't understand why there was so much hands-on involvement on something.

Unknown_00: Because I was directly tagged into the thread. It was brought to my attention, so I dealt with it personally. If people don't want my involvement on something, don't tag me into it.

0:58:03
Unknown_02: Well, I just don't know, man. You, at the end of the day, are responsible for your own actions. It's not that, you know, by tagging you into that, you're then forced to make posts defending whether or not it's a mansion and then getting upset about it and locking the thread. Now, you said you didn't get upset about it.

Unknown_00: out of nowhere and started bringing up this random shit that the Jesse guy from pod. That's the main thing. When Jesse starts pushing something really hard and the thread starts getting all this traction again from brand new accounts, it's like, okay, this is fucking gay. I don't want to deal with it.

0:58:41
Unknown_02: I think we can kind of understand, I think the audience can, why at least what your official explanation is, is what it is. I just think that even your official explanation is providing more questions than it does answers.

Unknown_00: In what way?

Unknown_02: Because, and it's just causing even more fuel to go on to the fire of it. And I'm just not sure what the way is to totally clear it because okay sure you could release your dms with dick i don't think you're gonna do that you know i don't think that's gonna happen and the main reason why besides obviously not wanting to make yourself a person that people can't trust to talk to is a lot of what we talk about is like strictly business like i'm asking him about payment processors or about this service that he uses to like yeah that's that's the info that people want to know is the business and

0:59:38
Unknown_00: It's basically like, what bank do you use? Can you get me in touch with this guy? Can you hook me up with this? What gateway are you using for this? I'm doing the merch run. What do you use for this? You know, that kind of stuff. It's not... He has never...

Unknown_00: I will say this. I have never, ever, ever received money from Dax Herrera. I have never received money from him.

Unknown_00: The money I've received has been from the New Project 2. I pay him for New Project 2. I pay him 3% of what I make. I think to say that is a bit asinine, right?

Unknown_02: Because the money comes from Dick's bank account.

1:00:12
Unknown_00: No, it does not. It comes from the New Project 2 bank account. Legally, he cannot withdraw that money willy-nilly. It's not his money to take. It's the corporate income. But without Dick's bank, right?

Unknown_02: So when Chase Bank went down and deplatformed him, New Project 2 didn't work, right?

Unknown_02: So without Dax's bank, there is no new project.

Unknown_00: That was the new Project 2 bank account. That's why that went down. He had not used it for anything else besides New Project 2. Right. That's why it was weird. It's Dax's bank.

Unknown_02: It's Dax's bank. You know that. It's Dax's bank. At the end of the day, if Dax doesn't want you to be paid, you're not going to be paid. It's not his money. It's your support money.

1:00:46
Unknown_00: He's the owner of the company. He can make that decision.

Unknown_02: And that's what I'm saying is the problem is that when you have somebody who's so invested in the scene as Dax, who has personal vendettas and grudges, who if he decides he doesn't like you and he's going to bury you, he can kick you off. It's not a real alternative. And what it seems to be instead is some sort of cabal where you do favors for him.

Unknown_00: I would agree with you more if it were anything else besides money. Because in the United States, all banking is governed by a very small part of the USA Patriot Act passed in 2001.

1:01:24
Unknown_00: It was passed like two months after 9-11. And it gave, it basically, what it does is it deputizes all the banking institutions in the United States to watch out for terrorism and fraud and stuff on behalf of the government. And if the banks don't take appropriate actions to stop fraud on behalf of the government, then they become liable. It's like an inverse of 230 for the CDA.

Unknown_02: So this is what concerns me too, is Chase and Discover and Bank of America all drop dick. which normally if a bank drops you, you think it's because of fraud. That's the first thing you think, right? The person was fraudulent?

1:01:57
Unknown_00: No, no, no, no, no. Don't think that. They will drop you for any reason or no reason at all. If they have any suspicion, if they don't like you, if you end up on a hate list, if someone at the SPLC asks for it, if anything happens whatsoever, you are off and you have no recourse because they're private banks. You don't have any say in it whatsoever. There's no federal version. There's no public option when it comes to the payment networks. You're just fucked. And that's why he has to be particular. He does have to sort through it, because he's staking his reputation on it.

1:02:30
Unknown_02: With how much bullshit that's fucking surrounding all this shit, I mean, you really don't have an alternative then to New Project 2.

Unknown_00: I could try. Like I said, I contacted Subscribestar. I have had success in getting onboarded with payment processors. The problem is keeping them.

Unknown_02: Let's say you get the call tomorrow. Dak says, you're done, Josh. I've got an order that they're going to drop everybody's payments unless I drop you. I'm going to drop you, Josh.

Unknown_00: It doesn't even have anything to do with your janitorial work.

1:03:06
Unknown_02: What are you going to do the next day? How are you going to survive, man?

Unknown_00: The same way that I did for the years when I didn't have New Project. New Project 2, I got on like last year.

Unknown_00: I made money before then. I did contracts. It was rough. You know, you have to pull extra to do it.

Unknown_00: I got lucky with Bitcoin. I got lucky with getting a couple gigs and stuff. I got people sent donations in via crypto. But the site managed.

Unknown_02: I mean, isn't it better, though? Like, if you were able to survive that way and stand on your own.

1:03:38
Unknown_00: Of course it's better. Otherwise, I wouldn't bother. Yeah.

Unknown_02: I mean, if it's better for you to stand on your own and not have Dax Herrera because him being an active influencer... in this scene, interacting with people in a political way, having feuds with people in this scene, I mean, it causes a conflict of interest, and I just, I think that you would want to get away from it.

Unknown_00: It does not cause a conflict of interest, because I have not, if he tried to threaten me into doing something, it would be worth more money than what he gives me. You've got to remember that it's never a threat, right?

1:04:13
Unknown_02: I hate to reference this. When Gonzalo Lira made his video, how blackmail works and how it's done. And we all can imagine that coach knows how that works.

Unknown_02: He says, it's never an outright threat. It's just, it's an implication that if you do this for me, things will be good for you. You won't have to worry. You just do me this favor.

Unknown_00: He tried that a bunch of times. Coach did coach always kind of hinted. Oh, you know, we'd love to do this someday. You know, I can do this for you, but you know, I'd love to do this too. And I just like, ah, Nah.

1:04:45
Unknown_02: So you can see how people would think that there's an implied blackmail from Dax.

Unknown_00: I've dealt with Coach. I know how Coach operated and how he asked for favors. We had a boys talk once about how people doing favors for each other is natural. Kind of like the priest talking about touching boys. It's natural. Everyone touches. It's natural. It's good. It's natural.

Unknown_00: So I know what that is like. That'll be clipped out of contact. Yeah.

1:05:16
Unknown_00: So I know what that's like. I know how people, you know, I've been to Ukraine. I've been to the Philippines. I know what people do when they want something, you know, when they are hinting that they want bribes solicited from you.

Unknown_00: I've never, ever, ever,

Unknown_00: way talking to that to dick or dax you know i don't even know what to call him you know because for most most of my life i've known him as dick masterson um that i knew of him i really only knew about him maybe

Unknown_02: Three years ago, I saw the Dr. Phil bit and I thought it was pretty good because, you know, I do a lot of IRL trolling like that. And I think it's great. I think it's hilarious to do that. And so I like that bit. But everything else I've ever seen from him hasn't quite been on that same level. But I've never really listened to a full episode of The Dick Show or anything like this.

1:05:54
Unknown_02: But at this point, it's like, okay, I'm going to call him Dax Herrera because that's his real name. And I can't believe his real name is Dax.

Unknown_00: Yeah, his real name sounds faker than his fake name.

Unknown_02: Yes, yes.

Unknown_02: I don't know what to say. You know what I mean? Fuck, fuck. But do you know anything about this? So yesterday, I learned that... So when all the banks dropped him, he went with this Chinese bank in Chinatown.

1:06:27
Unknown_02: Do you know which bank that is? Or, like, what's going on with that?

Unknown_00: I do know the bank. I do know the processor. And, I mean, I don't know if he's just spinning a story or what, but the guy I talked to was white.

Unknown_02: So it's not Cafe Bank.

Unknown_00: No, I'm pretty sure it's not like a triad bank. I mean, don't get me wrong, I would bank with a triad bank. You know, I might kiss the ring and take out someone for the Don, Don Corleone. Josh, you're not helping your case here, Josh.

1:06:59
Unknown_00: Look, there's a difference between helping Don Corleone and compromising my web zone. Now, if Don Corleone tried to give me an offer I couldn't refuse regarding my website, I might have to take the bullet. I might have to take the owl. I might have to bury a horse head in the backyard. But, you know, if it's just taking out the trash, the garbage, maybe Don Corleone could get that. I'm just saying. Wait a minute.

Unknown_02: Why?

1:07:38
Unknown_02: Josh, what? Is this like your confession? You're like, look, I wouldn't kill anybody to keep the lights on, but I should clean it up now.

Unknown_00: No, no, no, no. The other way around. Other way around. Don't misconstrue what I've said. I said I'd kill someone, but I won't sweep it up. It's the opposite. It's the inverse.

Unknown_02: What? I don't know, man. You said you were going to take out the garbage? You know, like, I don't know, janitors do that.

Unknown_00: I don't know, man. You might have to bury someone in the cornfields. It's just business. It's nothing personal.

1:08:09
Unknown_02: This is a pretty confusing defense here. I don't know. But, like, I don't know, man. Like, what bothers me is, like, with this whole New Project 2 thing, you see people, like...

Unknown_02: Who are normally like enemies, like were enemies before it, are now like friends and like on the same side defending Dick. Toad McKinley, if you remember, Ralph had that drunken rant about how a low-cow scholar and a certain toad steward.

Unknown_02: I don't know if you've ever heard that rant, but now Toad McKinley and Ralph are on the same team licking Dax's balls as a chat.

1:08:45
Unknown_00: I think the alliances are a huge part of it. I mentioned this in one of my streams right before I did the corn thing. I think the main reason why people are so rowdy and ready for something to break down is just because they're so bored of the friendliness. You know what I mean? It's just everyone's so friendly now. There's a level of stability. People are bored with it.

Unknown_02: Well, it is fucking boring. Nobody's entertained by any of this shit. You have a bunch of guys who are all circle jerking, sucking each other's fucking cock.

Unknown_00: Yeah. And you know what? I take a level of personal responsibility for this because I think the moment where things began to be undone is very specifically when I got fucked up on Serbian sink vodka and got on the Ralph Retort during the Killstream Hall of Fame thing with Dick. Did you listen to that?

1:09:19
Unknown_02: I think that was when Dick did his, like, his, like, roast, and he did, like, the speech where, like, his jokes weren't landing or something.

Unknown_00: Yeah, and I made fun of him for half an hour straight while totally pissed.

Unknown_02: Yeah.

Unknown_00: Yeah, I think that was the beginning of the end.

Unknown_02: I want to get into this with you, because this week something happened where it kind of changed my view of things. And that was when you went on the Dick show with Ralph. And I just... Godwinson's take on it was that This was you being called into your boss's office for a disciplinary? To be told, like, these two employees need to stop fighting?

1:10:09
Unknown_00: He never contacted me about that. I went on because Ralph invited me.

Unknown_02: Ralph invited you on, okay. But it felt like, to him anyway, you two come on there. And, like, it's like a punishment. Like, Ralph is, like, your punishment for not cleaning it up well enough. And he's yelling at you and telling you you're going to be sacrificed. And, like, when the battle is going back and forth about who's about to be sacrificed, it feels like, well, which capo is going to be whacked for Dax's fucking dirty laundry not being cleaned? Yeah. You know, that's what it felt like. And you're sitting there watching Dax, like, try and be like, I didn't know it was this serious. Can't you guys just make up?

1:10:49
Unknown_00: One of the men, a man you know and trust implicitly, will invite you onto the dick show. He's the traitor. Take him out. Feed him to the corn.

Unknown_00: I mean, I felt afterwards... I have very mixed feelings about that.

Unknown_00: About the whole showing. Because...

1:11:19
Unknown_00: Like, it's an overwhelming sense of apathy meeting with, like, a lot of things that feel very pointed. It's extremely hard to explain. Because on one hand, it's just like, yeah, whatever.

Unknown_00: But on the other hand, it's like, everyone there was kind of a dick.

Unknown_00: Yeah. So it's... It just, it felt like, to me, like, it was some sort of, like...

Unknown_02: weird like fucking like either ambush or like some sort of weird like dax like saying like you guys need to make up like we're all in this new project to family together and you guys need to stop fighting because it's bad for fucking business because it obviously is it's obviously bad for business to have you guys i i do agree with that i do agree not even us fighting who gives a fuck uh that's good for his show if anything um i think that his reactions on twitter directly impact me and i i really i really don't appreciate the back and forth yeah so this is what's fucked up you know like i was gonna mention that before we even got into that but the conversation kind of naturally flowed just right into that segment i mean what the fuck is dick doing Like, Kiwi Farms 101 and Trolling 101, don't feed the trolls. It's like rule one, don't feed, you know?

1:12:02
Unknown_00: And he's doing it. And you're telling him not to. Yeah, very specifically don't. Because, you know, you'll think, oh, it's funny because they can't do anything. Ha ha, it's just like a bunch of people mad on the internet for him. And it's true. That's all true. The problem is, if you go in front of thousands of people and you say, I am God, you cannot touch me. a lot of those people are going to try and dick does have things that can be that can be sabotaged for him and it's like i don't know why you're inviting people to come with you because they will come with you if you continue to antagonize them and if that happens i can't help so and even beyond that it's um antagonizing people on my site uh kind of with me directly and it's like just stop well because even if you find it funny even if even if it was an objective win for you Like, this is all a direct result of me knowing Dick and Dick having these weird Twitter feuds. And it's like, just stop.

1:13:23
Unknown_02: But he won't stop. He won't stop. And, like, to me, every single one of those tweets is like a bit of pressure, like a bit of implied pressure. Like, why is this not taking care of Josh?

Unknown_00: No, I disagree. That's the intent. It's not working at all. I'm not feeling that. The pressure that I'm feeling is from other people on the forum who I'm more accountable to because they're my fucking users.

Unknown_02: Well, it's a question of who's your real master. Is it Dax Herrera who tweets at you to remove this shit? Who's tweeting basically implied suggestions? Oh, yeah, to look and... I mean, I did.

1:14:01
Unknown_00: Or is it the users who fucking pay you for real every month and they'll follow you to any process? The users, obviously. I'm glad you brought that up because the money comes from people. It doesn't come from dick.

Unknown_02: Exactly. This is what I'm saying. And that's why I'm fucking worried that because dick facilitates the transaction you're losing sight of the fact that Your money doesn't actually come from dick your money comes from the users and Ralph your tweets out like the live chats Please stop dunking on kiwi farms.

Unknown_00: He's not dunking on kiwi farms. I I'm telling you. He's self-owning. He's putting a shotgun in his mouth and pulling the trigger. It really speaks to the fact that after I left that episode, DigiEve, or whatever the fuck his name is now, gets on and is like, yeah, dude, it's great to be a tranny and argue ad nauseum with these fucking people. It's great. It works out well. It improves your life.

1:14:35
Unknown_00: no it doesn't don't take advice from this fucking retard dick what are you doing uh he wants to he wants to fucking chemically castrate himself he's not the person to take life advice from i'm telling you and neither is ralph don't take life advice from ralph regarding how to deal with the forum his threads fucking 1200 pages but what you honestly do have to be worried about buddy is that even if even if it's like okay you're totally innocent you have no collusion with this guy

1:15:22
Unknown_02: It might honestly be that he expects you to fucking clean it up. Because think of it. Who is more... Who is a bigger... How do I phrase this? Who is a bigger albatross for New Project 2? Would it be you or Milo? Who do you think that the authorities hate more?

Unknown_00: Honestly, probably Milo. Because I think Milo might actually be on list for credit processors.

Unknown_00: I don't know. He's a public figure, man. He's out there.

Unknown_02: Yeah. I just think you guys are... It's pretty close. It's pretty close. And I just think that the biggest difference between you and Milo is that Milo doesn't have anything he can offer Dick. Whereas you have the Kiwi Farms.

1:16:00
Unknown_02: that Dick feels like he can get influence over by extending services to you. Because that gives him power. If he feels like he has authority over the guy who mastered the virus, so to speak, of internet bloodsport, then... Okay, let me just say that if that is his gambit, if that's actually what he entered into, and he entered into this with a completely bad faith perspective about one day having power to influence the site, then he's an idiot.

1:16:33
Unknown_00: He's fucking retarded. If that's actually... I don't think it is, but if that's actually true, then that's absolutely fucking retarded. Because look at how... Look at what happened with the Ralph thread. With Dispatch. The Snake Dispatch. Somehow, 100 posts disappear. And I got this fucking... This genius over here putting together archives saying, like, look, the post count went down. 100 posts are gone from this 1,200 page thread.

Unknown_00: then clearly why are you cleaning up for for for the gun josh why are you cleaning up for the gun so i look into it like that's the level of scrutiny that exists everywhere and i look into and of course his dispatcher's friend who deleted all his posts and he probably knew about that and tried to fucking frame it as i deleted posts but yeah see i heard from fucking leo the pirate about that or something and like i don't know what the fuck to think about that all i know is like somebody told

1:17:23
Unknown_02: me that posts from the stream me era had disappeared from the website. And so that was, like, to me, like, oh, well, is it trying to cover up for killing Stream Me because he's new Project 2 buddies? But I have no fucking clue what went on with Dispatch and shit.

Unknown_00: Dispatch's friend, Kowalski, deleted all his posts in 2019. And I guess Kowalski said, hey, by the way, I deleted 165 of my posts in the Ethan Ralph thread, like, a year ago. You could bring up the fact that 100 posts are missing and try to get Josh for cleaning up the Ralph thread. And then he does it, and it's a complete failure, and he looks like a retard.

1:17:59
Unknown_02: Well, I've never been a big dispatch guy myself.

Unknown_00: I'm not saying that you are. I'm just saying that the level of scrutiny that exists and the level of archiving, like if you go to archive.is and type in kiwifarms.net forward slash asterisk, you'll get like thousands of different archives on the thread. It's not possible for me to do what is being implied. Well, the janitorial duties, like if you do do anything, any janiting, it gets caught.

Unknown_02: Like you can't get away with it.

Unknown_02: It's just a question of people are wondering, well, you know, you were kind of hinting towards deleting the Internet famous section and you post in my thread the other day like you were fed up with it and shit like this. And people think that because of what I mentioned before, because it is it is not people trying to have fun.

1:18:40
Unknown_00: It is people who are very maligned against each other. And who are just trying to break down these, these random, like, and whatever comedy there is, is buried under like, like hatred and genuine, like this, this sense of righteous indignation over internet shit. And it's like, that's, it's not funny. And if it's hurting other areas of the site, it would be worth deleting.

Unknown_02: It just seems to me that,

Unknown_02: That all seems like a very convenient excuse to clean it up. Because if you do that, Ethan Ralph's thread's gone. My thread's gone.

1:19:23
Unknown_00: Oh, I would obviously move out some threads. I promise you that if I delete the Internet Famous board, I'll move Ralph's out. Just between you and me.

Unknown_02: Well, that's what I knew would happen. What my prediction was, Internet Famous is going to be deleted, and mine and Ethan's will be moved.

Unknown_02: And what will happen is... I mean, probably not yours.

Unknown_00: I'm thinking like Boogie. I'd probably move Jim back to multimedia, the dick show back to multimedia. Yeah.

Unknown_02: Because what I thought would happen, to be perfectly honest with you, and I don't know if this will happen from this point on, because I think we're getting along well, but I think what was going to happen was you're going to fucking delete Internet Famous, move me and Ralph into Lowell Cow, and try and pin the deletion of Internet Famous on me for brigading the site and acting in bad faith.

1:20:13
Unknown_00: No, that's stupid and gay and convoluted. You have to remember that I'm like a retard. I don't think anything out beyond one step.

Unknown_02: I don't know if you're helping your case here. I mean, you might be helping your case that, like, you're ignorant of Masterson's grand conspiracy, you know, by saying shit like this.

Unknown_00: I'm just saying that if I deleted the Internet Famous Board, it wouldn't be some well-thought-out grand orchestra campaign into Persia. It would just be like, yeah, fuck this. I'm flushing the toilet. You've got the advisors, bro.

1:20:46
Unknown_02: You have the grand viziers. No, I don't. Who give you counsel.

Unknown_00: Oh, no, I don't. I don't talk to the admins before I do crazy shit. I just do it. I don't know. You watch Game of Thrones, my friend? No, I'm not gay.

Unknown_02: Oh, okay. I thought you would react to my Varys reference because Varys is, he's the master of whispers. He has all the spies and all the gossip in the kingdom. And he's also like a eunuch. His penis doesn't work and he's kind of fat. So, you know, I figured, shit, that fits Josh to a T. And he's, you know, he always appears like he's not really like a real player, you know, but he actually is. And he's got all these chess moves that are way ahead of time. You know, that's what I was assuming that Joshua Moon was. But now we just learned that he's an incompetent buffoon one step ahead of the law in Serbia, I guess. I don't know.

1:21:21
Unknown_00: Shit.

Unknown_00: I mean, I guess. I don't really have a grand plan. I just try to have fun on the internet. And when things stop being fun, I have to figure out where the problem is, and then I fix the problem. The other thing, yeah, one thing that we do have to cover, because it just did happen recently,

Unknown_02: What's going on with this George Azulius guy? What the fuck's going on with George?

1:21:56
Unknown_00: Oh, supposedly. Okay, for instance, when Ralph came on and said, perspiricity is PPP, obvious, he's a celeb, sock account. I looked at it and said, no, it's not. Dick said that this George Cogzunian guy is Ben. And I looked at it, and I was hoping to look at it and go, no, so shut up. Stop arguing with the forum.

Unknown_00: But everything I see indicates that, yes, it is actually him.

Unknown_02: My issue is it looks as though you've been instructed by Dick to dox Ben.

1:22:30
Unknown_00: No, but if this guy is some kind of like Z-list-y celeb, trying to use my site as like an axe, you know, to carry out a vendetta, yeah, fuck him.

Unknown_02: I just don't see why that matters, because there are a lot of other threads with a lot of other probably Z-celebs under sock puppet accounts with axes to grind.

Unknown_00: Oh, I try to root them out. If someone joins the forum to talk and relay information on behalf of themselves, I like to verify them, like I did with Brian.

Unknown_02: I just don't know. It's like there's a lot of a logs, right? There are a lot of a logs on Kiwi farms people who their sole purpose in life is just to fuck with another guy, you know, like in the DSP threat. I'm sure there are people like that.

1:23:11
Unknown_00: Yes, you know what I mean?

Unknown_02: And so like for me, it's like it's almost like a question of selective enforcement where it's like, I mean, there's like 15 moderators and 45,000 users and you do what you can and

Unknown_00: With DSP, I'll give you a great instance since you brought DSP up. When you had those people who joined and they were the Dutch people and they were like, oh, I'm a Dutch prostitute and I followed Dark Side Phil. He gives me all this money. He owes me this money. He's going to pay what he owes.

Unknown_00: That was funny. And we promoted it as content. And then we found out that that wasn't true. And then we completely fucked those people. We found out who they were. We found out where they lived. We translated that post into Dutch, specifically to fuck with them where they live, because they lived in the Netherlands. It's like, you know, thanks for the laughs, but you're still fucked up by trying to abuse my site as a mechanism to make money for yourself. Like, the post that really concerned me was when you're like, does anybody know George's address or state or something?

1:23:42
Unknown_02: What did you say?

Unknown_00: I asked for his state and last name. I was going to try and cross-reference something.

Unknown_02: You know, but it's almost like you're passing responsibility for his doxing onto your own community.

1:24:19
Unknown_00: Oh, no, I don't know it. I never found it out. I've not looked into it. But everything that I've seen indicates that it's probably this Ben guy.

Unknown_02: Yeah.

Unknown_00: And now Ben is passing around funny videos of him trying to make fun of me. It's like, OK, I guess I hit a nerve.

Unknown_02: It's just you don't see right how that doing that. gives the impression that you're cleaning it up for Dax. Like you're going after one of his detractors to figure out his docs.

Unknown_00: People believe what they want to believe. I've learned this over the long run. People always believe what they want to believe. And you can't convince them otherwise unless they're actually curious.

1:24:51
Unknown_02: I know, Josh. It's just... Like, it's not just the one instance. If it was just any one of these things, if it was just that you had $1,800 from Dick, okay. If it was just you had locked the DAX threat, okay. If it was just you had locked the simpiracy threat, okay. If it was just that you had asked for the docs of George to verify that he was Ben, okay. But it's all of these things, all in a row. that caused me to say, shit, this isn't just a Schizo X-Files post that I came up with while I was high. There might actually be something here.

1:25:25
Unknown_00: It's been going on for over a month. It's the single largest event on the site. Like, yeah, I'm going to be involved to some degree. It's unavoidable. And when I don't talk about it, since you brought that up, when I don't talk about it, I'm also complicit. If I do things, if I get involved, I try to see who's throwing what shit, then I'm defending Dick and I'm way too involved. I usually don't get this involved. If I don't get involved and I ignore it like I did originally, why is he covering this up for? He's not talking about it. He'd be talking about this if it was Monday, Matt. He really is sweeping it up. And it's like, okay, I can't win either way. So I might as well just do what I want and perspectives be damned. Fuck your optics.

1:25:57
Unknown_02: Well, I think ultimately, I mean, you're going to double down with Doc no matter what and stay with him.

Unknown_02: And I just I mean I did say that I was looking into subscribe star because I mean I I'm a I I may not be the greatest busy are whatever the fuck but I noticed trends and I don't want to hitch my everything that I have to one person Nothing I've hitched everything to him.

1:26:30
Unknown_00: It's not my quest to fuck you It's not my quest to fuck you out of $1,800 a month and make you destitute and they got her.

Unknown_02: I That's not what I want. I just want it to be clear that there's no collusion between you and Dax Herrera. And the easiest way to do that is to find you an alternative where you can make the same money or better, where a third of your transactions aren't fucking bouncing every month.

Unknown_00: They're bouncing because of the payee. That's not his fault. It's bouncing because it's a card that doesn't have money.

Unknown_02: Yeah, I mean, but ultimately, it should be cleaned up. The functionality should be added. And I understand that that's a somewhat advanced functionality.

1:27:07
Unknown_00: I can't say for sure if Subscribestar even has that.

Unknown_02: I don't know what to say. I don't know myself either. I just think that that's something that would make sense for it to have. And I'm just saying that the only reason I bring that up is because I believe it shows it's not as serious. alternative that could actually out-compete patreon and actually be a viable alternative patreon just like you know 9chan has no hope of ever taking over 4chan 1776 hosting has no hope of ever becoming the largest vps provider it's not about becoming you know true competition it's about having a place for people who aren't welcome on the alternatives But it's not even really about that. It's about a place to have people who Dick likes who have been removed from other platforms. So there's not even really like a true moral high ground to it. Do you know what I mean? Milo's not allowed. Randvot's not allowed.

1:27:53
Unknown_00: A lot of that is... I would chalk up to the law because of the U.S. Patriot Act. You have to understand that a lot of the people Patreon gets rid of, people falsely assume that Patreon is directly responsible for deplatforming a lot of people. And I'm sure they are. But Patreon uses something called Stripe. And Stripe is a payment processor slash gateway. And even Stripe, even though it is a massive financial banking institution that handles billions of dollars a year, right? Even they're accountable to all their payment networks, which includes Diners Club and Visa and MasterCard. And they're accountable to the Federal Reserve and they're accountable to the USA Patriot Act and the anti-fraud provisions of that. And MasterCard has rules baked into it where if you're on the ADL hate list, you can't be on their networks. And if you can't be on MasterCard's network, then Stripe has to drop you because of VisaCard's network. So you're completely fucked.

1:29:01
Unknown_02: Honestly, I believe that your smartest move, and I know you won't listen, but I think your smartest move is to pull out of all this fucking shit. Is to pull out any association with Dax, with Ethan Ralph, with me, with any of these fucking internet famous people.

Unknown_00: With all of it. Cut all fucking ties. And just fucking move on.

Unknown_02: Just move on as your own fucking entity. Because every time you get tied in with these guys, you're being asked to defend every action that they do. You're being questioned about them.

Unknown_00: There's questions about your intentions. That's gain of itself. Because it's like when people go to your parents and ask them to explain what you're doing. I'm not responsible for Dick. I'm not responsible for Ralph. I'm not responsible for Nick.

1:29:40
Unknown_00: I'm going to limit my presence because I'm in a position in my life right now where I need to.

Unknown_00: uh but but yeah i'm i'm gonna look into subscribe star and i'm gonna probably make my own site for men at the internet at some point because i need to have my own video archives and stuff like yeah i have to do something i would just i would just encourage you to do that because the more that you're self-sufficient and i know with you it's entirely possible because you're getting screwed but the more self-sufficient you are the more so you can just tell the whole world to kiss your fucking ass which is your mentality anyway to tell the world to kiss your ass

1:30:21
Unknown_02: So for me, it doesn't make sense to have Joshua Moon as his own man and strong in his beliefs. I'm not going to give up a significant chunk of my income before I have an alternative set up.

Unknown_02: Well, I'm not even asking you to do that.

Unknown_00: You just cut all ties with them.

Unknown_02: Well, eventually you really should. You really should. Because the fucking guy is hammering out on Twitter about how your website is fucking spreading misinformation and lies.

Unknown_00: I agree with that. I don't like that, but I'm going to handle that on my own. Like outside pressure is not going to get me to do that. That's what I'm saying.

Unknown_02: And that's why when you ask, like, what do I suggest you do? you know like i have no suggestions for you because you're gonna just say fuck you so that's why i didn't even bother initially because now it's been like the suggestion is to get rid of new projects you know it's like i'm not gonna it's like uh when you hop jobs don't quit your job before you have a second job lined up don't quit a money source before you have an option to re-enable it somewhere else i mean do you think that you're really allowed to quit new project too do you think i do i think i can close my account absolutely i can You think you can't? I just don't know. I think that if close your account, Project 2, ever, then the implication is that you're a traitor to New Project 2.

1:30:59
Unknown_01: You're a traitor to DAX.

Unknown_02: You're a traitor to Ethan Ralph.

Unknown_02: Well, they're going to go after you and the accusations that you're a pedophile.

Unknown_00: Ralph called me a pedophile, child molester. What more could he possibly do? He's going to sit on his fucking ass during his streams and he's going to get drunk and he's going to, you know, throw curses and shit. And that's what he does every night. I don't think it'll just be Ethan Ralph.

1:31:57
Unknown_02: I think you'd be surprised what Ricada will have to say about you. What Dame Pesos will have to say about you. Whatever he says will be in Spanish.

Unknown_00: I won't have to care.

Unknown_02: I just think you'll be surprised.

Unknown_00: I disagree that Nick Riccato is going to take any sides. I think Nick is too smart for that. Notice he's not involved. He's managed somehow to stay out of it.

Unknown_00: As far as Ralph and Dame Pesos and shit, it's like, who cares?

Unknown_00: dick dick can say whatever he wants he might try to drag me in like when monkey and hysteria's had a falling out that he desperately tried to get them back on the show but you just ignore it you just say no i'm not interested i'm not interested in promoting your content at this time thank you undersigned joshua moon

1:32:42
Unknown_02: It's just getting to the point, Josh, where he's just putting public pressure on you now with the tweets. He's fucking calling you onto his show with Ethan Ralph. I know it was Ralph that called you on, but I mean, we can't really rule out the option that Dick instructed Ethan to call you out to bring you onto his show. I mean, I can't rule that fucking shit out, you know? And I just wonder how much longer you're going to put up with this fucking horse shit from these guys.

Unknown_00: Well, they're not the ones giving me problems. I mean, Dick is down because of his back and forth with the site, but that was a... I mean, that's something recent. That wasn't the start of this.

1:33:20
Unknown_02: Well, it's because now the chips are down, and he expects that his investment into Project 2 is going to pay off.

Unknown_02: That you're going to clean it up for him, that you're going to control the narrative.

Unknown_00: And he's an idiot because he's not invested anything into me. I've invested into him $45 a month. Where's that going to pay off? Well, it paid off in me being able to collect people's money. That's a business transaction. That's an arrangement. I don't know. That's not me coming to you on the day of your daughter's wedding and asking for a favor so that one day I will return the favor as a friend. It's a...

1:33:51
Unknown_00: I am giving you 3% of what I make.

Unknown_02: What the fuck else do you want? Well, you could say that not only are you being forced to kick a piece of the action to the godfather, but that you've already run favors and paid off his investment by locking the thread and by deleting people's posts in this conspiracy. And they might be about Voldemort or whatever the fuck.

Unknown_00: No, I run spam cleaners on people who join specifically to advertise a pedophile. Yes, I do that. I'm not apologetic about it.

Unknown_02: That's what those posts are.

1:34:24
Unknown_00: They are people who join specifically to advertise content that belongs to a pedophile outside of his thread. So I delete it.

Unknown_02: Here's one for you. No, here's just another one.

Unknown_02: What do you think about, because did you see the Rakeda, my interaction with Rakeda and Dick on the show?

Unknown_00: Yes.

Unknown_02: Did you see that Zoom had Dick Masterson's phone number?

Unknown_00: He had the phone number that is available on the contact page of new project too. Let's all do this together. Everyone in chat, go to new project to.com. Okay.

Unknown_00: Now, also pretend that you're an obese, psychotic pedophile. Put yourself in the right state of mind. And you want to get a phone number. So scroll all the way down. We're doing this together. If you have your browser up, go to newproject2.com. Scroll all the way down and go to company. And you will see on the right-hand side, there's a lot of things there. It can be very scary, very confusing. Don't worry. Don't worry, we're going to look together. See on the right-hand side, on the second column, New Project 2, but beneath that is support. And you will see a phone number. And that is the phone number that Corey Barnhill, pedophile and liar, used to contact Dick Masterson on that day. It is publicly available information.

1:35:35
Unknown_02: So his personal cell phone number is publicly available?

Unknown_00: That is a Google Voice number that forwards to his cell phone. Yes, it is.

Unknown_02: Okay.

Unknown_00: So here's what we're going to do together as friends. Pull out your cell phone and go to the text messaging app and go to 626-817-6752 and type in go fuck yourself dick and press the enter key. And I'm sure he will appreciate that.

Unknown_02: He'll get it. Okay. So at least we know where the phone number came, how we got it. Now, that's honestly the least of our concerns, though, really, because Dick says Zoom wants to come on. How does he know that Zoom wants to come on for one? Hello, my name is Zoom.

1:36:12
Unknown_00: I would like to come on.

Unknown_02: But it seems like they know who he is. And in fact, they do know who he is.

Unknown_00: Dick knew who he was from the IBS apocalypse.

Unknown_02: Yeah. So they know who he is. And I tell them, right? I tell them right away, I'm leaving if he comes on because he's a pedophile.

Unknown_01: Yes.

Unknown_02: And then, inexplicably, so there's no defensive ignorance, they then decide to bring this man on.

Unknown_00: no nick ricada said no you don't want that and dick seemed like oh this would be a great shit show let's do it he didn't realize that by doing this it would enable cory barnhill pedophile and liar to start falsely associating himself with new project too i told dick after this call i said look you did there is any involvement of this fucking guy with this project i am gone i am closing it right now i am not waiting for an alternative to set up not waiting for subscribe star to return my fucking email i will close it down And I want all the user data purged from the processor and stuff. And he said, no, it's only been me. From the very start, it has only been me. Corey Barnhill, Pedophile and Lyle, not his words, has had no involvement in New Project 2.

1:37:08
Unknown_02: This is just it really concerns me, man, because it just shows a huge error in judgment. You know, that was terrible.

Unknown_00: This man. Terrible. I told him I told him when he was talking about it because I was watching live. I said, don't let this motherfucker show. He will fuck. It doesn't. The association will fuck. You told him then you told him he did. I told him over signal. He didn't get signal messages.

1:37:42
Unknown_02: Oh, fuck. Because just to me, it fucking blew my mind when they brought him on after I left. It fucking blew my mind. I couldn't even fucking believe what I was seeing. Because I told them he was a pedophile. There's no way to defend ignorance, play ignorance on this. They're platforming a fucking pedophile.

Unknown_00: I don't think he knew all the details.

Unknown_00: But he found out.

Unknown_02: All I'm saying is you fucking are banning motherfuckers for even mentioning this guy's name because he's such a shit-stained piece of shit.

1:38:17
Unknown_00: It's that and the Twitter conversation. It's like, don't fuck around with this retard. His association is so toxic it will fucking kill you. Don't do it.

Unknown_02: But Doc's fucking platformed this fucking guy. Pulled him onto his fucking show intending... I think that Zoom would dox me or destroy me. And then the opposite happens, because it always does with Zoom.

Unknown_00: It's the classic trap. Corey comes up to you. Hey, buddy. Hey, buddy. I got some great information on this guy. I have real hard-hitting facts that I found all by myself by being a secret hacker. And then he gets on, and he just fucking shits all over the place like a monkey, just fucking flinging shit at everyone. And it brings everyone down. He does it over and over again. Ralph tried to do it with me. Ralph tried to do it with other people, too. It never works.

1:38:50
Unknown_02: Ralph tries to use this guy as an attack dog. It didn't work. His car got spray painted. It got fucked up.

Unknown_02: Now Dick is... I can only assume trying to use him as an attack dog. There's no other reason to bring him on.

Unknown_00: Yeah, he probably thought, oh, this guy from IBS Apocalypse has the dirt. And that's probably what he said. Zoom probably texted him and said, I have information that will lead to the arrest of PPP. And it was his last desperate card to play to try and avoid embarrassment from the fat, retarded, obese Canadian hackler who embarrassed him.

1:39:27
Unknown_02: And then after that, fuck, after Zoom came in, Gator came in with the fucking broom to clean it up. For fuck's sake. I couldn't even have scripted it any worse for him. If I fucking had written it ahead of time, what would I have done?

Unknown_00: Yeah, it was a bad move to let him onto the stream. I can't pretend from start to finish. Oh, here's an anonymous text from a guy that you vaguely know of who has information.

1:40:08
Unknown_00: And Nick's telling you, don't do it, and you'll do it anyways. And it's just like, yeah, that's fucking retarded. So how can we trust this man's judgment when he's bringing on Corey Barnhill, pedophile and liar?

Unknown_02: As his attack dog.

Unknown_00: Because the things that he's doing outside of that are legally protected requirements. If he fucked up any other way, if he fucked up in the way that you're indicating he might fuck up regarding judgment, that's his ass. That's everything that he's ever worked for gone instantly.

Unknown_02: Yeah. Well, not necessarily not necessarily I'll make sure it gets sweeped up Well, we'll see because I don't know what the fuck died. I mean zoom I hate to fucking say Voldemort's name motherfucker You know is tweeting that he has access to the back end that he helped fuck right the thing.

1:40:42
Unknown_00: Yeah. No, he's you know, but it's Because it now gives credibility to all of his fucking statements and

Unknown_00: Because that's how Corey works, is that he will take anything and then attach onto it a bigger lie. And then if you try to detangle that lie, which takes you 20 times as much effort than it took for him to create it, and then in the process of trying to debunk it, you have merely given it credibility where it was a complete fabrication to begin with. Even if the credibility is like...

1:41:23
Unknown_00: like nothing just a little bit like one person out of a thousand believes it that's one person out of a thousand who's going to tell other people and it's just that's just how we operate that's why the only what it introduces into anybody's mind is doubt in the platform it really does yeah that's the whole point that's what he's going for is that it's not it's not dick he doesn't give a fuck about dick it's it's undermining the platform that other people he doesn't like uses

Unknown_02: Well, it's probably just you that he's pissed off at.

1:41:56
Unknown_00: It might be Ralph. I mean, the guy really doesn't have a true moral standard or any actual position.

Unknown_02: He's just trying to cause as much chaos as possible. And so that... And I understand that he's a bad faith actor. He really fucking is. He's this chaotic evil cunt from Dungeons & Dragons. Like... He's fucking crazy as shit. But the problem is like when you know things about this guy and you then decide to platform him and present him as though he's your friend, then he shits all over you. And then he says that he was the one who fucking wrote the back end, wrote the site, then produces like lines of code or some shit. The average person, like, I look at that and I go, holy fuck.

1:42:33
Unknown_00: It's like with presenting the RSS feeds and saying that he hacked the platform. Like, that's just how it is. Yeah. Especially with tech stuff. He can lie about a lot more with tech stuff because the average person doesn't understand it. The average person doesn't understand what a fucking IP address is and how it's used. And, you know, why servers have to look at IP addresses. They don't get it. What a terrible fucking mistake for DAX to have made.

Unknown_02: Just fucking terrible.

Unknown_00: But I'm confident that he won't make similar mistakes again regarding him specifically. But I also don't believe that he would make mistakes regarding financial information. Because he, as an intermediary, is legally required not to. And he knows those requirements.

1:43:09
Unknown_02: I don't know, man. When I take a look at Dax, I'm fucking actually a little bit worried. The guy says he drinks every day before three in the afternoon. The motherfucker is trapped inside 24-7 now. Before, he was a millionaire. He could travel the world, do whatever he wanted at any given time. Now, he's trapped in a fucking cell.

Unknown_02: He's getting fucking pressure from Kiwi Farms about his fucking girlfriend being a cam horn. He's had some obese 400 pound Canadian heckler embarrass him.

1:43:46
Unknown_02: And like he's fucking spiraling about Kiwi farms and tweeting about it every day.

Unknown_00: To the point where I don't trust him to make logical decisions.

Unknown_02: I now believe that he is making decisions based on emotion and lashing out. And when you're dealing with a person like that, you can no longer trust them to make sound financial decisions, let alone any sort of fucking decisions. until the factors that are aggravating that behavior are removed.

Unknown_02: which this lockdown's not going away for a fucking long time, you know?

1:44:22
Unknown_00: I don't know. That's a bit of a stretch. Because the argument becomes he's angry on Twitter. He's angry at the Kiwi Farms. He had a bad stream and made mistakes that compromised the perceptions of the website. Therefore, it's reasonable to assume that he is in a state of mind that will allow him to leak customer information. I think that's too far detached.

Unknown_02: Give me one more piece of evidence to point out.

Unknown_02: The man was about to take LSD, right?

Unknown_00: 80s girl told him, no, you can't take LSD right now because of what's going on online.

1:44:56
Unknown_02: It's going to fuck with your headspace. You're going to have a bad trip.

Unknown_01: And he didn't take the LSD.

Unknown_02: That to me is proof that he is being emotionally affected by this because any other day he would drop the LSD. But that day he was worried that he would see my starfish and a black sun. extending out from my asshole that would mind rape him and trap him in a thought loop for all eternity. So that's, you know, I just think he's fucking, he's in a bit of a spiral, bro, because of that.

Unknown_00: Yeah, I think he needs time off. I think he needs to stop antagonizing people in the forum because it's not going to end well. He thinks it's funny right now because it's just like... But Josh, when you're telling him that, when you're telling him that, he has a similar mindset to you.

1:45:28
Unknown_02: He is now going to say Josh is my enemy because he's telling me to tweet, fuck you Josh, you traitor. I don't think that's true.

Unknown_00: I would expect that of Ralph. I wouldn't expect that of Dick.

Unknown_02: Birds of a feather flock together, don't they?

Unknown_00: Well, then you're just saying that I'm like Ralph, because I'm on your Project Tutu, motherfucker.

Unknown_02: Well, we'll see. I mean, the thing about Ralph, though, is that he's actually fucking driven out to L.A. to hang with Dick in the Barbie Dream Mansion. Yeah, he was going to Tutu before the coronavirus happened. Don't tell me that. Don't tell me that you were going to go to the Barbie Dream Mansion to hang out with Dax and get first-hand attention from the dog.

1:46:06
Unknown_00: Don't say that. you know he's fucking stroking his cat no i mean like uh now jenny josh you haven't been cleaning it up too good there's uh hula girl 86 all over the place

1:46:42
Unknown_02: It's going to be a time to get whacked, Josh. You're going to be sleeping with the fishes.

Unknown_00: Look, if someone wants to come from behind with the clothes wire and take me out, just do it.

Unknown_00: Just do it. You don't have to ask permission from Don Corleone.

Unknown_02: If you've been following that thread then,

Unknown_02: Cause I haven't really been following this shit about it being a cam girl, whatever, what the fuck it like, did they actually find evidence that his girlfriend was a cam whore? What the fuck?

Unknown_00: Um, so the thing with that is from what I've seen is that there is some sort of like very old image that is either her or a Photoshop image of her. And I think it's like attached to a cam profile or something. Um,

1:47:21
Unknown_00: uh but nobody nobody can find any like videos of it because supposedly the profile name is hula girl and there's a picture of her from when she went to a book signing with maddox and she does have a hula girl tattoo on uh her hip so theoretically if this was like an actual cam profile you should be able to find a video or a picture of her that has the same tattoo

Unknown_00: I see.

Unknown_02: Okay. Because I've been looking at it and I'm like, fuck, I'm pretty autistic. But like, even my autism right now isn't enough to grasp what's going on with this hula girl 86 shit, you know, but it seems as though there's something there that's real. And I think it is like, that's what's bothering dax is there's something there that's real but i think if he hadn't kept poking the kiwi farms and if he hadn't kept poking me and poking all this shit it would have probably fizzled out no it's a terrible idea to antagonize the site it never works for anyone i don't know why people think that like yeah obviously the site's not going to kill you but if you keep poking it eventually you know there's that that you might kill yourself there's a

1:48:43
Unknown_00: You know? You might tell yourself. There's a fake Sun Tzu quote that's like, if you wait by the river long enough, the bodies of your enemies will float by. That is the form. You wait by the river, and eventually, you'll catch something fishing.

Unknown_02: People are going to fucking float down. And this is why, like, I just don't understand. He, you know, as the don, as your boss, you know, like he should really be taking your advice in this specialized field seriously about how to clean it up. I'm right.

1:49:15
Unknown_02: Well, yeah, you're the head, Janny. I don't know, maybe his advice to just delete it all right away would have been the way to go. I don't know. If you just had deleted everything, doubled down and said, it's my site, fuck you, well, people probably still would have accepted it. You know, if you had just right away said, fuck this, you know, deleted it.

Unknown_00: That's what I didn't say. No, I didn't delete anything.

Unknown_02: Well, you could have. You probably could have got away with it, but now you're fucked. Now you can't just fucking, you know, delete it.

Unknown_01: Mm-hmm.

1:49:47
Unknown_02: Well, who knows? You might go full janitor. It's not the next step is to just sweep it all up. You got the big broom out.

Unknown_00: Well, I'm going to wait. I'm not going to make any rash decisions because when things get stressed like this, it's like I should probably take a step back and review where we're at in a couple of weeks when there's less emotions floating about. But just it's curious as to why you're stressed, though.

Unknown_02: You know, I'm stressed for a lot of reasons.

Unknown_00: Last month was really bad for me. This was a bad time for stuff to get for people to start agonizing.

Unknown_02: Yeah, well, I mean, you were telling me about fucking being trapped in Serbia and fucking trying to get back.

1:50:22
Unknown_00: Oh, yeah, no, my visa situation's real bad. There's personal issues. The only thing I don't have to worry about right now is money, oddly.

Unknown_02: And this is, I think, why people might think that you... Actually, no, I do have to worry about fucking money because the fucking banks are holding, like, all the T-shirt money.

Unknown_00: They're still holding that money, and they might hold it for, like, another, like, three and a half months.

Unknown_00: What the fuck? What's going on with that? Well, the t-shirt money, they took all the money and said, this looks fraudulent, so we're going to hold it. And we're legally allowed to hold it for 120 days. We might release it earlier, but we're allowed to hold it for 120 days. And there's nothing I can do about it. Oh, fuck. So all the t-shirt stuff, it's printed, it's going out to people, all on credit. All of it's on loans and stuff.

1:50:56
Unknown_00: So that's what's stressing me out more than fucking anything, is all that money.

Unknown_02: Yeah. Well, it's a tough position for you to be in.

Unknown_02: And I hope that you can find some other fucking alternative.

Unknown_02: Because again, I think that you do have a right to run your website. I don't think it breaks laws. I think it might be a bit fucking shady. I think some of the shit that's done on there may not be the most moral or ethical or wonderful thing to do. But you do have a right to run it. And I don't want to see places in the world that are unique and different die. I think we have too much conformity and too much

1:51:31
Unknown_02: sameness as it is without you know extinguishing the special places like kiwi farms where you can see exceptional individuals who do exceptional things um so i don't want to see you fucking out of business or fucking whatever i just i don't want to see the site and you and others be influenced by a payment processor that's run by a guy who's not just like a faceless corporate guy Or some fucking corporate entity. It's a flesh and blood person. With his own personal vendettas. Who's famous for losing his fucking temper. Even though it's a character. Yeah it is a character.

1:52:16
Unknown_00: I've never seen him get mad in person.

Unknown_02: I have.

Unknown_02: I think he really was mad that night.

Unknown_00: He needs to stop drinking. I don't know. You don't drink, do you? I mean, you do drink beer.

Unknown_02: I do, but, you know, like, the difference is, like, I know when to stop most of the time. Sometimes I don't know when to stop. Sometimes I show my asshole and sometimes this is why you need to get a handle liquor. It'll fuck you. You know, you gotta be careful. Like, you know, but for me, it's also a lot harder to get drunk. I'm a very big guy. Right. So it takes about nine beers before I feel good buzz. And then, you know, by 12, I'm feeling decently drunk, but I can drink a whole two for in a single fucking, you know, session, you know, sit there, kill a whole 26 of whiskey or vodka or whatever. Like, on the night I showed my asshole, I killed an entire 40-ounce bottle of rum, and then fucking...

1:53:26
Unknown_02: Yeah, and then smoke fucking a ton of weed.

Unknown_02: And, you know, I'm just fucking trying to do, like, the most entertaining show I possibly can. You know, I'm putting thumbtacks in my fucking head, bleeding everywhere. I'm just saying, like, I have a natural dislike of dependency.

Unknown_00: Because when someone becomes addicted to a substance, they lose a part of themselves that gets replaced by the substance.

Unknown_02: Well, this is what the Bible talks about with substance, is that you're to let no thing become past or over you. Any substance is lawful for the Christian to consume, but if you become dependent on it, and it can then control your life and influence your decisions, then it's unacceptable. I don't think there are very many Christians, although I do know some, say you can't use a lasso.

1:54:02
Unknown_02: Well, by that standard, you couldn't use mouthwash. Do you know what I mean?

Unknown_00: So I think that the line to be drawn in the sand is,

Unknown_02: The Bible does condemn severe drunkenness and reveling, and it condemns being addicted to the substance. And that's where I draw the line with substance. I think if you can use them for the benefit and purpose that they're intended for in the time and season when it's necessary, then go ahead. But if you can't, you need to kick them, or you're going to be... facing larger issues you know yeah well i mean that's that's sums up my criticisms of day it's like number one stop antagonizing the site because number for twofold you're encouraging more problems for yourself and number two you're encouraging more problems for me

1:54:45
Unknown_00: I think that drinking is a social thing and a thing for food. And if you drink alone, you're in trouble.

Unknown_00: And I guess number three, it's like if he ever expected anything from me besides just to keep hosting my site, then I don't know. He's never made that clear to me. Or he's never asked for anything. And I don't expect him to ask anything. Because what I think his investment was... was simply keeping the site up because it was a great source of information for the Maddox stuff. Any of the Maddox stuff he talks about comes from the site first. Yeah.

1:55:24
Unknown_02: Well, definitely when it serves his purposes, the site is great. It's wonderful. The users couldn't be more swell.

Unknown_00: As hypocritical as that is, that is the position everyone takes. Everyone has an idea of what the site is, and when they see something on the site that goes against that idea, they think something has changed, or they think that that particular area is wrong, or it lost its way, yada yada yada. I've heard it for fucking seven years.

1:56:06
Unknown_00: it's the you know people whatever you think the site is you're wrong you're just wrong it's it's it's something different uh there might be an area of the site that conforms that idea but it's always different i don't know like my assumption about the website that it was about absolute free speech and free speech reigning overall it's about i think basically what you've said is different I've tried to make it as free a place as possible, but at its heart, it's a comedy site. And it's supposed to be a place about talking about people and events on the internet and having fun doing it. And when people aren't having fun, when people are angry, when people are trying to ruin each other's lives because of fucking gay shitty vendettas, I have to look at it critically and go, how do I make this fun again? And if the answer is getting rid of something, then I'll have to get rid of it.

1:56:39
Unknown_02: See, because it seems to me like the fun of the site is ruining people's lives.

Unknown_00: You know? No. That's how people have fun, though, isn't it? No, I categorically reject that. And there was a big fight, not like a fight, but like a feud over the course of years between a certain contingent of the site and myself regarding if docs are obligatory for new threads. And I've always maintained that docs are not obligatory for a thread. You can make a thread about someone you don't know the real name of and who you don't know where they live if their content's funny, because that's what matters. If the thread is funny, that's all you need. So there's always been little schisms like that between the church. It's just like, I remember it being, you know... You said you don't use the site!

1:57:19
Unknown_02: No, not on your site, but just on the internet in general, like 10, let's say, even 15 years ago. Um... where the internet didn't seem to be a place where doxing was super common, where swatting wasn't like super common, where these things like weren't necessarily like a mainstream thing that happened. They might happen to like Jesse Slaughter or Chris Chan or fucking somebody like that, but it's not gonna happen to just the average fucking guy who turns on a webcam and expresses an opinion. Whereas now it seems like in the last, I would say five to eight years,

1:58:04
Unknown_02: that has become something that's now almost like a requirement in internet beefs and in drama and in gossip that, yeah, we need to do this shit to people.

Unknown_00: And I just don't like that.

Unknown_02: I mean, you can't control that. I can't. But it seems like there has been a shift in the culture that way.

Unknown_00: Yeah, it's a real gotcha.

Unknown_00: I think people take it too seriously. I love Zedd. I think that Zedd does great work. He's a very smart, clever, and shrewd person. um but his idea that a thread needs to have docs is is just wrong you don't need that information to be fun um i don't mind it getting posted i really don't care if it gets posted uh either way so yeah i agree because he had told me earlier right it's about ethics and

1:58:45
Unknown_02: cow milk, whatever, and I just, I'm trying to figure out what... It's about having fun.

Unknown_00: If you're not having fun, you're doing it wrong. It's always what it is.

1:59:17
Unknown_02: It's just, it's just a question of, like, where the actual, like, lines of sand are, and I know that you're just a flesh and blood person, but, you know...

Unknown_00: A long time ago, the forum used to have forum rules in big red at the top of the blog. And I used to outline the same kind of stuff, but I changed it to green and I made it forum guidelines instead. Because I didn't like the idea that the site was...

Unknown_00: strict. It's not legal. It's not like a piece of law that has to be interpreted by judges and stuff. It's what keeps the site fun. It doesn't matter. The guidelines, the rules don't mean shit. None of them mean shit. But when I put them out there, I say this is usually what keeps it fun. Mm-hmm.

1:59:57
Unknown_02: Yeah, because I'm just trying to figure out what the standard is. Because to me, the idea I had of the website didn't necessarily match with what I was seeing with the locking of threads and the deleting of posts. For me, if I was you, even if they're referencing Corey Barnhill, Liar and Pedophile, To me, it would mean more to maintain, as you said, the purity of form of the site in terms of its ideological commitment to free speech than to remove those posts. But you've chosen the alternative position, and that's why I felt like, well, what the fuck?

2:00:31
Unknown_00: Because, number one, advertising his content is anti-fun. And that's not like a personal perspective. His content is specifically about degrading anything that he touches into making it to promoting him. He will latch himself onto anything, inject himself into it, ruin it in the process, and try to build up his audience from the wreckage.

Unknown_00: So enabling him, it's not even just him. We had that issue with gamer when Jace Connors was around. We had that issue with the Christian extortionist. We got rid of them too. When people are doing things that fucks with my bread and butter, I will get rid of them.

2:01:06
Unknown_02: Well, no, I can see where you're coming from. It just seemed to me to be a contradiction. I was like, okay, well, the legend of Kiwi Farms is the free speech.

Unknown_00: Yeah, the perspective of what it is is always wrong. I will do whatever it takes to keep the site open and to keep it fun.

Unknown_02: I just think also when you say that nothing he does is fun, I'll tell you this. He did the stream about flamenco and his docs and all that. I thought it was kind of funny, even though I disagree with the actions he took in it. I still thought some of the stuff he was saying was funny. But then again, that's probably one of the only times I've ever listened to fucking Guy Streep.

2:01:40
Unknown_00: It doesn't matter because when I hear him talk and he's got that dry voice, I'm just thinking of the call where he says that he masturbated to a six-year-old girl being anally raped. And whenever funny, ha-ha, silly stuff is happening on the stream, it's just like, no, I'm not enabling this fucking creature to be on my... Yeah, and I've never actually heard, like, I know what he said, but I've never heard the audio of him saying it.

2:02:16
Unknown_02: Because it's not something I really even want to put myself through. It's not really my time to engage with him. But from day one that I've been in this community, people have warned me about Zoom and about Corey Barnhill. So I'm glad that people do know about him being a piece of shit before they associate with him. It just blows my mind when people like Dick, knowing what a piece of shit he is, knowing he's a pedophile. Being told he's a pedophile, decide to platform fucking the fucking guy and drag him into this shit. And then the thing of it is, is that now, oh, well, Zoom's going to be after PPP because I'm tangentially associated to this. So now I have to worry about plate gang fucking showing up and vandalizing my place or fucking hacking into my fucking ring doorbell or whatever the fuck, you know? And I just don't want to be dealing with that level of fucking horseshit. But when Dax and people like Ethan Ralph bring this fucking guy in, it starts to become like prison rules. It starts to become like anything goes. This is open warfare. And honestly, it's going to end with somebody getting fucking killed or being in prison or fucking being in jail. You know, like that's what's going to happen. And I don't want it to end that way. You know, it shouldn't be this way. People should be having fun on the Internet. It shouldn't be fucking, you know, going and calling out hits on fucking buddy's car or his house or parents. Do you see what I mean?

2:03:36
Unknown_00: It just fucking blows my mind. Yeah, I mean, that's the whole point. The problem is Dax is enabling this fucking behavior, and I think it's fucked. No, I disagree with that. He's not enabling Corey Barnhill, pedophile liar.

Unknown_02: Well, he is.

Unknown_00: He did that one time, and he definitely would not. Yeah, he won't do that again. I told him, you're not going to have anything to do with this guy, or I'm out.

Unknown_02: We'll see. I can almost promise you at some point in the few years down the line, Dick, if he's in a similar situation, might pull a similar trick, you know? And one thing that bothers me... I told him.

2:04:15
Unknown_00: Nothing to do with this guy. Because I'm gone. I'm not here to sit here and tell you who you can and can't be friends with. I mean, one thing that bothers me, too, is fucking...

Unknown_02: It seemed to me almost like maybe Dax brought him onto the show to Doc's dick, and he knew all along what was going to happen. To Doc's dick? Yeah, because Dick's docs was already out there. It wasn't any new info. It wasn't really damaging to him. But what it allows him to do then... They took it down, they edited out the docs, and then put it back up. Yeah, but people know. It gives them the plausible deniability. that, oh, we're not really associated with Zoom. When, for all we know, everybody's info that Dick has access to... I can't do this.

2:04:52
Unknown_00: I can't sit here and let you say that he's associated with Zoom. Because I'm telling you, I would be out overnight. I would not wait for Subscribestar. I would be gone.

Unknown_02: You know, I hope he doesn't. There's no real evidence to suggest outside of that appearance on the show that he associates with Zoom. I'm just saying, like, I honestly, with how kayfabe and how gay things keep getting... You know, Ralph and Andy and Dick have all admitted to orchestrating drama in the past for viewership and for clicks.

2:05:26
Unknown_02: and to hide shit and like Bibble and Rand said that their argument a couple months ago was fucking kayfabe and so it just becomes like well what's real what's fucking not and who's associated with who and like what the fuck is going on it's really bothersome to me you know it's just you feel almost like you're just being fucking insulted like your intelligence is being assaulted by these people as though they can just pull this fucking con job over your eyes

Unknown_00: Yeah, that's why I don't like gay ops when people try to use the site for that. No, I can't do that.

2:06:06
Unknown_02: Josh, we're probably nearing wrapping it up, but one thing, you used the term gay ops.

Unknown_02: When did that get invented? When did we start using the term gay ops?

Unknown_00: That was during the Kraut stuff. I don't like the term either, but, you know.

Unknown_02: Yeah, you know, like, it's, like, there has to be some better term for that. Because, like, some of it is trolling, you know, and anything that's a troll now is gay ops, or anything that's fucking you don't happen to like is gay ops. It's just when it's when people and their friends try to do contrived bullshit to to fuck with people when it's just like, I don't know.

2:06:48
Unknown_00: It's hard to sum up. It's just the last section I wanted to get into with you because we had this.

Unknown_02: Honestly, I think like our first interactions in like two years was over this shit. Was like the Ethan Ralph fight. Where I was supposed to fight fucking Ralph.

Unknown_02: And everything fucking fell through. Yes.

Unknown_02: Do you think that Ralph is actually going to fight Andy Worski in Knoxville?

Unknown_00: Oh, I don't know. I haven't heard anything about that.

Unknown_02: Because this is what he's announced, right? It's like the replacement fight. And it just seems to me like he never had any intention of fucking fighting me whatsoever. it just seems to me like this whole thing was just a deflection from like the new project to stuff. And that's why your involvement in it to me, like bothers me because it felt like you were inserting yourself in it to distract from new project to, and create this arc of the Ralph versus PPP fight. And that's also why I'm not aggressively pursuing it at this point in time, because I feel like it's some sort of gay op to distract me from the narrative of new project to, you know,

2:07:20
Unknown_00: I just wanted to see you guys fight because I thought it would be funny.

2:07:59
Unknown_02: I think it would be funny too. I'm willing to do it for free. I don't know what has to happen for it to happen, but the time of negotiation was poor anyway because with the lockdown in place, fuck all that's going to happen. for a long time and i just i wish it could happen and i wish that you hadn't been the fucking third man involved in it because you guys wouldn't talk to each other well let me let me refrain sorry um ralph refused to speak to you ralph refused to speak to you and he refused to have you on your on his stream or to go on your stream that i mean i think it's it's it was entirely ralph's fault that it didn't come together up until godwinson refused to escrow Well, and I honestly don't know what to think about Godwinson's 5,000 pounds. He told me he had it. He told me he was ready to send it, but he wouldn't send it to an escrow.

2:08:39
Unknown_00: I don't know if he just doesn't know what an escrow is or what. It's not like you're giving it to me. But I tried to explain that to him, and he started going ape shit and just posting weird shit at me. I was like, eh. I don't know.

Unknown_02: I don't know what the fuck was going on with the five grand. All I really know is that if Ethan Ralph can't even communicate with me in DMs, I'm not even asking to go onto the kill stream. It could have been a neutral platform. It could have been in direct messages. It could have been anything. But this idea of negotiating through a third party, Joshua Moon, and getting him this deeply involved in it, it's for fucking the birds. Fuck that.

2:09:14
Unknown_00: That's why I stopped. I sent you a message saying I can't continue to be the third realness. You guys have to talk to each other. It just didn't happen. He refused to.

Unknown_02: The guy is just worried that I'm going to fucking try and embarrass him or say shit about him. It's going to make him look stupid. Which I probably would if he was being a fucking asshole. But if he just wanted to talk business and iron out this shit, I'm more than willing to do that.

2:09:49
Unknown_00: And Ralph during his heyday would not have turned down that kind of a shit show. Ralph during the actual show. Even without Godwinson's money.

Unknown_02: Even without his $5,000. This is a huge potential money generating outlet for everyone. For everyone.

Unknown_02: And it's a huge source of entertainment for the fans.

Unknown_00: Yeah, you get people on and you talk. Because he's like a big wrestling fan. He's into that shit. That's what I'm saying.

Unknown_02: And I know that the promo is back and forth. We could do a press conference in LA at Dick's place. We could do a press conference in Knoxville. We could do it like Floyd and fucking Conor. And the press conferences would be so entertaining and so fun. But the fucking guy just, he doesn't have any interest in making it happen for the people who want to see it.

2:10:25
Unknown_00: How tall are you? Do you know how tall you are in Imperial?

Unknown_02: I'm about 6'3". I like to say 6'3". I'm 351 pounds as of last weigh-in.

Unknown_02: and so because of that like i just i personally have zero fear of the guy because he's like five foot i it says one on the police report uh i don't know if he's five foot one uh he might be five five he did a video way back when during gamergate after he got arrested or something and he he's like standing next to a ruler i think he's saying he's like five foot six five foot seven

2:11:15
Unknown_02: But it's nearly a foot difference in height. And it's about 100 pounds difference in weight. And neither of us are in shape. Neither of us are trained. So I just naturally think that he's fucked. Now, I wear glasses. So that's a disadvantage in terms of depth perception when it comes to the striking aspect of things.

Unknown_02: And my left knee had a repaired ACL in it. So there's right there. I'm letting him know like the two main weaknesses and what he can exploit. But I just don't have any fear of him because as soon as I get my hands on him, he's going to go to his back. You know, I'm going to put him down and, you know, I'm going to be on top of him. And then I'm not going to be getting off. You're not going to get me off. It's going to be like lifting the moon. It's not happening.

2:11:55
Unknown_02: And then I'm just going to keep punching you in the face. And I mean, if I get into a full mount on top of the guy, he's going to be fucked up. And the reality is I can probably pick him up and drop him on his fucking head if I want.

Unknown_00: Wait, people in chat didn't know that the corrections facility listed him as 5'1". I thought that was like the most famous thing about him.

Unknown_02: No, people, you know, but he says that they left off the zero and it was 5'10".

2:12:33
Unknown_00: I think that was a defense.

Unknown_02: But, I mean, he's not 5'10". Like, I've seen him in pictures with Michelle Malkin. He's barely taller than Michelle Malkin. So, that's where I go, well, what the fuck? But, like, the fucking thing would be entertaining just to see, like, two fucking beached whale walruses fucking flash.

Unknown_02: You know, the fucking flash just fucking back and forth.

Unknown_00: Yeah, it would be funny. That's why I was into it. I thought it was a funny idea.

Unknown_02: Nobody thinks it's going to be the greatest fight of all time.

Unknown_00: I disagree. For you it is.

2:13:06
Unknown_02: It's no Ali Frazier or Tyson Holyfield or Mayweather McGregor. But the personality is in it. What really fighting is for people is

Unknown_02: If you know the personalities and you're invested in the personalities, you'll enjoy the fight. And that's the aspect of pro wrestling that a lot of times real fighting like UFC and boxing misses out on. But when you have a truly transcendent star that draws big money, like Conor McGregor, he gets that emotional reaction out of you. And you identify with him as a good guy or a bad guy. You want to see him lose or win. And that's when you make money. And with me and Ralph, people want to see that. There's a built-in audience for it. It would make money, regardless of whether I stake $5,000 or not.

2:13:41
Unknown_02: I just don't see why you want to miss out on that business opportunity. It's honestly because he's worried that if I start getting on the microphone and yelling at him and saying he's a pill popper and a piece of shit, he'll lose fans. But the reality is, I think his fans like him because he is a total piece of shit. So no matter what I say, it's not going to affect anybody except people who might be new listeners. And I guess that's what he's worried about is he won't be able to grow his show.

2:14:13
Unknown_02: But it doesn't make sense to me. It doesn't make sense to me why it can't happen.

Unknown_02: And the idea of replacing... A fight can definitely... I mean, as much as she's given fucking Zoom, he did show up in a fight.

Unknown_00: And even though he lost, it's like, whatever. If you guys agreed to a fight and you have a fight, good on you. Who cares? It can be done. It can very easily be done, is what I'm saying. Anyways, it's been over two hours. Do you have any final sentiments? No.

2:14:50
Unknown_02: No, I just think that I hope that things have been cleared up a little bit. People have understood your answers to the new Project 2 stuff. I hope people are satisfied that I pushed you enough, did enough follow-up answers that there doesn't need to be any further back and forth on this issue in the future.

Unknown_02: And I hope that you found it to be at least somewhat profitable conversation.

Unknown_02: is pretty much where I end up on.

Unknown_00: Yeah, I mean, my response is that I'm beholding to no one except, I guess, the law. And I guess the banks, as we all are.

2:15:23
Unknown_00: If Dick has never asked me for anything, he knows I'd probably turn him down. I've turned down people who asked for favors in the past.

Unknown_00: The only thing...

Unknown_00: I just agree that he should consider how he responds and how that reflects on his properties because he isn't doing himself a favor by arguing on Twitter.

Unknown_02: No. No, I agree.

Unknown_00: And I think he should stop tweeting until the quarantine is over. I think that would be a good rule of thumb.

2:15:57
Unknown_02: No doubt. All right. Well, it was good being on the show with you.

Unknown_00: It's not really a show. It's just called A Conversation with PPP. That's it.

Unknown_02: Oh, okay. I didn't know if you branded it mad at the internet. I haven't looked at the chat.

Unknown_00: The background is just whatever. It's just what's there. Okay.

Unknown_02: All right.

Unknown_00: Well, I mean, thanks for talking to me. I wish we had talked weeks ago.

Unknown_02: Well, no, just things were fucking really chaotic at that time. So it didn't work out. But, you know, I'd love to talk to you in the future. It seems like our conversations, the two that we've had, have been somewhat reasonable. And I hope you don't think I've been acting as a bad faith actor in this because I've been trying my best.

2:16:31
Unknown_00: Well, I mean, some of the stuff you say is just, like, I do think you disregard, like, things you know when you say it. And I wish you would stop. Because it's frustrating. Because I really do. I liked you when you did your stuff way back when. So it's frustrating for me on a personal level to say, like, you know better.

Unknown_02: Yeah, let me just say one thing, right? What you got to remember is it's similar to the Kiwi Farms. Everybody loves it until it's about And then it's no longer acceptable.

2:17:06
Unknown_00: I don't think my pattern of, I don't know.

Unknown_02: I don't think my pattern of behavior has really changed from when I first started to now. Um, and I, I just think that, you know, some of the tactics I use are obviously trolling and I think people should be able to determine for themselves what's real and what's fake. I'm not, I'm not, I'm not your fucking daddy. You know, I'm not the person who has to tell you, okay, this is wrestling. This is a shoot. This is real. It's not figured out for yourself because if a magician reveals all the tricks, then you don't want to see the magician. Do you know what I mean?

2:17:42
Unknown_00: Yeah. And that's a fair, fair response.

Unknown_02: But that's all. That's all I got.

Unknown_00: All right.

Unknown_01: Well, thank you very much.

Unknown_02: See you.

Unknown_01: Bye.